Thyroid tests are normal?? Are you sure?

[nonstickpam107]

Originally Posted by BluCrystal

<<<<<the PVC's/rapid heart rate is sometimes BECAUSE doctors only give T4 >>>>> <<<<<rapid heart rate, a high TSH and PVC's signals the onset of menopause>>>>

Actually, I've had the PVC's/Rapid heart rate for a very long time. I started having the PVC's in my early twenties. They were caused because I took Dexatrim to help me lose weight then. The rapid heart rate, I think was around the same time.

<<<<post what your Free T4 and Free T3 levels are >>>>

My last TSH, 2-3 weeks ago was 2.35. (My original was a 7.49 at the end of July.) I would love to get the FT3, FT4 and Antibodies tests done, but I can't because my stupid insurance company (United Heathcare) dropped my doctor. They're actually still in negotations, but at the moment, we no longer have a GP. They are the company my husband's job (Delta Airlines/Technology) makes us take. I'm wondering if I could just go to an Endo on my own, without a referral, and get these done. The only problem is, I'm not sure I trust the one that is nearby me. A friend from work (who has Thyroid cancer) wanted this doctor to sign a form for Medical Leave of Absence so she could take off work, and he said Americans are lazy. There are doctors in Cincinnati, but I can't drive the expressways.

Maybe the best thing is just to wait until after I have the hysterectomy and then get myself a endo. Or have my OB/GYN refer me to one.

Most of us had PVC/rapid heartrate in our TEENS who have Hashi's...it's not limited to hyPERthyroidism.

You don't NEED an insurance to get the tests done... Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests most docs/labs charge 350 dollars for the thyroid panel II but this will only cost you about 88 dollars doing it this way. You also don't want to go to 'just any ol' endo'.....endo's are good at diabetes...about two out of every 50 endo's do good thyroid treatment...the rest wouldn't do anything more than TSH EITHER, so don't think you need an endo. Look for a DO (doc of osteopathy, plenty in YOUR area), join the state group at Yahoo group for thyroid support groups, ask who's getting Armour in your area, and look at Armour Thyroid Official Site their doc finder uses zipcodes to find a good thyroid doc. MOST of us travel up to two hours ONE WAY for a great thyroid doc....and it's worth it.

Pam

[Wolfpax24]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Either your Mom and sister have have their thyroid ablated (stopped with RAI) OR they aren't 'overactive'...because people who take thyroid hormone have UNDERactive thyroids. People with hyPERthyroidism take anti-thyroid, not Synthroid.

Sounds like they went through a 'hyper swing' known to occur in Hashimoto's...and if THEY have it, you stand about a 99% chance of having it. A TPO antibodies test will show it, and a FT4, FT3 will show where your thyroid hormone levels are.

Pam

duh me- I meant underactive thyroid- yes, I need to get checked- maybe I will just aski the doc tomorrow for a full hormonal panel, would that include all thyroid tests?

[nonstickpam107]

Well, my doc does the following as a 'full panel' for hormones.

TSH, FT4, FT3, TT3, TT4, estradiol, estriol, estrone, progesterone, free testosterone (many docs just do the 'male' testosterone test...which doesn't really work well for we females), testosterone, and TPO antibodies if you are female and 'suspect' for Hashimoto's. It's quite expensive, thank goodness for our good insurance we have. I know you can get TSH, FT4, FT3, TPO, estradiol, progesterone at Online Lab Tests: blood work, blood testing and laboratory tests for about 1/3 the price they charge my insurance at the docs. Some docs think a 'full thyroid panel' is a TSH and T3 Uptake (T3 Uptake is quite the 'useless' test nowadays in light of Free T4, Free T3 and is REALLY a test for binding T4...any doc/nurse who says 'We checked your T3' and only did a T3 Uptake...um...run...walk away quickly!).

Pam

[Abbott]

I'm confused on what is happening when you take calcium too close to the thyroid meds.

When you take it within the 4 hours does it mess up the effectiveness of the thyroid meds or does it reduce the calcium that you are taking?

