Call to Freedom Using Hunger/Fullness Scale

[adelinesdream]

Any fans out there of Weight Loss Apocalypse? I'm about to embark on my journey to healing and freedom. Healing from a dysfunctional destructive relationship with food that I have had for at least 48 of my 54 years on the earth. I want to be free. I've been on numerous rounds of HHCG and have had a 4 year weight loss journey going from top 298 lbs down to low of 155 lbs. but I keep bouncing up and down from 155 to 175 and even 180 once and I'm sick and tired of it. I want to be free and I know it's gonna take some pain and effort. I am believing for a breakthrough. I know that load days can be fun, but ultimately I don't want to have to see another load day after this round. I don't want to stuff myself silly until I'm repulsed and be focusing on food, wasting far too much of my life coming up with LC substitutes and ways to make food work for me. I want to be able to honor my body and it's design because it is fearfully and wonderfully made. There's a mechanism in my body that I can tap into. It's pretty much a foreign word in our society, it's called HUNGER, actual physical hunger. I want that to be my guide, not calories, not weight, not celebrations, not my mood, my energy level, or the aches and pains in my body. There is freedom I believe. I was frustrated cause my HCG shipment was delayed. I received my weightloss apocalypse book first. I'm reading and re-reading it. Does anyone want to join me on this journey? The book recommends practicing the Hunger Scale Robin developed for two weeks prior to beginning a round. I'm giving it my best shot. It's like learning a foreign language because it's so foreign in our food driven society and in my abundant life. I am tired of sabotaging myself over and over because of emotional eating and telling myself, it's okay cause I can always fall back on another round of hcg. Don't get me wrong HCG is an amazing tool and a means to an end, but not the birth contol of choice to abort my fat cells every time I decide to go back to eating more than my body needs. Certainly what I eat matters. I don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I need to nourish my body with good whole foods and select things that will not over stimulate the leptin in my body--so I lean towards low carb and refrain from sugars and starches because it's what I feel best with, I just don't want to be preoccupied with focusing on the symptom instead of the problem.

Practicing Hunger Scale today 7/31/12

ate breakfast avocado chocolate pudding 6:30 a.m.

had some turkey and swiss with mayo around 10:00

had a larger portion of turkey and swiss with mayo around 11:30 a.m.
then began sipping on a zero vitamin water (comes sweetened with stevia)

It's 1:55 and I'm good so far.

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Adeline...your plan sounds wonderful. I feel the same way...just tired of up & down. Looks as though you are getting your head ready to do this.

I just want to say this...I was 19 lbs. from my goal 6 years ago and hit a BIG plateau...all I could see, think, hear, taste was getting to goal...BUT life got in the way...my MIL, my grandmother, & my 31 y.o. only sibling brother died from Stage 4 brain tumor within 4 months of each other. It started an UPWARD gain for me. Instead of preparing myself to maintain...I obsessed and it got me a 100+ gain. The other day someone asked me how it feels to getting back to where I once had gotten to...and you know I thought about it...I was not grateful and I honestly can hardly remember being there. Well, this time...I am sooooo looking forward to it. I am leaving it in the Lord's hands for strength & courage...something I didn't allow Him to do last time. I am going to take what my body gives me. AND be HAPPY!!!!!! I started at 411, got to 187, gained back to high 291...now 212...I wanna be 175...I have 30-35 lbs. of excess skin to be removed on top of that. So I'm thinking if I end up anywhere below 185...I should embrace it & be thankful...kwim?

Remember to "remember" where you have come from...even if it isn't the ultimate goal...love yourself and what you've done!

HTH

[Arcangela]

I've read it. I think it's brilliant. I've been especially mindful of food and what not when i go out with my friends on Sunday. I'll watch them eat until it hurts (which I used to do too) and as I'm sitting there drinking my coffee or sipping my iced tea, I realize that I'm really not in the least bit hungry. I'm hoping to reach that stage, (after I've completed all of my weight loss) where I can eat whatever I want, but only just enough until I'm no longer hungry.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Crazy PreK Teacher

Adeline...your plan sounds wonderful. I feel the same way...just tired of up & down. Looks as though you are getting your head ready to do this.

I just want to say this...I was 19 lbs. from my goal 6 years ago and hit a BIG plateau...all I could see, think, hear, taste was getting to goal...BUT life got in the way...my MIL, my grandmother, & my 31 y.o. only sibling brother died from Stage 4 brain tumor within 4 months of each other. It started an UPWARD gain for me. Instead of preparing myself to maintain...I obsessed and it got me a 100+ gain. The other day someone asked me how it feels to getting back to where I once had gotten to...and you know I thought about it...I was not grateful and I honestly can hardly remember being there. Well, this time...I am sooooo looking forward to it. I am leaving it in the Lord's hands for strength & courage...something I didn't allow Him to do last time. I am going to take what my body gives me. AND be HAPPY!!!!!! I started at 411, got to 187, gained back to high 291...now 212...I wanna be 175...I have 30-35 lbs. of excess skin to be removed on top of that. So I'm thinking if I end up anywhere below 185...I should embrace it & be thankful...kwim?

Remember to "remember" where you have come from...even if it isn't the ultimate goal...love yourself and what you've done!

HTH

Angela, you are amazing for not giving up! I commend you and for loving and caring for your precious family. Thanks for sharing this journey with me. I know I cannot do it without you and my HCG family. Yes let's look together to addressing the root issue of emotional eating and get off this not so. . . merry-go-round.

Love and HUGS to you!

