P3~P4 SIMEONS PROTOCOL JANUARY 2013

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by pandora174

C'Marie all I can commiserate I think we get comfortable when we're stable or doing really well and things can get out of hand. Though it is useless for me to tell you not to beat yourself up try and not to I would drink lots of water and if I have eggs do an egg day or the potatos like you have. Easy on the sodium and gets lots of sleep. The weight will come off. We have the tools now to take care of it.

But why does it come on soooo easy and take forever to come off

[pandora174]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

But why does it come on soooo easy and take forever to come off

I know right ?!?!

[Jeanyyy]

From Pounds and Inches, page 24 of 43 (the .pdf): "When local conditions or the feeding habits of the population make changes necessary it must be borne in mind that the total daily intake must not exceed 500 Calories if the best possible results are to be obtained, that the daily ration should contain 200 grams of fat-free protein and a very small amount of starch."

I went looking for where Dr. Simeons said the patient could omit anything he wanted and that is on page 23/43: "Those not uncommon patients who feel that even so little food is too much for them, can omit anything they wish."

Contradiction?

[Jeanyyy]

Originally Posted by buttah

Jeanyyy, coffeemate (light or otherwise) is full of crap and carbs. You'd be better off with half and half or even HWC! I used half n half my last week first round (I was completely fed up with not losing by then), but so far this round, black (and I'm with you - I miss it). I just want to do it "right" one time.

Yeah, I know it's garbage... but I'm trying!!

[C'Marie]

THAT'S IT!

I'm jumping back on hcg after my birthday next week. I have ordered. I am doing a round, then JUDDDing (yes, yes, I know - not recommended - ) and if I lose in P3 I'm letting it happen this time! I stopped myself from losing and I'm not going to - I will do P3 rules JUDDD-style at maintenance calories but if I lose, I lose - then in P4 I will hit JUDDD strict and if I lose, I lose, if not, after 3-4 weeks of that, I'm hcg'ing it again until I get to goal. I am sick and tired of these same 15 pounds. If I'm going to be struggling in a 15-pound range, it sure as heck should be my goal range!

So. There.

(PS Shelby, I will continue to monitor and take my adrenal meds and will do thorough thyroid testing either between rounds or when I'm done this time, I SWEAR!)

[dawnyama]

Marie. I know you can do it! Loading today? Or when you get your supplies? The way you talk of JUDDD, I might just do that when I am done with this round. I have done miserably with my weight--lost a whole 2 lbs this past week. I could probably do that on JUDDD too.

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

THAT'S IT!

I'm jumping back on hcg after my birthday next week. I have ordered. I am doing a round, then JUDDDing (yes, yes, I know - not recommended - ) and if I lose in P3 I'm letting it happen this time! I stopped myself from losing and I'm not going to - I will do P3 rules JUDDD-style at maintenance calories but if I lose, I lose - then in P4 I will hit JUDDD strict and if I lose, I lose, if not, after 3-4 weeks of that, I'm hcg'ing it again until I get to goal. I am sick and tired of these same 15 pounds. If I'm going to be struggling in a 15-pound range, it sure as heck should be my goal range!

So. There.

(PS Shelby, I will continue to monitor and take my adrenal meds and will do thorough thyroid testing either between rounds or when I'm done this time, I SWEAR!)

I'm happy you're back on with me!! Do you do pellets or drops? I would like to know so that I can stop seeing this doctor and feel comfy about doing drops or pellets next time. When you cheat on p2 do you not loose for 4 days or so? Cause my coworker is doing drops but cheats and still looses. Yesterday we went to the cafeteria and she had jambalaya. I went along to pick up some splenda. Why can she cheat and get away with it and I follow it to a T and sts? Maddening. If you were taking real hcg and cheated you wouldnt loose for a couple days but since shes on drops of some kind and cheats with losses does that mean shes just extreme low calorie?

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Marie. I know you can do it! Loading today? Or when you get your supplies? The way you talk of JUDDD, I might just do that when I am done with this round. I have done miserably with my weight--lost a whole 2 lbs this past week. I could probably do that on JUDDD too.

