Atkins/Other Plans after HCG

[sunday]

Originally Posted by paulabob

I'm doing fairly close the protocol Monday-Friday, then eating closer to maintenance calories on the weekend to fit my lifestyle. As soon as weight loss slows or I feel those insufferable munchies from a metabolism gone haywire, I will switch to pure maintenance optimal diet style. I expect 3-4 weeks...don't want to push it and spin my wheels...done enough of that the past 18 months.

Excited to see how you do and compare notes. Already lost a little bit of thigh fat, arm fat, and some back fat.... waist is very stubborn right now.

Thank you! I see this as a scientific experiment and I most certainly still have quite a bit to lose to get to goal. I just saw an ad on TV about a BG monitor that doesn't need to prick your skin to get a reading. I would love to purchase this just so I can record BG reading data while eating this plan.

[minimonkey]

Well, I certainly got stuck on p2 -- and Cheryl used the word addicted to describe it -- though I think it was more accurate to say that I was scared to stop -- I hit my original goal a couple of times, but wanted to be just a bit lower, and couldn't get there -- and when I did try to do p3, I'd gain -- so I kept going back on p2.

I've read some of Brad Pilon's writing, and a lot of Martin Berkham -- and I played around with IFing a bit last year. I didn't lose scale weight on it but I do think it helped the body composition a bit. I suspect I'll give that a go again rather soon, actually. I enjoyed it -- I liked the flexibility of it, which I didn't really feel with JUDDD. I found the strict JUDDD rotations a bit too rigid.

[minimonkey]

I'm interested to see how you do on the SF protocol, Sunday -- and also what you find out in your queries to the blog owner.

I eliminated dairy from my diet as of today, and am curious if that will help with the water retention. I'm really suspecting I have a dairy sensitivity, though I'd love to be wrong about that. I'm leaving everything else the same, for now. Hunger continues to decrease -- I think I am eating roughly maintenance calories for me now, assuming that to be somewhere around 1800 -- and that's great. If I can do that most days, and throw in a day or two of IF during the week, that'll add up to a weekly deficit, but a manageable one.

[minimonkey]

I posted this over on the rogue thread, too, but...

We have NEW TOYS in our gym! My roommate got some birthday money, and she chose to add to the gym equipment with it -- so we got a second weight bench with ... a SQUAT RACK! I have been wanting one of those for a very long time!!

We're about to start a new system for working out -- it is Cathe Friedrich's STS (Shock Training System) series. It's in three cycles -- the first cycle is focused on muscle growth, the second on endurance, and the the third on strength. So, we need to do initial tests to figure out what our 'one rep max' is for each exercise, and then we can launch into this whole new way of training. It should be an adventure -- and Cathe Friedrich doesn't disappoint.
______________

[goddesslynne]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I posted this over on the rogue thread, too, but...

We have NEW TOYS in our gym! My roommate got some birthday money, and she chose to add to the gym equipment with it -- so we got a second weight bench with ... a SQUAT RACK! I have been wanting one of those for a very long time!!

We're about to start a new system for working out -- it is Cathe Friedrich's STS (Shock Training System) series. It's in three cycles -- the first cycle is focused on muscle growth, the second on endurance, and the the third on strength. So, we need to do initial tests to figure out what our 'one rep max' is for each exercise, and then we can launch into this whole new way of training. It should be an adventure -- and Cathe Friedrich doesn't disappoint.
______________

Very excited to see how this is for you!! A squat rack for home!! How awesome!!

[sunday]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Here ya go. Feedback welcome! Let me know if it doesn't work.

Thyroid and Adrenals 101.doc - 4shared.com - document sharing - download

Thank you very much for this! Really is very helpful.
The one thing that I am concerned about is the fact that you discourage the use of Armour Thyroid. If I don't use natural thyroid, I am not sure I can be medicated? I have tried Synthroid and didn't do well, it caused me to be anxious and have heart palpitations when I would lie down to sleep.

Which thyroid meds are you taking?
My last fasting thyroid test was

TSH 4.25
T-4, Free 1.21

I was very low on Vit. D and way too high on Calcium.
I was RX 1 mg Armour.

[sunday]

Mini, Great to hear about your workout equipment! Cathe Friedrich looks amazing. I am impressed with her youtube videos! I bet her workout is perfect also.

As for your plan, I think you have figured it out! It is great to watch how well you know your body and perceive how to adjust.

On the no dairy, you don't have to give up butter if you switch to Purity Farms Organic Ghee. It is Casein & Lactose free and is amazing. It is a bit pricy, so I use it sparingly.

As for cheese, you should read a blog by "The Super Allergy Girl". She has found a great cheese replacement called, "Daiya" and it is Non-Dairy, Gluten free, Milk-Free, Casein-Free "Cheese". See her 2.8.11 post for info.
She has a wealth of info on allergens.

