~~ Rogue HCG/hHCG plans for week of June 25, 2012 ~~

[minimonkey]

I think I'd prefer a plan that is consistent day to day -- I don't want to be worrying about what I can and can't eat on any given day -- I'd really rather just have a consistent way of approaching life ... but it seems like a lot of people do well with No-S, so power to you!

I think if I can find maintenance calories with balanced macros, that will be a huge victory.

In any event, I think my days of truly low carbing may be over, unless something changes along the way. I don't mind watching calories, as long as I am feeling well physically -- that's the real key. And I have no desire to eat the "bad" carbs -- I am perfectly content eating clean 100% of the time.

[bkm]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I've heard a lot about that book, Riley -- I'd like to read it eventually, but I just have no extra $ at all for the time being.

Try your library - I just did a quick search and put a copy on hold - will read it in a couple of days - sounds interesting ...

[dazygyrl]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I think I'd prefer a plan that is consistent day to day -- I don't want to be worrying about what I can and can't eat on any given day -- I'd really rather just have a consistent way of approaching life ... but it seems like a lot of people do well with No-S, so power to you!

I think if I can find maintenance calories with balanced macros, that will be a huge victory.

In any event, I think my days of truly low carbing may be over, unless something changes along the way. I don't mind watching calories, as long as I am feeling well physically -- that's the real key. And I have no desire to eat the "bad" carbs -- I am perfectly content eating clean 100% of the time.

mini...no-s is not a list of foods you can and can't eat. all it is is eating 3 meals a day, one plate of food at each meal. no eating between those meals. you can put whatever you want on those plates. the ONLY thing he says is to save sweets for the weekends or special events.

[minimonkey]

Ladies, I don't know what to say about all this -- I had a completely awesome workout, lifted strong, had good energy, and I continue to feel better than I have in a long time!

I still have very bad swelling, though -- that needs to go -- but overall, the improvement in how I feel is dramatic. I'm doing small meals throughout the day -- more like snacks -- and that seems to be agreeing with me. So far, I am at about 700 for the day, at 6 pm... that leaves room for another small meal later if I get hungry.

The next couple of weeks will be more of the same -- fruits, veggies, leaner meats -- and I am going to experiment with some complex carbs (hummus, for starters!) -- maybe tempeh, too, which remains one of my favorite foods -- it's grain, but it is fermented, and that tends to be pretty gut friendly.

If the appetite suppression remains in place, and my energy remains high, I have no issue whatsoever eating 1000 calories a day.

Let's hope this works to get the weight off and the swelling down -

On the truly plus side, I have gained A LOT of chest muscle, and upper body mass in general -- that is the biggest argument for refusing to give up my workouts -- I may not be able to gain further mass while losing weight, but I can preserve the majority of what I've built, which is actually a pretty substantial amount over the last six months.

One day at a time, adjusting as necessary -- that's my plan.

[plarsen]

That muscle gain sounds good! I have got my guns back too, and will continue to lift. Hot yoga seems to help with any water and muscle swelling I am down 1.5 this week. I think weighing in daily, but tracking on monday is good for me, otherwise I am too big of a cheater on weekends. My measurements are about the same, down 1/2 inch in the hips.

Clean eating is the way to go for sure. I dont crave junk, just my ice cream, which I did indulge. One magnum bar, two skinny cows for the weekend. Not bad Id say!

I do wish I could loose these love handles now, then I would have the waist measurement I am looking for. 25-6 instead of 28-29---Cardio?? what do you think gals?? I am really not having too much trouble with food, or stable weight (so far)

[catjrow3]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

On the truly plus side, I have gained A LOT of chest muscle, and upper body mass in general -- that is the biggest argument for refusing to give up my workouts -- I may not be able to gain further mass while losing weight, but I can preserve the majority of what I've built, which is actually a pretty substantial amount over the last six months.

One day at a time, adjusting as necessary -- that's my plan.

Zoe, do you take BCAAs to help retain your muscle when not eating enough calories... it helps if you take enough of it...

[EmBee]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

embee...what calorie range, fat g, and protein g range do you keep to?

Wow..I really don't keep track ..I add an extra egg at breakfast, coconut milk in the coffee. Cheese once in a while and nuts. Plus of course C.Crack ahha

Originally Posted by minimonkey

It seems like a lot of people do fine with some fat -- some even lose better that way!

I haven't seen a huge difference in my inability to stabilize one way or the other -- I've done fat free rounds (that made my mental state awful!) and high fat rounds, and just about everything in between! I've never stabilized after any of them, though the last two p3s were the most disastrous of all (and those were after rx drops, and low fat rounds.) So, this time I am doing things very differently, and hoping it works.

So far, at the very least, I am feeling terrific -- lots of energy, and my body just seems to be *working* better --there's no other way to describe it! I hope this keeps up.