You too same questions please tell me what you get pellets or drops...
How many days does it take to recooperate from going off plan?

I need to feel okay with calling my dr and telling him I wont be coming back Friday. He wants me to pay him weekly and I never even see him I only see the Med Assistant who takes my weight and honestly I hate the way they talk to me in general..... and I feel scared to do it, just cause its injection vs homeopathic and my mind says that injection is more potent.
I need to feel okay with doing it alone. Obviously you guys do it and are successful so I know I can I just need reassurance!

[dawnyama]

Lara--I am doing the pellets. When I eat "off plan" I don't lose. I cannot understand how some folks can get away with any deviation and still lose. Maybe she isn't losing and just telling you she is so she can justify it? This round is going awfully. But I have re-started so many times (I call them restarts but I believe that "off plan" eating is just catching up to me) that I think I won't show losses for a few more days. I have lost a whole whopping 2 pounds this past week. I was expecting bigger losses since this week I have been spot on protocol. Ugh!!!! So I am going to look at the dates and see when I can call this the end of my round. I am then going to move on to JUDDD for P3--just like C'Marie did. That means no hcg + JUDDD, just JUDDD while IN P3.

The pellets are very simple, easy and I highly recommend them. You will lose on them!!!

[pandora174]

Lara- I 2nd what dawn says. I've used the drops & now the pellets. If I deviate or cheat I won't lose. I still remember the round I got adventurous and had the noodles with no calories and the next day gained 1.2 and then it took me 3 days to get to where I was before. When my co-worker did her version of the diet it was the same. She did not eat on plan and lost but then her she ended her round & jumped into P3 and was doing Weight Watchers so you never really know if they are losing like they say kwim ?

[pandora174]

Morning ! R4P2D5 & down -2.4 to 137.6. At least I can see the 130's again. Now I should be escatic and so happy, right ? Well I am but while I know there is no point in beating myself up it's there in the back of my mind. "look what you did" "you could be losing new weight instead of old weight"

Anyway, today I feel better but yesterday & the day before were the hardest days for me mentally & even physically. This round is exhausting for some reason. I am headachy, grumpy, feeling hungrier than usual (yesterday added another dose of the pellets & it worked), just plain old tired.

Sticking to it because I will not accept the alternative which is to quit and then stay at 137 or higher when I am not happy at that weight. I will stick it out for the full 23 days minimum and hope for 30 days if possible. But darn some rounds are a breeze compared to others. This is definitely an "other" round.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by pandora174

Morning ! R4P2D5 & down -2.4 to 137.6. At least I can see the 130's again. Now I should be escatic and so happy, right ? Well I am but while I know there is no point in beating myself up it's there in the back of my mind. "look what you did" "you could be losing new weight instead of old weight"

Anyway, today I feel better but yesterday & the day before were the hardest days for me mentally & even physically. This round is exhausting for some reason. I am headachy, grumpy, feeling hungrier than usual (yesterday added another dose of the pellets & it worked), just plain old tired.

Sticking to it because I will not accept the alternative which is to quit and then stay at 137 or higher when I am not happy at that weight. I will stick it out for the full 23 days minimum and hope for 30 days if possible. But darn some rounds are a breeze compared to others. This is definitely an "other" round.

I know how you feel I am looking at dates to get out of this he** I started You definitely have to be in the right frame of mind for one round, and I didn't get into it til this past week

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Lara--I am doing the pellets. When I eat "off plan" I don't lose. I cannot understand how some folks can get away with any deviation and still lose. Maybe she isn't losing and just telling you she is so she can justify it? This round is going awfully. But I have re-started so many times (I call them restarts but I believe that "off plan" eating is just catching up to me) that I think I won't show losses for a few more days. I have lost a whole whopping 2 pounds this past week. I was expecting bigger losses since this week I have been spot on protocol. Ugh!!!! So I am going to look at the dates and see when I can call this the end of my round. I am then going to move on to JUDDD for P3--just like C'Marie did. That means no hcg + JUDDD, just JUDDD while IN P3.

The pellets are very simple, easy and I highly recommend them. You will lose on them!!!

