Atkins/Other Plans after HCG

[sunday]

Paula~ I am interested in trying this plan while JUDDDing and see what happens. I stayed up way too late reading her info and I have to agree about the blood sugar and fruit. So tragic, because I am in love with my blueberries and Greek Yogurt and fresh peaches.

She gives much info on how to get the Metabolic Blood Tests done and I will definitely have this done if for nothing else to find out where I stand with Leptin and Fasting Insulin.

Mini~ I think you have a fantastic plan and so happy to know that you are getting to the bottom of your issues! I am so impressed how well you listen to your body and that is one thing that I learned from the protocol that is worth it's weight in gold. Listen to what your body is saying, because it will give you better advice than any medical professional.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

Paula, can you post what you eat? I read the OD and I cannot get how to get the fat high, protein low.. and the carbs that low too. I thought the calories were higher than 900 for that diet??? Is the sugarfreeprotocol using HCG? Every time I try to find that one, I just get the People starting and their beginning stats and not just the "protocol" information, but I always see HCG in there...

Lynne - how are the Real Dose Nutrition working for you??

Cathy, I stayed up and read the "sugarfreegoodies blog" last night and "no" hcg or hhcg whatsoever. You do the low calorie (800-900) only during the 2 to 3 weeks of weight loss and then you have to maintain for at least a month before you are allowed to try and lose more weight. I think the food list is not as specific as what you can't eat, which is no sugar. You should have higher fat (preferably animal fat), lower your protein, and add starch in the form of veggies. It is very interesting because they want for you to test your blood glucose as you go. I am debating on whether to test as I go. I have a feeling having SIRT-1 going strong with IF will sort of take care of this one factor.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

Paula, can you post what you eat? I read the OD and I cannot get how to get the fat high, protein low.. and the carbs that low too. I thought the calories were higher than 900 for that diet??? Is the sugarfreeprotocol using HCG? Every time I try to find that one, I just get the People starting and their beginning stats and not just the "protocol" information, but I always see HCG in there...?

Oh sugarfree goodies doesn't use (and is against) hcg. She recommends 700-800 calories per day for 2 weeks, then 4 weeks maintenance, and repeat. Plus she recommends using blood sugar meters and unreal amounts of leefy green veggies...I'm not really following that, but more like the optimal diet with lower fat...until I'm ready to maintain, then will really up it crazy.

Yesterday wasn't a good day to post...had 2 glasses of wine plus a few tablespoons of pimento spread.

Here's what I had Wednesday:
Lunch
Rutabagas - Raw, 100 g 36
Spinach - Raw, 4 cup 28
Homemade - Beef Shank Cross Cut - Steak or Roast****, 4 oz Cooked 228
Schepps - Heavy Whipping Cream , 2 tablespoon 100
Celery - Raw, 1 stalk large (11"-12" long) 9
Butter - Salted, 0.5 tbsp 51
Quick Added Calories, 30 calories 30
482 14 23 33 7
Dinner
Lettuce - Red leaf, raw, 4 cup shredded 18
Eggs - Whole, raw, 1 large 74
Egg Yolk - Large , 1 large egg 54
Oil - Olive, 0.5 tablespoon 60 0
Cheese - Parmesan, grated, 0.5 oz 61
Fresh - Yellow Bell Pepper - Chopped, 1/4 cup 20
Generic - Baby Corn (Fancy Small Whole - 3 Serv./Can), 4 whole baby corns 15 Cheetos - Cheetos Crunchy, 0.15 ounce 24 2 2 0 0
326 16 23 17 4
Snacks
Louana - Pure Coconut Oil, 0.16 Tbsp (14g) 19
Yogurt - Homemade Long Ferment Whole Milk Yogurt, 1 Cup 128
147 5 10 9 0

Totals 955 35 56 59 11

You can see I'm not very perfect! But got 59 grams protein, 24 net carbs...working my way up to 30 net carbs next week and will keep pushing that envelope.

Basically I have a small serving of meat with lunch, then 1/2 serving (or dab of eggs) with supper. I'm having to limit my cheese since it's too easy to get a lot of protein that way, for me anyways!

My aim if 50 grams of protein a day (based on 110 final goal, divide by 2.2), 25-40 net carbs, and fat just falls where it will. Not quite there yet, but getting closer. I'm actually having beans on my mexican salad at lunch today....that's a first time in years! The theory is starchy carbs are better than fruity/sugary carbs. I can't quite figure out why, but willing to give it a shot.

