Call to Freedom Using Hunger/Fullness Scale

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Following with interest, here!

I'm sort of terrified to be p2ing again, after letting myself get so depleted before -- but I figure if I eat often and really attend to my hunger levels, I should be ok. So far, I have had really low hunger this round, and I find that a huge relief (I've had monumentally hungry rounds in the past!) I'm rogue, and the first week losses were slow (relative to a protocol round) but they are coming, and that is fine with me.

I feel less alone knowing that others have hit that point of terrible depletion even with the hcg ... I think it is largely because I am muscular and active -- even if I cut down on the workouts, or eliminate them altogether, I get majorly dragged out on 500 calories pretty quickly.

that makes total sense, I get depleated even though I'm not muscular. I'm doing RXHCG for the first time, it's wierd to me not to be putting under my tongue 3 times a day--one shot a day and forget it is strange to get used to. And you are certainly not alone! we're in this together.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Felina

I watched most of Robins videos and read her book.

Everything makes so much sense to me. Nobody else could ever explain to me why when I was skinny (most of my life) I ate much more food and now that I'm fat I hardly have any appetite. Also my mother who is only about 85 lbs eats constantly, while I averaged about 900 cals a day and continued to gain.

Robins book answers all of that.

I'm doing p2 right now and since I only eat when I'm hungry I'm only getting in around 300 cals per day. I totally intend to eat according to the hunger scale going forward.

I never thought that I was an emotional eater because I don't resort to food when I'm depressed or bored, etc. But Robin helped me realize that I am an emotional eater. You see, very rarely do I get hungry, so when I eat, it's not cuz I'm hungry but it's because I like the particular food thats available. For instance I might be completely not hungry whatsoever but if my husband comes home with some Chinese take out, I'm going to eat until I can't eat anymore just because I love it so much.

My need for food is actually so low and I really don't eat much so I am deficient in several nutrients so my Dr has me on several prescription dietary supplements. That proves that I'm not much of an eater but because I eat (no matter how little) when I'm not hungry I continue to gain.

Using hcg is essential to me to prevent my body from being in starvation mode due to my low calorie intake. The good thing is now that I'm shedding weight, I have been able to become more active and hopefully that will help boost my metabolism so I will be hungrier and eat more healthfully.

Hi Felina, so glad you found the answer. I feel that I have found the answer to my struggle as well. Now if I can only follow directions. I've been able to do it in other areas of my life, but food has been an issue. I need very very little food to sustain my body, seriously. I'm right with you. I like to eat. When it's there, I want to eat it. the smell, the appearance, it's appetizing and my mouth waters and I want to dive into it. I was never skinny except maybe for a year here or there, maybe for a month or two after dieting until I went back into my vicious cycle. I've been doing it since I was 6, as I age it is more and more destructive. The body doesn't bounce back as well the older we get. I have lots of battle scars from abusing this body with food.

"Even so, if gluttony and dysfunction continue as the primary model we use to eat, no diet will work to reduce obesity or maintain any amount of fat loss." Robin Phipps Woodall

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by christyb

I'm technically on P4 as of tomorrow. I feel completely unprepared. I have no idea what to eat and I'm feeling a bit nervous. Of course, 3 weeks ago I felt this way about P3. I just couldn't see how I could eat and not gain everything back. But I didn't gain anything back. I just don't understand how I can add back in sugars and starches and not gain. I plan to keep eating to hunger.

When Robin talks about carbs and sugars being powerful what does she really mean? Do they cause your leptin to go up more quickly and then fall more quickly? How do you eat them and stay full? I wish I had a better handle on how all of this works in the body.

do you have the book? also there are great videos on youtube. I believe she said that sugars and starches over stimulate our leptin production. I'll need to locate that in the book, not sure if I read it or heard it on the video.

[christyb]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

do you have the book? also there are great videos on youtube. I believe she said that sugars and starches over stimulate our leptin production. I'll need to locate that in the book, not sure if I read it or heard it on the video.

I have the book and I should have looked this up last night. I was laying in bed with my phone rewatching a bunch of You Tube videos. I've watched all of her videos and I think she's addressed that, but I can't remember which one. But watching videos last night gave me more confidence in the protocol and just trusting it.

And get this. . . I got up today all ready to start P4. Stepped on the scale and it was dead (just put a new battery in a month or two ago). Changed the battery anyways. . . still dead. I'm thinking it might be a nudge from God to just trust. But instead I ask my DH to pick me up a scale. So he got me a new one, brought it home and it doesn't work either!!! LOL! I don't know what to think! I want to trust my hunger and they method, but Dr. Simeons put so much emphasis on the scale. I am only eating when I'm hungry, but adding in the sugars and starches and knowing that they are more powerful is scary!

I had a breaded chicken patty at lunch and a little bit of pasta with my dinner. Those were my only splurges so far. I'm going to ease into this.

So the question is. . . when I return the scale tomorrow do I buy a new one?

