From Starvation Mode to Ph 2
 

Hi all!

In my horror, I discovered that my previous suspicions a few weeks back of having the wrong type of drops (hormone-free and NON-homeopathic) were worng and this was confirmed by a friendly poster and the fact that after 8 days of losing poundage fast, the scale comes to a screeching halt. Which I read yesterday is normal for starvation mode. "day 10 or so the body stops burning fat) Voila!

Continuing on with the drops (they're great appetite suppresants) I continued the VLCD until I knew how to transition from "starvation mode" to being on track in PH 2. I don't want to do the loading days!!! But do I HAVE to for the REAL hormones to work?

I worked VERY hard during this past 9 days, eating less than 500 calories and not having the benefit of my fat stores fueling me. So I really don't want to lose that!!!

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

Blessings,
Shelle

If it were me, I would just continue on and not worry about the load days. Just pick up where you are and go from there. No need to backtrack or gain back any weight. The loading days are for the hcg to get into your system and start the fat burning, but you don't necessarily have to do them. There are those that do not load for their rounds. They understand they may be hungry for a day or so, but it passes and they are prepared for that. Good luck to you!!!! And many of us wish we could have that great of an appetite suppression LOL. I would love to not feel like eating. I mean, it would make the P2 so much easier. I think we also know of some who have done the hormone free drops with success, so no worries. Just keep on keeping on. Your scale coming to a halt could be just a minor stall---we all experience that. It happens on the other type of hcg as well. So no biggie there either.

Thanks Dawn,

The lack of responses on the other thread caused me to feel as if I had offended. :) No intentions of doing that. I am really torn between what to do. This is great success!!! No doubt! But the food protocol is not necessary with THESE drops. That is my take.

SO I am thinking that to stay with these drops I will have to up my calories. Therefore I would not officially be doing HCG and I get that. I will prob still have great weightloss results though. And be able to workout which I love! On the other hand, it will not be the "fat storage areas first". Would that be your take?

If I just simply switch over to the hormone, wont I bypass the stage where the hormone "Finds" the fat storage areas during the loading time, thus being very important?



Oh, what to do!!!

Yes, it is a good problem but also scary. I am a binger and this tight protocol REALLY worked for me even if I didn't have the added advantange of burning my fat stores for energy! THough I def lost pounds and inches!!! A whole size I went down in 8 days!!!

Oh, and is it at all possible that I could take these drops AND the hormone drops? I know we are allowed a multi-vitamin and from what I gather, this is vitamin water!

Thanks for your help!
Shelle

Shelle---I was thinking of finding those drops myself to use while on plan. I could certainly use some appetite control. I have binge issues bad and would really love to find a solution. I don't see why not. Try it and see.

We are hard to scare away here. You will get our opinions and then some....even if you didn't ask LOL. But we do admit that we are human, are a bit radical when following plan or rogue and then move on. It is OK to have differences---just make sure that you take feelings into account when posting. That is a bit difficult to do, and I have been accused of doing that myself. But we get past it.

You asked what to do and I gave you a "what I would do scenario". I would take the drops I have now, while waiting for the "real" ones to come in, then just start taking the new ones. Not loading, not starting over. I see that as a waste of time. Just keep doing what you are doing. Now, what you do is up to you! I am sure others will weigh in. My take is different than others. I have been on a round where I was hungry every gosh darned day. I did everything to switch things up and make me not hungry but nothing worked. What kept me going was the fact that I was losing weight every single day. I believe that since I was losing I was good. And I was. Now some believe that it is the 500 calories that make you lose---WHICH is soooo NOT true. It is the hcg, or any related product. I have seen some do the 500 calories with no hcg (or supporting product like you have) and not lose an ounce. So you believe what you want, we all have OPINIONS on here. We are not experts at all. Just trying to share our experiences.

Dawn would you increase your calories to maybe 800 calories per day while waiting for the Hhcg drops to come in?

But she can hardly get in the 500 now!! I would just go with what I felt I needed to do. If I could tolerate any more food (which she says she cannot handle what we are allowed right now) I would eat more protein. I remember Biz saying that we are on a protein sparing diet as it is, any less and you will use up your muscles for energy. That is always on my mind when I don't eat, I have to at least eat the protein. That is what I suggested she do when she could not eat ANYTHING, at least get in some protein.