[minimonkey]

Thanks for the blog suggestion, Sunday -- I'll check it out!

I feel a bit less swollen everyday, though the scale hasn't moved down -- but at least it also hasn't moved up any further. Looks like this weight is here to stay for the time being, barring doing something rash like going back to p2. I'll hang with the no dairy thing for a bit and hope that makes a change.

I don't know if I have anything figured out, really -- but I do know that I can't stand living in a depleted state forever.

I read a bit more about post-contest rebound/edema last night -- it's a huge problem for many -- even most-- figure/bodybuilding competitors.

I have some ghee -- but honestly, I am perfectly happy to use coconut oil rather than butter. I don't think coconut causes me any problems, but at this point, who knows. ...

Yes, Cathe is amazing -- I love her as a workout instructor.

[TerriMM]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Terri --

Did I miss a post somewhere about you getting a nice drop from the No-S plan?

I went back and looked, but didn't find it (sometimes I cannot, for the life of me, find certain posts) --

In any event, whoo hoo on the loss!

Hey Mini!

Yes, thanks!! I lost 1.2 in five days doing low carb"ish" No S.

I say "ish" because I'm still have yogurt (occasionally), fruit (everyday) and a Latte breve if I really want one. For my S day yesterday I had one piece of peanut butter toast on whole grain bread, nuts and one Taco Bell taco, plus two Harvey Wallbangers when we went out with friends. (Talk about showing your age, I had to teach the youngsters working at the bar what a Wallbanger was ). Today I'm planning on making chocolate cherry yogurt with my treasured SF Whip cream on top. Other than that low-carbish. I'm also going to re-lazer HWC today.

Tomorrow I'm back on Low carb"ish" No S and we'll see where that gets me this Friday.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

Hey Mini!


Tomorrow I'm back on Low carb"ish" No S and we'll see where that gets me this Friday.

Terri,

Your chocolate cherri yogurt sounds amazing. Is it Greek or just regular yogurt? Also, is NO S, no sugar? Just curious. Thanks!

Mini~ Coconut Oil is amazing. I try not to overdue it. I have never had a fatbomb and just read up on how to make it. So, I think I will have to try it at least once.

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by sunday

Thank you very much for this! Really is very helpful.
The one thing that I am concerned about is the fact that you discourage the use of Armour Thyroid. If I don't use natural thyroid, I am not sure I can be medicated? I have tried Synthroid and didn't do well, it caused me to be anxious and have heart palpitations when I would lie down to sleep.

Which thyroid meds are you taking?
My last fasting thyroid test was

TSH 4.25
T-4, Free 1.21

I was very low on Vit. D and way too high on Calcium.
I was RX 1 mg Armour.

It's not that I discourage using natural thyroid (and if it reads that way, I will definitely need to go back and adjust--thanks for the feedback! ). It's more that if you have high RT3, natural can actually contribute to the problem since Armour has 38mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. If all those T4 mcgs are converting to RT3 instead of T3, it can exacerbate the problem.

Your labs...not a doctor nor do I play one on TV but wow that TSH is pretty high! From memory, I think free T4 recommendation is 1.4, no less and no more, so it looks like you may not be getting enough from your 1 grain (I am assuming you meant grain of Armour and not mg). Most people on natural need somewhere between 2 and 4 grains to get where they are feeling better. Have you had an RT3 test yet? On the vitamin D, what worked to get mine to optimal range (80+) was 10,000mg softgel daily (in the morning--it can keep you up at night) PLUS 5000mg liquid vitamin D. When I added the liquid, that's when my D really seemed to stick. The other major factor is iron. Iron really helps the whole T4 to T3 conversion. Have you had iron labs? Sorry...this is a true passion of mine!

I cleared my RT3 (it was over the top of range at 350 something) by taking T3 only. It takes about 12 weeks and it's not a comfortable process but I'm now optimized on T3-only. I've been considering trying natural (Naturethroid--probably) again to see if I still have a conversion problem or trying to introduce a little straight T4 but I'm a little leary to start messing around since what I am using is working for me. I am at 88mcg daily of T3 combined with 20mg HC, as I am also hypo-adrenal.

p.s. totally agree that Synthroid bites!

[TerriMM]

Originally Posted by sunday

Terri,

Your chocolate cherri yogurt sounds amazing. Is it Greek or just regular yogurt? Also, is NO S, no sugar? Just curious. Thanks!

Mini~ Coconut Oil is amazing. I try not to overdue it. I have never had a fatbomb and just read up on how to make it. So, I think I will have to try it at least once.