[Felina]

Felina -- wow! I can't imagine having such a small appetite for any length of time. Maybe I missed this, but what changed when you went from "skinny" to "fat" (your words) -- what event, eating or otherwise, precipitated that change?

Mini, I wish I knew what went wrong. I'm 5'3" and used to weigh between 103 and 115 with no problems. When I started to gain, it was so crazy. I gained 50 lbs in three months! I had to keep buying new clothes. I settled at size 16-18 for awhile, then over time I gained slowly until I reached about 250 lbs.

I went to so many Drs and told them how I eat, but I'm certain that none of them believed me. They always said calories in, calories out. Exercise and eat less. I felt so sorry for myself. How could I possibly eat less?

My SIL lost 20 lbs in one month eating a 1200 calorie diet and that's all she needed to lose. If I ate 1200 calories a day I swear I would gain 20 lbs. I gain so easily. If you read the post I started the other day you will see that I gained 13.5 pounds loading for two days so I still havent netted a loss for this p2 round. Nobody gains like me. I wish someone would figure it out.

Even though I don't know how or why it started, I feel that at least now I have some answers after reading Robins book. Remember the leptin illustration? The skinny person can eat two apples and be just fine, while the fat person can eat just half an apple and maybe gain.

Yes, I used to eat like a normal person even indulging occasionally and I never had to worry about my weight. Now that I'm overweight, I hardly have an appetite. My poor body is trying to tell me that I don't need to eat much. It has plenty of excess fat to live off of. I'm going to listen to it and see how that goes.

[Felina]

christyb, if it were me I would get a new scale. Following p2 protocol, you don't really need one because if you are following the protocol correctly there's really nothing to correct. But, during p3 and p4, you have to be so careful not to gain and you must do a correction day as soon as you are out of your window.

IMHO The hunger scale should work but I would want that scale just to be sure

[christyb]

Originally Posted by Felina

christyb, if it were me I would get a new scale. Following p2 protocol, you don't really need one because if you are following the protocol correctly there's really nothing to correct. But, during p3 and p4, you have to be so careful not to gain and you must do a correction day as soon as you are out of your window.

IMHO The hunger scale should work but I would want that scale just to be sure

That's kind of how I feel, too. I don't think I'll be able to stand it not getting a scale! I'm really struggling with this whole thing tonight. I am paying close attention to whether I'm hungry or not, but I find myself constantly judging the hunger (I "shouldn't" be hungry.) If I'm not judging the hunger I'm judging the food. Potato chips have kind of become a thing for me. At the beginning of my P2 I was crying because I wanted to eat chips so badly. That, obviously, was emotionally triggered! However, I still really like chips and have wanted to eat some. This evening when I was hungry I had some chips. I didn't overeat and actually at something in addition because I was still hungry. A little while ago I was hungry again and I ate some more. I was afraid to eat to many (concerned I already did) and stopped. But right now I'm still hungry. Any other night I would just eat something in response to the hunger, but tonight I'm terrified because I ate the chips.

Does anyone else have these kinds of thoughts and fears while trying to learn this method? I hope I can get to the point where it just becomes second nature and I can let go of the fear and judgement, you know?

Felina, the way you gained weight sounds a lot like it was for me. But I know now that mine was my thyroid. Surely your doctors have already checked that on you. It is curious that they haven't found a reason for such a fast weight gain. I hope HCG and this method will heal whatever is broken!

[minimonkey]

Christy -- your scale fiasco made me laugh -- maybe it really WAS a sign from G-d to get away from the darn thing!

Felina -- Whoa, that is quite a tale! Have you seen a truly good doctor, and had comprehensive endocrine testing done? That really sounds like something changed dramatically in your body. Lots of different things can cause the metabolism to crash -- and it sounds like yours most certainly did! (I get fuming mad when I hear about yet another doctor disbelieving yet another patient ... it happens all the time, and it is just SO wrong!) I'm guessing that a good sleuth of a doctor could pinpoint the problem.

This is clearly not a "calories in/calories out" situation -- as you said, how could you eat any less? You're already clinically malnourished in terms of vitamin deficiencies. I don't think the answer is to eat any less, honestly -- lack of appetite notwithstanding. I think there's some underlying issue that needs correcting.

Do you have any other symptoms besides weight gain? I ask, because it might shed some light on which direction to go in terms of testing.

I've been through the mill with my poor system -- I had undiagnosed Lyme disease for many years, and that did a lot of damage to my metabolism, though I think a lot of that got fixed when I was treated for it. (Lyme can down-regulate the metabolism something fierce -- I have a friend who put on over 100 lbs in about a year from it).

I don't mean to sound overly preachy, and sorry if it comes off that way -- I just think you have been shortchanged badly by the doctors that you have seen, and that your body is suffering from the consequences of a missed diagnosis.

On a positive note, though, it does look as if the hcg is working for you! I'm sorry to hear about the big loading gain -- I read that thread.... and as you know, there are others who have huge loading gains like that too. It isn't the norm, but it isn't unheard of, either.

