~p3-p4-simeons-protocol-week-06-24~

[Bitsky]

thank you for the replies. I am going to just keep trying, too far in the game to just give up now.
My last VLCD ended terrible, I had a burer pattie and half a bun and later that night a lot of chips. Totally lost control, don't even know what I was thinking...I was so looking forward to P3. So then yesterday I did a high protein day. Morning I had 2 hard boiled eggs salt and pepper, 2 tiny links of sausage and about a T of light cheese melted into one of those cracker things. Then water all day and a huge top sirloin BB-q'd with hot sauce and spices for supper, almost a lb of meat I'd say by the time I cut around the yucky bits. I tried to get some tomato down but I have a hard time with that. A lot of sugar free gum was chewed yesterday...I haven't had an issue with that all program so I didn't think that would be bad. I had a small piece of the steak when we got home last night (late) since there was some left over. I was really hoping for a big loss today. But yes, my bm's haven't been as ... good? as before lol. I was quite regular this whole time, until I went crazy and started eating the day before P3... On another forum I'm told I didn't lose today because I should have done a steak day. You can't substitute anything for a steak day and that what you eat the first 72 hrs you're off the drops pretty much determines how things are going to be... so I may have really messed things up. I'm doing a traditional and strict steak day today! and tomorrow...that scale better go down at least under my LDW. But now I'll be really scared to eat anything....and I was soooo looking forward to almond flour pancakes... Any tips on how to cope with the hunger during the steak day?!?! I have a few hours to go till supper time here, it's noon. lol good thing I slept in. Just chug the water right? I'm doing an apple with my steak tonight!

[suzi7]

wow. if all you can have for first three days of P3 is steak... I'm screwed. sorry. I am a lacto-ova vegetarian... on phase 3 for 10 days now and have only had one day "over the limit". I eat high protein (just not meat) and now for P3 full fat. plus allowed veggies. My advice for P3 for what its worth... as a R1, only 10 days on P3 person...

stay off the net carbs completely (well as completely as you can) for P3. That includes crackers and those (gag) grissoni. And be VERY careful about those sneaky sugars (all those sugars that manufacturers put in and try to "disguise" by giving them fancy names. I know there is a good list of these on the Phase 3 information for HCG stickie/ thread. Phase 3 information for HCG diet

the first three NON-drop days are to be done P2.... same diet you followed for all those days of P2, same 500 calories. DO NOT STRAY and get ahead of yourself. P3 will come.

Add new stuff SLOWLY.... I add a veggie or fruit at a time, then give it a couple days (nothing else new) to make sure that my poor body doesn't over react to it. (did the same with cheese, which was my first addition).

STEAK DAYS are CD (correction days). They are for when, on P3, you weigh in and find yourself more than 2 pounds over your LDW (last dose-day weight). Again there is a list of these on the thread I linked to above. My fav is shake day (yummy! I want to do this every day.... please???? do I have to go over 2 pounds???)

I'm sure there's tons more but this is what I have tried... (not the steak days lol) and so far so good....

Hope you stabilize and work out the "bumps"....

[suzi7]

btw... I came back home and thought "one more time..." before I start pulling stuff apart. and ITS A MIRACLE.. (ok its unexplainable anyway), the old girl fired right up. so....

I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN when I went public and posted on all my sites about me being computer-less, she would start up and make a fool of me.

But seriously I am just rejoicing.... cuz now I don't have to spend $100 that I don't really have right now. lol....

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Bitsky

But now I'll be really scared to eat anything....and I was soooo looking forward to almond flour pancakes... Any tips on how to cope with the hunger during the steak day?!?! I have a few hours to go till supper time here, it's noon. lol good thing I slept in. Just chug the water right? I'm doing an apple with my steak tonight!

Do not be afraid of P3! You messed up, you move on, you learn from your mistakes. You do NOT do starch or sugar in P3 and you have learned that lesson big time

I always have coffee all day long on my steak days. I have it with cream and it sticks with me so I can last til dinner time. I also do my steak early--I eat at 5 PM instead of 6:30-7PM when I am doing steak. I usually don't last and hold out for my traditional dinner time. You can have tea if you don't like coffee. Biz (another forum I am on) says that her clients do best with a raw tomato on a steak day. But if you cannot stomach it, then the apple is your best bet! Good luck!!!