Hi Sunday,
No S is No Seconds, No Snacks, No Sweets except sometimes on S days (Saturday, Sunday, Special Days (your birthday, holidays, etc) and Sick days.

My favorite Chocolate Cherry Yogurt is 2% Greek Yogurt with Hershey's Dark Cocoa Powder, Truvia and SF Black Cherry Syrup. Really takes care of that Chocolate craving.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

Hi Sunday,
No S is No Seconds, No Snacks, No Sweets except sometimes on S days (Saturday, Sunday, Special Days (your birthday, holidays, etc) and Sick days.

My favorite Chocolate Cherry Yogurt is 2% Greek Yogurt with Hershey's Dark Cocoa Powder, Truvia and SF Black Cherry Syrup. Really takes care of that Chocolate craving.

Thanks Terri that sounds right up my alley! I am a blueberry and greek yogurt freak. So, chocolate sounds heavenly.

[TerriMM]

Yummmmmmmm, Chocolate Blue Berry!

[sunday]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

It's not that I discourage using natural thyroid (and if it reads that way, I will definitely need to go back and adjust--thanks for the feedback! ). It's more that if you have high RT3, natural can actually contribute to the problem since Armour has 38mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. If all those T4 mcgs are converting to RT3 instead of T3, it can exacerbate the problem.

Your labs...not a doctor nor do I play one on TV but wow that TSH is pretty high! From memory, I think free T4 recommendation is 1.4, no less and no more, so it looks like you may not be getting enough from your 1 grain (I am assuming you meant grain of Armour and not mg). Most people on natural need somewhere between 2 and 4 grains to get where they are feeling better. Have you had an RT3 test yet? On the vitamin D, what worked to get mine to optimal range (80+) was 10,000mg softgel daily (in the morning--it can keep you up at night) PLUS 5000mg liquid vitamin D. When I added the liquid, that's when my D really seemed to stick. The other major factor is iron. Iron really helps the whole T4 to T3 conversion. Have you had iron labs? Sorry...this is a true passion of mine!

I cleared my RT3 (it was over the top of range at 350 something) by taking T3 only. It takes about 12 weeks and it's not a comfortable process but I'm now optimized on T3-only. I've been considering trying natural (Naturethroid--probably) again to see if I still have a conversion problem or trying to introduce a little straight T4 but I'm a little leary to start messing around since what I am using is working for me. I am at 88mcg daily of T3 combined with 20mg HC, as I am also hypo-adrenal.

p.s. totally agree that Synthroid bites!

Okay, I am definitely going to go find me a good doctor to take care of this thyroid problem! I know by reading your info that I am probably in trouble with my numbers. You know... I feel pretty energetic and don't sleep/nap at all during the day? Some nights, I am sort of too alert and have to make myself go to sleep. Could this be from JUDDD or low carb?

The other thing is they did not do an iron test that my report shows, so I will call them in the morning. I am going back to read about the adrenals once more, because I was trying to capture all I could about thyroid that I sort of skimmed the adrenal issues. It sounds to me that you have a great doctor! I am a bit aggravated because the doc that put me on Armour is a weight loss doc, so it is bizarre that he would suggest the Armour??? I have always felt that my heart palpitations could be related to thyroid. I still get them now and then and they are very frustrating.

I can't thank you enough for this info!!! It is so important and I guess I assumed that I had my thyroid on the mend.

[shelbyla]

You may have your thyroid on the mend but it's always best to have blood tests to be sure. And I am actually my own doctor. I worked with some great patient advocacy groups to understand and learn about what I needed to do and how it can be done. I think the links are at the bottom of my document. They also just got 501(c) status and have a great new website...let me see if I can find the link. It's totally non-profit and there is no advertising or sales so it should be ok to post. (Mods please delete if we can't post stuff like this.)

https://eaware.org

[sunday]

Shelbyla, I am impressed that you did this on your own.

I wish I had taken this type of action. I actually went to the weightloss doc in 09 for help with my weight and he prescribed Hcg and the armour thyroid at the same time. I had been diagnosed as hypo before I saw him with my MD. Interestingly, my real MD started me out on Synthroid, and I remember complaining to her that I just didn't feel good on it and she told me that it would take time. I was peri-menopausal and I believe that my weight was really starting to get out of control because of my hormones as well as thyroid.

Thank you for the link. I am reading it right now!!!

[TerriMM]

If anyone is interested, we started a forum on Other Plans about No S. Please join us.

The No S Diet

[minimonkey]

Evening, all. Yes, Shelby, you are astounding with all your knowledge! We are so lucky to have you on this board

I'm still in water retention h#ll, and not having any luck getting that corrected. I still have an ultrasound scheduled, but I doubt it'll show much -- if it is the dairy, then I should start seeing some changes in the next couple of days, I'd think. If not, I am going to try a full elimination diet and see if I can pinpoint whatever sensitivities I might be having. It may just be a matter of waiting this out.