[Felina]

One time my mother even came to the Dr with me and she insisted on talking to the head administrator saying, "nobody believes her, you have to do something. You should run every test because this is an anomaly." We'll, nothing ever came of it. But she did vouch for me because she has lived with me for three years and she sees that I don't eat and she told the administrator that she would be dead if she ate like do.

Anyway, My thyroid has been checked a few times with no abnormality but I always hear that there are more extensive thyroid tests that can be done. The only thing that Drs have offered to do for me was bypass surgery. I took the class and decided the bypass wasn't for me. All it does is shrink your stomach so you won't eat so much.

Now that I'm losing weight I'm sure they won't even bother testing me for anything. I came from morbidly obese to overweight, so that's a blessing, but I would just like to be normal.

The only other symptoms I have is the vitamin deficiencies and the weight gave me high blood pressure, acid reflux and knee problems, but all of that is gone now since Hcg has helped me get about 80 lbs off.

I've been researching my symptoms myself and I think I'll ask my Dr to check for PCOS. My hair has really thinned and that's among the symptoms for PCOS. it would be so nice if someone could pinpoint the problem and I could just take a pill and be normal again.

I thought that I might be able to lose a little or at least maintain by doing JUDDD during my last two weeks of p4. That turned out to be a big letdown. On my DD's I had 300-400 cals and not more than 900 cals on the UP's. in the 4 days that I did that, I gained 6 lbs. anybody else would have lost. I'm sure.

At least for now, the hcg works for me.

[minimonkey]

If you have the resources at all, I would seek out a doctor who specializes in endocrine dysfunctions -- someone who works with difficult diagnoses. You might have to pay out of pocket, but I suspect it would be worth doing.

Screening for PCOS sounds like a very good idea.

I definitely think you made the right decision by declining the bypass!! (I can't even imagine that a doc would suggest that, given your situation!) Bypass surgery works for some folks, but it doesn't sound appropriate in your situation at all, at least to me.

I'm very glad that the hcg is helping you so much -- I just hate the idea of you becoming deficient in nutrients and going without any answers, when it seems something is very amiss.

Actually, you are in CA -- where are you? I have a fantastic doc in the Bay Area ... she specializes in just this sort of thing, and doesn't stop testing until she finds an answer. If she is too far away, maybe she could at least refer you the right direction.

Let me know if you are interested in following up on that -- I don't think there's any prohibition against sharing that kind of info here, but just in case, I'll PM you my email if you want to follow up, and I can send you her info that way.

[adelinesdream]

today is my very first VLCD on RXHCG with injections and using the hunger/fullness scale. I think I'm about a 3.5 right now. It's almost 12:30 and I haven't eaten anything just some coffee, water and CALM and a couple of potassium pills. I have some fish, an orange and apple with me. I'm going to run over to the supermarket and pick up a allowed veggie. I don't want to get too low on the hunger scale so I'm listening to my body. I'm loving the ease of the injections. No pain with them. Today's the first day I can work realistically to address emotional eating and learning my signs for hunger and fullness. I wonder if the less you eat, the less you want to eat? I seem to remember that from times I've fasted. I'm at 182 today for a 5 lb gain on loading. I'll report how things go with my eating and not eating in relationship to my hunger/fullness practice.

[adelinesdream]

One of the things I'm remembering that I love about protocol (as I'm reading Robin's story of wanting to go back to eating like a child) is that I love the freedom protocol gives me from the insanity of feeling driven by food cravings! while I was waiting for my latest shipment of HCG I remember the emotional torment I felt over what I considered an intolerable delay. So. . . I would eat over it, to comfort myself. I just wanted something, anything to stop the insanity. I have hope now with her book that if I am willing to choose change, and I know I'm in charge of my "chooser", that I will be willing to tolerate going through some pain to break through the impasses in me to be set free.

It's 1:39 pm and I haven't eaten lunch, breakfast or anything yet. I was hungry there for a while, but after running to the store and returning with an allowed veggie, I'm just not hungry again. I'm not going to eat without being hungry. I squeezed some orange on my fish but placed it back in the fridge. I got my Foreman ready for cooking but I cannot justify eating just cause it's there. So the wait goes on, and I'm fine enjoying reading rather than eating. YES! One victory at a time. "Self control is a muscle, the more you exercise it the stronger it grows" quoting Dani Johnson, my success coach. "If eating's not the problem, then food is not the solution." anonymous (from WLA)

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by christyb

That's kind of how I feel, too. I don't think I'll be able to stand it not getting a scale! I'm really struggling with this whole thing tonight. I am paying close attention to whether I'm hungry or not, but I find myself constantly judging the hunger (I "shouldn't" be hungry.) If I'm not judging the hunger I'm judging the food. Potato chips have kind of become a thing for me. At the beginning of my P2 I was crying because I wanted to eat chips so badly. That, obviously, was emotionally triggered! However, I still really like chips and have wanted to eat some. This evening when I was hungry I had some chips. I didn't overeat and actually at something in addition because I was still hungry. A little while ago I was hungry again and I ate some more. I was afraid to eat to many (concerned I already did) and stopped. But right now I'm still hungry. Any other night I would just eat something in response to the hunger, but tonight I'm terrified because I ate the chips.