I don't know what cracker thingy you are talking about but P3 is to be done with NO STARCH and NO SUGAR. Strict rules!!!! You will not stabilize if you include crackers.

[minimonkey]

Guys -- it sounds like Bitsky had one of those "I don't know what came over me" days Those last non-hcg days are rough -- and yes, ideally they should be done like regular p2 days before beginning p3.

I think Suzi and Dawn are referring to the general confusion as to whether we should continue the melba/grissini in p3 -- most agree that the answer is no. So, whatever the "cracker things" are that you are eating, they probably aren't suitable for p3.

A lot of protocol people insist that the only correction day that works is a steak day, but many people have found that other correction days work well for them too.

A lot of folks do run into problems with things like almond flour on p3 -- the general wisdom is to add those things in slowly, once you are stable. For the first week or two of p3, it is a good idea to add proteins and more veggies. That said, the transition to p3, no matter how clean, often causes a jump up of two or so lbs on the scale for most people.

Good luck getting back on target, Bitsky. Do a couple of clean, high protein days, and I bet you get right back into your target window.

[minimonkey]

Great news about the computer, Suzi! Let's hope it continues to behave

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Guys -- it sounds like Bitsky had one of those "I don't know what came over me" days Those last non-hcg days are rough -- and yes, ideally they should be done like regular p2 days before beginning p3.

I think Suzi and Dawn are referring to the general confusion as to whether we should continue the melba/grissini in p3 -- most agree that the answer is no. So, whatever the "cracker things" are that you are eating, they probably aren't suitable for p3.

A lot of protocol people insist that the only correction day that works is a steak day, but many people have found that other correction days work well for them too.

A lot of folks do run into problems with things like almond flour on p3 -- the general wisdom is to add those things in slowly, once you are stable. For the first week or two of p3, it is a good idea to add proteins and more veggies. That said, the transition to p3, no matter how clean, often causes a jump up of two or so lbs on the scale for most people.

Good luck getting back on target, Bitsky. Do a couple of clean, high protein days, and I bet you get right back into your target window.

I agree...upping protein...all kinds of it...yummy:think steak...sausages...bacon...eggs...hamburger...chic ken wings...low-carb...and adding veggies...butter..e.tc.is best...I know we tend to go crazy with the "fun" stuff w/ almond flour...art. sweeteners...etc...our bodies don't KNOW what to do w/ it. I imagine in Dr. S's day...people prolly didn't have to do correction days as often... because they didn't have all the stuff we do now have. Clean low-carb eating is prolly your safest bet. When I went into P3... I ate low carb but added things I shouldn't have... I panicked because I didn't know what to do... now I am ready for my next P3.

[Bitsky]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Do not be afraid of P3! You messed up, you move on, you learn from your mistakes. You do NOT do starch or sugar in P3 and you have learned that lesson big time

I always have coffee all day long on my steak days. I have it with cream and it sticks with me so I can last til dinner time. I also do my steak early--I eat at 5 PM instead of 6:30-7PM when I am doing steak. I usually don't last and hold out for my traditional dinner time. You can have tea if you don't like coffee. Biz (another forum I am on) says that her clients do best with a raw tomato on a steak day. But if you cannot stomach it, then the apple is your best bet! Good luck!!!

I don't know what cracker thingy you are talking about but P3 is to be done with NO STARCH and NO SUGAR. Strict rules!!!! You will not stabilize if you include crackers.

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement!! The cheese cracker thing is just cheese microwaved for a bit, they come out crispy but pliable so you can shape it how you want. Some people use them for taco shells. I just used it as a cracker just to eat with my eggs and sausage. I had a coffee with cream and then some of my DBF's whip cream from his ice cap in my coffee too....it was yummy. I sure hope this steak day goes well. It's almost time to eat, just bought a steak and I'm going to fry it in coconut oil instead of BB-Q'ing it like I normally do. I guess even though I'm trying to lose weight here I want to cook my steak in fat.... just seems wierd, I think that's why I get confused sometimes, especially if I don't have access to the forum when I'm out and about lol

[Bitsky]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Guys -- it sounds like Bitsky had one of those "I don't know what came over me" days Those last non-hcg days are rough -- and yes, ideally they should be done like regular p2 days before beginning p3.

