P3- to eat a lot, or only to hunger?

[julieboolie]

I've been mulling this over...

Taking a survey:

Those of you who've been through P3, can you share whether you tried to eat up to your recommended BMR/RMR daily needs or just to hunger?

I've done rounds both ways, but my last P3 was most successful ramping up to the recommended cals slowly. I was able to get them pretty high, but once I added in carbs, or dined out, I had trouble.

Trying to reconcile the Woodall recommendations to only eat to hunger, and guessing the cals will be lower.

[cocoapeanut]

I decided to throw the BMR recommendation to the wind and just eat to hunger. I stabilized beautifully, only had to do one steak day. And that was the result of eating a rather large amount of cream cheese that was in taco dip at my friend's birthday party.

I'm no expert but from what I can tell anecdotally, the people that rush into P3 and eat massive amounts of food are the ones that end up running into a bit of trouble. When I got to P3 I felt that it would be best to just listen to my body, no matter how much or how little it wanted me to eat. :]

[Arctic_Mama]

The only-to-hunger gets me in so much less trouble. I think that was why I regained a bit nd struggled on my first round - I kept eating because it tasted good and I could, long past when I was full. So even though my foods were smack on for P3 and the calories were technically okay, I kept having to do correction days. This time around, I am only getting into scale trouble (so far, anyway) when I have overindulged, even if it has involved starch I am not gaining unless I overeat.

It's a revelation, for sure.

[emel]

I tried to do the BMR thing but I rebelled because I was tired of counting out everything.
I gave myself permission to eat to satisfaction and also have a 'festival meal' or two a week, like dinner at a restaurant chosen mindfully but not worrying about what they put in their ranch dressing.

During the week, I'd choose P3 foods and I'd eat what I wanted and then i might be a little bit (but not a lot) freer on the weekends.
I ate chicken thighs, steak (I buy big steaks but I never finish them), pork roast, hot wings....
I've always been a big vegetable eater, so I chose a lot of P2 veg w/a few P3's. For example, I'd have a salad and some pumpkin casserole for dinner, but just salad for lunch.
I didn't eat a lot of fruit, but if I wanted some, I'd eat it. Maybe 1 or 2 a day.
I ate nuts, olives, used flax oil, olive oil for cooking.
I made some desserts, like cocoa crack or a Biz shake or berries w/real whipped cream.
I drink my coffee black. I did put almond milk in iced coffee sometimes, maybe twice a month.
And cocktails. Bloody Marys and bourbon and diet and seltzer. I try not to drink diet soda at all now.

I've done 3 rounds, and I have done 1 correction day, which I probably didn't really need to do because I wasn't out of my window, just at the very top of it.

[Arctic_Mama]

I'm sorry Emel, but I have a hard time reading your posts when I'm laughing every time I see your avatar

[misslatte]

This is something I've been pondering also - I'm curious to read everyone's experiences!

[Lildrew]

I haven't decided for sure yet, since I am only on day two of a 49 day round, but I am leaning towards eating to fullness. I haven't done so great using the BMR method and I don't really see how I can do poorly listening to my body's cues. Still on the fence though.

[julieboolie]

Thanks ladies! That's kind of the direction I'm leaning towards. A few round ago (maybe my first, I've lost count), I pushed cals to the recommended level, all clean P3 foods, and struggled. I'm gonna do the "to hunger" thing this time. I'll try to track too, just so I have an idea of where I am.

Are any of you guys no longer weighing daily, as Robin suggests? Just eating to hunger/mind/body w/o concern for te scale? That's scary for me! . I need accountability, but won't freak if the scale number isn't what I want it to be. It's just 1 meaurement of my health and fitness level : D

[christyb]

I am fully convinced that eating to hunger is the way to go. After reading Robin's book and watching almost all of her You Tube videos I really believe that it is the way we are meant to do things. Our bodies were created to take care of themselves and we just have to listen.

That said, this is my first P3, so I don't have a lot to go on. I've been eating to hunger as best as I can. I am having trouble recognizing it sometimes. And also not always sure if I'm full or not. So I stop for a while and then realize I didn't eat enough. Hopefully I'll get better with practice. Maintaining has been easy so far, but I'm only a week in.

Julie, I'm still weighing myself every day. I'm not there yet. But I don't feel addicted to the scale either. I just want to make sure I'm doing things right. You know? But I'm thinking about throwing caution to the wind this weekend. We are leaving to go visit my MIL tomorrow through Tuesday. I kind of don't want to bring my scale. Partially, because it's embarrassing. I think if I eat to hunger while I'm there I should be ok. But on the other hand, I'm such a rule follower that I feel like I'm asking for trouble by not taking it because Dr. S even says to take it on vacation.