Does anyone else have these kinds of thoughts and fears while trying to learn this method? I hope I can get to the point where it just becomes second nature and I can let go of the fear and judgement, you know?

Felina, the way you gained weight sounds a lot like it was for me. But I know now that mine was my thyroid. Surely your doctors have already checked that on you. It is curious that they haven't found a reason for such a fast weight gain. I hope HCG and this method will heal whatever is broken!

christy, I know exactly what you mean, being afraid of certain foods and fearing you will or did eat too much. Allowing our body's communication system of hunger be the guiding force is a challenge after leading a life lead by allowing cravings to be the driving force directing our eating. I think I'm starting to feel hunger again maybe? Or is that just a bubble in my stomach. It's a growl, I'll let it pass and see if any more come. I remember reading on my food addiction bible study site that the founder waits for three growls or grumbles before he eats. Interesting. I also remember another weight loss bible study type program I used to attend that went by hunger and they had another method regarding eating like a thin person. The founder had you put the food on your plate in three sections and slowly taste and eat what you like first and go from favorite to least I think but really allow your taste buds to savor the flavor, even had demonstrated a special way to eat M & M's allowing them to melt on your tongue and then squish against the roof of your mouth letting the melty chocolate ooze out on your tongue and doing that very slowly. No foods were forbidden but eating when not hungry and beyond just barely satisfied was strictly a NO NO.

but christy I think P4 is gradually adding back some starches and sugar. I know if you follow the hunger scale you'll do fine. If you are struggling with that I'll support you.

[adelinesdream]

Its 2:17 pm and I'm now sitting down to eat my first meal of flounder with a bit of fresh orange squeezed on it, kind of marinated since I didn't make it when my hunger departed the first time I started out to. I have 7 grape tomatoes and I salted my fish. My goal is to set out to enjoy each bite so I did try to make it tasty. I'll report how this went. I do have some fruit with me in case I think I need a bit more to eat.

We are supposed to be going to Chick A Fila for supper. We'll see if I'm hungry for that, if not I'll get mine as a take out. I plan to do 3 oz of grilled chicken and salad with no dressing.

[adelinesdream]

Okay so I ate my fish and organic grape tomatoes. the grape tomatoes were not very tastey, they were colored red, but didn't taste ripe. won't buy those again. the fish was pretty good. I'm waiting a few minutes to see if my fullness goes up to a 5 or not which is the neutral zone. "You feel nothing, perfectly comfortable with or without food. Hunger's completely gone with no sense of urgency". I was at a 3 by the time I ate "You're uncomfortable and should've eaten 10 minutes ago. Maybe I was more of a 4 "You're hungry but can wait a bit". My belly is still gurgly like it's empty. I'll wait 5 minutes and see how that goes. If it doesn't improve. I'll do half of an apple slowly one small wedge at a time.

[christyb]

I want to respond to everything you guys have written cause I have a lot of thoughts going through my head. I will come back to that later when I'm not so distracted!

I just had to tell you guys that I did eat some more chips last night ( I was hungry) and something else. And this morning I tried the original dead scale out of habit and IT WORKED! Woo hoo! And GUESS WHAT!?!? I didn't gain! Eating to hunger worked!!

I was .2 over my LDW, so totally fine! It's so exciting to think that I could actually eat what I want, when hungry, and maintain my weight! It feels like a miracle!

Anyhow, I'm just feeling really excited!! Talk to you all later!

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by christyb

I want to respond to everything you guys have written cause I have a lot of thoughts going through my head. I will come back to that later when I'm not so distracted!

I just had to tell you guys that I did eat some more chips last night ( I was hungry) and something else. And this morning I tried the original dead scale out of habit and IT WORKED! Woo hoo! And GUESS WHAT!?!? I didn't gain! Eating to hunger worked!!

I was .2 over my LDW, so totally fine! It's so exciting to think that I could actually eat what I want, when hungry, and maintain my weight! It feels like a miracle!

Anyhow, I'm just feeling really excited!! Talk to you all later!

My Coach says, "Practice is the mother of skill" so let's keep practicing!! HURRAY!!!

[Joyful111]

Felina,

Have you ever tried going gluten free? I ask because I had a similar crazy weight gain complete with barely eating and ending up obese and malnourished. It ended up that gluten was the culprit. There is a common image that people with gluten intolerance or celiac disease lose weight and get very skinny and this is true for the majority, but there is a significant minority that inexplicably gains weight. For me, I honestly felt like my body had lost the ability to do anything with food other than store it as fat.

You might want to give going gluten free a try.