I will say those extra 300 calories sound lovely to me right now LOL. Ah, the joys of P2!!

I would be concerned about the muscle loss but I would definitely increase the protein even if it is a protein shake.

What is her body using for energy if it's not taking it out of the stored fat?

Cindy--have you tried the hormone free hcg drops? That is what Shelle is on. I was reading in the thread she bumped up that karen did those. But has anyone else? I know that Karen cannot do the drops with the hormone in them.

And I think she is using her stored fat for energy. Those hcg hormone free drops are supposed to work just like the homeopathic hcg formula. So it could be that they work just fine!! She has lost inches as well as the pounds. Sound like they work to me!!

That's right Karen couldn't use some kind of drops I didn't realize they were the hormone free but if you can use if for an appetite suppressant that would be good.

If she was using the hormone free drops why not continue with them if they are working? I guess I am a little confused :stars:

Dawn and jabbok, losing inches as well as pounds is not proof that you're not burning lean muscle rather than fat. When you lose that much weight that quickly, you are going to lose inches regardless. Do some googling on "hormone free" - you'll see that it's questionable. My guess is that they are nothing but appetite suppressants - all kinds of them packed into one product. So they sort of enable you to starve yourself.

But just using my gut and common sense, those hormone-free drops do not seem legit to me - the very idea that they're lying in calling them HCG is enough to make me not trust the companies that sell them. As it is, there is already a reputable study comparing rx hcg plus VLCD to just 500 calories WITHOUT hcg that shows definite differences in muscle loss vs. fat loss. I can try to find it if you'd like - it's available on the internet and was conducted by doctors. (I'm someone who researched HCG for MONTHS before doing it and deciding to use RX with a doctor monitoring my fat loss vs. just muscle loss.)

"Hormone free HCG" is a result of the FDA putting a stop to actual homeopathic HCG being sold over the internetI think Shelle is wise to switch and I fully support her. We are not just here to lose pounds on the scale! We are trying to fix our bodies.

That said, if I were Shelle, I would probably keep taking them and try to eat the 500 calories, and maybe a bit more, until the homeopathic drops come. Or I would work up to normal eating, and then load and do a "real" round.

You guys, please know there are many definitions of "working." Losing pounds could qualify as "working," but what is it doing to your body? Is your body "eating" its own muscle (instead of fat?) Are those loses maintainable? Is the hypothalamus being "reset?" Are Leptin level issues being addressed? Come on!

I wish Shelby would chime in here. I know she has cautioned others on this "hormone free" stuff.

You can search for her previous posts. Shelby is in Mexico. I doubt she will be here before the weekend. But til then you have me ;) with my differing opinions.

Like I said, I have that round I did while hungry, I have kept OFF those pounds. It is the pounds since that round I have trouble keeping off. Some say it is because my goal is too low, but I don't think so. I think it is because I just love to eat :)

Also, Shelle, I don't think you have to do the loading days again for the homeopathic stuff to "work," but none of us can be sure. Simeons didn't use homeopathic, and it IS different from actual HCG because it only contains a fraction of the stuff.

In all honesty, I've never done homeopathic, as I'm a believer in sticking to what's been tested in a clinical setting. But most here have had fantastic results (at least as far as losing; I've only a seen a few with maintaining) with homeopathic.

I think you've got to get through the next days in whatever way your gut tells you to! No pun intended.

But that fact that you were hungry (and I have done a round that way too, remember?), doesn't mean you weren't burning fat thanks to HCG in your system! These fake HCG products have no HCG! It seems crazy not to be concerned about that. My two cents, and the common opinion on most HCG chat groups. The degree of Shelle's lack of hunger is another red flag to me.

But we have had a person who could not take the hcg with the hormone in it. She had a terrible reaction to it. I will see how she did. Let her know of this thread.

I know Karen has kept it off and maintained the weight loss for quite awhile.

