Atkins/Other Plans after HCG - Page 18

TerriMM · 07-23-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddesslynne

Wow, great minds think alike!! LOL!! I started back with mine yesterday after a long break, only due to my own laziness!! I'm not normally a night time face-washer. Shocking, I know.

Sunday was a challenge for others, too? I guess I'm in really good company!! We went to a bbq which should have been perfect for me: tons of meat (beef, pork and chicken) and a bit of salad!! Well, that and the wine, which then led to a trip to the dessert table! So, it went from perfect meal to perfect disaster!! At one point I turned to Mr. Goddess and said, "don't judge me"!!

I was shocked at how quickly the junk effected me!! At home watching True Blood and The Newsroom (any fans?) my heart was pounding!! I hope I'll be able to burn off some of the excess glycogen this morning in my workout. I woke up feeling so terribly hungry, but I know it's from the sugar, so I'm going to ignore it as long as possible, at least until an hour after my workout.

Wishing us all a much better week!!

Oh yeah! Perfect day Low carb meals, great work out and then DH took the browies out of the freezer. Two big browies later I sent him to the kitchen the "GET RID OF THEM!" I knew if I went to throw them out I'd have "one more bite" before I ended up finishing them

At least they're gone now and I have a clean kitchen to start the week.

Nicole T · 07-23-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebbyL

Mini, I just read a post by a friend w/thyroid issues... she decided to stop "counting her coconut oil; and stop working out) ... since she's so close to goal, and felt she was stressing out her body... she lost 2.5 lbs in that one week of "rest"
... just a thought, maybe all the hard work-outs have something to do with the water wt.?
I think I will try to get the 1 day of rest in there, and see if it helps too. Have a good one!

I totally agree that it could be the workouts. I follow Dr Diane Swarzbein (an endocrinologist) and she talks about how high stress workouts (elliptical, spinning, running etc) actually stress out your body and cause it produce stress hormones which in turn cause you to gain weight, not lose it. She says you really don't need more than a great walking routine and to lift heavy things from time to time. Mark Sission (Primal Blueprint) also says the same thing. There are a lot of athletes who decide to stop running marathons and suddenly start losing weight!

minimonkey · 07-23-2012, 02:42 PM

Well, first things first, I am not giving up my workouts!

I wholeheartedly agree that too much cardio is a counterproductive to fat loss, at least for some people. I know it is for me.

I'm not doing straight cardio, though -- my workouts are primarily lifting, though the workout is structured and paced so that it does have a cardio component.

I'm doing this three to four times a week, and getting plenty of rest time in between workouts -- so I doubt that is the major issue.

I'm much more likely to pinpoint psychological stress, and perimenopause, as problematic to the hormonal balance. My poor body really took a beating with the stress at the end of last semester -- physically and emotionally stressful beyond description! I'm doing the best I can to minimize stress, but a lot of it is simply beyond my control at the moment, so all I can do is try to moderate the way I react to it.

minimonkey · 07-23-2012, 03:01 PM

I'm going to keep doing low carb for now -- I'm increasing the fat, decreasing protein a bit, and hoping that decreases the overall calorie intake rather naturally. We'll see if that works. I don't know if any of you follow Jimmy Moore and his wacky experiments, but I have been reading him recently.

He had not only stopped losing, but started gaining a lot (not just muscle)on low carb after he started lifting weights -- he finally figured out that he wasn't going into ketosis, and after some tinkering around, he figured out that he needed to make fat the major component of his diet in order to induce ketosis.

Once he did this, he started losing like gangbusters. He's doing something that resembles a higher calorie version of the Keckwick diet, or the Fat Fast -- or Eat Fat, Get Thin, for that matter -- any of the high fat, low everything else diets.

It might be worth a try.

I'm stable at the moment -- bouncing around a 2 lb range from 126-129. This is an old set point for me, and my body is pretty happy to stay right here if I don't eat junk and problem foods.

Problem is, this is about 20 lbs higher than I want to be when stable. I am still holding on to a lot of water, and I think it may just be a matter of waiting it out on that front.