[adelinesdream]

Today is my 2nd VLCD and I lost 4 lbs from my load weight. I'm not focusing on the number as much as really wanting to eat to hungry and stop to just under full. I want to use a bit more spice with my food to enjoy what I do eat instead of getting sick of it and dreading it as time goes. But it dawned on me that I was dosing wrong with my injections. I got too many out of my mix. So my shots were way under the 125 IU I should have been getting. I was going to pitch all my injections, but DH and I decided I would just adjust and inject twice each morning to make up the difference. I'm doing the CALM and the potassium. I'm a bit hungrier than I'd like to be, but that give me more practice on experiencing it. When I realized this morning at church that my numbers were off, I had only had coffee and I realized I got soooooooo hungry I ate half of my apple in small slices. I find myself savoring every bite and enjoying what I'm allotted.

[christyb]

Originally Posted by Felina

One time my mother even came to the Dr with me and she insisted on talking to the head administrator saying, "nobody believes her, you have to do something. You should run every test because this is an anomaly." We'll, nothing ever came of it. But she did vouch for me because she has lived with me for three years and she sees that I don't eat and she told the administrator that she would be dead if she ate like do.

Anyway, My thyroid has been checked a few times with no abnormality but I always hear that there are more extensive thyroid tests that can be done. The only thing that Drs have offered to do for me was bypass surgery. I took the class and decided the bypass wasn't for me. All it does is shrink your stomach so you won't eat so much.

Now that I'm losing weight I'm sure they won't even bother testing me for anything. I came from morbidly obese to overweight, so that's a blessing, but I would just like to be normal.

The only other symptoms I have is the vitamin deficiencies and the weight gave me high blood pressure, acid reflux and knee problems, but all of that is gone now since Hcg has helped me get about 80 lbs off.

I've been researching my symptoms myself and I think I'll ask my Dr to check for PCOS. My hair has really thinned and that's among the symptoms for PCOS. it would be so nice if someone could pinpoint the problem and I could just take a pill and be normal again.

I thought that I might be able to lose a little or at least maintain by doing JUDDD during my last two weeks of p4. That turned out to be a big letdown. On my DD's I had 300-400 cals and not more than 900 cals on the UP's. in the 4 days that I did that, I gained 6 lbs. anybody else would have lost. I'm sure.

At least for now, the hcg works for me.

Oh girl, I feel your pain! I have spent over 15 years going from doctor to doctor trying to find out what was wrong with me. It started when I was 19 with fatigue and I was labeled as having depression. Now I know that it was probably my thyroid. But that label stuck and every doctor I went to (over 20) told me it was in my head and wanted to change my antidepressant or add another. I was finally led to more holistic docs and have found a wonderful one. He doesn't take insurance and that stinks, but it has been so worth it! There are good integrative medical doctors out there who do take insurance. Finding one might really help. But certainly losing weight and the hormonal benefits of HCG have GOT to help! I pray that this is the answer, or at least the beginning of an answer for you. I know how hard it is to struggle like that with your health!

Originally Posted by minimonkey

If you have the resources at all, I would seek out a doctor who specializes in endocrine dysfunctions -- someone who works with difficult diagnoses. You might have to pay out of pocket, but I suspect it would be worth doing.

Screening for PCOS sounds like a very good idea.

I definitely think you made the right decision by declining the bypass!! (I can't even imagine that a doc would suggest that, given your situation!) Bypass surgery works for some folks, but it doesn't sound appropriate in your situation at all, at least to me.

I'm very glad that the hcg is helping you so much -- I just hate the idea of you becoming deficient in nutrients and going without any answers, when it seems something is very amiss.

Actually, you are in CA -- where are you? I have a fantastic doc in the Bay Area ... she specializes in just this sort of thing, and doesn't stop testing until she finds an answer. If she is too far away, maybe she could at least refer you the right direction.

Let me know if you are interested in following up on that -- I don't think there's any prohibition against sharing that kind of info here, but just in case, I'll PM you my email if you want to follow up, and I can send you her info that way.

^^agree with everything Mini said!

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

christy, I know exactly what you mean, being afraid of certain foods and fearing you will or did eat too much. Allowing our body's communication system of hunger be the guiding force is a challenge after leading a life lead by allowing cravings to be the driving force directing our eating. I think I'm starting to feel hunger again maybe? Or is that just a bubble in my stomach. It's a growl, I'll let it pass and see if any more come. I remember reading on my food addiction bible study site that the founder waits for three growls or grumbles before he eats. Interesting. I also remember another weight loss bible study type program I used to attend that went by hunger and they had another method regarding eating like a thin person. The founder had you put the food on your plate in three sections and slowly taste and eat what you like first and go from favorite to least I think but really allow your taste buds to savor the flavor, even had demonstrated a special way to eat M & M's allowing them to melt on your tongue and then squish against the roof of your mouth letting the melty chocolate ooze out on your tongue and doing that very slowly. No foods were forbidden but eating when not hungry and beyond just barely satisfied was strictly a NO NO.

but christy I think P4 is gradually adding back some starches and sugar. I know if you follow the hunger scale you'll do fine. If you are struggling with that I'll support you.