I think Suzi and Dawn are referring to the general confusion as to whether we should continue the melba/grissini in p3 -- most agree that the answer is no. So, whatever the "cracker things" are that you are eating, they probably aren't suitable for p3.

A lot of protocol people insist that the only correction day that works is a steak day, but many people have found that other correction days work well for them too.

A lot of folks do run into problems with things like almond flour on p3 -- the general wisdom is to add those things in slowly, once you are stable. For the first week or two of p3, it is a good idea to add proteins and more veggies. That said, the transition to p3, no matter how clean, often causes a jump up of two or so lbs on the scale for most people.

Good luck getting back on target, Bitsky. Do a couple of clean, high protein days, and I bet you get right back into your target window.

yes it seemed to be a few days long. I'm more disappointed in myself because I knew better. I don't know what happened. But I'm not giving up and I have to move on. But just so I know, tomorrow IF I wake up to no loss and I'm still 2lbs over my LDW do I do ANOTHER steak day? That would be 3 in a row. Or do I just come to grips with the fact my LDW as now been altered because of what I ate in the first 72hrs without drops...so I either be happy with that or plan to do another round in the future? Can anyone tell me if I could take a digestive enzyme or a probiotic with my steak? I think that may help with a BM. I was very regular there but the last couple days have been different.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Bitsky

Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement!! The cheese cracker thing is just cheese microwaved for a bit, they come out crispy but pliable so you can shape it how you want. Some people use them for taco shells. I just used it as a cracker just to eat with my eggs and sausage. I had a coffee with cream and then some of my DBF's whip cream from his ice cap in my coffee too....it was yummy. I sure hope this steak day goes well. It's almost time to eat, just bought a steak and I'm going to fry it in coconut oil instead of BB-Q'ing it like I normally do. I guess even though I'm trying to lose weight here I want to cook my steak in fat.... just seems wierd, I think that's why I get confused sometimes, especially if I don't have access to the forum when I'm out and about lol

Oh, well then. The cheese thingy is fine I eat a bit of cheese with my eggs at breakfast almost every day on P3. I love cheese and whipped cream too I always have a TBL of butter on top of my steak as well. The more fat the better! Good luck on the drop tomorrow. Gosh, now I cannot wait for my P3

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Bitsky

yes it seemed to be a few days long. I'm more disappointed in myself because I knew better. I don't know what happened. But I'm not giving up and I have to move on. But just so I know, tomorrow IF I wake up to no loss and I'm still 2lbs over my LDW do I do ANOTHER steak day? That would be 3 in a row. Or do I just come to grips with the fact my LDW as now been altered because of what I ate in the first 72hrs without drops...so I either be happy with that or plan to do another round in the future?

Sometimes I have what we call a "2-day effect" from a correction day. It means that if I do a correction day, I may not see the scale move the very next day, but the day after that (hence the 2-day) I will have a whoosh. Get ready for a whoosh!! Just eat a clean P3 day tomorrow and it will whoosh off. No worries. Cause worrying will bring on the weight gain too.

[Bitsky]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Sometimes I have what we call a "2-day effect" from a correction day. It means that if I do a correction day, I may not see the scale move the very next day, but the day after that (hence the 2-day) I will have a whoosh. Get ready for a whoosh!! Just eat a clean P3 day tomorrow and it will whoosh off. No worries. Cause worrying will bring on the weight gain too.

thanks! This is great, I feel better already. less panicky. I want to feel the whoosh!!!!

[minimonkey]

OMG... Steak fried in coconut oil sounds like pure, writhing all over the floor, drooling heaven to me. I MUST try that.

Two of my favorite things in one place ... NOM NOM NOM!!!!

[minimonkey]

Yes, those cheese "cracker things" are fine, lol! Also extremely yummy

I'm totally guilty of over-indulging in things like almond flour, flax concoctions, and so forth, and I am sure that has been some of my downfall on p3s past.

