Totally Rogue: experimenting with hcg cycled with JUDDD
 

Two years ago I lost 52 pounds following Dr. Simeon's diet protocol with hcg. Maintained this weight loss for about a year with eating healthy and only having flour products and rarely sugar one day per week.

When I decided to lose "the last 10 pounds", I tried doing the VLCD again and just could not get past a few days--started to get lightheaded, overwhelmingly fatigued, etc. I tried 3 times and gave up. Then I found JUDDD and thought, what a great way to lose these last 10.

Many on the JUDDD forum were successful with adding flour products back into their program, and foolishly I thought maybe I could, too. Adding these things back in on a daily basis really set off my cravings, and my "Up" days started to look more like hcg Loading Days! :stars: And so I gained over 10 pounds. So disappointing because I thought I was past all that.

I know most of the weight loss occurs during the first week or so of the hcg protocol, and I've heard of rogue cycling whereby you eat VLCD for a week to 10 days, then low carb for a while, then right back to VLCD for 7 to 10 days, etc.

So I was thinking about doing perhaps 10 days of VLCD with hCG, then hopefully maintaining with JUDDD--alternating 500 calorie days with higher calorie days--but of course, not as high as my Up days were! And again, limited flour products to one of the Up days per week until I see some steady weight loss with JUDDD or feel up to returning to the VLCD.

JUDDD seemed to be working, but the weight loss was coming off so slowly (totally spoiled by hcg!). So I'm here to see if I can get the rest of this weight off in a rogue way (just can't do the regular VLCD diet anymore) and then move back to maintenance.

Most likely, on average, the weight loss will ultimately be the same if I were to just stick with JUDDD over the long run, but I just need to see the scale moving more quickly, at least for now.

Oooh, how interesting. I will follow your progress. Partly to cheer you on :jumpjoy::jumpjoy: and partly to see if it works. I would love to see it work so I can try it too. I cannot stand to do P2 any more, have gotten so depleted on it as of late. But am sooo loving JUDDD too. Best of both worlds, huh??!! I too, need to lose the last 10 lbs. They came off with hcg but staying off, ugh that is the hard part :annoyed: Keep us posted :up:

Hi, Dawn! Those darn last 10! Yes, it's tough to keep them off. I maintained at 130, which is 10 more than I wanted to be at, and I'm mad at myself that I managed to get to 140.

I loaded Friday and Saturday and started VLCD on Sunday. Today is D#6 and I'm finding "rogue" (not following the protocol food choices) easier, but tonight is pizza night at my house and it's just so tempting! I just cannot look at another piece of broiled chicken ever again!

I loaded to 145 (how easily those pounds went on!), and today I'm 140.4. Less weight lost than I'm used to, but my last round of hCG the weight did not come off as fast as all my prior rounds. (Previously I lost 10 pounds in the first 7 days!)

I planned 10 days before hitting an Up day with JUDDD, but I'm not sure I'm going to make it 4 more days. Depending upon how I feel tomorrow, I may eat more than 500 calories (still avoiding flour/sugar).

Tell me about it. I cannot look at chicken the same way again. I am beginning to *hate* chicken LOL. It is sooo hard now. And with the Super Bowl on Sunday, we are not big football fans let alone party people I know I will want to eat with my family. I am on hold til after my mom visits next weekend (still iffy if she will show up, she cancelled last minute last time) and my aunt's birthday. Then I will decide what I want to do. I am on my last rope as to what to do, so I might be on your heels if this works for you! I have to update my stats because I am not at 126 any more. I am larger, but haven't weighed so don't even know the #.

I'm the same; HCG kills my appetite and gets the weight off like nothing I know. I can maintain it until the 8 week mark and then something happens and those last 10 pounds just pile on practically overnight. Even Jack Kruse said something to that effect that dairy should be avoided for 6 months after the HCG. Perhaps that's my problem.