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Arcangela

I've read it. I think it's brilliant. I've been especially mindful of food and what not when i go out with my friends on Sunday. I'll watch them eat until it hurts (which I used to do too) and as I'm sitting there drinking my coffee or sipping my iced tea, I realize that I'm really not in the least bit hungry. I'm hoping to reach that stage, (after I've completed all of my weight loss) where I can eat whatever I want, but only just enough until I'm no longer hungry.

Angela, what a great goal to look foward to. I just love Robin and her book and her heart to be a world changer and inspire others with her vision. It's great that you no longer do what your friends do and you are mindful and respectful of your body and it's signals. Yes, I think it's brilliant too and so are you for knowing how to follow the book's directions. Cheering you on! It's so nice to meet you.

[minimonkey]

What beautiful words, Adeline!

I'm more or less doing this now, though I haven't read the book. I have read a number of the posts about it, though, and I am familiar with the overall concept.

Can you explain how you plan to do this round differently? Are you planning to eat to hunger during the round, as well as after?

[WannaCaboBody]

I'm in, I bought the book last week but haven't read it yet. Ever since my having my daughter (18 years ago!) I've had weight problems, have lost my weight several times only to regain it. My relationship with food is so unhealthy, something has to stop. Before I started protocol I was noticing that I'm completely out of touch with my internal hunger scale. I could have a 500 calorie breakfast and still be hungry, basically I could eat all day! I want to be done with that part of my life.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

What beautiful words, Adeline!

I'm more or less doing this now, though I haven't read the book. I have read a number of the posts about it, though, and I am familiar with the overall concept.

Can you explain how you plan to do this round differently? Are you planning to eat to hunger during the round, as well as after?

Hi Mini and thanks for your compliment. By the way, I think you are amazing with those muscles you have built. I would love to work on getting muscles on me.

My plan is to do a 2 week practice session of the hunger scale, still do the loading to see how horrible I will feel stuffing myself, though I will not load with sugary starchy stuff, but rather good fats and maybe some not so good fats. I'm not going to use it as an excuse to make my glucose levels go crazy but I will load up on lots of proteins and excellent fats and some good carbs to well beyond full. I also plan to only eat when hungry on the HCG. I do sometimes feel weak more than hungry so I'll address that with some suppliments and see how that goes. I tend to feel my sugar going low, not sure how I'll address that, but I may break my meals up into much smaller ones, like only 1/2 apple and save other half for later etc. Eat half my protein and save the rest for later perhaps eating every 2 hours or so. I did call Robin's office and she's away but I may do a couple of sessions with her. Have you checked out her great videos on Youtube? She comes across, even in her book as not being out to get people's money, but truly caring about people and about bettering our world. She cast a vision regarding life altering changes which will impact all of society and even the world! She sows alot of good seed freely with her articles and free videos and in turn she reaps a harvest of clients and committed followers. Looks like she's changing lives on person at a time. With all the effort you put forth to build and maintain that physique, I know you endure pain. What if together we can endure the temporary pain of addressing our emotional eating issues and reach the other side where there's peace and contentment knowing that we are no longer controled by our appetites but rather our bodies tell us what they need?

Wanna, yes let's join together in our quest for change and breakthrough. I am so sick and tired of doing the same thing and expecting different results. I don't want HCG to be my morning after pill anymore! I have lost and gained hundreds of lbs so many times in my life. I just need a permanent solution. I'm broken and I need to be fixed. I encourage you to read the book. It's wonderful. We can encourage and lift one another up. I can totally identify with a long term battle of the bulge. It's not really the bulge I'm battling, I now realize from reading her book, it's my thinking. It's my mindset. It's how I relate to and the excuses and reasons I give myself to use food for something which it was not intended and the disrespect I allow my body to endure to that end.

[Melloyello]

I've recently been hearing a lot of hype (maybe "buzz" is a better word) about Weight Loss Apocalypse. I have downloaded the book for reading, and I'm hoping to read and finish it soon.

I'll be following this thread - and jumping in when I'm done.

I've heard SO many positive things from the entire plan.

[WannaCaboBody]

I read the first two chapters last night and keep mulling over the concept of eating less and not feeling deprived because we shouldn't be eating so much. The irony is that I'd been contemplating making myself an IOU list of foods I wanted but didn't take while on protocol - strawberry cheesecake, Blue Moon beer, etc - so to change my outlook on eating less as a way of life- honestly, that's a whole paradigm shift for me. Will keep reading tonight, haven't gotten to the scale but they had one briefly in WW.

Jo

[christyb]

I am totally on board with you! I read WLA and have watched almost all of Robin's videos on You Tube. I highly recommend the videos to everyone who hasn't watched them. I liked the book, but I think I've learned even more from the videos. Watching people with similar issues struggle through them and listening to Robin's advice has been so helpful for me.

I am in P3 of my first round of HCG. Friday starts P4 for me. I am doing RX through an absolutely wonderful doctor. However, the one thing I think is missing in the way his office approaches the plan is the emotional component that Robin addresses. I plan to talk to him about this because I've become quite passionate about it. My eyes have been opened and I can see how embracing such a simple concept could help so many people!

I am working on the hunger scale. I try to only eat when hungry and stop when not. I don't think I've mastered it yet, though. Years of overeating have definitely done a number on me! Sometimes I don't think I'm eating enough. I think that I'm done because I don't feel hunger anymore, but then I'm hungry in 30-60 minutes and that doesn't seem right. I've only overdone it a couple of times in the past 2.5 weeks.