Okay, but can we stop calling this non-hormone stuff HCG, at least? It may remove appetite; it enable a 500 calorie day without hunger; it may cause losses, but it is not HCG. Can we agree on that?

Shelle, I've thought about it some more. If I were you, I'd keeping taking what you have until the other stuff comes, but perhaps take a bit less... whatever amount enables you to feel okay on 500 calories. Right now you can't even eat that much, and that doesn't seem healthy. Then just switch and see how it goes. If you're too hungry right away, it might be best to stop and start over after re-stocking your fat stores. If you're okay, go forward?

This is taken from the P2 thread:

"From what I've read its a synthetic HCG hormone they put in the hormone free. I do know a friend of a friend who has used the hormone free and lost 70 pounds and looks great, her skin looks toned and has good muscle tone. I don't know i'm very confused about it all. I'm not quite sure my has real HCG in it either (although i did call the company and they said it does) so I've ordered from Intermountain now but I'm going to keep using what i have until it comes in and then switch"

I suggest you do this Shelle. It is posted by sillyme and exactly what I recommend Shelle do in her situation.

That sounds like a plan :up: She needs to eat!!! I think she was taking 15 drops 3 times a day. Maybe bump that down to 10 drops 3 times a day.

I am SO GRATEFUL for all of the input. This reading was excellent for my knowledge bank! Thanks Ladies!

I am continuing to do this at this time while I research and consider. But I am also upping my caloric intake to expand to foods I can stomach at this time. Last night my blood sugar dropped so low that I almost passed out while shopping and it took a while to recover. After a small steak meal with salad, 2 T. blue cheese and 2 sm bisquits my blood sugar was only up to 110. So I sucked on a small bite of candy and in about 20 mins felt like me again. How scary! And again, I overeat as a norm. So this is so new to me. Honestly, happy something has the power to help me but now I have to "leash" it :)

So, given that my blood sugar bottomed out in a very grave manner tells me that my body is NOT pulling fat cells out of storage for fuel? Is that correct?


But know that I have absolutely dropped a whole pants size in ONE WEEK!!! I read online that starvation mode actually kicks in around day 10. So that was yesterday for me. Now my calories up! So I am thinking that I did not do damage to my muscles at this time.


Again, because I am changing my variety of food right now, not eating is not an issue and neither is cravings. Thank God! But I will be watching this and being extremely careful. My plan is to eat small, small amounts every couple of hours as needed. I don't know. Just trying to make the best of it until I know! :confused:

I also ordered The Weight-Loss Apolcolype AND Pounds And Inches today. I have them on kindle but I want them as reference books and REALLY dig in deep.

buttah--I sooo agree with that. Those companies that scream "HCG Diet" and then put the "hormone free" so small you cannot even see it, are just after a buck. Capitalizing on the "new diet fad". They are not right. Frustrating beyond belief.

Shelle-that would scare me to death. Glad you are OK. I hope you can get this sorted out with what you want to do. And you need to be healthy!!! :console::console: Be careful.

You need to eat even if you can drink a protein shake just to get some calories in that is very scary.

Shelle, Pounds & Inches is a free PDF all over the internet. Just google it and read. I've read it many times and new things pop out at me every time. But I really believe Simeons was on to something. I've also skyped with Robin Woodall, the author of WLA.

I believe your blood sugar IS an indication that something isn't right, so I applaud you for doing your homework and getting it done right.

I was never someone who "wasn't at all hungry" on HCG, but the way it has changed my body is truly staggering. I have a better shape than I've ever had, even at this weight when I was younger.

You're gonna be fine!! (And skinny).

Thank you ladies! The scale was up 2 pounds this morning. I know I didn't eat more than 1000 calories yesterday and sure some sodium was in them (pinwheel split with husband from Walmart ended the day). But you know what? I am NOT doing this!!!! I am DONE seeing my weight fluctuate over a little bit of nothing. I mean, come on! 1000 calories???
SO, I have had 2 days of "greater than 500" but less then 1000. I am going to eat very strict until the real deal gets here. Continue taking these drops. and when the other bottles get here start.