I have a script ready for HCG but just can't bear the diet anymore - I hate chicken breast with a passion now. So I am going to try JUDDD using MCT oil only for the DD's and see how that goes. In the meantime I will will watching your progress with interest. Please update your results. Thanks

mojo--that is very interesting about the dairy. I have never HAD to give it up, as I love my cream and cheese, but it seems to make sense. It is the first thing I add back in once P3 hits. Actually don't even give up my cream in coffee ON p2. I should, but it is the only thing that gets me through the day without killing someone. I was wondering how doing just coconut oil on those DDs for JUDDD would be. I know that the Fife's do a cleanse with just coconut oil--or do they call it a fast? Anyhow, let us know how you do mojo.

If I get it together and decide to do something this week to lose I will let you know too. I might resort to a fat fast (using said coconut oil) to lose a few pounds. Have to fit back into my work uniform after not having to work for a week! Not sure if strict low carb will work to get those pounds off.

Hey ladies reading your thread and wishing you luck & keeping tabs. I am on P3 myself day 15. Yesterday I had an all day meeting at work and was surrounded by tons of junk food. But my kind boss remembered I don't eat that stuff & bought a container of full fat greek yogurt (Cabot 10%) so I had that for breakfast & lunch. Then when I got home I was like let's just see what happens if I have it for dinner & do an impromptu correction day. I was 1 lb over ldw. & I had never done a CD in P3 without the need. Well today I went down 3 lbs to 126.2 (my ldw is 128.2). SOOO since I can be a little rogue at heart I thought hmmm "can I stick this loss ?" so today not hungry & I didn't push it. So today & tomorrow eating to hunger but strickly protein/no carb to try and lock in that loss and "maybe" get to 125. Then Mon ease into P3 eating again but not go straight to what I was eating before 1700 -1800 calories.

I thought why not see what happens. I am happy at my ldw but seeing that scale go down today without being on P2 made me think maybe it would be possible. If not & I figure I have wiggle room in P3 and that never hurts right ?

I think sometimes we have to do things that work for us. I had been a mostly protocol girl on hcg but I realize now I never waited the alloted time between rounds and this round I cut it short and have been stabilizing nicely. So I think P3 is more about eating the foods that work for us & avoid those that cause us to gain & doing everything in moderation as well as avoiding at all costs sugar & starches. Just my experience & thought I'd share :o

I'll keep you posted if my mini experiment worked. I should know by next week when I ease back into P3 eating if I could stick the loss or not. Good luck on your experiment too.

pandora, I'm so happy for you. You are doing so well! You seem to lose better than me so I'm watching your posts for inspiration. You have gotten your weight down pretty low. May I ask your height?

Thanks.. I'm 5'4..so for me in the mid 120's is thin and definitely goal weight. Now just focusing on maintaining !

That's how I felt, too. My hormones were all screwy over the summer and I had such cravings. I knew I was gaining weight and didn't weigh myself. I had to buy size 12P pants (I had considered these were going to be my "fat pants" because I was wearing 10P and had hoped to get into 8P). When the 12P started to feel tight I was desperate and knew I had to do something drastic. Nothing gets the weight off faster than hCG, so although I know JUDDD works (and I don't know why I couldn't do it correctly), I decided to jump start the weight loss with hCG.

It's sad to see that 2 years ago I was on my 3rd round of hCG starting at the same weight! Yikes, it's so discouraging to be losing the same weight over and over again. When other women posted a similar situation I thought, "that will never happen to me! I'll always be careful!" But those dang hormones. Hopefully, that is under control now I can get this done.

Oh, I felt the same way! JUDDD works great and I could see myself easily doing it, but couldn't get my head into it correctly (I think it's because of the wacky hormones). I was losing a pound a week (not bad, considering I couldn't lose weight at all before then on my own), and then my Up days became Up, Up and Away Days.