One thing I've felt confused about is all the talk about eating to BMR and not locking yourself into such low calories or you'll be stuck only eating x amount of calories for life. I don't know if this is true or not. My experience, so far, has been that while eating to hunger I have stabilized perfectly. I haven't gone more than 1-1.5 pounds over or under LDW. I have no idea how many calories I'm eating a day, though. A week or so ago I went away for 5 days and didn't take my scale (scary!!). I ate to hunger and had whatever I wanted (minus sugar and starch because I"m in P3) and I was my exact LDW when I got home.

I'm very curious how this will all work when I start adding in sugars and starches. I want to trust the process, but it is scary.

Here's the other thing that is confusing to me. Before HCG, back in 2010, I did Low Carb for 6 months. During that time I lost 60 pounds. I kept it off for a while, but it eventually all came back (to the exact same weight! talk about set-points!). Since I've been in P3 I've been eating a very similar diet to what I did back then. So why is my weight staying so stable, when if I ate like this before I lost weight? And back then I was still eating very emotionally, overeating on low carb foods. And losing? And now I'm eating to hunger, much less and staying the same. Very weird.

And last week when I was at the doctor's office my weight was the same, but they said I had lost water weight and gained 1.6 pounds of fat back. So what does that mean? The nurse was concerned that it meant I wasn't eating enough calories. How do I reconcile that with WLA?

I'm considering trying to do some phone counseling with Robin if she has availability.

Sorry to ramble on, but this is everything that has been on my mind in the past few weeks and I'm happy to talk about it with others who are trying to follow the same path.

For the first time in a long time I have real hope of changing my life! Looking forward to this conversation!!

[minimonkey]

Thanks for your lovely compliments, Adeline! The avatar picture is a bit old, and I am happy to say that I have built some significant upper body muscle mass since it was taken ...

I am, however, also dealing with a horrible rebound gain after two disastrous p3 rounds. I am fighting some major fluid retention and fat gain at the moment. I didn't listen to my hunger at all in p2, I simply over-rode it and carried on pushing myself, and my body was so depleted when I entered p3 that I was physically ravenous, and my weight shot up at an almost impossible rate despite a totally clean p3. So, my challenge is a bit different, perhaps... but it all boils down to honoring true hunger, I think.

I'll be following this thread with interest, hoping you ladies find some answers!

I'm on another p2, now, but I am doing it differently than before. I'm rogue -- but this time I am eating regularly, small meals, and trying to eat when I really am hungry -- I'm planning to keep working out throughout the round, and that does mean I will have to eat more than 500 calories a day ... I know this. I'm trying to attend to my hunger and energy levels, and aiming for roughly 1000 calories a day. (I've done rounds at this calorie level before, and had good losses, so I know it is possible for me.)

My goal, this time, is not to let my body reach the point of depletion that I hit before ... and then to add food and calories very, very slowly when I transition off p2.... tiny, incremental increases (bodybuilders call this 'reverse dieting')

So, I am trying to really attend to my hunger NOW, during the round, and pay attention to when my body is genuinely needing to eat. In rounds past, I've just bullied through the hunger, and that has backfired badly for me. I've been ravenous in p3 every time I've tried it -- though the last two rounds have been the worst in that regard. Once I start eating, I am hit with out of control hunger for a while. (This is a very common thing with bodybuilders/physique competitors -- I learned a lot reading about the cycle that people go through post-competition.)

I'm really hoping that by honoring my hunger this time, I can avoid the bad rebound. When I over-ride hunger too much, my body responds with a raging, physical imperative to EAT.

Interestingly, I'm not an emotional eater, generally speaking. But I am still having a hard time knowing how to respond to hunger signals -- how to get, and maintain, the losses that I desire, and still allow my body to build muscle and strength.

I'll be reading along with all of you, and hoping we all find some answers!

[minimonkey]

Christy -- in all my crazy experimenting, I've noticed something -- my body doesn't respond well to low-carb anymore (whereas it used to be the seemingly-perfect WOE for me, for many years.) Not only do I not lose on it, I can gain on it something fierce, as evidenced by the recent, disastrous p3s.... and if I go too low on the carbs, I actually feel physically terrible (whereas I used to feel my best when deeply in ketosis.)

This would probably be very depressing except for this next part.... I can now tolerate carbs MUCH better than I once could, and they actually satisfy me very well and give me good, sustained energy. I used to crash badly if I ate them.

I don't know if it was the hcg/hhcg that caused the change (I've done both) -- or if it is something else that is responsible -- but it seems I am no longer insulin resistant as I once was ... and that is a blessing, I think.

I'm throwing this out there because there are other multiple-rounders who are noticing something similar, and I am wondering if perhaps this applies more widely than just to me... who knows?

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by christyb

I am totally on board with you! I read WLA and have watched almost all of Robin's videos on You Tube. I highly recommend the videos to everyone who hasn't watched them. I liked the book, but I think I've learned even more from the videos. Watching people with similar issues struggle through them and listening to Robin's advice has been so helpful for me.

I am in P3 of my first round of HCG. Friday starts P4 for me. I am doing RX through an absolutely wonderful doctor. However, the one thing I think is missing in the way his office approaches the plan is the emotional component that Robin addresses. I plan to talk to him about this because I've become quite passionate about it. My eyes have been opened and I can see how embracing such a simple concept could help so many people!

I am working on the hunger scale. I try to only eat when hungry and stop when not. I don't think I've mastered it yet, though. Years of overeating have definitely done a number on me! Sometimes I don't think I'm eating enough. I think that I'm done because I don't feel hunger anymore, but then I'm hungry in 30-60 minutes and that doesn't seem right. I've only overdone it a couple of times in the past 2.5 weeks.