I did get in a truly killer legs workout this afternoon-- I am incredibly excited about the new workout series -- if we (roommate and I) can manage to keep this up regularly, we are going to be seriously strong on the other end of it!

[paulabob]

Up a smidge this morning after my rather disastrous church potluck. 130. It is just water from overdoing carbs. I did stick to my protein levels fairly okay over the weekend, and ate maintenance level calories both days.

[minimonkey]

Scale is exactly the same again today, here -- 129.6

Why, oh why, couldn't I have stabilized like this at goal????

At least I deserve some water retention today -- I worked out HARD yesterday.

Sticking with the no dairy for now, though I am not seeing any difference in the water retention from that so far.

This is pretty darn frustrating -- I can't cut out much more in terms of types of foods... I'm already low carb and now with the no dairy, that is pretty limiting.

Not counting calories but I know I am eating a lot less now than I was a couple of weeks ago due to greatly decreased hunger.

[TerriMM]

Hang in there Mini, at least you're not gaining and that's a huge improvement. Hopefully once your body stabilizes for a moment you'll start the fast track to losing again.

[minimonkey]

Yeah, Terri, I am trying to think of it in those terms, too -- the gains have stopped, the hunger is under control -- so at least it isn't getting any worse.

I'm thinking the water weight has to start dropping off at some point soon, right? So much of this is so clearly water -- it can't be good for me to be holding it forever though.

It is so tempting to do another round, because that does get the weight off fast, but then I think I'd be facing the same thing on the other end, particularly if it were a long round to goal. So, I'm just hitting the gym hard, and hoping I can milk a lot of muscle gains out of this.

[TerriMM]

That ol' HCG temptation will haunt us forever! I was just thinking today, well if this No S doesn't kick in for losses I could always do a round and No S for P3. Then the other voice in my head said "Fight It"

I won't say never, but I am trying not to look into the light.

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

i need fat too, so i eat some fat while i do my p2.

i eat whole eggs, string cheese, coconut milk...every day. plus fatty beef, 93/7 instead of 96/4. i'll eat cream cheese.

i still lose.

So when you eat the fats do you still try to keep it around 500 cals or do you eat more?

[dazygyrl]

no...i eat 700-800 cals when i am dosing. and 60-80g of protein (actual protein g not the weight of the meat). very little veggies.

i had to interrupt due to lots of social things this past weekend and the coming week. not worth trying to stick to protocol. a lot of eating out and i can't do big salads all the time.

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by goddesslynne

It's hard to believe how much weight I have put on considering that I don't eat sugar, bread, grains of any kind, fruit (except for above), beans or starches. But, I think the processed food of mf isn't good for me, so it will probably have to go as well. I'm just not sure how to proceed. I've really become dependent on it.

I say the same exact thing about myself! I don't eat sugar, wheat or really any grains...and yet I still have a hard time stabilizing! I even cut dairy out and that seemed to help some. Just frustrating because it's not like I'm eating candy bars, fast food burgers on white rolls and Doritos!

[Nicole T]

Has anyone here tried the Carbohydrate Addicts Diet? I like the lack of deprivation with it but still holding true to the basic low-carb philosophy.

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

That ol' HCG temptation will haunt us forever! I was just thinking today, well if this No S doesn't kick in for losses I could always do a round and No S for P3. Then the other voice in my head said "Fight It"

I won't say never, but I am trying not to look into the light.

STAY THE COURSE!!! (Can't help but laugh, though)

Originally Posted by Nicole T

Has anyone here tried the Carbohydrate Addicts Diet? I like the lack of deprivation with it but still holding true to the basic low-carb philosophy.

Nicole, I bought the book and I was tempted to try it but never did. I like the idea of it, though. As long as you don't go crazy with that one free meal and keep the plate portioned the way they say to, (Like a pie cut into three sections) it should work fine. I remember that it said if you go back for more of any one thing on the plate, you have to eat the same amount of each of the other sections. That kind of makes going back for more a whole lot less tempting.

Mini, goodness gracious! Can that Dr do some allergy testing (like skin pricks)? Might be a heck of a lot easier than using your body as a science project. I want to see you happy and healthy again.

[goddesslynne]

Originally Posted by Nicole T

I say the same exact thing about myself! I don't eat sugar, wheat or really any grains...and yet I still have a hard time stabilizing! I even cut dairy out and that seemed to help some. Just frustrating because it's not like I'm eating candy bars, fast food burgers on white rolls and Doritos!

I feel the same way a lot of the time!!

It scares me to think of what would happen if I ate with abandon, when gaining is what happens when I "watch it" and low-carb!!