Okay... at least you're down 2 but I can understand your frustration. I wish I had the patience to do judd but I would be afraid that my up days would be a gorge and out of control.
So, are you allowed to say your brand of pellets? Just so I can have a back up plan for next time if I need to?

Thanks Pandora, I agree with you guys I cant understand why some people get away with murder. but im sure theres a catch.

ok I will call my dr today. we will see what happens.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

Okay... at least you're down 2 but I can understand your frustration. I wish I had the patience to do judd but I would be afraid that my up days would be a gorge and out of control.
So, are you allowed to say your brand of pellets? Just so I can have a back up plan for next time if I need to?

Thanks Pandora, I agree with you guys I cant understand why some people get away with murder. but im sure theres a catch.

ok I will call my dr today. we will see what happens.

I use Intermountain pellets. That is all I can say--brand name only.

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

I use Intermountain pellets. That is all I can say--brand name only.

Thank you very much, I can research the rest. You're the best and Im so glad you're here. So good to see the same people all the time.

One more question, do they have an expiration date?

I feel relieved now that I know I can get them whenever I want with out paying through the nose.

[pandora174]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

Thank you very much, I can research the rest. You're the best and Im so glad you're here. So good to see the same people all the time.

One more question, do they have an expiration date?

I feel relieved now that I know I can get them whenever I want with out paying through the nose.

Mine are Intermoutain as well. Yes I'm looking at the bottle and their exp date is Apr 2015.

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by pandora174

Mine are Intermoutain as well. Yes I'm looking at the bottle and their exp date is Apr 2015.

ooh thats nice, the exp date is a long time away, thank you for checking.

Sure would be nice to carry them around versus accidentally forgetting to inject or heaven forbid leaving the vial out of the fridge for a day.

is it possible that they would stop seling them for some reason? Are the ones that got pulled from the market the ones that didnt have enough hcg in them?

I'm full of questions today. But this is helping my anxiety of switching go away.

[dawnyama]

Lara---yes, they can pull them from the market at any time. They have been threatening to do that now forever. The homeopathic is very controversial and when the FDA feels like it,they will crack down. The reason I have my stash. The pellets I have are the ones that say they have the hcg in them---they have the numbers they are supposed to have. Not sure how long those will be around.

[LaraSuzz]

im so embarrassed I bought 6 shirts same style but 6 diff colors and I accidentally wore the same one today from yesterday cause I hung it up lol I wont be taking my jacket off

[C'Marie]

Lara, I use rx. I inject. I can't remember to do anything 3-4x a day LOL. And yes, if I cheated I know I wouldn't lose. I have never actually cheated while on hcg, unless you count my 3rd round where I used that chocolate coconut delite but counted it as part of my calories. I lost but couldn't stabilize. I do sometimes sub egg powder protein instead of actual eggs or I use nonfat greek yogurt as a milk protein. I do plan on sticking to protocol foods but I may up my protein to 4 oz instead of 3.5. We'll see. I may also use a couple protein shakes for days I can't eat meat (when I get stressed I can't eat).

I dunno what happened here. I was doing relatively good. Friday I weighed and I was fine, a couple pounds above where I like to be, but I felt good. I did 1100/500/100 calories tues/wed/thurs. That may have set me up for a binge, because then I lost it and had 2 days completely off plan. Monday I did a bacon and egg day, 1500 calories, then potato days Tues/Wed 1100/800. That 5 pounds is staying on no matter what I do right now. Last time I did the potato "hack" I lost (before Christmas eve) and lost great and felt great, in fact, got to just barely above window. Both days on it I got dizzy this time and didn't lose one ounce. I do feel like I'm fighting getting sick right now, sinuses hurt. Got on the scale this a.m. and that 5 still there. Today I am doing bacon and eggs for breakfast and we'll see about lunch/dinner. I am considering doing a steak day tomorrow. I have to go help my daughter today.

My birthday is next week and I will load and get going then. If I am going to have yucky detox days I need to get them over with fast before tax season really heats up.