One thing I've felt confused about is all the talk about eating to BMR and not locking yourself into such low calories or you'll be stuck only eating x amount of calories for life. I don't know if this is true or not. My experience, so far, has been that while eating to hunger I have stabilized perfectly. I haven't gone more than 1-1.5 pounds over or under LDW. I have no idea how many calories I'm eating a day, though. A week or so ago I went away for 5 days and didn't take my scale (scary!!). I ate to hunger and had whatever I wanted (minus sugar and starch because I"m in P3) and I was my exact LDW when I got home.

I'm very curious how this will all work when I start adding in sugars and starches. I want to trust the process, but it is scary.

Here's the other thing that is confusing to me. Before HCG, back in 2010, I did Low Carb for 6 months. During that time I lost 60 pounds. I kept it off for a while, but it eventually all came back (to the exact same weight! talk about set-points!). Since I've been in P3 I've been eating a very similar diet to what I did back then. So why is my weight staying so stable, when if I ate like this before I lost weight? And back then I was still eating very emotionally, overeating on low carb foods. And losing? And now I'm eating to hunger, much less and staying the same. Very weird.

And last week when I was at the doctor's office my weight was the same, but they said I had lost water weight and gained 1.6 pounds of fat back. So what does that mean? The nurse was concerned that it meant I wasn't eating enough calories. How do I reconcile that with WLA?

I'm considering trying to do some phone counseling with Robin if she has availability.

Sorry to ramble on, but this is everything that has been on my mind in the past few weeks and I'm happy to talk about it with others who are trying to follow the same path.

For the first time in a long time I have real hope of changing my life! Looking forward to this conversation!!

Christy, I love the book and the videos even more as well! I'm visual and it's so nice to connect a face and voice with real life situations related to WLA. So glad you found an awesome doc--I'm sure it make a HUGE difference. I sent for my RXHCG myself and did my first injection this morning. I'm on my first load day. And because I was practicing the "HUNGER GAME SCALE". It's repulsive to me to have to eat so much with load--so I"m at least trying to make it healthy fats. I had a huge 4 egg veggie and cheese omlete cooked in CO with two pieces of sprouted toast and avocado chocolate pudding made with xylitol and almond milk and cocoa powder a couple hours later. I'm stuffed to the gills. BLECH. I don't like this feeling. I think it's a marvelous idea to get counseled by Robin. And they do remote counseling by SKYPE or phone. I talked to her assistant. It's pricey but I'm sure it's soooooooooooo worth it.

[adelinesdream]

QUOTE=minimonkey;15844198]Thanks for your lovely compliments, Adeline! The avatar picture is a bit old, and I am happy to say that I have built some significant upper body muscle mass since it was taken ...

I am, however, also dealing with a horrible rebound gain after two disastrous p3 rounds. I am fighting some major fluid retention and fat gain at the moment. I didn't listen to my hunger at all in p2, I simply over-rode it and carried on pushing myself, and my body was so depleted when I entered p3 that I was physically ravenous, and my weight shot up at an almost impossible rate despite a totally clean p3. So, my challenge is a bit different, perhaps... but it all boils down to honoring true hunger, I think.

I'll be following this thread with interest, hoping you ladies find some answers!

I'm on another p2, now, but I am doing it differently than before. I'm rogue -- but this time I am eating regularly, small meals, and trying to eat when I really am hungry -- I'm planning to keep working out throughout the round, and that does mean I will have to eat more than 500 calories a day ... I know this. I'm trying to attend to my hunger and energy levels, and aiming for roughly 1000 calories a day. (I've done rounds at this calorie level before, and had good losses, so I know it is possible for me.)

My goal, this time, is not to let my body reach the point of depletion that I hit before ... and then to add food and calories very, very slowly when I transition off p2.... tiny, incremental increases (bodybuilders call this 'reverse dieting')

So, I am trying to really attend to my hunger NOW, during the round, and pay attention to when my body is genuinely needing to eat. In rounds past, I've just bullied through the hunger, and that has backfired badly for me. I've been ravenous in p3 every time I've tried it -- though the last two rounds have been the worst in that regard. Once I start eating, I am hit with out of control hunger for a while. (This is a very common thing with bodybuilders/physique competitors -- I learned a lot reading about the cycle that people go through post-competition.)

I'm really hoping that by honoring my hunger this time, I can avoid the bad rebound. When I over-ride hunger too much, my body responds with a raging, physical imperative to EAT.

Interestingly, I'm not an emotional eater, generally speaking. But I am still having a hard time knowing how to respond to hunger signals -- how to get, and maintain, the losses that I desire, and still allow my body to build muscle and strength.

I'll be reading along with all of you, and hoping we all find some answers![/QUOTE]
Mini,

I love your muscles! I want some too Maybe you'll guide me where to start. Perhaps Robin can guide you even with one session??? I know it's pricey. I bet she'd gladly respond to a post on her FB page. I saw on the other thread, which I need to find, I think it's the Weight Loss Apocalypse one, that someone was giving links to her private FB page. She's answering people's questions there. She seems to have a heart to help people and not just for monetary gain--which I love that.

I experienced tremendous weakness and starvation from my round a couple of times ago and I've been falling flat on my face ever since. After my first round (HHCG) I was eating beautifully. Just small amounts, very clean, and dispersed throughout the day. A cheese stick here, some lean turkey or a low carb shake there. I lost that along the way and I think it came when I got too depleted on a round. I got down to 155, but I was ravenouse and weak. I felt aged and gaunt in the face. Well. . . I'd like to get back down there and fit my clothes again, but the right way and for good. FREEDOM!!!!