I'm trying to clean that up now as I embark on Atkins again ...

[LaraSuzz]

Hi all, I was MIA yesterday... stayed home from work. Over the weekends I've been going out to eat with my mom at buffets eating whateve I want but allowing myself one meal, no dinner or snack and it's been fine UNTIL I decided to eat one night and went up 4 lbs overnight, eeick! So there I was at home with the fridge calling my name, decided to do a low carb day and I'm back down, so as of today I'm 4 over. Which isn't ideal but I'm not going to sweat it. I cant decide what to do today tho... low carb again or steak day... I brought yogurt so I will try that and see.
I cant remember if p&I says anything about p4 just 3 weeks of p3... I will look it up and see. If so I wonder if I'm messing things up? My thought is no... and I'm doig another round in August anyway so... dunno if it should be an issue. i am on the 2nd week of P4.
Ugh I'm so undecided on choices today.

Lara

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I'm cruising along very happily in p3 right now -- still off the scale -- and since TOM is trying to start, that probably isn't a bad thing. I am definitely retaining a lot of water at the moment, which is rather miserable.

But I really feel, on a gut level, like what I need to do is eat sufficient low-carb, clean food for a while, no matter what the scale has to say about it. No JUDDD, no correction days, none of that -- just nourishing my body and letting it restore itself. I did too much p2 for way too long, and now I am dealing with the consequences of starving myself -- not fun, but at least I've broken the cycle, and that is a good thing.

I will get on the scale after TOM is over, so I know where I stand, and what is and isn't working at that point.

I am seriously sore today from my workout two days ago -- so taking another rest day today. Until my body heals and calms this inflammation back down, I need to be respectful of its limits. Plus, I've already gotten in several really good workouts this week, so I'm on track in that regard.

This approach is unusually sane for me, I might add.... I'd normally be in a panic and running straight back for another p2... so I deserve kudos for NOT doing that I know, though, that doing that would only make things worse in the long run, and that isn't what I want.

Hi minimonkey~

I see that you have been having a lot of issues with water retention. I just wanted to throw an idea out there to you. It may not be your cup of tea...but just wanted to share. Periodically I do have water retention...not so much now that I've lost weight. I have gone on the GM diet for a week. Have you ever heard of this? It truly WORKS! Pretty AMAZING. It totally strips you of excess fluids. It is a 7 day flush/detox...essentially. But you will generally not be hungry.

In a nutshell, it is:

The dieter is required to consume at least 10 glasses of water per day.

The GM diet includes a special cabbage soup, thus many refer to it as the Cabbage Soup diet. The ingredients in this soup include 28oz of water, 6 large-sized onions, 4 envelopes of Lipton onion soup mix, 1 head of cabbage, 2 green peppers, some celery, a few fresh tomatoes, a few herbs, and flavoring, if required.

The GM diet can be followed by both non-vegetarian as well as vegetarians. The General Motors diet follows a systematic method of food consumption, as given below:

Day 1: Only fruits, except for banana can be consumed. Dieters are advised to consume larger quantities of loupe and watermelon than other fruits. Canned fruit included.

Day 2: Only raw or cooked vegetables, rich in fiber, can be consumed. Dieters are advised to start their day with consuming a large baked potato with 1 pat of butter, to make sure the body gets the required carbohydrate content. The meals should not have an excess of spice or salt in them. Canned vegetables included.

Day 3: A mix of fruits and vegetables can be consumed. This should not include banana or potato. During the third day, the system begins the process of burning fat.

Day 4: 8 bananas and 3 glasses of milk should be consumed, to maintain the required levels of potassium and sodium that the body requires. The dieter can also consume the cabbage soup on this day in limited quantities.

Day 5: 2 oz lean beef or cottage cheese (for vegetarian) with 6 fresh tomatoes should be consumed, which will provide your body with the required iron and protein content. At least a quart of water needs to be consumed on the fifth day to flush out the uric acid produced in the body.

Day 6: Lean meat or cottage cheese can be consumed with an unlimited amount of vegetables.

Day 7: Only brown rice, fruit juices (no sugar added) and vegetables should be consumed. By the seventh day, the dieter begins to feel lighter, healthier, and more alert.