[LaraSuzz]

This last round was the most successful for me but I think by eating too much one day a week so I toatlly understand your dilemma. I am proud of myself for doing so well but at the end it creeped up slowly. Ive got to find a a way to control the holidays when it comes around this year.
I was really only up by about 10 pounds at my 8 week mark. but add loading and then you feel defeated. Feels good to loose again. I want to get to a point where I feel like I really accomplished what I set out to do and stayed there. I've been thinking a lot about how to keep it off. havent come to a conclusion just yet.

Ok so I called the doctor and cancelled my appointment. I know I can get intermountain pellets but what about injectable I would most likely have to mix that right?

Do you have any suggestions for ordering injectable hcg C'Marie?

Lara

[pandora174]

Ok so I follow lots of different HCG sites on facebook. Last night I was reading n HCG coach that has kept the weight off for 10 years ! Over 100 lbs and she is a size 4/6. Hit home for me since I've also lost over 100 lbs & am a size 4-6. She said that for her she eats clean after P2 and does a great P3/P4 and then the carbs start coming back in and then the sugar and next thing the weight comes on.

And she is a coach !! but she also states there are 2 types of hcg dieters. The ones that have 10 to 15 lbs to lose and then maintain perfect because they've had the tools all their lives and then the others. Those that have have food issues all their lives and were obese or very heavy. So how does she maintain ? Well she has an 8 lb rule. Yes she weighs in everyday. If over
2 lbs depends she'll do a correction day (eat high protein, egg day whatever) but her real rule is if she is 8 lbs over - no matter what - she'll do a : "correction round".

She does the homepathic so she gets on the drops for 1 week and does the diet & the weight comes off & then she does a full P3. She says she usually sees herself doing this about 2x per year. When I read it a part of me was a little sad as I could so easily see this happening to me but then darn that that wasn't so bad after all.

[dawnyama]

pandora--I know of some who do a "detox round" every year once they reach goal. They do it in January because of that holiday eating LOL. But I do see many people who do reach goal on hcg do rounds once done to maintain. I also know that for some it is NOT to take pounds off necessarily but to eat cleanly and detox the system. For those, they have found that hcg takes care of cravings and gives you that "clean slate" to begin afresh and anew!! But doing it one week instead of the 21 days........oh, that sounds marvelous!!!!! Thanks so much for sharing !!!

[pandora174]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

pandora--I know of some who do a "detox round" every year once they reach goal. They do it in January because of that holiday eating LOL. But I do see many people who do reach goal on hcg do rounds once done to maintain. I also know that for some it is NOT to take pounds off necessarily but to eat cleanly and detox the system. For those, they have found that hcg takes care of cravings and gives you that "clean slate" to begin afresh and anew!! But doing it one week instead of the 21 days........oh, that sounds marvelous!!!!! Thanks so much for sharing !!!

I know right ?? I was like, "this isn't so bad" I'll try and find her post. Here it is :

Here is an overview of how I use this diet to maintain my weight in "real life." Its not perfect, but it works for me... and I wanted to share with you all.

There are many different types of people who use the hcg diet to lose weight:

One... type are the people who want to lose 10-15 pounds. They have let their weight creep up a few pounds a year, or have gone through menopause, or have been on a medication that caused them to gain a little, or have recently had a baby, etc. They lose the weight, move onto real life, and never gain the weight back. Yaaay!

And then there is the rest of us...

For many of us, food is and has been our drug of choice. We eat when we are happy, sad, bored, lonely...you name it we will find an excuse. If you are like me, you have used food destructively in the past and for many of us that's why we got overweight in the first place.

The promise of this program is - if you stay on it and don't cheat - you will once and for all get the weight off. I promise. During phase three you will lock in that weight loss, reset your metabolism, and your body will accept your new weight as its baseline constant. You will not gain the weight back from normal eating (of about 2000 calories per day) I promise.

For many people who have "graduated from the diet" they get it right away...they never gain a pound back. This program has re-taught them how to eat properly, understand portion sizes and truly understand that lean proteins, vegetables and fruits are the way to "eat to live."

However, for many more of us (me included) food is an addiction...or at the very least a destructive force in our lives that we often cannot control.