That's interesting about your carb vs low carb body needs changing with HCG, maybe put it out there in a thread and take a poll. This message board is a good place to get feed back.

[christyb]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Christy -- in all my crazy experimenting, I've noticed something -- my body doesn't respond well to low-carb anymore (whereas it used to be the seemingly-perfect WOE for me, for many years.) Not only do I not lose on it, I can gain on it something fierce, as evidenced by the recent, disastrous p3s.... and if I go too low on the carbs, I actually feel physically terrible (whereas I used to feel my best when deeply in ketosis.)

This would probably be very depressing except for this next part.... I can now tolerate carbs MUCH better than I once could, and they actually satisfy me very well and give me good, sustained energy. I used to crash badly if I ate them.

I don't know if it was the hcg/hhcg that caused the change (I've done both) -- or if it is something else that is responsible -- but it seems I am no longer insulin resistant as I once was ... and that is a blessing, I think.

I'm throwing this out there because there are other multiple-rounders who are noticing something similar, and I am wondering if perhaps this applies more widely than just to me... who knows?

I think this is really, really interesting. And it does give me hope. I had developed insulin resistance which is what led me to low carb. It is hopeful to me that I will be able to eat carbs again without blowing up every time that I do. It seems that this would have something to do with the healing that seems to take place when using HCG.

The years of overeating and dieting and abusing our bodies have done so much damage. I have said to my husband so many times over the years that I wish i could reboot myself. It seems like HCG could be the reboot that I was hoping for. But I also think that doing it without following hunger will lead to the same place that every other diet led to, regain and frustration.

I am feeling incredibly grateful to have found this book and this method!

[christyb]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

Christy, I love the book and the videos even more as well! I'm visual and it's so nice to connect a face and voice with real life situations related to WLA. So glad you found an awesome doc--I'm sure it make a HUGE difference. I sent for my RXHCG myself and did my first injection this morning. I'm on my first load day. And because I was practicing the "HUNGER GAME SCALE". It's repulsive to me to have to eat so much with load--so I"m at least trying to make it healthy fats. I had a huge 4 egg veggie and cheese omlete cooked in CO with two pieces of sprouted toast and avocado chocolate pudding made with xylitol and almond milk and cocoa powder a couple hours later. I'm stuffed to the gills. BLECH. I don't like this feeling. I think it's a marvelous idea to get counseled by Robin. And they do remote counseling by SKYPE or phone. I talked to her assistant. It's pricey but I'm sure it's soooooooooooo worth it.

Can you tell me how much? I was wanting to find out.

I hope your load goes well. It is hard to force feed. Especially when you've been working on learning hunger! But it will be worth it!

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by christyb

Can you tell me how much? I was wanting to find out.

I hope your load goes well. It is hard to force feed. Especially when you've been working on learning hunger! But it will be worth it!

Her assistant told me she thought it would be $100 for a session but I'm not sure how long the session even is, I thought I heard her say an hour or maybe an hour and a half, not sure. you can go online to her website and fill in a form and her assistant will call you.

Yes I'm force feeding. I didn't even want to, but once you start going in that direction you see how easy it is to do. OY

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by WannaCaboBody

I read the first two chapters last night and keep mulling over the concept of eating less and not feeling deprived because we shouldn't be eating so much. The irony is that I'd been contemplating making myself an IOU list of foods I wanted but didn't take while on protocol - strawberry cheesecake, Blue Moon beer, etc - so to change my outlook on eating less as a way of life- honestly, that's a whole paradigm shift for me. Will keep reading tonight, haven't gotten to the scale but they had one briefly in WW.

Jo

Hi Jo, I know we tend to have a wish list of missed foods, and I think it's okay to have them to an extent, I guess it's the hunger/fullness and portions we eat that make the difference. Also she says in her book that there are certain foods like sugars and starches that overstimulate leptin which cause issues as well. The first step is getting in touch with your "real" hunger and learning to distinguish between that and head hunger and emotional hunger. She sermises that while on HCG is the best time to do that and how we respond while on HCG reveals if we truly have an emotional eating issue. For me, I already know I do. I have proven it over and over. Keep reading and check out her videos on Youtube, they are incredibly informative. Meantime I'll quote William Wallace and shout, "FREEDOM"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (who cares if I suck at punctuation I like to break rules)

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Melloyello

I've recently been hearing a lot of hype (maybe "buzz" is a better word) about Weight Loss Apocalypse. I have downloaded the book for reading, and I'm hoping to read and finish it soon.

I'll be following this thread - and jumping in when I'm done.

I've heard SO many positive things from the entire plan.

Hi Mello,

Welcome aboard and so nice to meet ya! Please chime in as you please. As my belly aches and I'm feeling yucky in my load I'm knowing I really want what Robin says I can have. It might be like birthing a baby, painful, but it can be had if I'm willing to pay the price.

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

I haven't read the book, but have seen some videos...very enlightening. I was just wondering how she feels about the loading days. I don't do big "loads", just high fat & maybe a treat that I miss. The 1st load I lost D1, and gained 1 on D2...the 2nd load, I lost .2 D1, and STS on D2. I imagine she prolly doesn't really favor them?? Or is she "by the book"?