Google "7 day GM diet" for more info...

HTH

[LaraSuzz]

Just discovered something delicious... and wanted to share!

Trader Joes Greek full fat yogurt with Toriani SF Rasbperry syrup and blueberries, mmmmm!

[dbunny]

Load day one... and just realized I forgot to take my hhcg! Doh!

[julieboolie]

Dbunny- I've done that!! Hard to get back in the habit, isn't it?

I'm starting VLC days on Thurs . So I won't be posting over here anymore. I'm loading today and tomorrow (my aniversary) so I will be heading over to the P2 thread. All this P3 talk will be tough to take when I'm starving . Not really, but you KWIM .

I wish you all much success and love!! I'll be back in a few weeks, hopefully thinner and more comfy in my clothes!!

[LaraSuzz]

Aw Julieboolie I will miss you! Good luck with your round and see you skinnier very soon!

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

Dbunny- I've done that!! Hard to get back in the habit, isn't it?

I'm starting VLC days on Thurs . So I won't be posting over here anymore. I'm loading today and tomorrow (my aniversary) so I will be heading over to the P2 thread. All this P3 talk will be tough to take when I'm starving . Not really, but you KWIM .

I wish you all much success and love!! I'll be back in a few weeks, hopefully thinner and more comfy in my clothes!!

Good luck Julie! You will do great

[suzi7]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

Just discovered something delicious... and wanted to share!

Trader Joes Greek full fat yogurt with Toriani SF Rasbperry syrup and blueberries, mmmmm!

This site should have a like button! lol....

[suzi7]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

Dbunny- I've done that!! Hard to get back in the habit, isn't it?

I'm starting VLC days on Thurs . So I won't be posting over here anymore. I'm loading today and tomorrow (my aniversary) so I will be heading over to the P2 thread. All this P3 talk will be tough to take when I'm starving . Not really, but you KWIM .

I wish you all much success and love!! I'll be back in a few weeks, hopefully thinner and more comfy in my clothes!!

Wishing you success!

I have one more week here, then heading over myself (I am going to do my loading on my b-day weekend), as long as I keep stable (deviating by .2 for the last three days, even tho I pigged out majorly last night! holding my breath til tomorrow! (actually looking forward to R2... I am a sick puppy!)

[Bitsky]

Ok so I'm 3/4 of the way through my actual first day of P3. I just started using Fit Day to calculate things for me as opposed to writing it all down and then researching each calorie and gram. Fit Day is AWESOME
I just entered all my stuff for the day (I calculated supper in already) I'm doing pretty good as far as getting my daily calorie intake in, not feeling too hot though...really heavy and full. I'm up to 1700 cal and my max is 1800cal/day. What is a little off is my pie graph, my %'s are as follows:
fat=65%, protein=31% & carbs=4% / things I've read say you want to have fat=55%, protein=25% & carbs=20%. I'm not terribly off but does anyone have any tips on how to make small adjustments to give you the results you're looking for? I think I'm just still a little skeptical about eating certain things after not eating them for so long.
Also, now that I'm in P3 am I able to start taking my vitamins/enzymes again? I usually have on hand: digestive enzymes, probiotics, L-lysine for coldsores, L-Theanine is great for calming or feeling happy (I love these ones & they're chewable,taste like fruit punch) and I also have a calcium magesium with zinc. I only kept up my B12 while on P2, knock on wood even though I couldn't take my L-Lysine I didn't get a coldsore!!!!!!! Maybe ridding my body of certain foods/chemicals helped with that?! Anyway, just want to know if I can bring all these things back in as normal or if I should go slow and add one at a time.
One more question for today....well before supper anyway lol
I'm working out again and doing hot yoga, I also scrub my problem areas with a 'cellulite' scrubber I got from the Soap Berry Shop usually every other day. I can't seem to get rid of a spot about the size of my hand right in the middle of my stomach, if you were to put your hand (spread) over your belly button area...this is it! I have never had kids, nor have a I ever been really obese yet for some reason I cannot get that area to tighten up. Believe me, I'm doing ab work...lower, upper & obliques but nothing is taking the jiggly pudge away. My boobs on the other hand... much smaller! ... my DBF is a little sad about that lol I'm hoping with all the good fats I'm eating now in P3 will maybe put some fat back in those????