Now my question. Would it be BETTER for the activation of the real-deal to begin with ONE loading day? I really dont want to do two. But something tells me that I should have at least one due to the science behind it. Or maybe eat regular for 1 day, and then have a BIG loading day and then the drops? Regular being about 2000-2500 calories then load while taking drops.

ALSO, why hormone-free? What is the scare of the hormone?

Thanks bunches ladies!!!
Shelle

Buttah, I have been "hungry" lots of the time but it is physical hunger and my brain is like, "Really? Eating again?" I believe being in ketosis was part of that too, which the drops got me to. All is all, it works! But I want the hormonal response that attacks the fat stores and resets my entire body. :)

The FDA put the scare into everyone with a threat to remove homeopathics that actually contained HCG. It didn't shut them down, but they threatened to, so another angle was started with the hormone free.

Shelle, did you mean "mind hunger?" Physical hunger is the one you really shouldn't ignore, except perhaps on the first few days of HCG - at least not according to Robin Woodall. Robin believe the reason HCG works is all about Leptin levels (I won't try to summarize here) - she's done tons of research. When you are physically hungry is WHEN you should eat. When you said you couldn't get food down, I assumed you were physically NOT hungry, so I'm confused.

I'm not sure about the one loading day. If you read P&I and take into account the way HCG is supposed to work, it would seem to me that you should either completely wean yourself off the hormone free stuff (whatever it is), then start over with proper loading OR try to maintain (or maybe lose a little) by adjusting food and fake HCG drops until you can start on the homeopathic ones (I have difficulty calling those "real" either - as there are only minute amounts of HCG in there - but at least it's IN there!), sans loading (since you're already "comfortable" on the VLCD).

You may have some of the slightly (or more than slightly) hungry days that Simeons writes about when people don't load properly, but at least you won't have a huge interruption in your diet. But Simeons says even those (not even loading people) eventually get comfortable. I know I was really "starving" for about 8 days my first round, before it got "manageable."

But it's a tough call.

As for why the hormone free, Kateenie is exactly right. But if you read P and I, and look at the Brazilian study on RX HCG vs. just 500 calories, it will reaffirm your desire for the actual hormone. It's too bad the diet industry has put the kabosh on it the way they have. I have lost about 45 pounds, half with HCG and half without, and I will tell you the difference is UNBELIEVABLE in terms where the fat came off, how I feel and how I look.

Buttah, it was mind hunger and I know it is confusing. Normally one eats from NOT feeling physical hunger but having cravings. What I experienced was hunger pangs and empty feeling but NO DESIRE to eat. So much so it gagged me. Like if you have the flu and you just cant stomach food though you know you could eat.

Could you explain more the difference of WHERE and HOW you can tell the weightloss with hcg and without. Very interested!

Shelle--it is very easy to GAIN on the hcg. Just don't even ask me how I know :o So yes, you can gain crazy amounts of weight on 1000 calories ON THE HCG!!!! And it really depends on what those calories are made of. Dr S has a specific list you are to eat from. Veer from that and whoa nelly! You will gain. But it will come off. Remember that while taking the hcg, your body is pulling from fat stores so you are not actually only consuming the 50 calories. I won't even get into what it is that you are taking/doing with hormone free hcg. If the body thinks you are getting hcg it can react like you are getting hcg. Anyhow, that is why you should NOT cheat while on hcg! Lesson learned for if you start a new round.

The more I hear about this non-hormone stuff, the more I'm convinced it's not working like HCG should. The empty stomach but don't want to eat feeling your describing sounds like a reaction I once had to a stimulant medication. It caused me to lose weight rapidly, but I gained it all back as soon as I went off (and it also made me feel wired and jittery - in a way that made me not want to eat.)

As for your other question, I have always had big thighs - this is the thinnest they've ever been - even at this same weight. And my arms have never looked better, even at lower weights. And my face... the list goes on. I honestly feel like I could happily stay at this weight, even though once upon a time, it seemed I needed to weigh less to look this "good." It really does seem as if the "reshaping" Simeons wrote about HAS taken place (and I was so skeptical about that). I feel like rather than places getting smaller that I don't want/need to get smaller, the exact right places have gotten smaller. Does that make sense?