Down .2 today -- not much, but any loss is great -- and that is after adding fruit back in to my diet, hence way increasing my carb levels.

Still retaining a ton of water, though -- so I am hoping and praying for a big water drop very soon.

I don't think very-low-carb works for my body at all any more -- something has changed about the way my body processes food. So, I am going to honor that, and eat good carbs for a while. I ate a ton of carbs in the form of fruit last round, and did very well... until p3, when I was hit with the horrid water and weight rebound.

This time, I am sticking to 1000 calories of "moderate everything" -- fat, protein, and carbs. I'm going to try experimenting with some non-fruit carbs during this round... sweet potatoes, maybe a white potato or two -- maybe even gluten free grains... and just watch how my body reacts -- at the moment, I feel a ton better than I did when I was decreasing carbs to nearly nothing.

I'm totally satisfied to take slow losses and make this a very long round if I need to do that -- I plan to transition to maintenance by eating the exact same foods for a while, and just stopping the hhcg when the time comes, and seeing what happens. I will add calories very, very slowly as I transition, and see what results in maintenance.

But that is a ways down the road -- I am still 17 lbs above my acceptable high goal weight -- and I'd definitely like 5 lbs leeway on the other side of that when the time comes.

One day at a time, for now, and I am more concerned with continuing to feel good than I am with fast losses. Any losses at all are success!

Yay on the success and I agree!! A bit of fat works and definitely everyone's body does things a tad bit differently ( my genetic test showed that) Fingers crossed for you

Originally Posted by RileyWorm

This is a bit off-topic but I know some of you might like to read and are also interested in ED. I just finished Portia di Rossi's book Unbearable Lightness about her anorexia and bulimia and I COULD NOT put it down; I finished it in one day. It really gave me an interesting perspective about food and eating habits.

Hope all of you had a nice weekend and are enjoying your Sunday!

Also wanted to add for someone who asked: while I'm not on HCG right now, I added fat in during my last round because I had incredible fatigue and brain fog. I just added in an extra egg and some HWC, and cooked with a bit of butter or mayo here and there and it did wonders for my mental health.

AMEN I am not as mean when i add a bit of fat, maybe cause our brain is mostly fat (so I've heard)...WAIT does that make us a FAT HEAD...JK...
Have a great one everyone!

[dazygyrl]

thanks, embee....so you don't track anything?

[EmBee]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

thanks, embee....so you don't track anything?

Not really...should I??? I measure when I eat, but that is about it

[dazygyrl]

you can DO whatever you like.

you don't adhere to a certain calorie level?

[catjrow3]

I monitor mine even when I eat badly... I always have a record of what I eat, unless I absolutely cannot figure the calories out. I find it the best way to "know" for sure!!

BTW Carrie, love the new photo of the kids and family....

[dazygyrl]

thank you, cathy.

[EmBee]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

you can DO whatever you like.

you don't adhere to a certain calorie level?

When I follow strict protocol that came with my original drops the calories work
out to be 750-800 ... when I do more rogue they are probably closer to 1200 with the extra calories coming from fat (usually coconut fat or nuts)...If I stop losing I do a "check up" and really keep track to see... I am so not a fussy numbers person. But I am doing fitness classes as well...3 Water toning classes a week, 2 Water Aerobics classes, try to hit the gym on days I can't get to the water toning class, so I am definitely burning fat (I check on the little strips ) I did cut my fruit portion back to one meal, for some reason the fruit was making me stop losing and gain a little, And when I eat a tomato it counts as a fruit portion because of the sugar

[minimonkey]

Water retention is a bit worse today -- I could tell that when I got up -- my arms had DEEP lines from the sheets. Scale is up .4 I was peeing a lot last night, so I was hoping it would be better, but no.

Not changing anything dietarily-- this is close to how I did my last round (in terms of calories and macros, which I estimate), and my last round did work wonders -- I wasn't weighing for the first part of it, so I don't know what the daily fluctuations were like.

I do have a lot of muscle soreness today, which may explain the slight jump up on the scale.

Feeling pretty good overall, and am assuming these little hitches will work themselves out. Historically, I haven't lost much during the first week of most of my rounds -- (except the very first, when I did lose a lot). Usually scale losses kick in the second week.

[EmBee]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Water retention is a bit worse today -- I could tell that when I got up -- my arms had DEEP lines from the sheets. Scale is up .4 I was peeing a lot last night, so I was hoping it would be better, but no.

Not changing anything dietarily-- this is close to how I did my last round (in terms of calories and macros, which I estimate), and my last round did work wonders -- I wasn't weighing for the first part of it, so I don't know what the daily fluctuations were like.

I do have a lot of muscle soreness today, which may explain the slight jump up on the scale.

Feeling pretty good overall, and am assuming these little hitches will work themselves out. Historically, I haven't lost much during the first week of most of my rounds -- (except the very first, when I did lose a lot). Usually scale losses kick in the second week.

