P2 Simeons Protocol Month of Feb 2013

[toomuchbooty]

Lifeisgood- Some people have observed that their body fat feels extra squishy right before a whoosh. Here is an excerpt from a blog post on a site called Body Re-composition. Around here, we call it Jiggly Poof!

Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat
Before you freak out and think you’ve entered some weird Internet forum where people talk about stalls and whooshes, please bear with me; there’s actually some physiological rationale to what I’m going to discuss.
Many people have noted that fat loss is often discontinuous, that is it often happens in stops and starts. So you’ll be dieting and dieting and doing everything correctly with nothing to show for it. Then, boom, almost overnight, you drop 4 pounds and look leaner.
What’s going on? Back during my college days, one of my professors threw out the idea that after fat cells had been emptied of stored triglyceride, they would temporarily refill with water (glycerol attracts water, which might be part of the mechanism). So there would be no immediate change in size, body weight or appearance. Then, after some time frame, the water would get dropped, the fat cells would shrink. A weird way of looking at it might be that the fat loss suddenly becomes ‘apparent’. That is, the fat was emptied and burned off days or weeks ago but until the water is dropped, nothing appears to have happened.
For nearly 20 years I looked for research to support this, I was never sure if it was based on something from the 50’s or he just pulled it out of thin air as an explanation. Recently, one paper did suggest that visceral fat can fill up with water after massive weight loss but that’s about it.
Somewhat circumstantially, people using Bioimpedance body fat scales (which use hydration to estimate body fat levels) have noted that body fat appears to go up right before a big drop. This implicates water balance as the issue here.
As well, women, who have more problems with water retention, seem to have bigger issues with stalls and whooshes than men. Further, some individuals who have done dry carb-loads (high carbohydrate refeeds without drinking a lot of water) have seen them occur; presumably the body pulls water into the muscles and out of other tissues (fat cells). In lean individuals, appearance is often drastically improved with this approach, it doesn’t do much for those carrying a lot of fat.
I’d note that dry carb-loads suck because you’re so damn thirsty. Interestingly, even normal refeeds often work in this regards, perhaps the hormonal effect ‘tells’ the body to chill out and release some water. So not only do refeeds seem to improve stubborn fat mobilization the next day (as discussed above), they may help the body drop some water so that you can see what is happening.
Finally, many have reported whooshes following an evening which included alcohol. A mild diuretic, this would also tend to implicate water balance issues in the whoosh phenomenon.
I’d also note that this isn’t universal, lean dieters often see visual improvements on a day to day basis; a lot seems to depend on whether or not they tend to retain water in general. Folks who do have problems with water retention tend to have stalls and whooshes, those who don’t show nice consistent visual changes.
On a related topic, I wanted to discuss something else that often happens when people are getting very lean and dealing with stubborn body fat: the fat gets squishy, feeling almost like there are small marbles under the skin. Yes, very scientific, I know. That’s the best I can do.
As folks get very lean, down to the last pounds of fat, the skin and fat cells that are left will often change appearance and texture. It will look dimply (as the fat cells which are supporting the skin shrink and the skin isn’t supported) and feel squishy to the touch. This is bad in that it looks really weird, but it’s good because it means that the fat is going away. I have nothing truly profound to say about this topic, just realizes that it happens and usually indicates good things are happening.

[Avy]

I did find a local naturopath today who will prescribe the drops, but it's definitely a more expensive process than the do it yourself online purchase. 4120 for the initial consult, 490 for the prescription, then $50 x 4 weekly visits for a b12 injection and consult.

It's definitely going to be an option for me down the road. I really don't know how the drops by prescription compare to what I can buy from Intermountain or Miracleskinnydrops, which both come highly recommended by people on different forums.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Avy

I did find a local naturopath today who will prescribe the drops, but it's definitely a more expensive process than the do it yourself online purchase. 4120 for the initial consult, 490 for the prescription, then $50 x 4 weekly visits for a b12 injection and consult.