I just can't look at chicken anymore. So I'm using my rice protein powder that has greens in it, plus blending organic spinach or kale or celery; having that twice a day and then having a meat/veggie or just veggie meal as my main meal at dinner. And I use olive oil when needed and just calculate in the calorie count. And I'm taking my fish oil capsules daily and using all my creams which do contain nutritive oils.

So far this has worked for me--today I am 138.2 (down 6.8 pounds from last week.) When I first started hCG 2 1/2 years ago I lost 10 pounds in the first week, then in the later rounds only 7 or 8, so I'm pretty close to prior experiences.

I'm wondering now whether to continue doing hCG or move onto JUDDD.

When I started doing hCG I was strictly protocol and it IRKED me that other people would mess with the good Dr. Simeons' protocol!:) But after seeing complete lack of stability after my third round despite doing everything right, and then seeing how quickly I could gain weight, I think I'm starting to understand that it really is the very low calorie diet doing the work, and that if I stay away from the common allergens (dairy/wheat/corn/soy/egg/citrus/tomato, as well as grains) that I might have more success.
Although I am not avoiding almond--using unsweetened almond milk in my green smoothies.

I have been treating the past week also as an elimination dietary trial (eliminate common allergens for 4 days then reintroduce one at a time each day, and do it at every meal), and it has been eye-opening! I know now that dairy is one of the reasons I keep regaining weight. That one will have to be limited to an "only when I'm eating out" scenario, or once a week.

Dawn, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE heavy cream in my coffee and do not want to live without it, but in my trial elimination diet (really doing this because I have had hip pain for the past few years and I'm trying to figure out if it is due to grains or dairy) and after 4 days with no dairy I allowed for the calories of 2 Tbsp of heavy cream in my coffee and within a few minutes my stomach was grumbling and I had to run to the bathroom!

Now dairy causes constipation for me always (Clue #2) and I was very colicky as an infant and had to be on a special formula (Clue #1), so I really shouldn't be surprised. The opioid effect literally makes you "addicted" to it.

There is an old joke that if a food is causing your problems, the doctor asks you to write down your 5 favorite foods, and then says, "These are the foods you need to take out of your diet"! I'm trying to use the solid fat that's on top of coconut milk in the can, and that's going okay, so I'm hoping I can continue without my beloved heavy cream.

How incredibly thoughtful of your boss! And yes, I agree, ultimately we all find what works for us. Hopefully, I am getting closer to that.

I'm 5'4", too! But a huge pear. You would not believe the saddlebags on my thighs. My saddlebags have saddlebags. I am always reading about women my height and weight wearing size 4 or 6 pants. I don't think I'll ever achieve smaller than size 8. After my last round, at the end of the VLCD, I was 123 pounds and wore comfortably size 8P.

That was another sticking point for me about following Dr. Simeons' protocol: I was very, very disappointed to find I did not experience the re-shaping he talks about in his monograph. That. along with the fact that there were times I did everything right and could not stabilize, aided my transition into (gasp) rogue territory, where I never, ever, ever thought I'd go.

Keeping you guys updated. Woke up to a -.08 loss to 125.2. Surprisingly my stomach is feeling great. Just eating what I am craving relaxing about food. I realized that the last 2 weeks I was so super focused on maintaining and keeping my fat/carb percentages that I was stressing out. Today I wasn't hungry for breakfast so I did not force myself to eat. I had coffee with hwc and ran out the door. Lunch was on the run & I had a cup of my favorite (Greek yogurt). Now doing things around the house & dinner might be a steak or some more GY.

I guess I am trying to find that balance I had in past P2's with food. The eating to hunger scale. The test will be next week if I can stick this loss. So far -2.8 under ldw. So a happy camper all around & most importantly that I found what works for me. I never thought I could get to this weight without another round. I was convinced I was doomed to stabilize at the top of my ldw or above & I am finding that not to be the case.

Happy Superbowl Sunday !! Here's to smart healthy choices today :shake:

Great news! I can only hope to get to that weight or thereabouts and be stable.