Boo...I'm hoping for a good loss for you tomorrow

[minimonkey]

Thanks, EmBee -- I think the only cure for this (assuming it was caused by re-introducing calories too fast after a long period of deprivation) is time and clean eating. I'm tending towards that theory, given all I have read about rebound gains in figure and bodybuilding contestants... 20 lbs gain -- a lot of it water -- in a few days is not uncommon. The good news is that it tends to come off almost as fast as it went on, once the body finally starts to re-adjust ... so let's hope that happens for me.

My stomach area is definitely de-swelling -- instead of a big water balloon, I now have a small layer of goosh over some very flat abs underneath, and I can feel my abs again -- so something is correcting itself. The scale losses will come when they do.

Those of you who know me -- what on earth? Who is this laid back, relaxed girl who has taken over Mini's account? LOL -- I am not stressing this too much, quite honestly -- there's nothing more I can do to fix it beyond what I am doing, so I just need to relax and be patient.

And... if the past four days are any indication, that shouldn't be difficult this round.... I am having the easiest time so far! I had almost no hunger at all today -- I did get my 1000-ish calories in, by snacking on whole foods, but I actually could have eaten quite a bit less. Considering that my body is reacting so fiercely to the threat of starvation, however, I think that is unwise ... so I will shoot for the 1000 calories most days. I know that has worked fine for me to get losses in rounds past, so I suspect it'll work this time, too. Dropping the calories lower than that has never seemed to speed up my losses at all.

I feel good, though -- really, truly good -- calm, relaxed, able to focus. I'm utterly dumbfounded by all this, since I would have sworn a million times over that I can't tolerate carbs... but it seems that now I need them to function well.

I hope I can continue to feel this good for the remainder of the round -- that would be just stellar!

[plarsen]

This sounds good Mini!--Clean eating is the way for sure I am starting rebounding again to day--I go back to school soon, so I will not have the luxury of long workout mornings

Sooooo 15 minutes of cardio rebounding in the am, and whatever I can work in later when I get home. I have 45min of barn work, am and pm, but it hardly counts, I am so used to it

6 lbs to go, some belly fat and love handles, we will see if I can work them off finally

I must say this is a good group, we are all working towards our goals and even when we backslide, its just for a day and back on

[pendragginp]

Carrie, yay for the peach fuzz! Your son and family have been on my prayer list since I first read about his challenge. So happy about this!

[dazygyrl]

thank you so much, plum.

[EmBee]

Up early to my first Stretch / Relax class (kind of like beginner Yoga) and now grabbing a protein shake breakfast Have a great day everybody

[suzi7]

still here. still reading. still working. still internetting at the library. still hHcg'ing it.

Weight dropped to 147.2, then stagnated the last couple days. grrrr. frustrating but... Thinking positive and waiting for a WHOOOSH! (I know I'm doing ok cuz my skinny jeans (the size 8s I got into the end of last round) are slipping down low on my hips lol)

Good thoughts and prayers for all of you.

[minimonkey]

Sounds like a lot of good things happening around here! Yay for losses, yay for peach fuzz! Dazy, I am also praying for you and Noah. In fact, I pray for all of us, but some people get extra individualized prayers -- and that is far more than you guys need to know about my prayer habits

I'm down .6 today, and honestly, it looks and feels like more -- my stomach is really starting to return to normal, and my legs are firming back up.

I'm also feeling really good, so I am not changing a thing -- 1000 calories, moderate everything, slightly high on the good carbs -- I will keep doing this!

Something is working for me, finally

Honestly, I love eating this way, and I could totally see this being a lifetime WOE -- SLOWLY add back enough calories to find maintenance, and then just continue eating what I am eating. We'll see what happens as time goes by, but so far, I am stronger and more energetic than I have been in quite a while, which is really, really encouraging!

I will NOT be attempting a protocol p3 this time -- I will be doing a 'reverse diet' instead -- meaning I will keep eating exactly as I have been, and add back calories very, very slowly -- that will probably be the most challenging part of this whole thing, but it can be done, and it tends to leave people leaner at the end of it than when they first hit goal.

I've been reading a ton about the physiology of diet rebound, and I am pretty sure that is what happened to me -- I increased calories and fat way too quickly, and got a form of "refeeding syndrome". This is incredibly common with bodybuilders and figure contestants after they compete -- so I learned a lot reading about what they go through.

At goal, I really am quite lean, so I think it applies to me as well.

All that said, I DID take advantage of the so-called 'anabolic window' that happens when on the rebound -- twice, in fact -- and I have put on a lot of muscle in the past 6 months.

Now, the goal is to maintain that muscle as I trim off the fat (and lose the water!) -- and I can't wait to see the end result when I reach 110. I'm planning to start the reverse diet at 110 or just a bit below-- that is a sustainable goal for me, and I doubt I want to go too much lower than that initially.