It's definitely going to be an option for me down the road. I really don't know how the drops by prescription compare to what I can buy from Intermountain or Miracleskinnydrops, which both come highly recommended by people on different forums.

That is what prevents me from doing the hcg through a clinic. I could NOT afford that price!!! Even buying Rx DIY would not cost that much. I don't know how much Rx costs because I do the homeopathic. But with the homeopathic I lost all I needed to lose in 3 rounds and that was under $100 total!! I reached goal and lost all I needed to lose for under $100. Doesn't even compare to a clinic.

[toomuchbooty]

Originally Posted by Avy

I did find a local naturopath today who will prescribe the drops, but it's definitely a more expensive process than the do it yourself online purchase. 4120 for the initial consult, 490 for the prescription, then $50 x 4 weekly visits for a b12 injection and consult.

It's definitely going to be an option for me down the road. I really don't know how the drops by prescription compare to what I can buy from Intermountain or Miracleskinnydrops, which both come highly recommended by people on different forums.

That sounds crazy! My ND does injections, the prescription was $100 (the cost from the pharmacy, covered by some medical plans), first visit is $120 and weekly visits $70...but my insurance covers 80% of the visit charges.

I'm hoping those were typos and the "4" was supposed to be "$".

[dawnyama]

toomuch--I think your clinic is higher LOL. Hers is $120 for the initial visit/$90 for the script/$50 for each weekly visit. So yours works out to be only slightly higher. Still way more expensive than the DIY hcg.

[toomuchbooty]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

toomuch--I think your clinic is higher LOL. Hers is $120 for the initial visit/$90 for the script/$50 for each weekly visit. So yours works out to be only slightly higher. Still way more expensive than the DIY hcg.

But I only pay 80% of that because of my medical coverage.

I thought she was saying $490 for drops! That's why I was asking if it's a typo! It would make sense for it to be more expensive in Vancouver, but since it's mostly covered it's negligible.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by toomuchbooty

But I only pay 80% of that because of my medical coverage.

I thought she was saying $490 for drops!

I know, I thought so too then I saw that the $ and the 4 are on the same key. I wish it were covered under medical insurance here Lucky you! If it were, I would be all over it. As it is I can barely get insurance to cover what they are supposed to cover

[toomuchbooty]

To be honest, if I had to pay out of pocket here...I'd still do it. Expensive, but this round has been nearly effortless compared to previous attempts.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by toomuchbooty

To be honest, if I had to pay out of pocket here...I'd still do it. Expensive, but this round has been nearly effortless compared to previous attempts.

Fabulous I am so happy for you, you deserve it. Like I said, the Rx you can get online. So, you can do it cheaper than going with a clinic. But the support and accountability---cannot be beat

[toomuchbooty]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Fabulous I am so happy for you, you deserve it. Like I said, the Rx you can get online. So, you can do it cheaper than going with a clinic. But the support and accountability---cannot be beat

Definitely, also the comfort of knowing exactly where the stuff I'm injecting came from.

[Lifeisgood]

I'm now doing the RX shots and going through a clinic. Mainly because even though I lost weight on the drops and pellets, I think it was hard on my body as I was pretty much starving myself and whatever was in the drops and pellets was just appetite suppressants and "other" stuff. Anyone can lose with 500 calories a day. On the drops and pellets, I never went into ketosis, I tested with the PG test and never showed positive results, like you are supposed to if you are on HCG. Even the people I purchased the drops from acknowledged that the HCG was minimal and wouldn't show up on any test. So, I'm trying the shots and seeing if I feel any different, will test in a week to see if I'm in ketosis or if the shots show positive results on a PG test. I would never know if I didn't try it. It is costing me $850 for 6 weeks, this includes weekly B12 injections. Hey, hope it's a positive experience (pun intended).

[toomuchbooty]

For the record, if rx wasn't available to me I would sure as hell be back on Intermountain homeopathic.