Also when you are taking a slow release T3 doesn't that mean that you have that coming into your system 24 hours a day?

Is there any calcium that can be taken sooner than 3-4 hours of the thyroid meds? ....such as liquid calcium, pill, soft gel capsule (non prescription)???

I am taking Nature Thyroid as well as T3 (twice a day) as prescribed by my Naturopath and my Primary Doctor is asking me to take 1,600mg of calcium each day. Of course I might add that my Primary Doctor feels that my TSH is too low and that indicates that I am losing calcium in my bones. The Primary Doctor also goes by TSH and T4 and will not do a FT3. I get my blood tests for thyroid from the Naturopath who wants a FT3 test done.

[nonstickpam107]

Calcium tends to bind the incoming hormone in the bloodstream and a whole LOT faster than other 'binders/goitrogens' (iron is also quick to bind the incoming thyroid). I also have to take large amounts of calcitonin (I had my parathyroids removed due to tumors) so I take my Armour sublingually.

But....I don't worry too much about the binding effect...because I have a doctor who will 'adjust' my incoming thyroid hormone if it's being bound. It's more important to take your thyroid hormone the same WAY...and be consistent so that your doc can adjust.

OM goodness...a doctor who actually believes that loss of calcium occurs with low TSH...haven't heard of one in the last 15 years since that has been disproved. Except in those who have hyperthyroidism and have gone undetected or treated. Old wives tale!

Pam

[JuliaL]

Hey Pam - would you take a look at my lab numbers and tell me what you think? I've gained 10 lbs. in the last few months, but I don't really have any of the other symptoms of hypothyroid. My cholesterol has gone up too (my trigs went from 32 to 73!) even though I have not changed my eating or exercise one bit. I'm talking to my compounding pharmacist later today, but wanted to get your take:

TSH 2.54 Range (2.81-4.0)
FT4 - 1.1 Range (0.8-1.8)
FT3 - 266 Range (230-420)

I'm really at the end of my rope! I got on the scale this morning and I've gained another 3 lbs. since last week! I'm so upset I'm considering going off of BHRT and just dealing with the hot flashes, etc. Could the HRT be causing the weight gain? None of my clothes fit, and I'm so upset I could cry What do you think?

[nonstickpam107]

Your TSH is way too high (most normal women are a 1 or close to it, and if mine were that high, I'd be bloating up and miserable!...and anything over/close to a 3 is now considered hypothyroid.

T3 is the 'energy' part of the thyroid hormone...and should be at LEAST halfway of it's range (see yours?? Barely even IN range). Better get an appointment with the doc and see if something can be done about this...and the bloating/gaining, miserableness are all hypothyroid symptoms. Did you have a TPO antibodies done?

Pam

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Your TSH is way too high (most normal women are a 1 or close to it, and if mine were that high, I'd be bloating up and miserable!...and anything over/close to a 3 is now considered hypothyroid.

After researching for what seemed like forever, I FINALLY found a doctor (2 hrs. away) that is willing to not only run all of the tests that you suggest we really need, but he listens/looks at your symptoms (which I have most of) instead of only the numbers. He prescribes based on ALL of the info that he gets, not just the numbers! He also will prescribe Armour. I am going next Wednesday. I went to my doc's office and picked up a copy of my old bloodwork this morning, and my "relatively normal" TSH number was 2.91. Of course, now I have more symptoms since that test was done last year! Hopefully, I can get myself back to better health very soon!

Thank you, Pam, for tirelessly being an advocate for those of us who know that we have a thyroid problem yet continue to have "normal" test results. You have helped to lead so many of us in the right direction. I can never thank you enough. If I had not read and paid attention to what you've posted over and over for us, I'd still be in the dark about my condition.

[JuliaL]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Your TSH is way too high (most normal women are a 1 or close to it, and if mine were that high, I'd be bloating up and miserable!...and anything over/close to a 3 is now considered hypothyroid.

