Considering Bioidentical Hormone Therapy

[Buffy45]

I finally popped in here to read this very interesting thread. DG, this was exactly where I was at about 10 years ago. I had tried to go without hormone replacement as cancer runs in my family but when I decided I would rather die using them as to live without them (symptoms were horrible) I searched for and found a doctor who sounds a lot like yours. We did a lot of the same type of tests/treatments you and your dr. are doing and it was amazing how much better I felt and quickly. She was wonderful, spent at least 45 min to an hour with me each time I went and answered any and all of my questions. She was also considered a quack by others and was even in court regarding her medical license because the insurance company went after her for prescribing high amounts of thyroid. She had a heart condition and the stress of all this was horrible, the last time I saw her we sat and talked about it and how it was affecting her life. She suddenly died the following Sat. at 56 years of age and I really think the stress of that lawsuit just was too much for her. After that happened I did see another dr. in her practice but at that time I was 60 so I gradually weaned myself off of her BHR therapy and now I see an endo about my thyroid, who of course does not like armour. After she passed away I took copies of my blood tests to my local GP to ask him if he could test for the same things and keep me on BHT and he threw my tests on a table and said he didn't even know what some of those things were, he was disgusted b/c she had me on a low dose of cortisone for adrenal support and he said that was so wrong. I never saw him again. Anyway, in short, I am just happy to hear you found someone like you did and are having good results. I am battling high blood pressure and diabetes now, wish she was still around so that we could see what she could do for all of that. Best of luck to you on your journey!

[Doggygirl]

Buffy, thank you so much for your words of encouragement and endorsement for this treatment path which really is considered "out there" by so many, it seems. My doc has described having pretty serious arguments with the other docs of some of her patients who see her for the hormone stuff, but other docs for other things.

I'm very sorry to hear about your diagnosis of High BP and Diabetes. I hope you can keep both under good control. Diabetes can be a very formidable and ugly disease. It runs in my family a bit, and I'm scared.

Best wishes to you Buffy and thank you so much for posting.

DG

[nonstickpam107]

Buffy, I see you are in Texas. At the Texas Thyroid Support Group at Yahoo the mod lives in Texas and has a doctor who does Armour/Westhroid/Naturethroid in 'optimal' amounts along with BHRT (and he does them in transdermal oils I believe) and tests about the same. You might want to join just to see what's 'up' in your area/State.

Pam

[Doggygirl]

My next appointment is Friday for a "hormone review." I will have been on Armour for 6 weeks at that point, and the progesterone and estrogen compounds for 5 weeks.

What would you normally expect at a follow up in that time frame for these things? Just want to make sure doc is doing everything we should be at this stage - and if there is something you guys suggest that she doesn't...I can be prepared and ask the questions.

Also, for the Armour my doc goes by symptoms as well as blood tests to determine optimal levels. (i.e., she's OK with a very low TSH if the person feels good at that level)

So now I'm trying to figure out what symptoms I should really be considering in my assessment of how good I feel LOL!! Frankly I have battled weight, some depression, sleep issues, etc. for a long enough time that I'm not 100% sure what "feeling good" will feel like!! And I realize that my symptoms have been SO minor compared to what others and Pam especially have been through. I'm lucky....

I'm sleeping MUCH better (that is probably the progesterone??)
No more night sweats
Feel well rested in the AM
I am able to lose weight (finally!) at about 1 - 2 pounds per week avg. - am working very hard at it (avg. 1500 cals per day, carbs under 50, workout 6X per week at 350-500 estimated calories burned per workout)
Am less groggy in the afternoon since starting to take .25 grain Armour in the early afternoon.
No more itchy oval spots on my ankles

So overall everything seems to be much improved.

My body temperature is still low. I'm not sure how much store to put into that fact. I'm taking my temp 3X per day (starting at least 3 hours after wake up). The "average" of the "average of 3 temps per day" for the last 12 days is 97.4 with a high of 98.0 and a low of 96.5. Please let me know if this suggests that my thyroid is still low...or suggests nothing.

My current Armour dose is .75 grain in the AM and .25 grain in the early afternoon.

Any input, things I should consider before my appointment, questions I should make sure to ask, etc. will be very welcome!! Many thanks in advance,

DG

[nonstickpam107]

I feel your temp is just signaling that you ARE, indeed, hypothyroid. And that's that, lol.

Any 'cons'? You've only listed the good effects. If there aren't any bad effects, I would say that some tests will be taken, etc. And my temp overall tends to be around 97.1. That's the high point right there. It can go up, and it does go down but that's all. And I feel well medicated. Individual thing there. I'd wait for the FT's and see.

Pam

[Doggygirl]

Pam, thanks so much as always for your input. That's what I figured about the temperature - it just confirms what we already know!