The easiest way for me to explain my thoughts around this is to share my personal experience.

I have lost 100+ pounds on this program. I am currently a size 4-6 and have maintained my weight for several years. The ideal weight for my body type and shape is 135 ( which I am at.) I am usually very good about changing my eating for the first few months after a round on the diet. It is still fresh in my mind how good I feel and felt while on P2. Not eating refined carbs, sugar and oils is really when my body feels best. But a three or four months into "real life" I start to let my old habits creep up...high carb meals, I lose my portion size control, and sugar starts to sneaks back in. I stop ordering the salads or lean proteins when I eat out, and instead start choosing things like pasta and ordering more bread. It's slow at first... a little bit here and there, and then my destructiveness kicks in and its on!

You may or may not have experienced this too.

What I do is this.... I weight myself everyday and will for the rest of my life. This is so important. Do not let yourself slip into denial by pretending to not know when your weight is starting to creep back up.

I give myself a 8 pound weight gain limit, anything under that I do not freak out about... I try to increase my exercise and manage my food intake to get it off. But if I step on the scale and I am 9 pounds over where I ended P2 ( for me 135) that's my cut off. No matter what I have coming up in my life...no procrastinating, no putting it off. I snap into gear and jump back on the diet for a week that day. It of course only takes a week to lose the 8 pounds...which is great... but more importantly it gets me right back in line and back on track with eating healthy.

[buttah]

But what about the whole "21 day" minimum thing? I wonder why she doesn't do the drops for 21 days and just up the calories into maintenance mode for the duration (per Simeons when people reach goal before 21 days). Because I tend to believe Simeons that the body needs a minimum amount of time for the "resetting" to take place. And many have found stabilization to be easier after longer rounds.

In other words, is doing short rounds like that putting her body in a situation where she NEEDS to do them repetitively, because they're not long enough?

And I still have questions about fat loss with the hhcg. I recently posted in another thread that I found a recent study that completely proved actual pound loss was no different with a 500 calorie diet and a placebo vs. a 500 calorie diet with rx HCG... BUT fat loss was significantly greater with rxHCG.

We here know for sure that HHCG suppresses appetite (but is this the minuscule amount of the hormone or other stuff they add to the pellets?), and thus the diet can be followed and the pounds melt off. Searching high and low, I've found several doctors (homeopaths AND western ones) point out that HHCG somehow works in a way that is nearly the opposite of traditional homeopathic principles... as in you're not actually taking a "like" to cure "like" in the common homeopathic sense (take bit of something that normally causes a rash in order to cure a rash). You're taking a tiny fraction of the "actual" cure (opposite of homeopathic principle). One doctor who did a long video presentation I watched said there was another principle that defines this - it wasn't homeopathic; it started with an "o" but darn if I can remember it.

Has anyone who does homeopathic had their fat loss measured, or measured it with a fat monitor (my personal method)?

I wish they would do studies on this!!!

Anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread, but it's crazy to me that so many millions of people have success with HHCG and nobody will do a complete study that includes body fat measurements and metabolic testing (like Robin W. and others have done with RX).

[pandora174]

Someone asked her about the 23 day thing. Her "theory" is that there is no minimum of time to do the diet for. If it takes you 10 days to lose 10 lbs then why do more time ? She says that the reset of the metabolism happens in P3

[buttah]

Who knows - she may very well be right. And there is value to whatever works for any individual person. I too love hearing about peoples' experience on all topics diet-related and I do use their stories to make many of the "smaller" decisions for myself.

But it cracks me up how many HCG veterans present themselves as medical experts. Anecdotal evidence is not science! Just don't posit science at me if you're not a scientist and haven't done any empirical testing! (Sorry, I'm way too educated not to point that out.)

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by buttah

Who knows - she may very well be right. And there is value to whatever works for any individual person. I too love hearing about peoples' experience on all topics diet-related and I do use their stories to make many of the "smaller" decisions for myself.

But it cracks me up how many HCG veterans present themselves as medical experts. Anecdotal evidence is not science! Just don't posit science at me if you're not a scientist and haven't done any empirical testing! (Sorry, I'm way too educated not to point that out.)