[shelbyla]

I'll be the contrarian here. I have done 4 rounds and differently each time. I deliberately ate to BMRx first round even though it was a PITA to count all the calories and macronutrients and stabilized like a rock. It wasn't a problem eating all the food. It never is. The second round, I did the same. I had WILD fluctuations in my weight--I mean if I went up or down by less than 2 pounds daily, I'd count myself lucky. I didn't often go over LDW but if I did, I did a cd right away. Round 3--well, that one I went whole hog right out of the gate (4000+ calories on day1?) and never stabilized. It could have been a number of factors--too many calories on day 1, too many new foods introduced too soon, not doing a cd on day 2, small variations in protocol during my round, a shorter round in general, . I did everything that I could to get back to my window including JUDDD, calorie counting, macronutrient counting, high fat, cds, but nothing really worked. This last round, I think I dropped my body too low in weight to something that just isn't sustainable for me. I was losing "the girls" which as far as I can tell from all my research is not "abnormal fat" . So I seem to have "stabilized" about 5-10 pound above LDW. Not sure what the answer is but fiddling around with everything now to see where it gets me.

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

I'll be the contrarian here. I have done 4 rounds and differently each time. I deliberately ate to BMRx first round even though it was a PITA to count all the calories and macronutrients and stabilized like a rock. It wasn't a problem eating all the food. It never is. The second round, I did the same. I had WILD fluctuations in my weight--I mean if I went up or down by less than 2 pounds daily, I'd count myself lucky. I didn't often go over LDW but if I did, I did a cd right away. Round 3--well, that one I went whole hog right out of the gate (4000+ calories on day1?) and never stabilized. It could have been a number of factors--too many calories on day 1, too many new foods introduced too soon, not doing a cd on day 2, small variations in protocol during my round, a shorter round in general, . I did everything that I could to get back to my window including JUDDD, calorie counting, macronutrient counting, high fat, cds, but nothing really worked. This last round, I think I dropped my body too low in weight to something that just isn't sustainable for me. I was losing "the girls" which as far as I can tell from all my research is not "abnormal fat" . So I seem to have "stabilized" about 5-10 pound above LDW. Not sure what the answer is but fiddling around with everything now to see where it gets me.

Your round 3 sounds like my round 3. I never stabilized and was all over the place in P3. I also agree about pushing your body to too low of a weight--I did the same thing with rounds 1 and 2 (162 lbs) and found that my body ended up stabilizing between 168-170 both times (no matter how many correction days I did to get back to the lower weight!). I would do a steak day and lose the 2 or 3 lbs but it would come right back on over the following two days. I did that a few times before I stopped the insanity and just accepted that my body did not like to be anywhere under 168.

I usually eat to hunger in P3. My first round I tried the whole BMR but it was SO difficult eating that much food when I can't do dairy (it's easy if you can eat full fat yogurt and lots of cheese though). I was just eating Paleo and stopping when full and it seemed to work for me with round 2. I also followed most of the Leptin rules of no snacking and making sure I had at least 3-4 hours between meals and 3 hours between dinner and bed. But I just could not continue with the Big A$$ Breakfast--even though I did lose 2 lbs when I was doing it.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

I've been mulling this over...

Taking a survey:

Those of you who've been through P3, can you share whether you tried to eat up to your recommended BMR/RMR daily needs or just to hunger?

I've done rounds both ways, but my last P3 was most successful ramping up to the recommended cals slowly. I was able to get them pretty high, but once I added in carbs, or dined out, I had trouble.

Trying to reconcile the Woodall recommendations to only eat to hunger, and guessing the cals will be lower.

In my many rounds, I have NEVER counted a single calorie. I don't plan to with this next P3 either. I am headed to P3 next week and cannot wait to eat all that yummy food !!!!!

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

Thanks ladies! That's kind of the direction I'm leaning towards. A few round ago (maybe my first, I've lost count), I pushed cals to the recommended level, all clean P3 foods, and struggled. I'm gonna do the "to hunger" thing this time. I'll try to track too, just so I have an idea of where I am.