T3 is the 'energy' part of the thyroid hormone...and should be at LEAST halfway of it's range (see yours?? Barely even IN range). Better get an appointment with the doc and see if something can be done about this...and the bloating/gaining, miserableness are all hypothyroid symptoms. Did you have a TPO antibodies done?

Pam

Thanks Pam - I assume I should see an endo, right? I didn't get TPO antibodies

[JuliaL]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Your TSH is way too high (most normal women are a 1 or close to it, and if mine were that high, I'd be bloating up and miserable!...and anything over/close to a 3 is now considered hypothyroid.

T3 is the 'energy' part of the thyroid hormone...and should be at LEAST halfway of it's range (see yours?? Barely even IN range). Better get an appointment with the doc and see if something can be done about this...and the bloating/gaining, miserableness are all hypothyroid symptoms. Did you have a TPO antibodies done?

Pam

Pam - I spoke to the compounding pharmacist and she said my T3 was only a little low, and that I could probably help it with some diet changes. She suggested iodine and selenium and said she would send me some more information. She thought my TSH was "fine". So should I still try to get an appt. with an endo do you think?

[Carolina Rose]

Originally Posted by fuelmanswife

After researching for what seemed like forever, I FINALLY found a doctor (2 hrs. away) that is willing to not only run all of the tests that you suggest we really need, but he listens/looks at your symptoms (which I have most of) instead of only the numbers.

Beth ~ if you don't mind me asking, where is this doctor located? You're in Georgia? Any chance he's two hours in the direction of South Carolina?

Good luck next Wednesday!

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by Carolina Rose

Beth ~ if you don't mind me asking, where is this doctor located? You're in Georgia? Any chance he's two hours in the direction of South Carolina?

Good luck next Wednesday!

Thank you! I am both nervous and excited about my appointment.

I am, indeed, in Georgia. The highly recommended doctor that I found is Dr. David Kunz in Lawrenceville. That is northest of Atlanta and definitely on the way to SC. I had heard that he wasn't taking new patients, but I got right in. I'll definitely post what I think of my visit.

[nonstickpam107]

Beth I'm happy you are being helped....hopefully this doctor you are seeing will run the 'necessary' tests...like FT4, FT3, let me know how it goes!!

Julia...please...we've heard "oh, that's fine and normal' a million times. Endo's do great diabetes....so you don't necessarily want an endo. You need to be seeing a doctor who Rx's Armour or a combo synthetic approach and who 'gets' what 'normal' is. FT3 should be HALFWAY of it's range to be normal. Check Armour Thyroid Official Site check the top docs list at Thyroid Disease - Hypothyroidism - Hyperthyroidism - Cancer - Autoimmune Disease join your states (and any states close to you) thyroid support groups at Yahoo.

Yep, for 14 years I was 'oh that's normal'...right up till it all fell apart. There's so many who have this same story!

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

Julia...and I couldn't stress MORE that adding iodine does NOT bring up T3 and adding selenium only helps (in about one case out of every 100) antibodies...so you need an TPO antibodies test. Jeez....the iodine thing....almost ALL cases of female hypothyroidism is from autoimmune cause (Hashimoto's) ...the last known case of iodine deficient thyroid disease was in the 50's....and iodine could hurt more than help a case of autoimmune hypothyroidism!

If changing your diet cured autoimmune disease...well...think about it.

Pam

[Beth1121]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

Beth I'm happy you are being helped....hopefully this doctor you are seeing will run the 'necessary' tests...like FT4, FT3, let me know how it goes!!

Julia...please...we've heard "oh, that's fine and normal' a million times. Endo's do great diabetes....so you don't necessarily want an endo. You need to be seeing a doctor who Rx's Armour or a combo synthetic approach and who 'gets' what 'normal' is. FT3 should be HALFWAY of it's range to be normal. Check Armour Thyroid Official Site check the top docs list at Thyroid Disease - Hypothyroidism - Hyperthyroidism - Cancer - Autoimmune Disease join your states (and any states close to you) thyroid support groups at Yahoo.

Yep, for 14 years I was 'oh that's normal'...right up till it all fell apart. There's so many who have this same story!