Anyways if you do the optimal diet and want the fat high for closer to maintenance calories, folks add a lot of pure fats (butter, heavy cream, coconut oil, avocado, brie and fat heavy cheese) or simply choose really fatty cuts of meat.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by sunday

Paula~
She gives much info on how to get the Metabolic Blood Tests done and I will definitely have this done if for nothing else to find out where I stand with Leptin and Fasting Insulin.

Oh, I hope you will share results, that sounds really cool to have those tests!

[sunday]

Thanks Paula! I am going to do try this with JUDDD and will keep you all updated. I feel so relieved to know about the Insulin Resistance and hcg. I believe that could have been a factor for me because in every single person that I watched do the protocol, we all had our fruit. I am wondering if I should stick with 60 gr of protein or lower? I am at 173 lbs. Where do you find the percentages? Thank you!!!

[catjrow3]

Thank you Paula and Sunday... I hate dieting... LOL ~~~ they all sound like crap. I would love a nice high carb diet that helps you lose weight! haha... I love my yogurt, and I love fruit....(particularly watermelon) and just want to eat those and lose weight! (dont i wish!!)

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by sunday

Thanks Paula! I am going to do try this with JUDDD and will keep you all updated. I feel so relieved to know about the Insulin Resistance and hcg. I believe that could have been a factor for me because in every single person that I watched do the protocol, we all had our fruit. I am wondering if I should stick with 60 gr of protein or lower? I am at 173 lbs. Where do you find the percentages? Thank you!!!

I read several things and decided this was the formula I was ended up with:

Take your final goal weight and divide by 2.2 - that will be the protein grams you shoot for. Take that number and multiply by 0.5 and 0.8 - that will be your range of net carbs. For optimal diet, fat grams is the protein grams * 1.5 to 3.5 depending on how fast you want to lose. I'm just ignoring that and trying to stick to 800-900 calories during the week and maintenance calories during the weekend since I'm not up for a "hard core" kind of thing right now.

I am by no means an authority, this is just what I decided to do. I found lots of conflicting advice out there. Apparently that is what you get when the diet book is written in Polish.

[catjrow3]

Its hard to get the fat up that high! Mine came out to like 160 g of fat..(which is 1440 calories) and then protein 65g, which is 260 and 51 c which is like 204 and it comes to like 1900 or some calories... but 1440 of fat! I have a hard time with that, and my protein and carbs go over too!! BOO!

[sunday]

Okay, I need to study up on Optimal diet, I was thinking this may be close to Primal/Paleo, but it sounds like it may not? I love fat, but the problem is that I also love fruit. Dropping fruit is one thing that I will only be glad to do, if I am losing weight. So, here I go with my scientific experiment. I am coming back to let you know what my numbers will be.

I am determined to make my weight loss continue to be as painfree as possible.

[TerriMM]

Sounds like some of the Fat Fast recipes would be helpful raising fat without raising the protein so much.

[catjrow3]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

Sounds like some of the Fat Fast recipes would be helpful raising fat without raising the protein so much.

I read through them, but all I ever get is cream cheese, avocado and cream. Cannot sustain on that for me...

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by goddesslynne

I'm checking it out, too!! Fascinating!! Truly!!

Looks like she is absolutely recommending NO hcg, although I'm unclear about her stance on hhcg, I suspect it's the same. I still have a lot of reading to do.

I'm very interested in reading more about the Ask the Doc thing. Could be a real boon for some of us!!

Does anyone know who the person is behind "Sugar Free" or where to find this? I am asking because I suspect it is someone that I've interacted with. She is a significant proponent of Dr. Kwasniewski's. I actually followed this protocol under her (if it is her) guidance for about 6 months. It didn't do much for my metabolism, my insulin resistance, or my thyroid.

[CherylB]

Wow, Girls!! It's almost impossible to keep up with you chatty women on this thread. I had to skim through or I'd never have gotten to a point where I could post.

Originally Posted by MsHistory

Sunday - you seriously just posted my EXACT story with HCG. Lost it, maintained, went on a trip and gained, and then BAM, LDW+10. My biggest problem with trying round 2&3 (about 5 times each) was that since I KNEW I could lose the weight, it was harder to take it seriously and not just say "Oh well, I know I'll be able to do it when I REALLY want to."