[Felina]

I'm on the Rx hCG now. I've alternated my rounds between Rx and hhCG. I get into ketosis every time no matter which type I use.

I actually think I lose better and have less hunger with hhCG. That being said, the shots are so much easier. Once in the morning and you don't have to think about it all day. If I'm going to work or just be out I don't have to bring anything with me because I'm done for the day. I can't even feel those little shots. There's absolutely no pain.

If you look at my signature you will see that I had one round in which I didn't lose anything other than my loading weight. That was a round of rx hCG. I was also hungrier during that round with nothing to show for it. I concluded that there was something wrong with that batch or I possibly did something wrong so that the batch of Rx hCG wasn't any good.

And no, not everyone loses on a 500 calorie diet. I ate less than 400 calories a day consistently during that round and couldn't lose an ounce. You see since it was a bad batch there was no hCG to prevent me from being in starvation mode so my body just adapted to the 380 calorie diet. But, whether I use homeopathic or Rx, if the hCG is a good batch, I lose weight on it.

[walkingwoman]

I know this isn't part of the protocol but has anyone used mushrooms and/or zucchini as part of their menu? thinking of having some mushrooms tomorrow since I bought them before I jumped into this. They are obviously super low cal/low carb, but just wondering if anyone had experience with these foods. Thanks.

[Jeanyyy]

I have used both mushrooms and zucchini and broccoli and brussels sprouts.. None of them seemed to stall me.

Just for fun, I tested with ketostix this morning and I am definitely in ketosis with the Intermountain pellets, just as I was the last round with Omni drops (which are much more expensive). It's possible I would lose faster if I went the clinic route and I may look into that for a future round, just to have the experience (assuming medical will cover some of it). Just not sure what the requirements are for our medical plan to do so - but a visit to the clinic would tell me that (or maybe booty will?).

[toomuchbooty]

Jeanny, I have extended medical benefits through work that covers naturopathic doctor visits up to a certain amount per year. I'm not sure how it works with regular MSP.

[Lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Jeanyyy

I have used both mushrooms and zucchini and broccoli and brussels sprouts.. None of them seemed to stall me.

Just for fun, I tested with ketostix this morning and I am definitely in ketosis with the Intermountain pellets, just as I was the last round with Omni drops (which are much more expensive). It's possible I would lose faster if I went the clinic route and I may look into that for a future round, just to have the experience (assuming medical will cover some of it). Just not sure what the requirements are for our medical plan to do so - but a visit to the clinic would tell me that (or maybe booty will?).

Yay for your ketosis! Mine only tested small to trace, never ever dark purple.

[Lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Felina

I'm on the Rx hCG now. I've alternated my rounds between Rx and hhCG. I get into ketosis every time no matter which type I use.

I actually think I lose better and have less hunger with hhCG. That being said, the shots are so much easier. Once in the morning and you don't have to think about it all day. If I'm going to work or just be out I don't have to bring anything with me because I'm done for the day. I can't even feel those little shots. There's absolutely no pain.

If you look at my signature you will see that I had one round in which I didn't lose anything other than my loading weight. That was a round of rx hCG. I was also hungrier during that round with nothing to show for it. I concluded that there was something wrong with that batch or I possibly did something wrong so that the batch of Rx hCG wasn't any good.

And no, not everyone loses on a 500 calorie diet. I ate less than 400 calories a day consistently during that round and couldn't lose an ounce. You see since it was a bad batch there was no hCG to prevent me from being in starvation mode so my body just adapted to the 380 calorie diet. But, whether I use homeopathic or Rx, if the hCG is a good batch, I lose weight on it.

When you did the RX HCG, did you mix it yourself or did you get pre-made shots for the week? My shots are all pre-made by the clinic so I'm hoping against hope this is the real deal and I think I've done everything I can to make sure I'm getting the real stuff. My goodness, I would hate to think I've invested this much and not lose anything. That would be devistating.