I did the Bible study/weight loss thing your talking about. Some of the premises are the same. But it actually bothered me that she made it such a spiritual issue. Like I was somehow spiritually bankrupt or not a good Christian because of my weight problem. I tried it for a while, but it just wasn't for me.

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

My Coach says, "Practice is the mother of skill" so let's keep practicing!! HURRAY!!!

Today was a pretty good day. I woke up to a nice number on the scale (.2 above LDW again) which makes me feel like I'm listening to my body well. I took my girls to the movies today and I ate popcorn, one of my favorite things. I was hungry when we got there because I hadn't eaten yet (at like 2pm) but I was able to stop when I wasn't hungry anymore.

I would be curious to see some of your hunger patterns. I know it's different between P2 and P3/P4, but it might be helpful for all of us. I am trying not to judge my hunger, but sometimes I get a little confused by it. Like if I am hungry again 1/2 hour-45 minutes after eating is that just normal, or does that mean I should have eaten more the last time?

The last time I was at the doctors my weight was the same, but my fat had gone up a bit since I had finished P2. The nurse said that she thought it was because I wasn't eating enough calories and that was causing my body to hold onto fat (starvation mode?). Do you guys believe that theory? I'm not so sure I do anymore. But in the back of my head I've still got the idea that if I don't eat enough calories now I'm setting myself up to never be able to eat them. Of course, that is totally counter to what Robin teaches. What do you guys think?

[minimonkey]

Christy -- I've heard other people say the same thing about the faith-based weight loss programs, actually -- that they ended up feeling that they were somehow spiritually deficient if they needed to eat, or couldn't lose weight, or what not.

I'm sure it works for some people, but I don't think I'd care to go that route -- I have plenty enough to work on spiritually without throwing my diet dilemmas in the mix.

Adeline -- sounds like you are off to a great start!!

Christy -- I definitely DO believe in starvation mode (for example my 20 lb rebound gain in two weeks!) I think that is a good deal of the reason I did gain so fast, when I started eating again... because I had been starving myself for as long as I had (I did about 9 months on very restricted calories relative to my needs -- don't do this!) This kind of rebound happens to bodybuilders after they compete, and it happens to anorexics who start eating again, too ... I think it also happens to normal dieters, though a lot less is written about that.

Once I started eating again, I defied all the laws of physics (in terms of calories in/calories out) and gained an impossible amount of weight in a very short time. I certainly wasn't bingeing, and I was following a clean p3. I also wasn't eating beyond hunger (but my physical hunger was very high, no doubt as a response to the long term depletion.)

That said, I'm not sure if it applies to you in this situation, or not. Even the best measures of fat/muscle are not foolproof, so I would take that with a grain of salt.

[Felina]

Mini,
thanks for your help. I sent you a message.

Christyb,
yeah, they keep giving me antidepressants too. They dont work probably because I don't need them. I have tried several and I don't notice any difference. I told my Dr that if she was as fat as me, she would be depressed too. She didn't deny that. She even chuckled.

Joyful111,
One Dr had me go gluten-free and I tried it for about two weeks, but didn't notice any difference so the Dr said that must not be the problem. They just keep reverting to calories in, calories out. I guess I could try it again and go maybe a month or so. Actually, since I'm on protocol, I don't have much gluten. I don't always eat my Melba, and when I transition to p3 I won't even have that so now would be a good time. To go GF.


Adelinesdream,
you really are making a good effort to be in tune with your body. I will have to try to be more mindful too. I don't think about eating much. If I don't have to cook for other people, I usually just forget to eat, then all of a sudden it will be late in the day and I'll realize that I'm hungry.

We can do this.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Felina

Mini,
thanks for your help. I sent you a message.

Christyb,
yeah, they keep giving me antidepressants too. They dont work probably because I don't need them. I have tried several and I don't notice any difference. I told my Dr that if she was as fat as me, she would be depressed too. She didn't deny that. She even chuckled.

Joyful111,
One Dr had me go gluten-free and I tried it for about two weeks, but didn't notice any difference so the Dr said that must not be the problem. They just keep reverting to calories in, calories out. I guess I could try it again and go maybe a month or so. Actually, since I'm on protocol, I don't have much gluten. I don't always eat my Melba, and when I transition to p3 I won't even have that so now would be a good time. To go GF.


Adelinesdream,
you really are making a good effort to be in tune with your body. I will have to try to be more mindful too. I don't think about eating much. If I don't have to cook for other people, I usually just forget to eat, then all of a sudden it will be late in the day and I'll realize that I'm hungry.

We can do this.