[dbunny]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Christy -- in all my crazy experimenting, I've noticed something -- my body doesn't respond well to low-carb anymore (whereas it used to be the seemingly-perfect WOE for me, for many years.) Not only do I not lose on it, I can gain on it something fierce, as evidenced by the recent, disastrous p3s.... and if I go too low on the carbs, I actually feel physically terrible (whereas I used to feel my best when deeply in ketosis.)

This would probably be very depressing except for this next part.... I can now tolerate carbs MUCH better than I once could, and they actually satisfy me very well and give me good, sustained energy. I used to crash badly if I ate them.

I don't know if it was the hcg/hhcg that caused the change (I've done both) -- or if it is something else that is responsible -- but it seems I am no longer insulin resistant as I once was ... and that is a blessing, I think.

I'm throwing this out there because there are other multiple-rounders who are noticing something similar, and I am wondering if perhaps this applies more widely than just to me... who knows?

Mini~ have you ever tried PSMF? Kinda like P2, but with more protein and veggies, and no Hcg. I did PSMF a while back and lost 20 pounds. Never gained it back, either.. then moved to Atkins and lost 30 pounds. Over the next several years, I lost and regained that same 30 pounds till Hcg. The reason I ask is cause it is pretty commonly used by weight lifters to cut weight.

Going into P3 this weekend and am going to try this eat to hunger method. I can eat alot, past full, and continue on.. completely emotional, but perhaps I can learn to moderate myself. When in P2, I am strict and in control. I would like to continue to feel that way, instead of giving in to my emotions.

[christyb]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

Hi Jo, I know we tend to have a wish list of missed foods, and I think it's okay to have them to an extent, I guess it's the hunger/fullness and portions we eat that make the difference. Also she says in her book that there are certain foods like sugars and starches that overstimulate leptin which cause issues as well. The first step is getting in touch with your "real" hunger and learning to distinguish between that and head hunger and emotional hunger. She sermises that while on HCG is the best time to do that and how we respond while on HCG reveals if we truly have an emotional eating issue. For me, I already know I do. I have proven it over and over. Keep reading and check out her videos on Youtube, they are incredibly informative. Meantime I'll quote William Wallace and shout, "FREEDOM"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (who cares if I suck at punctuation I like to break rules)

I totally think it's ok to have a wishlist of foods! Eventually you'll be able to eat all of those thing as long as you're eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're not. One thing I have really taken away from Robin's work is to not demonize food or certain foods. I realized that I have had a tendency to think about foods as "bad" or "good." After doing low carb for a while I started really fearing carbs to the point that I was worrying about my kids eating them and limiting their intake, probably too much. I want so badly for them to not have the issues with food that I do. Knowing that once I get through the protocol I'll be able to just eat like a "normal" person and that no foods will be off limits kind of takes away food's power. KWIM?

Originally Posted by Crazy PreK Teacher

I haven't read the book, but have seen some videos...very enlightening. I was just wondering how she feels about the loading days. I don't do big "loads", just high fat & maybe a treat that I miss. The 1st load I lost D1, and gained 1 on D2...the 2nd load, I lost .2 D1, and STS on D2. I imagine she prolly doesn't really favor them?? Or is she "by the book"?

She seems to be pretty by the book on load days. I have seen her kind of use the loading days as a lesson in being too full and how yucky it makes you feel.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Crazy PreK Teacher

I haven't read the book, but have seen some videos...very enlightening. I was just wondering how she feels about the loading days. I don't do big "loads", just high fat & maybe a treat that I miss. The 1st load I lost D1, and gained 1 on D2...the 2nd load, I lost .2 D1, and STS on D2. I imagine she prolly doesn't really favor them?? Or is she "by the book"?

I just think Robin wants us to practice the hunger scale for 2 weeks before loading, then notice how awful we feel when we load and see that on the hunger scale. Once we are on P2 then we should be able to see when emotional eating rears its ugly head by how we decide to cheat and how addicted to weighing every day we are. Then once we are in P3 that we overeat and all those emotional eating issues need to be addressed. I know it's not a magic bullet, but I want to work on this area of my life. I also would often just want to eat on P2 not because I was hungry but because I felt weak and I'm incorporating potassium and magnesium this time around to help me with that. I'll eat my 500 calories as prescribed, but I want to be at peace with my relationship to food when I'm on P3 and P4 and stabilize for real this time. I see that I have been using HCG like a morning after pill. I was almost freaking out when my supply was not arriving. It showed me that I was addicted to knowing I could take the weight off with another round. this time I'm doing rxhcg injections so I'll see if there's any difference there, but mainly the issues I'm convinced is in my emotions and then I get on a vicious cycle once I retintroduce foods that tend to overstimulate my leptin.

"After the second phase is over, when sugar and starch foods are allowed more freely, even more excuses are used to justify over-consumption. without the previously enjoyed weight loss, the motivation to eat less is hard to find. Without rules, participants find weighting themselves meaningless, and even punishing, especially if they know full well they're eating excessively and regaining fat weight. "

"Participants who find emotional eating gratifying will test their eating freedom, without any value given to their body's hormonal system and the physical consequences. Not only do they experience physical harm, but also immediate and aggressive fat gain. Many justify this behavior knowing that within weeks they can go back to anotehr protocal to lose (again) whatever weight they've gained."