I got new hcg (intermountain) and am soooooo loving it. I'm not even counting calories, and it's working SO much better than the other brands I used. Hoping this round gets me to goal, and then I can work on tightening! (And also work on not allowing myself to fall back into the pattern of crappy carbs... again).

That was EXACTLY my problem. When I did my long extended first round with scattered refeeds in there to allow for living, I did my best. After that, every round I attempted just faded away into something else. And it was always that thought that I could relose whatever I was regaining in such a rapid fashion that gave me the false sense of control Now I have so much to lose and could never get off the ground again.

Originally Posted by catjrow3

Thank you Paula and Sunday... I hate dieting... LOL ~~~ they all sound like crap. I would love a nice high carb diet that helps you lose weight! haha... I love my yogurt, and I love fruit....(particularly watermelon) and just want to eat those and lose weight! (dont i wish!!)

Cathy, so if you eat those foods you gain? Even when you keep the calories low? I can lose eating that way but I can't eat all I want. Actually, I'm beginning to eat that way for the rest of the summer. I lost well last summer and got to my lowest weight at the beginning of September before I totally derailed and started going up, up and up.

[catjrow3]

Originally Posted by CherylB

Cathy, so if you eat those foods you gain? Even when you keep the calories low? I can lose eating that way but I can't eat all I want. Actually, I'm beginning to eat that way for the rest of the summer. I lost well last summer and got to my lowest weight at the beginning of September before I totally derailed and started going up, up and up.

No, I cannot eat this way and lose. I cannot eat carbs in any quantity, especially breads/pastas etc. Watermelon, smeh, can go either way, but its high in sugar!! I also cannot control once I start with carbs, a little makes me want more...

[minimonkey]

Howdy, oh chatty ones!

No scale change over here today -- I was hoping some of the water would have left, but no... at least it isn't still going up, though. TOM is still hanging on, so that is probably a part of the picture.

I read through a lot of the sugarfree site last night, and although I found it interesting, I'm not convinced that she's right about all of that. I definitely see her point about the hcg and the potential for damage, though!

Shelby, if you find out who it is, I'd love to know if this is the same person you followed.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Does anyone know who the person is behind "Sugar Free" or where to find this? I am asking because I suspect it is someone that I've interacted with. She is a significant proponent of Dr. Kwasniewski's. I actually followed this protocol under her (if it is her) guidance for about 6 months. It didn't do much for my metabolism, my insulin resistance, or my thyroid.

I have been reading a bit more on the participants to her protocol. I still can't find a name??? But anyway, most everyone that has success with her protocol are either Insulin or Leptin Resistent or have Metabolic XX Syndrome and have not been able to maintain losses with Hcg or even in many of their cases, could not lose at all on strict hcg protocol?

I have a close friend who did the Rx hcg through a doctor and she only lost 16lbs in 45 days. It was her very first time to do the protocol and I was very disappointed as she was, but felt that something had to be going on??? I am very discouraged that her doctor didn't offer any support. So we discussed this because she spent about $700 and did this because I told her about the protocol. After reading sugarfree's blog, I suspect that she is one of these who this is directed at. She confirmed that she ate fruit, either strawberries and apples at both meals.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Does anyone know who the person is behind "Sugar Free" or where to find this? I am asking because I suspect it is someone that I've interacted with. She is a significant proponent of Dr. Kwasniewski's. I actually followed this protocol under her (if it is her) guidance for about 6 months. It didn't do much for my metabolism, my insulin resistance, or my thyroid.

I don't know and I always think - buyer beware...things don't work the same for everyone. Was it a low calorie protocol with a blood sugar meter? Or the higher optimal diet fat ratio? Just curious...

[minimonkey]

I think I am going to have to make peace with my current bodily state for a little while, unless I want to risk doing something drastic to change it.

Paula -- NONE of my goal clothes fit at all -- 20 lbs on me is 4 pants sizes! Luckily, I do have clothes in several sizes lying around, having been through so many size changes over the years.

I'm going out with my roommate tonight (her birthday was yesterday) -- and although I really feel a lot like hiding out in sweats, I am going to buck up and go out anyhow....

I'm going to do my best to embrace this currently curvy body and work with it -- I've got a bit of the Kim Khardashian (sp?) look going on right now, lol. At least a good deal of the gain was in my cleavage I'll be rockin' my spilling-over-F-cup bounty tonight.