Are any of you guys no longer weighing daily, as Robin suggests? Just eating to hunger/mind/body w/o concern for te scale? That's scary for me! . I need accountability, but won't freak if the scale number isn't what I want it to be. It's just 1 meaurement of my health and fitness level : D

I intend to weigh daily. I will follow Simeon's rule for that. I still will follow his correction day theory as well. At least for P3. When I go into P4, I will be JUDDDing. I think that is a way I can maintain because I will be restricting every other day. I need accountability and won't have that unless I weigh daily. There are some days on P2 that I don't want to weigh in, but I am doing it. Ah, the scale. Ugh!!!!! Some days

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by christyb

I am fully convinced that eating to hunger is the way to go. After reading Robin's book and watching almost all of her You Tube videos I really believe that it is the way we are meant to do things. Our bodies were created to take care of themselves and we just have to listen.

That said, this is my first P3, so I don't have a lot to go on. I've been eating to hunger as best as I can. I am having trouble recognizing it sometimes. And also not always sure if I'm full or not. So I stop for a while and then realize I didn't eat enough. Hopefully I'll get better with practice. Maintaining has been easy so far, but I'm only a week in.

Julie, I'm still weighing myself every day. I'm not there yet. But I don't feel addicted to the scale either. I just want to make sure I'm doing things right. You know? But I'm thinking about throwing caution to the wind this weekend. We are leaving to go visit my MIL tomorrow through Tuesday. I kind of don't want to bring my scale. Partially, because it's embarrassing. I think if I eat to hunger while I'm there I should be ok. But on the other hand, I'm such a rule follower that I feel like I'm asking for trouble by not taking it because Dr. S even says to take it on vacation.

My vacation starts next Saturday. My P3 starts next Friday. I am going to bring my scale. When can I tell if I need a CD? I cannot even tell when I am losing weight, how can I tell if I am stable or not? You have to use the scale. That is the only way to know if you are eating enough, not enough, or the right things. I took my scale on every vacation that I went on since doing hcg. At least it keeps me accountable. I NEED that!!! At least for now. Maybe when I get a handle on what I can eat and the amounts I can do away with the daily weighing, but for now...the scale will be with me. It may not be my buddy as I don't like it every day, but it will be with me.

[Tommyswife]

Originally Posted by cocoapeanut

I decided to throw the BMR recommendation to the wind and just eat to hunger. I stabilized beautifully, only had to do one steak day. And that was the result of eating a rather large amount of cream cheese that was in taco dip at my friend's birthday party.

I'm no expert but from what I can tell anecdotally, the people that rush into P3 and eat massive amounts of food are the ones that end up running into a bit of trouble. When I got to P3 I felt that it would be best to just listen to my body, no matter how much or how little it wanted me to eat. :]

Awesome! Thank you for this...very helpful

[christyb]

I am becoming more and more convinced that the whole theory of calories in/calories out is bunk. It seems to be a much more complicated hormonal system than that.

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by christyb

I am becoming more and more convinced that the whole theory of calories in/calories out is bunk. It seems to be a much more complicated hormonal system than that.

I can tell you that it's bunk because when I was on Weight Watchers I NEVER cheated, never went over my points allowance and I actually GAINED weight the first week! Im pretty sure for me it was the bananas since they allow unlimited fruit now. As it was I was only having 1 a day but that was 1 too many for my sugar-sensitive body! On the other hand, I can pretty much eat thousands of calories composed of healthy fats and not gain an ounce (and sometimes lose).

[misslatte]

I think I'm going to try to get up to my BMR with Harris Benedict factored in for activity - I'm going to start slowly and see how far I can get. Wish me luck! As Shelby said (I think) I would rather normally eat 2000 calories and drop down to 1600 if I want to correct/lose...

[marion93]

Hello everyone!

Have been away from the board for awhile, but I thought i would add my P3 experience to the list.

1st round: Took a few days but eventually ate to bmr. (thank you Shelby!) I stabilized like a rock. Did one correction day but probably didn't need to since it turned out to be a TOM issue.

2nd round: P3 not so good. Correction days all over the place. Two things (or more) I did wrong. I ended up matching my eating habits with my fiancé, who had did that round with me. He is actually more emotionally attached to bad foods than I am, but in my codepenency I matched him. Problem is, his body is more forgiving than mine though. Still he had his fair share of correction days.

I also got sloppy with counting my calories. So, turns out, I did not much right on R2P3 but learned a hell of a lot.

3rd P3: I'm starting my third week of P3 today. I have stabilized like a rock, and I have been BELOW LIW! This time, I have been eating to hunger. I have kept the scale...I don't quite agree with Robin regarding that piece. The scale is a valuable tool, but I do agree that one should not get ones panties in a bunch over its antics. Our intrinsic worth is NOT measured by a number on a scale! So, I keep my emotions in check and still use the scale as a tool.