Pam

Thanks, Pam! I will most definitely post how my visit goes!

Julia - I highly recommend checking the sites Pam pointed you toward. The way I found the doc that I am about to see is through the sites listed above. I got a list of docs that were within a reasonable driving distance from the Armour site and the top doc site. I then registered for my state's Yahoo group and ran a search on each of the docs I had chosen. After I narrowed it down further, I researched three "finalists" pretty extensively before chosing the one I am going to see next week. Good luck!

[Carolina Rose]

Pam ~ On Friday, I had the thyroid panel II test done from HealthcheckUSA. I got the results this morning. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning and will be bringing these results with me. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at them, I would appreciate it. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my doctor is just a GP and knows next to nothing about thyroid. He put me on 100 mcg of Synthroid on September 28.

Latest results:
TSH - 1.74 (0.350 - 5.500 range)

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum - 2.6 (2.3 - 4.2 range)

T4,Free(Direct) - 1.27 (0.61 - 1.76 range)


My results from September 28 (didn't have the F3 done then):
TSH - 6.262 (.350 - 5.50 range)

Free T4 - 0.96 (0.61 - 1.76 range)

Based on my symptoms, I really believe that I need T3 (and preferably an Armour prescription), but based on these results, I doubt that this doctor will see that need.

I'm waiting on the doctors list from Broda Barnes and once I get that, I will change doctors, most definitely.

[nonstickpam107]

Then you see the NON conversion yourself. Yeah..I don't think I'd 'waste' an appointment with a doctor who can't see the same thing you (as a patient) are seeing. But you already said he has 'no experience with thyroid'.

But..on the bright side...the ENERGY you will feel with addition of T3. Hey..why don't you ask the GP if he'll give you 25mg. Cytomel a day (synthetic T3) (then I'd cut that 25mg. pill in thirds, take 1/3 am, 1/3 early afternoon, whatever little bit is left around 5 or 6pm). Some docs are very savvy about Rx'ing Cytomel and write a Rx. for 10mg...then have the patient take one in am, one early afternoon, and then HALF of one around 5 or 6pm. You'll still take the T4 too (but you might have to drop it a little once the T3/Cytomel starts doing it's job).

Pam

[AllieCat0817]

Pam, I just LOVE YOU for helping us thyroid peeps. You have been continually helping me for MONTHS now. I am close to getting my dosage of Cytomel and Levothyroxine straight I think.

THANK YOU for your dedication!

[Resting]

Pam, I'd really appreciate your comments on my situation. I have read all 52 pages of this thread and have found it to be very informative. My history to date: I am a 44 yo mother of 5. My last child was born at 33 weeks in Sept. 2000. Following that I had two miscarriages in 10/01 and 02/02. I never resumed menstruating after the last miscarriage and began having hot flashes and other menopausal symptoms. Had a problem with bad foot pain for a few months as well. Ob/gyn assumed was due to nursing and miscarriages and the my body needed to get regulated.

Blood tests 02/04: FSH 15.0 (postmeno 23.0-116.3); TSH 5.372 (0.350-5.5); Prolactin 2.0 (postmeno 1.8-20.3); T4 10.2 (4.5-12.0); T3 uptake 29% (24-39); Free Thyroxine 3.0 (1.2-4.9)

Blood test 08/04: FSH 12.4

Blood test 08/05: FSH 8.0

At some point in there the Ob/gyn tried progesterone to see if I would have a withdrawal bleed, which I did not. Did have with combination BC, however.

Have continued over the years to have these symptoms: hot flashes, no libido, vag. dryness, fatigue, anxiety/panic, palpitations, lightheadedness, dry eyes, muscle soreness and weakness, hair loss off and on, always seemed to gain weigth in my face, etc. Ob/gyn said not meno but nothing to worry about. I did get a transvaginal ultrasound (2005), abdominal CT (2004), colonoscopy (2004), liver biopsy (2004), head & neck CT (2004 to check pituitary), endoscopy (2004), head & neck MRI (2005), cariac worlup including cath (2006), and an endometrial biopsy (2007). Only thing determined from those tests was that I had anxiety and GERD.