I'm high fatting it today, and we will see where that gets me --

It also seems that TOM may be about to stop, so that may help a great deal.

I will keep resisting the p2 siren for as long as I can.

paulabob · 07-23-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Once he did this, he started losing like gangbusters. He's doing something that resembles a higher calorie version of the Keckwick diet, or the Fat Fast -- or Eat Fat,

I was thinking it looked like the Optimal Diet, but he hasn't discussed what he's really eating. But he said protein was 13% of his calories, that's pretty low. Mine's a bit lower on my high calorie days, but I'm not exercising...

It's nice to see someone break a years' long stall...HOWEVER they do it. So many people are flippant about why lowcarb is not working for you...and until they've sat 3 or 4 years at the same weight trying dozens of recommendations...they should really keep their zips lipped.

I was reading some of the comments in the blog...should not have done that!

TerriMM · 07-23-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I'm going to keep doing low carb for now -- I'm increasing the fat, decreasing protein a bit, and hoping that decreases the overall calorie intake rather naturally. We'll see if that works. I don't know if any of you follow Jimmy Moore and his wacky experiments, but I have been reading him recently.

He had not only stopped losing, but started gaining a lot (not just muscle)on low carb after he started lifting weights -- he finally figured out that he wasn't going into ketosis, and after some tinkering around, he figured out that he needed to make fat the major component of his diet in order to induce ketosis.

Once he did this, he started losing like gangbusters. He's doing something that resembles a higher calorie version of the Keckwick diet, or the Fat Fast -- or Eat Fat, Get Thin, for that matter -- any of the high fat, low everything else diets.

It might be worth a try.

I'm stable at the moment -- bouncing around a 2 lb range from 126-129. This is an old set point for me, and my body is pretty happy to stay right here if I don't eat junk and problem foods.

Problem is, this is about 20 lbs higher than I want to be when stable. I am still holding on to a lot of water, and I think it may just be a matter of waiting it out on that front.

I'm high fatting it today, and we will see where that gets me --

It also seems that TOM may be about to stop, so that may help a great deal.

I will keep resisting the p2 siren for as long as I can.

I've been thinking about the Fat Fast a great deal too. I did really well with that but had trouble sticking with 1000 calories if not on HCG. What are you doing calorie wise or are you even counting that?

minimonkey · 07-23-2012, 03:28 PM

I know, Paula, about Jimmy's blog. While I think he did get some good advice, a lot of the comments just made me angry. Many, MANY of us stall out after a while on low carb.

Terri -- I'm not really counting calories, just focusing on high fat foods and trying not to eat beyond my hunger level. I did well on the fat fast, too, which is why I think this might be worth pursuing -- and my energy levels were good compared to the rest of the time on p2.

I'm doing this without dairy for now, which is a bit rough -- I haven't really ascertained whether eliminating the dairy is helpful or not, but I do know that I tend to over eat yogurt when it is anywhere near me... so I'm not keeping it around.

Today is just coconut bark and sunflower butter -- this obviously isn't a long term thing, but I am wondering if I might shed some of this water if I do this for a little while. I suspect I'll come in somewhere around 1500 calories today -- the fat calories add up really quickly.

minimonkey · 07-23-2012, 03:36 PM

Paula -- Jimmy's plan does resemble the Optimal Diet -- I am anxiously awaiting him disclosing what his menu looks like..... I really admire his continued efforts and overall positive attitude... not to mention that he is unbelievably polite to his dissenters!

minimonkey · 07-23-2012, 10:35 PM

I was really, truly hungry tonight-- my coconut oil and sunflower butter day just didn't cut it at all -- I was craving meat and fat and salt. So, I decided to go ahead and eat just that-- pastrami, bacon, and some (no sugar) mayonnaise with the pastrami. What the heck?

That is WAY outside of my normal craving spectrum of late-- which is part of why I decided to just go ahead and eat it. Maybe there was some bodily wisdom involved there.