Felina,

I just finished reading WLA and I'm learning so much! Robin said the more fat we have the more leptin we have in our bodies, so we have hunger much less often. I'm doing my best to learn my body's signal of hunger, sometimes I have bubble and I'm not sure if that's hunger, fullness or nothing

It makes me feel silly! But I'm desperate to learn this new language! I'm doing two injections cause I dosed my hcg wrong. Actually in the book even 100 IU injection is acceptable. That's what I had my first few days. I increased to 125 IU yesterday and today. I'm finding myself getting hungry about every 2 hours or so. I also read I was supposed to load for 3 days not 2, too late now. It says if you don't load properly it can take you a week or two to have your hcg start working on your leptin. I think I understood that.

I am sorry you're struggling with your body, especially after years of having no issues. That would make me depressed. I've been overweight most of my life, with short periods where I lost but didn't keep it off for long. But I hear FREEDOM calling my name and I want to respond with everything I've got. I have been successful in a number areas of my life after years of failure--so I'm going to follow directions (the first rule to success) and keep going from there.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Christy -- I've heard other people say the same thing about the faith-based weight loss programs, actually -- that they ended up feeling that they were somehow spiritually deficient if they needed to eat, or couldn't lose weight, or what not.

I'm sure it works for some people, but I don't think I'd care to go that route -- I have plenty enough to work on spiritually without throwing my diet dilemmas in the mix.

Adeline -- sounds like you are off to a great start!!

Christy -- I definitely DO believe in starvation mode (for example my 20 lb rebound gain in two weeks!) I think that is a good deal of the reason I did gain so fast, when I started eating again... because I had been starving myself for as long as I had (I did about 9 months on very restricted calories relative to my needs -- don't do this!) This kind of rebound happens to bodybuilders after they compete, and it happens to anorexics who start eating again, too ... I think it also happens to normal dieters, though a lot less is written about that.

Once I started eating again, I defied all the laws of physics (in terms of calories in/calories out) and gained an impossible amount of weight in a very short time. I certainly wasn't bingeing, and I was following a clean p3. I also wasn't eating beyond hunger (but my physical hunger was very high, no doubt as a response to the long term depletion.)

That said, I'm not sure if it applies to you in this situation, or not. Even the best measures of fat/muscle are not foolproof, so I would take that with a grain of salt.

Robin was saying that a round of HCG is like running over 700 miles during that time of the round as to how taxing it is to our mitchondria and we need to allow time for rest and homeostasis to occur during Phase 3. I also read I was supposed to load for 3 days instead of 2, oh well too late now. You sound extremely disciplined MINI! WHOAHHHH!!

I decided I was going to make my food taste good this round, so I'd enjoy what I do get to eat so I splurged on a bunch of spices and flavorings today at walmart. I want to try some of the recipes I see on the recipe thread. I know I like phase 2 chili. I've never done eggs successfully?? and there's a recipe for a smoothie with cottage cheese, any input anyone?

[minimonkey]

Yeah, well, the extreme dietary discipline backfired on me really badly, so I don't recommend it! I tried to drop to a body weight that was too low for my musculature, I think, and restricted calories too severely and for too long. I lived much of the last year in a state of constant, gnawing hunger.

I'm still dealing with the after effects of that, and also trying to battle back a Lyme flare up, so I am going to go off the hcg for a bit, and just focus on eating to hunger, and see where my body is in terms of maintenance. I don't want further gains (at all!) but if I need to sit at this place for a while, I will just have to accept that.

I know some of the current weight I am carrying is from inflammation -- some is probably from the Lyme, which is notorious for causing inflammatory gains (I just started treating it herbally, and am hoping for the best!) and some is probably still water retention from starting to eat normally again -- but whatever it is, my rogue round wasn't taking any of it off -- so I am going to relax about trying to lose it right now, and focus on making as many strength, muscle, and health gains as I can.

I've been dieting way too long, and I think I would benefit from taking a break, and letting my metabolism heal -- and I will use this opportunity to really make some progress in the gym!

That said, it is still about understanding and recognizing hunger, and figuring out the best way to satisfy it -- so I will still be following along with you ladies on this journey!

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Yeah, well, the extreme dietary discipline backfired on me really badly, so I don't recommend it! I tried to drop to a body weight that was too low for my musculature, I think, and restricted calories too severely and for too long. I lived much of the last year in a state of constant, gnawing hunger.

I'm still dealing with the after effects of that, and also trying to battle back a Lyme flare up, so I am going to go off the hcg for a bit, and just focus on eating to hunger, and see where my body is in terms of maintenance. I don't want further gains (at all!) but if I need to sit at this place for a while, I will just have to accept that.

I know some of the current weight I am carrying is from inflammation -- some is probably from the Lyme, which is notorious for causing inflammatory gains (I just started treating it herbally, and am hoping for the best!) and some is probably still water retention from starting to eat normally again -- but whatever it is, my rogue round wasn't taking any of it off -- so I am going to relax about trying to lose it right now, and focus on making as many strength, muscle, and health gains as I can.

I've been dieting way too long, and I think I would benefit from taking a break, and letting my metabolism heal -- and I will use this opportunity to really make some progress in the gym!

That said, it is still about understanding and recognizing hunger, and figuring out the best way to satisfy it -- so I will still be following along with you ladies on this journey!