Blood tests 05/2007: CBC all in normal ranges; Cholesterol 202 (100-199); Triglycerides 62 (0-149); HDL 61 (40-59); LDL 129 (0-99); LH 19.4 (postmeno 15.9-54); FSH 15.6 (post meno 23-116); TSH 2.73 (0.35-5.50)

Saliva testing 06/2007: Cortisol a.m. 23 (13-24); noon 3 (5-10); afternoon 2 (3-8); and midnight 2 (1-4); Cortisol burden 30 (23-42); DHEA 3 (3-10); Estradiol 10 (post meno 1-4); Progesterone 92 (postmeno 5-95); Free testosterone 15 (8-20); TSH 43 (26-85); FT4 0.36 (0.17-0.42); FT3 0.47 (0.28-1.10); TPO ab Negative.

Blood tests 09/21/2007 at 8:00 a.m.: DHEA-S 114 (25-220); DHEA unconjugated 412 (130-980); Cortisol 18.8 (2.9-19.4); Estradiol 54 (postmeno < or = 10); FSH 22.35 (pm 3.0-151); LH 23 (pm 15-62); Progesterone 0.5 (pm 0.1-0.2); Prolactin 15.9 (1.2-30.0); Testosterone total 7 (2-45); Testosterone Free 0.7 (0.1-6.4); % Free Testosteron 0.99% (0.50-2.00); TSH 3.47 (0.35-5.00); T3 Free 2.7 (1.7-3.7); T4 Free 1.2 (0.7-1.5); Anti-Thyroglobulin Ab 369 (<20); Thyroglobulin 2.7 (2.0-35.0).

I was told by a nurse practioner who viewed these results that I was not in menopause (though numbers were rising) and that she felt could be related to thyroid.

Ultrasound done after those tests: Heterogenous echogenicity seen in entire gland. Solid nodule 1.6x.8x.7 in left lobe. Both lobes very close in size. Impression was multinodular cystic goiter.

Saw endo almost two weeks ago. Said Hashimoto's, thyroid lumpy, believed nodule to be remaining "good" part of gland, thyroid twice normal size. Put on 50 mcg Synthroid basically to help prevent further growth. Indicated that symptoms not likely thyroid related and should see a reproductive dr. regarding lack of menstruation. He tested FSH 3.27; T4 14.8 (high end of range was 12.0), and TPO Ab 22 (high end of range 35). These were BEFORE synthroid. Have only been taking meds 4 days now.

Even though I have read through this thread, I am still not sure what to think. Do I not have Hashimoto's since my TPO Ab were not out of range. Are my symptoms not Thyroid related. I honestly am in despair about the whole matter and do not know how to get better. Gastro doc said he is redoing the endoscopy (it was time), but didn't want me on meds right now as he believes GERD related to thyroid. I think that my estrogen and testosterone are too low for me to feel well?

Thanks for any help or advice that you can give me.

Cindy

[nonstickpam107]

Cindy, a few 'points'.

First of all, yes, many of your symptoms are due to being hypothyroid...I don't know where you are, but you need to find a doc that does Armour Thyroid OR a combo of both synthetic T4 AND Cytomel (synthetic T3) once you are SETTLED on the Synthroid (will be up to a year, don't get antsy, lol).

Next, the very REASON your thyroid did a dive and dump is very familiar...happens to a lot of us...I went post meno at age 41, had history of miscarriages, stillborns, etc. When a woman goes towards menopause, her progesterone level drops FIRST, not the estrogen. The thyroid does a funny little thing then..it tries to 'make up for' the job of progesterone, creating a deficit in the thyroid's ability to produce hormone (goes belly up!).

Then, the estrogen starts to really drop...so...the first thing my thyrodiologist did was to give me bioidentical progesterone (and I certainly would NOT want anything BUT compounded bioidenticaly progesterone transdermally...cream you rub on). I used it at night, it gave me good rest (no pun intended) and my thyroid started to calm down and accept the incoming hormone.