I still ended up with a high fat to everything else ratio, but that certainly drove both the protein and the calories way up.

I've been peeing a lot today, and have also had a headache that has been lingering for days now, as well as having very achy legs and feet for the past two or three days -- and my fluid balance has clearly been off for some time now. I'm not normally a salt craver, so perhaps I actually needed it -- I've been feeling both bloated and dehydrated simultaneously, which is a weird feeling. I'm drinking plenty of fluid, but I don't think my body has been processing it at all correctly.

I'm nixing the nuts/nut butters, as of now. I'm going for a straight induction, with induction foods (still no dairy) ... I'll keep the fat percentage high.

I'm going to hit they gym for some major lower body work tomorrow, too -- I'll turn tonight's late dinner into some muscle fuel.

paulabob · 07-24-2012, 08:15 AM

Second day in a row at 130. Really want to be back to 127.4 and then through it. Argh, regretting Sunday! TOM still didn't show up...thought he had arrived. Last month was 32 days which drove me nuts...but was great for my anemia. Thinking TOM will ruin our anniversary weekend (tomorrow's 20 years for us).

TerriMM · 07-24-2012, 08:49 AM

I'm starting Fat Fast today. I kept getting all these little prompts yesterday out of the blue and I looked back on my journals and realized I did just as well on pellets as off. I'm not going to try to keep to 1000 calories, but I didn't before either. DH is gone until Thursday and then all week next week. Not sure if I'll keep it going through the weekend or switch to Pro Power when he gets home and pick it up again Monday. I guess we'll just see how it goes.

What would you Fat Fasters recommend?

Nicole T · 07-24-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerriMM

I'm starting Fat Fast today. I kept getting all these little prompts yesterday out of the blue and I looked back on my journals and realized I did just as well on pellets as off. I'm not going to try to keep to 1000 calories, but I didn't before either. DH is gone until Thursday and then all week next week. Not sure if I'll keep it going through the weekend or switch to Pro Power when he gets home and pick it up again Monday. I guess we'll just see how it goes.

What would you Fat Fasters recommend?

So are you going to do Fat Fast, lose a few and then go back to No S or are you not doing No S anymore?

minimonkey · 07-24-2012, 11:55 AM

Good luck on your fat fast, Terri! May it yield great results for you!

Sorry to hear about TOM troubles Paula -- boy, do I ever hear you on that one

Mine shows up whenever it cares to do so, and stays as long as it pleases.

Major congrats on the anniversary -- 20 years is amazing, and I'm sure it will be a great weekend, TOM or not (but I still hope it doesn't muck up your plans!)

Also sorry to hear about the gain -- it doesn't seem fair that one day could do so much damage, does it?

I stayed off the scale this morning, after yesterday's salt-fest -- though I really do think I may have needed the salt. Shortly after I ate it, the leg and foot cramps got a lot better. Apparently low sodium can cause water retention by causing hyponatremia -- my blood sodium levels looked ok when I had my blood tested, though -- but of course tests don't always show everything. I really don't add salt to much of anything, normally, nor do I eat foods high in sodium so that doesn't seem impossible to me.

I think I may finally have gotten into true ketosis! The idea of food is a bit queasy-making this morning, so I am going to hold off on eating until the idea sounds truly appealing. That's a bit amazing for me, since I usually wake up quite hungry.

I'm sticking to induction for the moment -- I think perhaps my more liberal low carb just wasn't enough to do do the trick on that front with my body being so used to ketogenic diets -- but the super high animal fat may have done the trick.

It sure would be nice to get into ketosis, lose all hunger, and just start losing again-- the old Atkins magic

. I'm going to really attend to hunger -- or lack thereof -- and stick with the very high fat for now.

I don't care to live that way forever, particularly, but it would certainly beat doing another round of p2, so if it gets the weight off, I'll gladly ride this one out.

minimonkey · 07-24-2012, 12:05 PM

Terri -- seems a number of folks are trending towards a high fat, moderate protein, modified-fat-fast sort of plan --Optimal Diet, EFGT, and so forth. There's some renewed interest in the ketogenic communities about that approach. I think there was some talk in the 'other plans' section about merging forces with the EFGT portion of the board -- I gather that the people on that board have done something a lot like what we've done -- started on one plan, and migrated to other plans, but continued to post as a group.