I think you are using wisdom mini in respecting your body and allowing it to heal for a season. Yes please stay with us and let's do this together. I just want to be free to be me. The real me that isn't bound by food, or weight or control but works with how I designed.

[christyb]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

Felina,

I just finished reading WLA and I'm learning so much! Robin said the more fat we have the more leptin we have in our bodies, so we have hunger much less often. I'm doing my best to learn my body's signal of hunger, sometimes I have bubble and I'm not sure if that's hunger, fullness or nothing

It makes me feel silly! But I'm desperate to learn this new language! I'm doing two injections cause I dosed my hcg wrong. Actually in the book even 100 IU injection is acceptable. That's what I had my first few days. I increased to 125 IU yesterday and today. I'm finding myself getting hungry about every 2 hours or so. I also read I was supposed to load for 3 days not 2, too late now. It says if you don't load properly it can take you a week or two to have your hcg start working on your leptin. I think I understood that.

I am sorry you're struggling with your body, especially after years of having no issues. That would make me depressed. I've been overweight most of my life, with short periods where I lost but didn't keep it off for long. But I hear FREEDOM calling my name and I want to respond with everything I've got. I have been successful in a number areas of my life after years of failure--so I'm going to follow directions (the first rule to success) and keep going from there.

Were you feeling hungry the first couple of days? Sometimes if you're hungry it means your dose is too high. That said, I was hungry for 4 days or so. It wasn't fun and I was so worried that something was going wrong. But it got a lot better.

I loaded for 3 days. That's what my doctor recommends. I thought I did well with it, though I'm wondering now if I had too much sugar or carbs maybe? After loading for three days you would think I wouldn't have had any hunger, but I did. I hope that isn't the case in my next round!

I had to switch to the new scale today, so it makes my weight higher. But with the adjustment I'm still in my window. What a pain! Following hunger seems to be working like it's supposed to. But honestly, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I'm still worried a lot about not eating enough calories. It's really hard to get past the old mentality that I've been obsessing over for so long.

My mom is coming tomorrow to stay for a week. It will be hard. Her eating (like mine was) is totally out of control. She's already planning which restaurants to go to etc. So this will be a real test of the Mind Body method! Pray for me!

[adelinesdream]

Hi Christy, You are doing sooooooooooooo well. I'm so proud of you. Please pat yourself on the back for me and give yourself and 'ata boy'!!!

My dosage was probably about 100 IU the first 3 days because it took that long for me to realize I had diluted with ML too much water. I wasn't extremely hungry actually. Funny I also read in WLA that 100IU can also be appropriate.

I have decided I'm going to enjoy the food I do get on this round. I splurged on a bunch of spices. I made bison chili this morning. I followed a recipe in the recipe thread. It came out very yummy. I used fire roasted tomatoes and some onion spices and the bison. I finished cooking it in a small crockpot at work and had half a portion for lunch cause I stopped when satisfied. This "Hunger game" is turning out to be pretty fun. Regarding being afraid of too low calories. . . we have to stop judging food, too much or too little, wrong kind, wrong type, when we truly own following hunger/fullness it will be sooooooooo freeing. I JUST KNOW IT!

Regarding momma. It's so good that you are foreseeing the potential derailment. Think through what you're gonna do in advance. Don't let it catch you off guard. Do NOT allow mom to suck you back into dysfunctional emotional gluttenous eating. The cost is way to high. You'll mess up your hormones and it's just not worth it. Sorry about the new scale being higher. It's really not about our weight now is it? It's about respecting how the Great Designer designed us, so fearfully and wonderfully that we have a signal in our bodies an on off switch which when we use it, works perfectly and keeps things in balance and in harmony. YOU'RE DOING IT GIRLFRIEND!! I will definitely be praying. Make a plan not to fail.

I'm going to attach a before and an after photo if I can.

[minimonkey]

Adeline -- WHAT AN INSPIRATION you are!!!!!! Those photos really say it all -- you look like a totally different person (and much younger, too!) I am so proud of you for all you've accomplished!

[adelinesdream]

WELL THANK YOU, can I take you home with me

I need someone to inspire me to build some muscles.

Today went well. I logged my before and after hunger throughout the day. I ate half my apple around 11 ish; I cooked some P2 chili that I ate half of around 1:30 ish around 3 I ate the other half of my apple and around 4:30 I finished the other half of my chili. I have 2 more containers of chili to cover two other meals. I came home and was tempted to jump into the chicken stew I was heating up for DH and DS, but instead I quickly made cottage cheese, strawberry, spinach and strawberry smoothie, actually 2 of them. I had one around 6 pm and another around 7:30. I'm also working on my bible study www.settingcaptivesfree.com to address the spiritual part of gluttony in me. I want to be free to be me, the me I was meant to be, I want to be free to run, free to live, free to give all I have to give! (a song I love that is sung at the conference my Coach Dani Johnson has played at a certain section of the conference).