I know you are not talking about me but.......

I in way ever have declared myself an expert. I am just one who has done plan a few times. Actually, a few too many times I just post my experiences for others to think about. I hate that I have remained here because it seems as if I am the perfect example of an "hcg failure" due to my inability to hold to my LDW when done with a round. But on the flip side, I want others to know this NOT the end all and be all that Dr Simeons lays it out to be in his manuscript. Life happens and we screw up!! No harm in admitting that.

And I have never, ever answered any "too technical" questions because that is not me. I just don't understand all that science stuff. When people start posting about Leptin my eyes glaze over as it really is out of my league. So I only post or answer what I can. Or what I have seen advised on other forums, but preface by saying where my info is coming from so people know *I* have not made it up.

I would love more studies done on the homepathic because I think it would be interesting to see. I always lose weight while doing the homeopathic, but am soooo wondering if that is why I cannot hang onto my LDW. Has always been in the back of my mind.

One more thing----When I was talking about those doing a detox round of hcg once a year it was not just those who have used homeopathic. It was for those who have used Rx as well as those who have done rounds with homeopathic. So it was across the board they wanted to do a detox round once a year. Those on Rx can slip up in real life too!!!

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by pandora174

Ok so I follow lots of different HCG sites on facebook. Last night I was reading n HCG coach that has kept the weight off for 10 years ! Over 100 lbs and she is a size 4/6. Hit home for me since I've also lost over 100 lbs & am a size 4-6. She said that for her she eats clean after P2 and does a great P3/P4 and then the carbs start coming back in and then the sugar and next thing the weight comes on.

And she is a coach !! but she also states there are 2 types of hcg dieters. The ones that have 10 to 15 lbs to lose and then maintain perfect because they've had the tools all their lives and then the others. Those that have have food issues all their lives and were obese or very heavy. So how does she maintain ? Well she has an 8 lb rule. Yes she weighs in everyday. If over
2 lbs depends she'll do a correction day (eat high protein, egg day whatever) but her real rule is if she is 8 lbs over - no matter what - she'll do a : "correction round".

She does the homepathic so she gets on the drops for 1 week and does the diet & the weight comes off & then she does a full P3. She says she usually sees herself doing this about 2x per year. When I read it a part of me was a little sad as I could so easily see this happening to me but then darn that that wasn't so bad after all.

Hi pandora

Been following you, and am so proud to see you going back down...I knew that it would come off almost immediately, there is no possible way anyone can truly gain that fast. What a lesson...carbs & alcohol!!!! I don't drink & I KNOW carbs are my issue & downfall!!!

So, she only stays on P2 for one week, seriously? I am on VLCD8 and have lost 11 pounds, am 167.6 this morning, and my allowed weight is lowest 168 for TOPS and need to stop losing Who woulda thought? I was just thinking last night of doing a "trial-test" of starting my FF tomorrow as my last drop day, then on to 2 days FF...then on to JUDDD again. I really can't see staying on P2 for 2 more weeks. I kinda go against the grain with hHCG anyway, and I seem to do okay. I sure wish there was more research on hHCG, to really know what can/cannot be done. And, if she is living proof that it works...what an awesome idea to STAY near goal FOREVER!!! I have always had it in the back of my mind, that if I went up 10 lbs...I would immediately get back on the "juice" (hHCG!), but I had assumed it would take me more than 1 week...surprised me Good to know info...I would love to read up on her philosophies!!!

Have a great Friday!

[buttah]

Dawn, I was NOT talking about you!!!!! Not even one teency little bit. I'm talking about people who charge money and give "professional" advice merely because they've done the diet, etc!!! (Or even people who posit "theories" like "a week is enough, because the 'resetting' goes on in P3.") And believe me, even those people have clear value. But it has to be taken with a grain of salt. We must never mistake what they offer for professional advice.

I view you as a special kind of HCG success story. Just look at you!

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by buttah

Dawn, I was NOT talking about you!!!!! Not even one teency little bit. I'm talking about people who charge money because they've done the diet, etc!!!

I knew that....that was why I was winking