Little by little, my doc gave me bio identical compounded estradiol also (you can get generic patches nowadays, most insurance pays for this...I paid out of pocket to get compounded progesterone cream though, it was worth the 30 bucks a month!).

And then I went from synthetic T4 to Armour thyroid about a year after I started it, at about 75mcg. dosage....it wasn't bringing up my FT3.

Anyway, it's a year or better slow process, so please try not to get discouraged Cindy...and do try to find good compounding pharmacy and a doc who will give you Armour Thyroid down the road.

Pam

[Resting]

Pam, I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate your advice! A couple more questions, if you don't mind.

1. With the Anti-thyroglobulin ab being high, but not the TPO ab, would you say Hashi's or not?

2. Is it alright to take the Synthroid when the test before I started indicated high Total T4? I know that the FT4 & FT3 seemed ok the month before, but what are the repercussions of too much T4?

3. I will see about the progesterone cream and then adding in Estrogen. Can't do the patch because it will cause my skin to erupt. What's the next best option on the Estrogen?

4. What about the low Testosterone? My husband wouldn't mind if I had a libido again. I'm assuming that the two might be related. I have Elizabeth Vliet's book Screaming to be Heard and she indicates the level should be higher to feel good..

5. I have been so concerned about the possibility of it being a Pit tumor (which I know you have said is fairly treatable), does that look like a possibility?

I am in Florida and from reading this thread I see that there aren't really a lot of good options here. I'm sure that the nurse practitioner would be happy to work with me on the sex hormone end. But, the endo seems to be very "old school". A really nice man and he did spend over an hour with me explaining lots of things. I am convinced that at least some of my symptoms are thyroid related, even though he indicated not.

Losing your mom from such a treatable illness (had it been properly diagnosed) must be so devastating to you even to this day. I can't imagine. That along with everything else you have been through is just overwhelming. It is so good of you to be willing to share your knowledge to help make the road easier for others. Thank you so much.

Cindy

[nonstickpam107]

Cindy, hormones aren't like 'other' Rx's. You don't just 'dive in' and they don't work wonders 'overnight'. It's a 'process'...(I don't want you to get discouraged...as an example, I was hypothyroid for over 14 years UNtreated, and then was lucky enough to find one of the best doctors who was well versed in both bio identical hormones (he is a pioneer of male testosterone usage in the US) and thyroid hormones.

It took me over four YEARS to get 'settled' with being replaced...both thyroid and other hormones.

You have Hashi's. You need to see another panel six to eight weeks AFTER you've been taking this T4 synthetic. If you get: heart palps, sweating inappropriately, etc. you need to call them (since your T4 was up). You may stay on that dosage for a LONG time, until your thyroid starts slowing it's own production of T4. They did a 'block and replace' on me. They gave me progesterone cream (not the over the counter stuff!!) compounded by a compounding pharmacist at night to 'calm' me. And 25mcg. Levoxyl. For about six months. Some days I was a little 'hyper', some days I wasn't. They also did an RAI uptake and the little bit of radiation they gave helped slow my own thyroid (NOT an ablation, just the test).

About eight months after I started the Levoxyl and went up to 50mcg. he replaced my estradiol with bio identical biest (both estradiol, and estriol). It was oral (I was post meno at 41 and every other doctor had said I 'couldn't be'. Alrighty then, sigh).

It would probably help you to read the book 'The Thyroid Solution' by Dr. Ridha Arem. If you want to learn more right now (and this site is someone I know from years back, her road to thyroid freedom has been Hell) than Stop The Thyroid Madness » Index Page is great. It'll give you a 'leg up' on why you'd rather have Armour Thyroid.

Pam

[Resting]

Pam,

I will order that book today! I already have a lot of anxiety which results in heart palps, so I guess I'll just have to be really on the alert to a change in that regard. I know that it won't be a quick fix, but it helps to know if you're even on the right road. I have visited the STTM site often, that's what prompted me to get the saliva testing. Lots of good info there.

I hope you have a great day!

Cindy