There really aren't any cons I can think of...YEAH!! All of my symptoms related to the hormone stuff have either stayed the same or improved - nothing has gotten worse or no new negatives have cropped up that I can think of. I am SO glad you helped educate me and helped get this ball rolling!! I'm less *****y too - did I mention that part? Now if my sex drive would come back, Mr. Doggy would be completely thrilled with these results......

DG

[la*lah]

Wow, what a wonderful thread

I'm on Armour, and have been for the last year. My doc recently upped my dosage by half a grain..

She wants me to consider a progesterone cream..but my interest is in BHRT, which she disputes...

All of which has me feeling torn, because I want to feel my absolute best.

I've taken all the supplements one can, tweaked my diet, lost some weight, so naturally I'm more than ready to feel vibrant once again.

I'm in Seattle, if anyone has a referral to an excellent dr. or naturopathis dr..

TIA

[nonstickpam107]

la lah, look (google) for: Anti aging doctors in Seattle and also look in the area.

Pam

[la*lah]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

la lah, look (google) for: Anti aging doctors in Seattle and also look in the area.

Pam

thanks, Pam

[Doggygirl]

Hi la la! Like you, I'm so glad I found this information - feeling more like my old "normal" self is wonderful.

Just as a point of reference on the Progesterone cream, Doc has me on 100mg PER DAY. (75mg in the evening, 25mg in the AM) Much more potent than it would appear that off the shelf cream that popped up in the add link (which probably isn't the brand your doc recommended but still...)

I'm curious why someone would acknowledge a person's need for more progesterone, but wouldn't want to test and compound a BHRT in the quantity indicated by testing and other symptoms?????

Another idea for finding a doc would be to contact compounding pharmacies in your area and see if they will give you a referral to a doc who prescribes through them. This is the pharmacy my doc uses and they have a physician locator feature on the web site. I'm in IL, and this place is in Wisconsin but who knows - even they might have a referral. (Allie - if you read this, did you ever get an answer one way or the other from them on your "test??")

Best wishes!

DG

[nonstickpam107]

Ah, but that's what I and other advocates have been 'fighting' about for YEARS. Dr. Lee (bless his heart, he really broke BHRT wide open, have to give him credit for that) decided that OTC prog. would be fine...and that it was estradiol that was 'dominant'...never realizing the reason it WAS dominant was cuz it was just underbalanced by the falling progesterone.

MOST GYNS, curiously enough, don't want to test, they just want to play 'all women are from the same cookie cutter'. I find that quite odd. While endocrinologist's and anti aging docs are actually doing the 'science' behind it. GYNS don't seem to be concerned with anything beyond TSH for thyroid either ('most'..there are a couple who 'get it').

That's supposed to be 'down home, feel secure with us' care...but it's missing the mark now. They'd get my 'trust' if they did the tests, not if they pooh pooh them and decide that this or that dosage or hormone is for 'everyone'. But if you're faced with an area where NO doctor except this one or that one will Rx. BHRT..well, you have to get educated yourself, and be proactive.

Pam

[la*lah]

Originally Posted by Doggygirl

Hi la la! Like you, I'm so glad I found this information - feeling more like my old "normal" self is wonderful.

Just as a point of reference on the Progesterone cream, Doc has me on 100mg PER DAY. (75mg in the evening, 25mg in the AM) Much more potent than it would appear that off the shelf cream that popped up in the add link (which probably isn't the brand your doc recommended but still...)

I'm curious why someone would acknowledge a person's need for more progesterone, but wouldn't want to test and compound a BHRT in the quantity indicated by testing and other symptoms?????

Another idea for finding a doc would be to contact compounding pharmacies in your area and see if they will give you a referral to a doc who prescribes through them. This is the pharmacy my doc uses and they have a physician locator feature on the web site. I'm in IL, and this place is in Wisconsin but who knows - even they might have a referral. (Allie - if you read this, did you ever get an answer one way or the other from them on your "test??")

Best wishes!

DG

Heres the deal with my history with progest cream. I ordered and absorbed every word of Dr. Lee's advice, some years ago....all of which lead to be try the cream. I had excellent results for about 6 months, then I began to gain weigh, experienced skin & mood issues...

Of course, I stopped using it immediately...

That was 12 years ago...

My current doctor reassures me I will not have the same issues with the brand she prescribes, which is progonol, I believe...

I'm feelin wired enough to try just about anything, at present...

I have put out feelers, as well as looked up anti-aging docs.. perhaps, something will unfold very soon...

Until then, I'll be checking in this thread, soaking up you lovely ladies success stories...

[nonstickpam107]

I'd rather have micronized progesterone cream made up by a compounder than progonol. Sorry. Progonol is about the same, but weaker. It's just a different 'brand' name. The OTC is kept quite weak by the FDA (anything sold OTC doesn't have a 'therapeutic' level of anything in it).