TerriMM · 07-24-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole T

So are you going to do Fat Fast, lose a few and then go back to No S or are you not doing No S anymore?

Actually I'm kinda doing Fat Fast No S style. Thinking of Pro Power as my S Days. Leave it to me to muck up the waters as much as possible.

And yes I'm trying to get safely back in the 120s and then ease up to more of a conventional No S.

minimonkey · 07-24-2012, 02:21 PM

I just wrote a fairly long post, and then realized it was redundant as heck -- so I will just say that I am excited about the prospect of being back in ketosis for real, and that I really, really hope this works!

Hitting the gym for some lower body work this afternoon -- if this really IS ketosis happening, I should have good, sustained energy while working out. Since discovering low carb so many years ago, one thing I have noticed is that my best athletic performance happens when I am in true ketosis... I tend to feel strong and steady for a good, long time.

Energy feels pretty good today -- better than it has in a while. My mood feels brighter, too, and I don't feel so achy.

goddesslynne · 07-24-2012, 02:39 PM

Horrible day. 171.

That's all.

MsHistory · 07-24-2012, 02:41 PM

Terri - will you let us know how many calories, and your fat fast menu? I'm thinking of going that route as well! (And I also couldn't possibly keep it under 1000 without hcg without gnawing off a limb!)

Hope you get good results!

paulabob · 07-24-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddesslynne

Horrible day. 171.

That's all.

Sorry!!!

Hope it gets better.

I think my Sunday carbs are finally out of my system...starting to feel that "jiggle" in my fat/muscles that starts when I'm back in weight loss mode. I had 3000 calories that day...so there was a lot to clear out.

Off to make Mexican for supper.

TerriMM · 07-24-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Terri -- seems a number of folks are trending towards a high fat, moderate protein, modified-fat-fast sort of plan --Optimal Diet, EFGT, and so forth. There's some renewed interest in the ketogenic communities about that approach. I think there was some talk in the 'other plans' section about merging forces with the EFGT portion of the board -- I gather that the people on that board have done something a lot like what we've done -- started on one plan, and migrated to other plans, but continued to post as a group.

Thanks Mini...I'll have to spend some time there and check it out. I did EFGT after the round where I did most of my Fat Fasting and did really well. My issue is getting lazy about tracking and journaling. I need to implant it in my brain enough to make it second nature. I'm getting closer.

minimonkey · 07-24-2012, 03:09 PM

Oh, Lynne -- big hugs! I am so sorry the scale is being so uncooperative ...

Did something in particular provoke the jump up? I can't remember who has been eating what, without some kind of reminder.

Paula -- whoohoo on the jiggles, lol. I was feeling that yesterday, myself -- and wondering if it was just my imagination, or if the phenomenon is real.

I'll weigh in this coming week, and see what the scale has to say.

Terri -- it'll be good to have an EFGT buddy!

I hope this ends up working well for both of us.

DebbyL · 07-24-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyla

On the fish oil, google "triple-strength" fish oil. There are a couple of good brands out there that are mercury filtered and they have (as you might have guessed) triple the DHA and EFA of regular fish oil. The endo who recommended fish oil to me for adrenal, thyroid, etc. recommended 1800/1200 concentrations which is usually around 10 large softgels per day. With the triple strength, that's down to 2-3 which is a little easier to swallow (so to speak!

). You're looking for capsule with 1360mg fish oil (950 total DHA/EFA--I think about 600/350 split).

Hi Shelby,
Glad you're feeling better!
As for this DHA... What brand name should I look for, for this?
Thanks!

TerriMM · 07-24-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsHistory

Terri - will you let us know how many calories, and your fat fast menu? I'm thinking of going that route as well! (And I also couldn't possibly keep it under 1000 without hcg without gnawing off a limb!)