[suzi7]

first of all, please take your supps. lol. I took my probiotics the whole way thru P2 (also my mag and other stuff) I figured I was worth it. and you are too.

as to the weight-loss, I lucked out. 15 pounds, 12 inches lost on the "big three"... almost all in my stomach. I am now 40-30-40 basically (within a half inch on any); lost almost nothing up top. amazing. first diet I ever did that I didn't lose my girls. Course that might have been cuz I am taking BHRT (estrogen etc). I always had an hour-glass when I was younger; then the spread hit.... hoping the extra "bag" around the middle goes too. I managed to "re-sorb" most of the skin from my 100# loss over the last 8 years. course I take care of my skin and feed it well.

be kind to yourself during P3... indulge in some really indulgent cellulite-buster stuff. and enjoy!

[minimonkey]

Crazy PreK -- OMG, the GM diet is making me feel 10 years old again! That, along with the TWA stewardess' diet, were among the first diets I ever did (I started dieting at ten years old) .

It is crazy to think how much of my adult life has been spent on some kind of diet.

[minimonkey]

I think the water retention is from a number of things -- I have Lyme disease (mostly in remission) which is an inflammatory illness, so I am constantly battling systemic inflammation. Also, I think this is a reaction that my body has when I am living low calorie too long, and then start eating again -- particularly if I add weight training to the mix when I do start eating.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I am in perimenopause, and my hormones are a hot mess. That seems to be one of the biggest factors.

[minimonkey]

GOOD LUCK JULIE!!!!!!!!!!

[Bitsky]

Well suprisingly I was down again today! I still feel full of steak though from Sunday and Monday, bm's haven't been as great as before. I'm going to try the SM tea I guess because I don't like this 'full of crap' feeling LOL I tried PGX before HCG and that's something I hated about PGX, you felt REALLY full all the time, not just 'not hungry' but stuffed. I like the empty feeling sometimes. However just as in P2 I get a little worried when I feel hunger or have some growlies, especially in the morning. I panic and think I need to eat right away, I can't do that first thing so for the last 2 days I've had a protein shake (sugar,carb and fat free) then I get a coffee (newbie drinker) with cream, that usually gets me by till lunch. I also am enjoying the buzz!!
So yesterday it did seem like I ate lots, met my requirment for sure. Not a ton of veggies though, I need to try for more of those I guess. I'm kind of sick of them... I just haven't had time to go out and by 'other' veggies so everytime I open the fridge and see those little cukes...I want to gag...it got really hard at the end of P2 to keep eating the same old veggies I like out of the list of allowables. Anyway, I just want to say that this morning having that loss really made me feel good. It feels so good to NOT be over the LDW, i really have to keep that feeling in mind when I have the urge to cheat because the feeling of utter disappointment from eating junk is pretty depressing but that doesn't seem to always stop me. If I take both feelings into account that SHOULD be enough to keep me focused. Keep the faith! as Bon Jovi would say

[LaraSuzz]

Yesterday I ate fajitas with all the extras then went home and ate low carb and to my delight, didnt gain a pound! Very nice. Happiness! I was peeking at the scale withone eye closed, lol. That's always how I get on the scale. I really needed that suprise. I should have ate more chips and salsa lol.
I'm coming to the conclusion that... the more I stick to P3 the easier it is to go into p4.... I am still 3lbs over LIW but also the closest to LIW so I will take it.
Next week we have a celebration at work and they will catering food every day for lunch. My plan is to survey the food, see if its worth it, if it is, skip dinner if not do my normal thing... which I'm not sure what that is because I would have to bring lunch with me argh!!

Still planning to do a round in August. That means I have 4 weeks to get below liw so that I can gain at least 6 lbs load weight. To do this I would have to lose 10 lbs. Maybe I will go on a rum and diet coke diet lol. Seems funny but thats how I roll, lol. I'm happy right now with my eating habits....but I knw I need to lose this last 30 lbs. The fastest way is to do hcg.

Have a good day all~Lara