Pam

[AllieCat0817]

My compounding pharmacy gave me micronized prog cream, 100mg/ml dose, 30 days worth (30 ml) for $18. They said they dont accept insurance for compounded stuff cuz insurance usually doesn't cover it. But for $18 for 30 days worth, that will last me 2 months since I only use it 14 days a month. I got it in a syringe with lines on the syringe indicating what 1 ml is, and there are 30 ml there. WOOHOO!

[Doggygirl]

Allie, if you read this - you look so HAWT in your bikini avatar. My goal is to look like you.

Anyway, today was an awesome meeting with the doc. LOL it DOES feel more like a meeting than a "doctor appointment" as she has questions for me, and I have questions for her. I could stay in her office all day talking with her if I could only afford it. (although I was in her office 40 extra minutes beyond our scheduled time, and she only charged me for 10!!!)

Here is a long summary (oxymoron anyone?? ) of the things we covered in case there is interest. Of course I welcome any feedback an/or "challenges" - that will help me develop my questions for my next appointment.

Thyroid: Based on symptoms everything is sounding good where we are. She drew blood for another TSH / FT3 / FT4 look. That might indicate needed adjustments, or it might just tell us where we are so if we like this place, we'll know what we are shooting for if things go out of whack in the future. (I'm on Armour at .75 grain in the AM and .25 grain in the early afternoon).

This is hard to describe, but as we titrated up from 1/2 grain to start, I somehow felt like I needed more. Right now, I don't feel like I need more. Isn't that weird??? I don't even really know what I'm "feeling" for.

Anyway, they will fax my results to me next week and they will let me know (or I can let them know) if I want an appointment to discuss it. (I like the fact that there is not another "automatic" appointment I have to pay for just to see the results - especially if we don't need to meet)

I asked her opinion about taking Armour sublingually. She has no problem with it, so long as you don't get a "rush" feeling (i.e. sweats or rapid heart beat, etc.) from it entering your blood stream so fast.

I gave her a copy of the Molly Shomon (sp) article about her conversation with a rep from Armour about availability of Armour. She scripted me 90 days worth so I can have a supply in case Armour runs short at Sam's before the production issues (according to what Armour told Molly) with the higher grain doses are resolved. (sounded like some BS to me, and I think to Molly, but whatever...I guess the rumors persist about Armour availability...I'm glad I'm covered for awhile!)

Estrogen, Progesterone, Testosterone: I will be moving to an oil based form which will save me money, now that we have the dose where we like it - at least for another 2 months. So many of my symptoms are improved - but the sex drive is still pretty non-existent. (I can't get excited over a Johnny Depp fantasy...um...that's my standard and something is WRONG!! ) So...she will be adding bit of testosterone.

Progesterone will stay the same - in the cream - as the dose is so different AM v. PM. I'm cool with that.

Our next scheduled follow up is October 3 at which time we will be doing another saliva test to see officially where we are on Esterogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, and cortisol.

Supplements: We actually spent quite a bit of time on this topic. In my previous visits, we've touched on some supplements in a bit of a scattershot way - one at a time. She is a big believer in the health benefits of several things - some not specifically related to thyroid. Her top picks are:

Probiotics - I've been taking and will continue to take the physician grade that she sells. I've not seen a hint of anything looking like a yeast issue in a couple of months, and I've battled that off and on.

D3 - she's big on this. She talks about significant (recent) research showing major benefits in things like fighting / preventing cancer. I've been taking the one she sells.

Omega Oils - I take the one she sells.

B-Vitamins - she highly recommends and sells one.

COQ10 - she is a BIG fan based on recent research. But there are two types out there (I'll have to look up the exact words later so I can provide that) but one type that is commonly available in the health food stores is "barely better than a placebo" (her words not mine) and the other type is the effective one - major benefits to the heart and also aiding cellular level absorption of nutrients, THYROID MEDICATION, etc.

On Selenium, she had a caution to make sure not to exceed 200 mcg per day - so if you take a multi, check to see what selenium it contains before taking additional selenium.

She also switched me to a better quality Cal/Mag.

***before anyone comes back saying this woman is shistering in the supplement business, I will tell you that she is selling what SHE TAKES PERSONALLY, where she believes the grade available to her as a physician is noticeably higher in quality than what is typically sold at Walgreens, GNC, etc. I will be happy to provide the brand names and other details if anyone is interested in exactly what she's got me on.

Well, that's about it for today!! Now I'm off to color my hair so I can be as glam glam as our Alliecat!!!!!!! WHEEE!!!!!! (oh...Mr. Eville Scale was good to me today too, enhancing my mood!)

DG

[nonstickpam107]

All supps should be 'personalized' treatments. We're all different. Not enough Armour has more to do with sex drive than testosterone in my personal opinion, after talking to over 12,000 women in the 32-54 age group.