Hope you get good results!

I'll totally give you the daily calories and fat percentage, but I only weigh in once a week. But I can tell you the WOE per week and weigh ins to compare since starting P3.

I'm just not in a place to put myself into suffer mode. I don't mind sacrificing, but this suffering thing is for the birds. I feel like if I'm suffering (or making those I love suffer

) I'm compromising my health and relationships. Both of which trump vanity.

TerriMM · 07-24-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Oh, Lynne -- big hugs! I am so sorry the scale is being so uncooperative ...

Did something in particular provoke the jump up? I can't remember who has been eating what, without some kind of reminder.

Paula -- whoohoo on the jiggles, lol. I was feeling that yesterday, myself -- and wondering if it was just my imagination, or if the phenomenon is real.

I'll weigh in this coming week, and see what the scale has to say.

Terri -- it'll be good to have an EFGT buddy!

I hope this ends up working well for both of us.

Go Buddy

Question Mini, and other fat fasters: Do you think it would be detrimental to take a low carb EFGTish break for the weekend and go back to Fat Fast next week?

I have two "feelin' it" things. One is narrowing in my lower cheeks (staring in the mirror after I take my make up off) and flatting abs as I walk by the mirror on the way to the bathroom in the middle of the night, which is sometimes hard to see in the dark

shelbyla · 07-24-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebbyL

Hi Shelby,
Glad you're feeling better!
As for this DHA... What brand name should I look for, for this?
Thanks!

If you google "Triple Strength Omega-3 Fish Oil 1360 mg" it is the first site that comes up. I don't think I can actually post the brand I use because it comes from a vitamin retailer which is in direct competition with Netrition (it's against our TOS). Again when you get to the site, look for the one with 1360mg--there are quite a few but that is the one that you want. The other brand I have used in the past is SAN Triple Strength Fish Fats, although Netrition is out of that brand. HTH

DebbyL · 07-24-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyla

If you google "Triple Strength Omega-3 Fish Oil 1360 mg" it is the first site that comes up. I don't think I can actually post the brand I use because it comes from a vitamin retailer which is in direct competition with Netrition (it's against our TOS). Again when you get to the site, look for the one with 1360mg--there are quite a few but that is the one that you want. The other brand I have used in the past is SAN Triple Strength Fish Fats, although Netrition is out of that brand. HTH

Thank you!

MsHistory · 07-24-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerriMM

I'll totally give you the daily calories and fat percentage, but I only weigh in once a week. But I can tell you the WOE per week and weigh ins to compare since starting P3.

I'm just not in a place to put myself into suffer mode. I don't mind sacrificing, but this suffering thing is for the birds. I feel like if I'm suffering (or making those I love suffer

) I'm compromising my health and relationships. Both of which trump vanity.

Thank you! You seem to be doing well, whatever it is you're doing so keep it up! I'm excited to try your method!

MsHistory · 07-24-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunday

I think you should choose something that is going to be sustainable for the long haul and since you are so close to goal, any plan that you stay true to will get you there. The deal is that "No S", Atkins, Optimal or Paleo are plans that you know work and what is even better is that JUDDD or IF can be done in combo with all of these plans. If you so choose!

That's a great idea to mix and match! Thank you! What does IF stand for? You also have done great on JUDDD, congrats! Did you follow the plan strictly, or do your own version?

julieboolie · 07-24-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulabob

I was thinking it looked like the Optimal Diet, but he hasn't discussed what he's really eating. But he said protein was 13% of his calories, that's pretty low. Mine's a bit lower on my high calorie days, but I'm not exercising...

It's nice to see someone break a years' long stall...HOWEVER they do it. So many people are flippant about why lowcarb is not working for you...and until they've sat 3 or 4 years at the same weight trying dozens of recommendations...they should really keep their zips lipped.

I was reading some of the comments in the blog...should not have done that!

Hey Paula!! How are you? Missed you and am glad to see you're doing well!