Saturday should have been D#7 of VLCD but I probably went over the 500 calorie limit, then Sunday functioned as an Up Day and I have started JUDDD this week, being much more careful with my Up days (i.e., not treating them like loading days!)

I weighed 138.2 on Sunday with a total weight lost of 6.8 pounds with the first week of hCG. Now that I'm back with JUDDD I will only weigh once a week and only after a Down Day.

I had a DD yesterday so I weighed this morning to get an idea of where I am at, and I weighed 138.6. I'll be doing JUDDD until 2/19 (because of plans we've made, I can't cycle back into hCG before then). Then on 2/19 I will restart hCG for 7 to 10 days and see how much further I can get.

I am in so much of a better place than I was a couple of months ago, when I could not do more than a few days of VLCD with hCG.

Now that I know weight loss is possible not following the protocol so strictly, (and I am such a rigid person that this is a big adjustment for me), I feel I can do hCG again successfully.

Please note I am not advocating this for anyone else--I just need to be in contact with other people. I find when I post here I stick to a dieting plan much better than when I am trying to do it on my own.

*question* so when did you quit dosing? I sure hope this works for you! Looks promising if you did an UD right after quitting dosing and then came right back down with one DD.

I stopped the hCG the night before I had my Up Day. I'm starting to wonder if hCG really makes a difference--in the past, I would have continued eating VLCD for 48 hours after stopping the hCG, following Dr. Simeons' protocol (and this is what Dr. Belluscio recommends as well).

I don't want to take a chance doing any length of low calorie dieting without hCG, but it does make me wonder if it functions as some kind of placebo effect.

I'm also seeing that after all this time, I mentally/emotionally/physically cannot do more than 7 to 10 days of the VLCD anymore. If I can use JUDDD to maintain during the "breaks", or even lose some on JUDDD before I can do a 7 to 10 day stint of hCG, that would be great.

I'm also curious to see how much I lose during my next "short round" of hcg, since I don't plan on loading before it--I always gain 2 to 3 pounds during the "load", so that the 7 pounds I lost last week were really only 4 to 5 pounds (although I am happy with that, too). So I'm curious to see if I can actually lose 4 to 5 pounds in a week of hcg without doing a load first.

The key for me, is to avoid sugar/flour on my Up days. Once they enter the picture, I can't control myself. I really wish I had done JUDDD this way from the beginning, but it took a long time before I could accept that I just could not eat the same way some of the others on JUDDD were eating.

I hope to see at most 138.6 when I weigh myself again after a down day next week. If not, then I'm still not doing even JUDDD right.

Popping out of lurkdom...

Garnet - On the coffee creamer, there is a fabulous creamer made with coconut cream and an egg, if neither of those give you problems. Nichole T posted it a while back. If you DO have issues with eggs but not butter or ghee, I highly recommend bulletproof coffee. If you use a milk frother and whip the bejeezus out of the butter mixed with a little coffee, it creates a frothy topping that IMHO can replace cream anytime. Now if only we could have butter on P2... ;)

shelby--I didn't think the cream that she made from coconut milk had any egg. I just bumped up the thread the other day. Or at least I looked at it LOL. Hmmm....I saw that she just refrigerated the coconut milk can and beat the heck out of it to get it whippy. Wonder why it would need an egg?

Yeah, I bumped it a few days ago. No egg in the cream recipe.

dawn, are you off the hCG now? I think I remember you saying that you couldn't deal with it anymore, so you went off, but then came back on shortly after. Did you finish your round?