Overall, it's a good starting plan. You're getting a pm.

Pam

[Doggygirl]

Originally Posted by nonstickpam107

All supps should be 'personalized' treatments. We're all different. Not enough Armour has more to do with sex drive than testosterone in my personal opinion, after talking to over 12,000 women in the 32-54 age group.

Overall, it's a good starting plan. You're getting a pm.

Pam

Thanks as always Pam. I will be interested in the upcoming test results and of course will post them here.

DG

[Doggygirl]

Here are the updated Thyroid numbers from blood drawn at the 6 weeks on Armour mark. Current dose is .75 Grain in the AM, and .25 Grain in the early PM. For comparison sake, I will also include my original numbers from 6 weeks earlier in this one post.

ORIGINAL (5/30/08):

TSH: 3.74 (.4 - 4.5)
FT4: 1.1 (.8 - 1.8)
FT3: 235 (230 - 420)

NOW (8/1/08) Sample was drawn 5.5 hours after AM Armour dose:

TSH: .44 (.4 - 4.5)
FT4: 1.0 (.8 - 1.8)
FT3: 342 (230 - 420)

Oh - also TPO is <10 (<35 IU/ml)

I would love feedback!

Thanks,
DG

[nonstickpam107]

Looks like the Armour is doing it's 'job' for now. I would wait another six weeks for testing (and four hours after taking first split) and see where ya are then. You don't have Hashi's...so far (yes, that can 'change'. My DD didn't see any rise in TPO the first three times tested, then all of a sudden it was over 500...we were hoping she didn't have it).

Pam

[Doggygirl]

Pam, thanks as always for your input. The doc's note on the faxed results indicated she is happy with where we are for now too. My next appointment is October 3. Hoping for smooth sailing until then!

Went shopping in my closet last night, and was able to button and zip a couple pairs of jeans that I haven't been able to wear in a long, long time. That felt pretty good. I know I sound like a broken record, but getting these hormones fixed so I can FEEL good AND see the results of my diet and exercise efforts is DA BOMB!!!!!

DG

[nonstickpam107]

Here's hoping things just get better and better for you!

Pam

[Doggygirl]

Hello! For my own "record" if nothing else, I figured it was high time for an update.

I'm still feeling good and sleeping good! I went through a couple week phase in late August where I started retaining water like like crazy. Doc cut back the progesterone a little bit, but also ordered up a Cortisol test based on the water retention and a couple other things. Based on my circumstances - where I was at with perimenopause and personal preference, I chose NOT to "cycle" my progesterone and estrogen. (no more periods, supposedly) But...the end result of the water retention, then cut back in progesterone was a period. That's the second one I've had since going on bio-identicals.

The first one may have been sort of like a "final flush" of the system - doc said it's not uncommon to have at least one more period after going on bio-identicals - even under the "no cycle" program. I'm guessing that this second one may have been related to the change we made in progesterone, although I will find out more at my upcoming appointment. We might have to talk about cycling for now. If anyone has experience with this, please comment!!

I continue to exercise at Curves usually 6X per week - 5 at minimum. I recently added some extra (fl)ab work at home. I am following a low(er) carb diet - typically around 50 - 60G carbs (total - no net) per day with the carbs primarily coming from fruit and veggies. That in addition to fixing the low thyroid problem and the hormone imbalances seems to be working!!

I am so thankful for the support I've gotten here from everyone, and of course especially Nonstickpam. Reading here is what led me to start looking at thyroid and the other hormones - and it has sure changed my life for the better!! You guys totally rock.

It's high time I got more engaged in other areas of the forum - that's a goal of mine for this rainy Sunday. I want to read up and maybe join a challenge or something. And tonight I'm making low carb pizza NancyElle style!

We shall see what "tweaks" come out of my next doc appointment. Hope everyone is having a good September.

DG

[nonstickpam107]

Well, what a wonderful success story (so far, so good). I, too, had those last few 'TOM'S' when starting a BHRT program. But it's a good thing...cuz you at least know the endometrium is shedding lining and that's what you need to be down to 'no buildup of lining'..keep endometrial cancer away. So, maybe look at that as a blessing.

Hope things are going well..I'm making my "italian ranch wings" tonight...it's in the recipes here under 'Italan wings' I do believe...great things... we are officially 'on vacation' (and waiting for the fella to come put the new door in, and build my little porch, then DH and I will side that side of the house, and then move onto the bedroom, which I'm remodeling and leaving the built-ins dressers all along one wall, but switching up veneer and new fronts

Pam

[Doggygirl]

Pam, your remodeling projects sounds awesome! Well - awesome when they are done anyway! (the work and disruption is a price to pay, that's for sure!)

I'm going to look up your italian ranch wings.

DG