Just popping in here. I'm wrapping up my round and thinking ahead to the future. Checking to see how the "after" Hcg plans are working.

minimonkey · 07-24-2012, 11:38 PM

Hi Julie! Glad that round is nearly over for you -- looks like it has been a good one, too

I had an excellent day food wise -- probably came in at about 1500 very clean calories, high fat, very low carb, and I am utterly sated -- almost too full, really. I MUST be in real ketosis, at last!

I had a great workout, too -- and that usually makes me ravenous. Energy was good for the most part. I'm still carrying way too much water, though -- it is coming off some, but excruciatingly slowly.

Maybe I'll get a big whoosh soon -- TOM is finally wrapping up, and maybe it will stay gone for a bit this time (a girl can hope, lol!) I would feel so much better, both physically and emotionally, if the water retention would normalize.... but I guess that takes time after something really upsets the system.

If my appetite stays at this level of suppression, it should be no problem at all for me to eat at a deficit and still feel very, very satisfied. There's a lot to be said for a by-the-books induction

I fully expect to be the incredible (lean) hulk after all this ketogenic food, and a few months with the new training system

I am loving the new workout system -- it's challenging, but not so much that I hate it -- just the right amount of challenge. I definitely know I'm getting in a good workout, but I can still move the next day.

07-23-2012, 02:42 PM	#513
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Well, first things first, I am not giving up my workouts! I wholeheartedly agree that too much cardio is a counterproductive to fat loss, at least for some people. I know it is for me. I'm not doing straight cardio, though -- my workouts are primarily lifting, though the workout is structured and paced so that it does have a cardio component. I'm doing this three to four times a week, and getting plenty of rest time in between workouts -- so I doubt that is the major issue. I'm much more likely to pinpoint psychological stress, and perimenopause, as problematic to the hormonal balance. My poor body really took a beating with the stress at the end of last semester -- physically and emotionally stressful beyond description! I'm doing the best I can to minimize stress, but a lot of it is simply beyond my control at the moment, so all I can do is try to moderate the way I react to it. __________________ Rogue p2 cycling: 8/28:128.6 .... 10/7 118.4 ....10/20: 115.8

07-24-2012, 08:49 AM	#521
TerriMM Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,435 Gallery: TerriMM Start Date: 5/18/11	I'm starting Fat Fast today. I kept getting all these little prompts yesterday out of the blue and I looked back on my journals and realized I did just as well on pellets as off. I'm not going to try to keep to 1000 calories, but I didn't before either. DH is gone until Thursday and then all week next week. Not sure if I'll keep it going through the weekend or switch to Pro Power when he gets home and pick it up again Monday. I guess we'll just see how it goes. What would you Fat Fasters recommend? __________________ Figuring it out for the long run!

07-24-2012, 02:21 PM	#526
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	I just wrote a fairly long post, and then realized it was redundant as heck -- so I will just say that I am excited about the prospect of being back in ketosis for real, and that I really, really hope this works! Hitting the gym for some lower body work this afternoon -- if this really IS ketosis happening, I should have good, sustained energy while working out. Since discovering low carb so many years ago, one thing I have noticed is that my best athletic performance happens when I am in true ketosis... I tend to feel strong and steady for a good, long time. Energy feels pretty good today -- better than it has in a while. My mood feels brighter, too, and I don't feel so achy. Last edited by minimonkey; 07-24-2012 at 02:30 PM..

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07-23-2012, 03:01 PM	#514
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	I'm going to keep doing low carb for now -- I'm increasing the fat, decreasing protein a bit, and hoping that decreases the overall calorie intake rather naturally. We'll see if that works. I don't know if any of you follow Jimmy Moore and his wacky experiments, but I have been reading him recently. He had not only stopped losing, but started gaining a lot (not just muscle)on low carb after he started lifting weights -- he finally figured out that he wasn't going into ketosis, and after some tinkering around, he figured out that he needed to make fat the major component of his diet in order to induce ketosis. Once he did this, he started losing like gangbusters. He's doing something that resembles a higher calorie version of the Keckwick diet, or the Fat Fast -- or Eat Fat, Get Thin, for that matter -- any of the high fat, low everything else diets. It might be worth a try. I'm stable at the moment -- bouncing around a 2 lb range from 126-129. This is an old set point for me, and my body is pretty happy to stay right here if I don't eat junk and problem foods. Problem is, this is about 20 lbs higher than I want to be when stable. I am still holding on to a lot of water, and I think it may just be a matter of waiting it out on that front. I'm high fatting it today, and we will see where that gets me -- It also seems that TOM may be about to stop, so that may help a great deal. I will keep resisting the p2 siren for as long as I can.