If the gains everywhere else would go away and just leave that alone, that would be okay with me (Cheryl, remember all that talk with Mousie about me missing my 'enormous rack"????) Well, my enormous rack is back, and it's going out on the town tonite

[minimonkey]

Sunday -- I think I remember you posting about your friend -- was she cheating on the protocol, or am I confusing that with someone else?

I suspect you are right about her having something metabolic going on.

I'd love to have the blood tests of leptin, etc., but given my insurance and funding situation, that just isn't going to happen, sadly. The rest of it would probably drive me nuts -- I just don't have it in me to be testing things all the time.

I am assuming I have rather major insulin resistance, and just eat accordingly.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

(Cheryl, remember all that talk with Mousie about me missing my 'enormous rack"????) Well, my enormous rack is back, and it's going out on the town tonite

Have a great time!

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

No, I cannot eat this way and lose. I cannot eat carbs in any quantity, especially breads/pastas etc. Watermelon, smeh, can go either way, but its high in sugar!! I also cannot control once I start with carbs, a little makes me want more...

Boo hiss! Sorry, Cathy. Some carbs set me off that way but fruit and other stuff doesn't. That makes it tough, I'll bet.

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I think I am going to have to make peace with my current bodily state for a little while, unless I want to risk doing something drastic to change it.

Paula -- NONE of my goal clothes fit at all -- 20 lbs on me is 4 pants sizes! Luckily, I do have clothes in several sizes lying around, having been through so many size changes over the years.

I'm going out with my roommate tonight (her birthday was yesterday) -- and although I really feel a lot like hiding out in sweats, I am going to buck up and go out anyhow....

I'm going to do my best to embrace this currently curvy body and work with it -- I've got a bit of the Kim Khardashian (sp?) look going on right now, lol. At least a good deal of the gain was in my cleavage I'll be rockin' my spilling-over-F-cup bounty tonight.

If the gains everywhere else would go away and just leave that alone, that would be okay with me (Cheryl, remember all that talk with Mousie about me missing my 'enormous rack"????) Well, my enormous rack is back, and it's going out on the town tonite

Four pant sizes? Oh, man. Mini, that must be hard to take. When you've been nearly at goal and then have to deal with that kind of nonsense, it's almost worse than if we'd never tasted sweet victory. The lbs feel so much heavier the second or third time around. I'm pretty miserable under all this regained weight, too. I know you'll get it figured out eventually. Still praying for you.

Was it an "enormous rack"? I think there was a different adjective there. Was if "fabulous rack"? I think it was something else! That will bug me now until it comes back to me. Anyway, go out and strut that stuff tonight! (The Kardashian look is very in right now.)

[sunday]

Mini, She wasn't the one who cheated, but yes the friend who cheated ended up doing the protocol forever. She could have done the same damage as well.

[minimonkey]

Disney, I am guessing you are right about this rapid gain being from eating normal amounts of food again. I do look forward to the water weight dropping down, though, because it is really uncomfortable and even a bit painful.

I figure if I am serious about wanting to bodybuild (and I am) that I will need to get used to my body changing from time to time, depending on whether I am focusing on building muscle or leaning out ... I'm hoping the changes won't be this drastic and fast ever again, because I will be taking a much more sane approach to it all (no more crash dieting) -- but there will be changes, regardless.

Thanks a million for everyone's support -- this is a big head trip, and it isn't easy -- but I hope I am handling it as well as I can.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I am assuming I have rather major insulin resistance, and just eat accordingly.

I am needing to find out for my own sanity. It looks like for Leptin and Insulin panels it would be around $85. I already have my thyroid panels.

If I am truly broken, that would explain the painfully slow weight loss. In my case, I have very good energy and I don't suffer with swelling, or water retention or really any health issues, so that leads me to wonder???

When everyone around me is losing like gangbusters, I guess I want to see more good come from my method. Even if it is mad.

[minimonkey]

It was "enormous rack", lol! I think there might have been other adjectives in there as well, but that was the one I latched onto!

Yes, thank goodness my body is "in" right now, lol! I feel so fashionable!

Cheryl -- yes, it is hard to take in some ways, and it could be causing me a major head crash if I let it ... but I am not going to let it do that to me. I am vain, yes... but not THAT vain -- and this is a good reminder that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes, and that I can't let my appearance determine my self worth.