When I get there, I will shift my focus from weight loss to maintenance and further body recomposition.

[fatnomore]

Originally Posted by ReBecca Tu

I have a couple of questions if anyone can help that would be great.
Loading: Do you have to do it? Has anyone not done it and still had good results?
Has anyone gone longer than 40 days on the hcg drops before doing phase 3?
What is the difference between hcg and hhcg?

If you don't load really well, the first few days to week of the protocol will be torture. You will drop whatever you gain within the first couple of days. Try to follow as written and good luck!

[RileyWorm]

Rebecca, I have loaded and not loaded. I personally prefer to not go too crazy with the loading otherwise the first week or two is just losing load weight. I have not really had any difference with hunger. My hunger is always present though not that bad the first 3-4 days then goes away. Just my experiences.

[minimonkey]

Riley -- me too -- loading hasn't done much at all in terms of hunger control for me, nor in terms of overall losses for the round. It does seem to work for some people, though.

I'm happy I skipped the load this time -- Lord knows I wasn't fat-deficient after my optimal-diet experiment, lol!

This is one of those individual things .. what works well for one, fails to work for another.

[minimonkey]

Incidentally, not to be discouraging, just honest ... there are a number of folks here who have had a bear of time losing the loading weight -- some have spent over half the round just getting back to baseline.... that isn't the norm, but it does happen once in a while.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[minimonkey]

Good, productive day here -- got in a full body workout, and also all the birdy hutches are now clean Energy is still good, and the workout went well.

I'll do some work on lectures for the upcoming class tonight, too --

So far, so good, with this round for me -- I hope it continues

[plarsen]

Sounds good mini! I dont know that much about bodybuilding, my son does it, but men are bound to be different then women. I do the weights every other day, then protein shake after! That was how I lost so much muscle before, doing weights at night and sleeping then My arms are back, but I would love better ones and also lose the excess belly fat and flab. I am doing weights at home today, and callanetics, dentist appt today.
I am also doing the 1000+ but clean and trying hard to drink my water, cider vineger cocktails, green tea, everything I did to get to 132.4 today My damned scale though. I got back on for a 2nd opinion and it went back to 133---I wrote down both
Now is it not funny how different all of our body types are??

I am quoting--Suzi:
Weight dropped to 147.2, then stagnated the last couple days. grrrr. frustrating but... Thinking positive and waiting for a WHOOOSH! (I know I'm doing ok cuz my skinny jeans (the size 8s I got into the end of last round) are slipping down low on my hips lol)"

Suzi, that is great!!

I had to be down to 140 to get into a sz 8! BUT that is that damned wide waist I have I am sure.

MIni, I didnt know you had birds or taught! I am a teacher too, art, and have lots of animals--10 horses, pet potbellied pigs, chickens, dogs and cats.

Sorry not to comment on each and all, I only did one real round with hcg--did load but not too much and gained maybe 1lb.

I am just not into stuffing at all, for any reason--it just doesnt feel right emotionally. I used to be a compulsive overeater, still can eat sometimes when not hungry just stressed, so it is just a place I dont go if I can avoid it:0

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by plarsen

I am just not into stuffing at all, for any reason--it just doesnt feel right emotionally. I used to be a compulsive overeater, still can eat sometimes when not hungry just stressed, so it is just a place I dont go if I can avoid it:0

I think that's a great decision. When I loaded I used to limit carbs to the first day, and not my trigger foods, but other carby treats I liked (mac-n-cheese, pizza). Then second day would fat/protein load. I certainly don't think loading's necessary, though maybe a psychological boost for some of us that can't stand the idea of the 23 days deprivation. And it was a killer when it would sometimes take 6 days to begin losing "fresh" weight as opposed to loading weight. And I know some ladies took longer...

[EmBee]

Good MORNING!!! Just got back from my morning workout at the Y (deep water fitness) I figured the water would be good for the new muscles I found at the stretch class (beginner yoga) I did yesterday (I blogged about it...lol). So I have two eggs scrambled together with a little bit of cheddar and my Organo Coffee coconut milk and stevia and Lots and lots and lots and lots of Pure WATER ... TOM is messing with my scale a little bit, (gick) 229.6 again...(I was down to 228 last week)

Today will be a school planning day here , Plus getting all the new members of the zoo adjusted to the old members ...Zoo means my home where we have now added two cute canaries to our 2 cats, dog, Cockatu, fish and four kids...LOL My life is never dull!

I have some healthy homemade ice cream chilling and making some CD is on my list for today (I've been out for a few weeks) I am hoping to get time to play with my new aromatherapy book and esssential oils.... so many smells, so little time.

OH OH and I am so excited!! I see definition in my arms!!! If only the saggy triceps would go bye bye...LOL

Love ya
MaryBeth