07-23-2012, 03:28 PM	#517
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	I know, Paula, about Jimmy's blog. While I think he did get some good advice, a lot of the comments just made me angry. Many, MANY of us stall out after a while on low carb. Terri -- I'm not really counting calories, just focusing on high fat foods and trying not to eat beyond my hunger level. I did well on the fat fast, too, which is why I think this might be worth pursuing -- and my energy levels were good compared to the rest of the time on p2. I'm doing this without dairy for now, which is a bit rough -- I haven't really ascertained whether eliminating the dairy is helpful or not, but I do know that I tend to over eat yogurt when it is anywhere near me... so I'm not keeping it around. Today is just coconut bark and sunflower butter -- this obviously isn't a long term thing, but I am wondering if I might shed some of this water if I do this for a little while. I suspect I'll come in somewhere around 1500 calories today -- the fat calories add up really quickly.

07-23-2012, 03:36 PM	#518
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Paula -- Jimmy's plan does resemble the Optimal Diet -- I am anxiously awaiting him disclosing what his menu looks like..... I really admire his continued efforts and overall positive attitude... not to mention that he is unbelievably polite to his dissenters!

07-23-2012, 10:35 PM	#519
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	I was really, truly hungry tonight-- my coconut oil and sunflower butter day just didn't cut it at all -- I was craving meat and fat and salt. So, I decided to go ahead and eat just that-- pastrami, bacon, and some (no sugar) mayonnaise with the pastrami. What the heck? That is WAY outside of my normal craving spectrum of late-- which is part of why I decided to just go ahead and eat it. Maybe there was some bodily wisdom involved there. I still ended up with a high fat to everything else ratio, but that certainly drove both the protein and the calories way up. I've been peeing a lot today, and have also had a headache that has been lingering for days now, as well as having very achy legs and feet for the past two or three days -- and my fluid balance has clearly been off for some time now. I'm not normally a salt craver, so perhaps I actually needed it -- I've been feeling both bloated and dehydrated simultaneously, which is a weird feeling. I'm drinking plenty of fluid, but I don't think my body has been processing it at all correctly. I'm nixing the nuts/nut butters, as of now. I'm going for a straight induction, with induction foods (still no dairy) ... I'll keep the fat percentage high. I'm going to hit they gym for some major lower body work tomorrow, too -- I'll turn tonight's late dinner into some muscle fuel.

07-24-2012, 08:15 AM	#520
paulabob Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 6,545 Gallery: paulabob Stats: 204/124.6/110 49%/27.4%/20% 5'2" WOE: Atkins/hHcg/Optimal whatever works Start Date: restart March '10	Second day in a row at 130. Really want to be back to 127.4 and then through it. Argh, regretting Sunday! TOM still didn't show up...thought he had arrived. Last month was 32 days which drove me nuts...but was great for my anemia. Thinking TOM will ruin our anniversary weekend (tomorrow's 20 years for us).