I've put up some major psychological armor against letting this crash me into a pit of depression.

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

It was "enormous rack", lol! I think there might have been other adjectives in there as well, but that was the one I latched onto!

Yes, thank goodness my body is "in" right now, lol! I feel so fashionable!

Cheryl -- yes, it is hard to take in some ways, and it could be causing me a major head crash if I let it ... but I am not going to let it do that to me. I am vain, yes... but not THAT vain -- and this is a good reminder that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes, and that I can't let my appearance determine my self worth.

I've put up some major psychological armor against letting this crash me into a pit of depression.

Yea!!!

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by sunday

I have been reading a bit more on the participants to her protocol. I still can't find a name??? But anyway, most everyone that has success with her protocol are either Insulin or Leptin Resistent or have Metabolic XX Syndrome and have not been able to maintain losses with Hcg or even in many of their cases, could not lose at all on strict hcg protocol?

I have a close friend who did the Rx hcg through a doctor and she only lost 16lbs in 45 days. It was her very first time to do the protocol and I was very disappointed as she was, but felt that something had to be going on??? I am very discouraged that her doctor didn't offer any support. So we discussed this because she spent about $700 and did this because I told her about the protocol. After reading sugarfree's blog, I suspect that she is one of these who this is directed at. She confirmed that she ate fruit, either strawberries and apples at both meals.

Originally Posted by paulabob

I don't know and I always think - buyer beware...things don't work the same for everyone. Was it a low calorie protocol with a blood sugar meter? Or the higher optimal diet fat ratio? Just curious...

I was a follower of something and someone similar back in the very early days of "Leptin resistance." (I'm pretty sure it is her.) According to her I had all of the above, based on my blood tests, temperatures and glucose levels. According to her, I needed Metformin, some other drug she was advocating at the time (can't remember offhand), and the Optimal diet. According to her, this would "fix" me. Following this guidance for about six months, I had lost exactly zero weight, my temps weren't going up, and my blood sugar wasn't going down. I had mad cravings, nasty thyroid levels, skin problems, and was falling asleep on my way to work in the mornings.

My biggest issue with this leader of the group at the time was that she usually had a "current philosophy" that she advocated and ANYONE who dared question her conclusions was ridiculed on her blog/group, told that they were stupid, didn't research correctly, or didn't bother to read the archives before asking the question--usually in those words. They were often either warned off or had their membership revoked. It was less about open dialogue and honest questions and more about "how DARE you question ME?!" And any time she changed her mind--based on additional research, even if someone had brought it to her attention earlier--that became her new "bible." It was really her way or the highway, whatever her way happened to be at that particular moment.

At least through her, I ended up finding the yahoo groups that helped me through my thyroid and adrenal issues and which led eventually to this group. (For which I will be eternally grateful! )

I know hcg isn't for everyone but I do think that a blanket statement of "it doesn't work and will ruin your metabolism" is going too far--and it also really smacks of what I ran into previously. I'm sure the blog has got some really great stuff but I don't think (as Paula said) that one size of ANYTHING fits all.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

I'm sure the blog has got some really great stuff but I don't think (as Paula said) that one size of ANYTHING fits all.

I'm so glad you shared all that with us! I have not joined the site or commented on the blogs, but am simply following with interest. I think we should all carefully analyze any choices we make. Especially after doing all those icy cold baths aka Leptin Reset Jack Kruse style. Only gained weight with that... I guess I get more and more skeptical with age...but still willing to try new things.

[minimonkey]

Yeah, Shelby, there's a hint of that flavor in what I read already -- I think some of the info is interesting, but there is something a bit offputting in the delivery of it.

Paula -- I draw the line at icy cold baths! No way, no how, am I going there! I do like going from hot tub to ice plunge back to hot when I happen to be hottubbing, but otherwise, forget it.

[minimonkey]

I am more or less following the leptin guidelines at the moment. Breakfast is the biggest meal, I don't snack, etc. Low carb, moderate protein, high fat. We'll see where it gets me.

Hunger is low again today. I ate a second meal, but wasn't really that hungry for it. I want to keep the calories high-ish for the next couple of days at least, but after that, if I am not hungry, I am just going to run with that.

I suspect I may end up IFing by default -- my body seems naturally to gravitate to that is all else is in balance.