Garnet-how's it going? I'm reading w. interest!! I too have regained 10lbs. I'm not mentally ready for more strict dieting. I tried JUDDD recently. Did 2 clean weeks of it, w/ very hard 500cal DDs, and gained 3 lbs! :annoyed: I did a few weeks of it last year, w. the same result. :confused: Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't work for me. It's really hard to be starving, even if it's only EOD. So many have had success with it and I hope you do too! They say to give it 2 full weeks and see where you are. You can do it! :up:

Nope. Back off. Still wasn't sticking with it so hopped off once again. My mom is visiting this weekend (hasn't cancelled on me yet) and we have some "things" coming up. So I am holding off for now. I am thinking about hopping back on after Valentine's day. See how I am doing. My plan for now is to JUDDD til at least then, see how THAT is going and maybe go back to P2 if I am up for it. But for now, JUDDD. I know I have to have a daily tracker for what WOE I am following :hyst::hyst: I keep ping-ponging back and forth. But P2 is hard, after doing it for as long as I have, P2 is boring, restrictive, hard and I resent having to keep on doing it :stars: :doh: Like I posted in another thread, I need to stop beating myself up over my failures and just give myself a break once in a while.

The original one that she had linked DID have egg (or so I thought). I just googled "coconut milk coffee creamer recipe" and the one I'm thinking of is in linked the article on the second recipe that comes up under non-dairy paleo friendly. I've tried the ones with no egg and they don't work for me but that one is delish! I'm going to link here as this site doesn't sell anything (mods, please delete if not appropriate!)...

Thank you!!! I have not yet tried that creamer, but will soon!!! Have to finish what I have in the fridge first. When you say, didn't work for me--do you mean not whip? Or not taste good? I want it to work for me.

Morning ! I promised I would update you guys on my little experiment as well.

Well so far so good :
2/1 129.2 GY only
2/2 126.2 -3.0 protein only 1k calories
2/3 125.4 -0.08 protein only 1k calories
2/4 125.2 -0.2 protein & some berries/lettuce only 1300 calories
2/5 126.4 +1.2 added back more veggies, cal 1500
2/6 126.4 STS 1600 regular eating as last week (before experiment)
2/7 125.8 -.06

Seems like I am between 125-126 for the last 5 days & have slowly built up my calories. So good luck garnet10 ! Sometimes being a little or a lot rogue works out after all.

This is so weird--I thought I replied yesterday but it's not here...

Thanks for posting this! I can't do egg (causes stomach aches for me), but I have tried skimming the coconut fat from the top of the coconut milk cans and that's been okay. Unfortunately, nothing takes like heavy cream except heavy cream. I don't want to live without it, but I'm hoping that, for now at least, if I avoid foods I react to, that I'll have a better chance at weight loss.

I'm sorry you experienced the weight gain with JUDDD--I don't know why that happened? I know that for me, I cannot add in flour products on the Up Days. That causes cravings for me and then I can't stick to the calorie limit.

I can do the 500 calorie days knowing it's only one day, but I struggle on the Up days, trying to keep myself from eating things I won't be able to have the next day.

I plan on doing another 7 or so days of hcg starting 2/19 (after the long weekend). I'm really curious to see if there will be a drop of 4 or 5 pounds (since I won't technically be "loading" before hand, so there won't be that false bump up of 2 or 3 pounds).

I'm looking forward to my next "short round" of hcg--I'm curious to see what happens.

Didn't work for me in that they didn't taste anything like creamer. Lol I love me my cream! ;)

How about butter? I lovelovelove bulletproof coffee! You can google it but I can tell you the real trick is to get a milk frother, add about 3T coffee to your melted unsalted butter, and whip it to death before topping with more coffee. I have that and ONLY that for breakfast almost every day. It keeps me not hungry until about noon or 1pm!

I'm looking forward to watching your next round! ;) Keep us posted!

Hi everyone. I just finished 25 days of vlcd on HCG. Im down 15 lbs. Looking at my options-to do P3 or JUDDD, JUDDD makes more sense to me. I did it for a week or so before HCG and was easy. Im thinking of doing P3 protocol with JUDDD. Id like to lose more, so if I did, Id be happy, although this is a maintenance time.
I plan to go back on to HCG after 6 weeks as I have 30lbs more Id like to lose.

Thanks. You know I love my cream too ;)