07-24-2012, 11:55 AM	#523
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Good luck on your fat fast, Terri! May it yield great results for you! Sorry to hear about TOM troubles Paula -- boy, do I ever hear you on that one Mine shows up whenever it cares to do so, and stays as long as it pleases. Major congrats on the anniversary -- 20 years is amazing, and I'm sure it will be a great weekend, TOM or not (but I still hope it doesn't muck up your plans!) Also sorry to hear about the gain -- it doesn't seem fair that one day could do so much damage, does it? I stayed off the scale this morning, after yesterday's salt-fest -- though I really do think I may have needed the salt. Shortly after I ate it, the leg and foot cramps got a lot better. Apparently low sodium can cause water retention by causing hyponatremia -- my blood sodium levels looked ok when I had my blood tested, though -- but of course tests don't always show everything. I really don't add salt to much of anything, normally, nor do I eat foods high in sodium so that doesn't seem impossible to me. I think I may finally have gotten into true ketosis! The idea of food is a bit queasy-making this morning, so I am going to hold off on eating until the idea sounds truly appealing. That's a bit amazing for me, since I usually wake up quite hungry. I'm sticking to induction for the moment -- I think perhaps my more liberal low carb just wasn't enough to do do the trick on that front with my body being so used to ketogenic diets -- but the super high animal fat may have done the trick. It sure would be nice to get into ketosis, lose all hunger, and just start losing again-- the old Atkins magic . I'm going to really attend to hunger -- or lack thereof -- and stick with the very high fat for now. I don't care to live that way forever, particularly, but it would certainly beat doing another round of p2, so if it gets the weight off, I'll gladly ride this one out.

07-24-2012, 12:05 PM	#524
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Terri -- seems a number of folks are trending towards a high fat, moderate protein, modified-fat-fast sort of plan --Optimal Diet, EFGT, and so forth. There's some renewed interest in the ketogenic communities about that approach. I think there was some talk in the 'other plans' section about merging forces with the EFGT portion of the board -- I gather that the people on that board have done something a lot like what we've done -- started on one plan, and migrated to other plans, but continued to post as a group.

07-24-2012, 02:39 PM	#527
goddesslynne Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Torrance, CA Posts: 886 Gallery: goddesslynne Stats: 240/???/140 (50, 5'4", small frame) WOE: DUKAN	Horrible day. 171. That's all.

07-24-2012, 02:41 PM	#528
MsHistory Senior LCF Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Montana Posts: 274 Gallery: MsHistory Stats: 164/144/125 WOE: Hhcg Start Date: February 2011	Terri - will you let us know how many calories, and your fat fast menu? I'm thinking of going that route as well! (And I also couldn't possibly keep it under 1000 without hcg without gnawing off a limb!) Hope you get good results!

07-24-2012, 03:09 PM	#531
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Oh, Lynne -- big hugs! I am so sorry the scale is being so uncooperative ... Did something in particular provoke the jump up? I can't remember who has been eating what, without some kind of reminder. Paula -- whoohoo on the jiggles, lol. I was feeling that yesterday, myself -- and wondering if it was just my imagination, or if the phenomenon is real. I'll weigh in this coming week, and see what the scale has to say. Terri -- it'll be good to have an EFGT buddy! I hope this ends up working well for both of us.

07-24-2012, 11:38 PM	#540
minimonkey Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,029 Gallery: minimonkey Stats: 5'0" -- very small frame WOE: Clean eating, whole foods	Hi Julie! Glad that round is nearly over for you -- looks like it has been a good one, too I had an excellent day food wise -- probably came in at about 1500 very clean calories, high fat, very low carb, and I am utterly sated -- almost too full, really. I MUST be in real ketosis, at last! I had a great workout, too -- and that usually makes me ravenous. Energy was good for the most part. I'm still carrying way too much water, though -- it is coming off some, but excruciatingly slowly. Maybe I'll get a big whoosh soon -- TOM is finally wrapping up, and maybe it will stay gone for a bit this time (a girl can hope, lol!) I would feel so much better, both physically and emotionally, if the water retention would normalize.... but I guess that takes time after something really upsets the system. If my appetite stays at this level of suppression, it should be no problem at all for me to eat at a deficit and still feel very, very satisfied. There's a lot to be said for a by-the-books induction I fully expect to be the incredible (lean) hulk after all this ketogenic food, and a few months with the new training system I am loving the new workout system -- it's challenging, but not so much that I hate it -- just the right amount of challenge. I definitely know I'm getting in a good workout, but I can still move the next day.