[Jeanyyy]

Originally Posted by toomuchbooty

Jeanny, I have extended medical benefits through work that covers naturopathic doctor visits up to a certain amount per year. I'm not sure how it works with regular MSP.

Oh, I have those too. For some reason, I didn't think HCG treatments would qualify, but I will definitely look into it for next time. Thanks, booty

[Reddy]

Today is VLCD 2 and I'm back at my start weight.

My loading days netted me 4lb gain (last time I gained 7!) and it's off so now it's losses from here forward.

Hunger was minimal yesterday which gives me hope for a successful round. Last time I was starving the entire time! (I do rx injections)

The only issue is that I had two fillings done last week and my teeth are hurting me. I want to take ibuprofen - will that affect my losses? From what I read it should be negligible - maybe slight water retention but I guess that's ok.

The sensitivity to hot and cold makes my drinking water and tea more difficult

[toomuchbooty]

Well, I've finally hit my first swing up on the scale. I'm pretty sure it's a TOM thing. I am retaining water like crazy. My rings are all tight! Grrrr!

[jabbok]

Originally Posted by toomuchbooty

Well, I've finally hit my first swing up on the scale. I'm pretty sure it's a TOM thing. I am retaining water like crazy. My rings are all tight! Grrrr!

hang tough you will get your whoosh, you are doing really good.

[toomuchbooty]

Originally Posted by jabbok

hang tough you will get your whoosh, you are doing really good.

Thanks Cindy!

[walkingwoman]

Originally Posted by Jeanyyy

I have used both mushrooms and zucchini and broccoli and brussels sprouts.. None of them seemed to stall me.

Thanks for sharing I'm going for it today! I'm making stuffed mushrooms with diced shrooms, chicken sausage I'm making from scratch with assorted seasonings, celery and onion. I know it isn't strict protocol and hope I can still post on this thread with you guys and don't get the waggy finger but I hate wasting food and these are in the fridge

Scale is down .4 so I'm on vlcd2 and down 2.4 lbs! I'll take it.

Wishing everyone a great day and happy losses!

[Jeanyyy]

Down .3 today... this week started off with a bang, but is now limping along. One more day for the "week" then at least 2 more weeks to go. I hope things speed up a little. That being said, I had a fruit last night really late.

Have you guys tried making the strawberry sorbet? About 1 cup of frozen strawberries with 1 cup or slightly less of cold water, plus your 1 Tbsp of milk and sweeteners of choice... mushed up in your food processor or Magic Bullet? Mmmm... so good!

[toomuchbooty]

I made orange sorbet in the vitamix last night, it was incredible!

[Felina]

Lifeisgood, I mixed it myself, so it's possible that I did something wrong. Don't know what though. I purchased 5 orders of Fertigyn. All of the others were good.

booty, hang in there (I know you will). I was up .5 yesterday (I'm weighing obsessively again), then today down 2.2 lbs. Total for both days is -1.7. That whoosh is coming

[toomuchbooty]

Ya, I am looking forward to my Dr. visit on Saturday so I can see the real numbers.

[caligirl3]

I'm done loading and ready to LOSE!!! I'm going for a 30-day round, and I'm on Day 4 today. I'm up 7 pounds from LDW, but I know that will come off fast! Sure went on fast! I've got about 3/4 of a bottle of drops left, and I'm wondering what everyone's using. I didn't have luck with the patch, and am wondering if I should go to the pellets. Any recommendations - I hate taking drops... No way am I injecting!

[torister]

Its been a while, but here I am back on track to getting healthy with what I know works.

I am on P2VLCD14 and I am down 22lbs (14 lbs pre-load) in spite of having 4 days at the same weight (I white knuckled it through those days and got a 2.2 whoosh in thanks!!).

Anyway.....this board really helped my on plan...so I am *back*.

Did I mention this is day 4 of no diet coke? THAT is a *huge* deal. It is a habit that needs to be kicked to the curb!!