"Attempting the protocol without paying attention to reasons for emotional over-eating, and finding ways to prevent it, can perpetuate and aggravate the cycle of extreme restriction and obsessive weighing--to the unrestrictive gluttony and disregard for the body, for this reason many find that following subsequent protocols become more difficult, even though the parameters are exactly the same as the first." Robin Phipps Woodal

[christyb]

I'm technically on P4 as of tomorrow. I feel completely unprepared. I have no idea what to eat and I'm feeling a bit nervous. Of course, 3 weeks ago I felt this way about P3. I just couldn't see how I could eat and not gain everything back. But I didn't gain anything back. I just don't understand how I can add back in sugars and starches and not gain. I plan to keep eating to hunger.

When Robin talks about carbs and sugars being powerful what does she really mean? Do they cause your leptin to go up more quickly and then fall more quickly? How do you eat them and stay full? I wish I had a better handle on how all of this works in the body.

[Felina]

I watched most of Robins videos and read her book.

Everything makes so much sense to me. Nobody else could ever explain to me why when I was skinny (most of my life) I ate much more food and now that I'm fat I hardly have any appetite. Also my mother who is only about 85 lbs eats constantly, while I averaged about 900 cals a day and continued to gain.

Robins book answers all of that.

I'm doing p2 right now and since I only eat when I'm hungry I'm only getting in around 300 cals per day. I totally intend to eat according to the hunger scale going forward.

I never thought that I was an emotional eater because I don't resort to food when I'm depressed or bored, etc. But Robin helped me realize that I am an emotional eater. You see, very rarely do I get hungry, so when I eat, it's not cuz I'm hungry but it's because I like the particular food thats available. For instance I might be completely not hungry whatsoever but if my husband comes home with some Chinese take out, I'm going to eat until I can't eat anymore just because I love it so much.

My need for food is actually so low and I really don't eat much so I am deficient in several nutrients so my Dr has me on several prescription dietary supplements. That proves that I'm not much of an eater but because I eat (no matter how little) when I'm not hungry I continue to gain.

Using hcg is essential to me to prevent my body from being in starvation mode due to my low calorie intake. The good thing is now that I'm shedding weight, I have been able to become more active and hopefully that will help boost my metabolism so I will be hungrier and eat more healthfully.

[minimonkey]

Following with interest, here!

I'm sort of terrified to be p2ing again, after letting myself get so depleted before -- but I figure if I eat often and really attend to my hunger levels, I should be ok. So far, I have had really low hunger this round, and I find that a huge relief (I've had monumentally hungry rounds in the past!) I'm rogue, and the first week losses were slow (relative to a protocol round) but they are coming, and that is fine with me.

I feel less alone knowing that others have hit that point of terrible depletion even with the hcg ... I think it is largely because I am muscular and active -- even if I cut down on the workouts, or eliminate them altogether, I get majorly dragged out on 500 calories pretty quickly.

[minimonkey]

Ok.. here's my take on muscles...

There are lots of different ways to go about building muscle, and they all work! The main thing is to lift weights in some form or another.

What I did was to start with isometric exercises -- I was working out at home, so I started with the Bar Method, and did the DVDs religiously three or four times a week. (I started with the older Bar Method workouts, "Fat Free" and "Designer Sculpting". I actually prefer the newer workouts, but those old classics have their place too.)

They don't use heavy weights at all -- just light weights (and push ups) for the upper body, and body-weight for everything else -- long sets of tiny, sustained contractions. They look deceptively easy, until you try them! I added in Exhale's Core Fusion dvd after a while, and moved on to the advanced Bar Method series that came out in the last couple of years -- those are tough! I still love my barre workouts

Last year, I decided I loved being sculpted, but that I really wanted to add some more mass and strength to my little frame, so I started lifting heavy. My roommate and I joined forces and bought weight equipment -- basic weight bench, adjustable dumbbells, and basic barbells. I didn't have much of a clue how to use free weights, so I invested in some Cathe Friedrich DVDs, and fell in love with her!

I love her 'slow and heavy' series, and I just started doing a series called the STS system (shock training system) -- it uses 'muscle confusion' to avoid workout plateaus.

I'm also a fan of working out on the rebounder (mini-trampoline) -- I have the Urban Rebounding "Extreme Metabolic Training" series, which is nice mix of cardio, high intensity interval training, circuit training, and so forth. It's tough -- there are some moves I still can't manage without modifying them, and it builds endurance like nobody's business. I definitely recommend waiting until one is in relatively good shape to even attempt this kind of workout, as the injury potential is high, even when one IS in good shape. I think taking care of one's safety is paramount.

I really recommend the Bar Method as a launching point if you haven't worked out in a while, or if weights are new to you -- it's a great way to build some solid muscle base and good endurance, and it doesn't require much of an initial investment -- you need a chair or a barre (a chair is totally fine) and a couple pairs of hand weights ... two pounds is what they recommend to start (I moved to three pounds pretty quickly, and then to five lbs) -- and that's it.

They also get results really, really quickly -- and you get a solid, whole-body workout each time, which is very satisfying. The Exhale series is good, too, but I still prefer the Bar Method to all of the isometric workouts that I have done. (Plus, Burr Leonard is adorable and really a great instructor.) "Change your Body" and "Accelerated Workout" are two of my all time favorites -- they're intermediate level -- definitely challenging enough to start with -- if you are wanting a good place to start, those two workouts would be my recommendation. I still find the advanced workouts pretty tough, even after years of barre work, and I also still enjoy going back and doing the older workouts at times, and really working on getting the form right -- it takes a while to have enough strength to do the exercises correctly, and in that sense, one never really outgrows them.

I could go on and on about this stuff, but I'll leave it there for now. I'm a big fan of working out at home -- I find that I am a lot more likely to do it more regularly that way, and it avoids the expense of joining a gym. I liked going to the gym when I had a membership, but overall, I really prefer to work out on my own timing and my own terms.