I have found that if I eat to hunger and cheat a little, I still stay the same weight or lose a little. Also, if I stay in alotted foods but overeat, I gain weight! So there is something to this, I suppose. What I like is that eating to hunger brings me even closer to listening to my body, which is always a good thing.

But....I still have one more week of P3 so, who knows? Also, what will happen with P4?

So, in summary, I have had great success with eating to bmr, and some initial success with eating to hunger.

I hope that helps more than confuses the issue!

[marion93]

I gotta change my avatar!

[marion93]

Avatar changed! and now I am subscribed to thread as well!

[emel]

Originally Posted by christyb

I am becoming more and more convinced that the whole theory of calories in/calories out is bunk. It seems to be a much more complicated hormonal system than that.

Originally Posted by Nicole T

I can tell you that it's bunk because when I was on Weight Watchers I NEVER cheated, never went over my points allowance and I actually GAINED weight the first week! Im pretty sure for me it was the bananas since they allow unlimited fruit now. As it was I was only having 1 a day but that was 1 too many for my sugar-sensitive body! On the other hand, I can pretty much eat thousands of calories composed of healthy fats and not gain an ounce (and sometimes lose).

I first came to LCF after I completed a long course of steroids. I was eating 950 to 1150 cal per day and I gained 23 lbs in 4 months. So yes, I believe there is more to it than calories in/calories out.

[TiffanyM]

Originally Posted by christyb

I am becoming more and more convinced that the whole theory of calories in/calories out is bunk. It seems to be a much more complicated hormonal system than that.

I agree. I'm in P4 now, struggling a little with the hunger scale, but that's the best way in my opinion.

I lose all ability to reason when it comes to mexican food though. Lord have mercy.

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by TiffanyM

I agree. I'm in P4 now, struggling a little with the hunger scale, but that's the best way in my opinion.

I lose all ability to reason when it comes to mexican food though. Lord have mercy.

Oh yes...I've been craving Uncle Julio's....one of our favorites!!!!! I told my mom that I am in no mood to cheat...then she said, being cocky...what about Uncle Julio's?...and I said...well, maybe I can cheat...lol. BUT we didn't go Good thing!!!

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by marion93

Avatar changed! and now I am subscribed to thread as well!

Marion! Good to see ya girl! Coffee or drinks sometime soon!

[TiffanyM]

Originally Posted by Crazy PreK Teacher

Oh yes...I've been craving Uncle Julio's....one of our favorites!!!!! I told my mom that I am in no mood to cheat...then she said, being cocky...what about Uncle Julio's?...and I said...well, maybe I can cheat...lol. BUT we didn't go Good thing!!!

Mmmmmmmm Uncle Julios! I love that place!

[cocoapeanut]

Originally Posted by marion93

I have found that if I eat to hunger and cheat a little, I still stay the same weight or lose a little. Also, if I stay in alotted foods but overeat, I gain weight! So there is something to this, I suppose. What I like is that eating to hunger brings me even closer to listening to my body, which is always a good thing.

Hi LA buddy!

I am EXACTLY like this! If I just eat to hunger I tend to maintain, even if that includes a little candy or starchy carbs. If I eat a ton of low-carb foods I'll gain though. I'm generally okay as long as I can keep portions in check..it's just easier to keep portions in check when eating filling things like fat and protein! I mean, does anyone ever just eat 2/3 cup of cereal or 12 wheat thins?! One of the many reasons I rarely eat wheat..

[marion93]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Marion! Good to see ya girl! Coffee or drinks sometime soon!

Yes, let's! . I am in P4 now! Yay! So drinks sounds really good...lol! But, coffee is good too.

[marion93]

Originally Posted by cocoapeanut

Hi LA buddy!

I am EXACTLY like this! If I just eat to hunger I tend to maintain, even if that includes a little candy or starchy carbs. If I eat a ton of low-carb foods I'll gain though. I'm generally okay as long as I can keep portions in check..it's just easier to keep portions in check when eating filling things like fat and protein! I mean, does anyone ever just eat 2/3 cup of cereal or 12 wheat thins?! One of the many reasons I rarely eat wheat..

Yes. My experience too. I am trying to keep wheat down to an occasional occurrence, like at a social function or something.

And you are in LA? We should do another SoCal Meetup, we had alot of fun at the last one.

[dbunny]

TO read for P3... starting next week!