[minimonkey]

Felina -- wow! I can't imagine having such a small appetite for any length of time. Maybe I missed this, but what changed when you went from "skinny" to "fat" (your words) -- what event, eating or otherwise, precipitated that change?

I'm actually dumbfounded at the lack of hunger I am experiencing this round... my very first round, I had good hunger suppression for the first part of it (on hhcg) but I let it drag on way too long and got fairly depleted, and then I got too experimental following p3, and was eating to build muscle which also packed on some fat ... and every round since then had been increasingly hard and full of a fair amount of hunger. I've now lost and regained the same 20 lbs three times! The last couple of rounds I did, I rebounded badly -- I'm sure that was because I got way too depleted, and was in the midst of some unbelievable life stress that was physically and emotionally very, very taxing -- and I went into p3 with totally out of control physical hunger.

My muscle to fat ratio is much better than it was when I started, though, since I've taken advantage of the muscle building potential of the regain cycles -- so not all is lost, by any means.

In any event, for some odd reason, this round is like a dream come true -- I'm genuinely NOT hungry, and if anything, I am probably eating more than my hunger dictates. I'm st coming in at about 1000 calories a day, which is my aim (I'm continuing to lift throughout the round) -- I'm terrified of dropping much lower than that, since I do NOT want to repeat that vicious cycle again. I know I can lose at this calorie level with the hhcg... the real trick is figuring out how on earth to stabilize. Traditional p3 does not work for me ... it didn't work after doing protocol, and it didn't work after doing rogue .. so I don't think that is the problem.

I'm taking it one day at a time, and just not stressing if the losses are slow -- (I'm doing hhcg.) I am dearly hoping that if I eat to my hunger during the round, that I will avoid the depletion that has set in the last couple of times.

I'm also over the hump with some of the major stressors, though I do face a pretty challenging semester coming up (teaching at a university, as well as finishing my last year of graduate school in a different discipline.) I have a thesis to finish and defend. Last year, I completed my Master of Fine Arts, and this year, I will complete the MA degree in History and Theory of Contemporary Art, for a dual degree.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Ok.. here's my take on muscles...

There are lots of different ways to go about building muscle, and they all work! The main thing is to lift weights in some form or another.

What I did was to start with isometric exercises -- I was working out at home, so I started with the Bar Method, and did the DVDs religiously three or four times a week. (I started with the older Bar Method workouts, "Fat Free" and "Designer Sculpting". I actually prefer the newer workouts, but those old classics have their place too.)

They don't use heavy weights at all -- just light weights (and push ups) for the upper body, and body-weight for everything else -- long sets of tiny, sustained contractions. They look deceptively easy, until you try them! I added in Exhale's Core Fusion dvd after a while, and moved on to the advanced Bar Method series that came out in the last couple of years -- those are tough! I still love my barre workouts

Last year, I decided I loved being sculpted, but that I really wanted to add some more mass and strength to my little frame, so I started lifting heavy. My roommate and I joined forces and bought weight equipment -- basic weight bench, adjustable dumbbells, and basic barbells. I didn't have much of a clue how to use free weights, so I invested in some Cathe Friedrich DVDs, and fell in love with her!

I love her 'slow and heavy' series, and I just started doing a series called the STS system (shock training system) -- it uses 'muscle confusion' to avoid workout plateaus.

I'm also a fan of working out on the rebounder (mini-trampoline) -- I have the Urban Rebounding "Extreme Metabolic Training" series, which is nice mix of cardio, high intensity interval training, circuit training, and so forth. It's tough -- there are some moves I still can't manage without modifying them, and it builds endurance like nobody's business. I definitely recommend waiting until one is in relatively good shape to even attempt this kind of workout, as the injury potential is high, even when one IS in good shape. I think taking care of one's safety is paramount.

I really recommend the Bar Method as a launching point if you haven't worked out in a while, or if weights are new to you -- it's a great way to build some solid muscle base and good endurance, and it doesn't require much of an initial investment -- you need a chair or a barre (a chair is totally fine) and a couple pairs of hand weights ... two pounds is what they recommend to start (I moved to three pounds pretty quickly, and then to five lbs) -- and that's it.

They also get results really, really quickly -- and you get a solid, whole-body workout each time, which is very satisfying. The Exhale series is good, too, but I still prefer the Bar Method to all of the isometric workouts that I have done. (Plus, Burr Leonard is adorable and really a great instructor.) "Change your Body" and "Accelerated Workout" are two of my all time favorites -- they're intermediate level -- definitely challenging enough to start with -- if you are wanting a good place to start, those two workouts would be my recommendation. I still find the advanced workouts pretty tough, even after years of barre work, and I also still enjoy going back and doing the older workouts at times, and really working on getting the form right -- it takes a while to have enough strength to do the exercises correctly, and in that sense, one never really outgrows them.

I could go on and on about this stuff, but I'll leave it there for now. I'm a big fan of working out at home -- I find that I am a lot more likely to do it more regularly that way, and it avoids the expense of joining a gym. I liked going to the gym when I had a membership, but overall, I really prefer to work out on my own timing and my own terms.

Oh my, thank you mini for sharing your wealth of knowledge is Barr a certain type of workout or the name of a person that created this method and trains you on it? I am completely new at the whole thing. I guess it's not good to start during P2 which I begin tomorrow, but perhaps it would be good in P3? I know I need something to build strength as I am getting older and have a very sedentary job at a desk in front of a computer all day.