Do you think it's necessary to increase your P3/P4 time in later rounds?

[Dreamchaser]

I never hear much talk about this so I am just curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on this.

Have you increased the break time in between later rounds as suggested in the protocol and, if not, do you think it has negatively affected you in any way?

From Pounds and Inches:

Further Courses
Patients requiring the loss of more than 34 lbs. must have a second or even more courses. A second course can be started after an interval of not less than six weeks, though the pause can be more than six weeks. When a third,fourth or even fifth course is necessary, the interval between courses should be made progressively longer. Between a second and third course eight weeks should elapse, between a third and fourth course twelve weeks, between a fourth and fifth course twenty weeks and between a fifth and sixth course six months. In this way it is possible to bring about a weight reduction of 100 lbs. and more if required without the least hardship to the patient.

[C'Marie]

I did it for the first four rounds, increased from 6 weeks to 8 weeks to 12 weeks to 6 months. I had less trouble maintaining than for the 5th and 6th, which I shortened the breaks for. Others may have different experience. Just letting you know. It appears especially with long rounds you really need the break. I know some do short rounds and just do 6-8 weeks continually in between, but I don't know how they do longer term. I have blamed my hormonal changes in the midst of menopause for trouble maintaining, also dairy and nuts, and this also could be one issue. I don't know.

I generally defer my opinions to the original protocol, because I figure there must be good reasons. I mean, he was a doctor who did this for a long time. It seems to me if it was ok to finish quickly by shortening breaks, and subsequently making more money helping people do it quicker, I would think he would've done it.

On the other hand, I know people have good reasons for trying it. I myself shortened the time trying to get the weight off because of my hip, PT, and possible surgery as requested by the doctor. However, if it is too hard to maintain with shorter breaks, I wonder where the sense of doing it that way really is. I am the same weight today with the struggles I had, as just about where I was after the 4th round or midway through the 5th, and now I'm on my 7th and I'm not sure why that weightloss from part of the 5th and the 6th doesn't want to stay off. I can tell you I am being very very careful with maintenance this time.

[Dreamchaser]

Thank you so much Marie. I appreciate it!

[RedsSkinnyJeans]

Personally, I agree that P3 is the most important round.

This will be my first time doing a round that is less than 23 days. But you bet I'll be good about P3 and P4!! Those are my FOODS now! It's really how I've lived for the past year, so it's not hard. When I'm done with this 2 week round, it'll just be NO starch, instead of Very Rare Starch. No big difference.

I wholeheartedly believe in a diet that is plant based. Tons of veggies. Plenty of fruits. Some whole fat dairy, (LOVE my greek yogurt!). Yummy full fat blue cheese dressings, and meats. Only difference is that I add starchy vegetables later.

[Dreamchaser]

Originally Posted by RedsSkinnyJeans

Personally, I agree that P3 is the most important round.

This will be my first time doing a round that is less than 23 days. But you bet I'll be good about P3 and P4!! Those are my FOODS now! It's really how I've lived for the past year, so it's not hard. When I'm done with this 2 week round, it'll just be NO starch, instead of Very Rare Starch. No big difference.

I wholeheartedly believe in a diet that is plant based. Tons of veggies. Plenty of fruits. Some whole fat dairy, (LOVE my greek yogurt!). Yummy full fat blue cheese dressings, and meats. Only difference is that I add starchy vegetables later.

Hi Red. I agree with all of that as well. And I never add starches or sugar in P4. My P4 is just an extension of time with P3 eating because I don't ever care to eat starches and sugars.

But that's not my question. My question is do you progressively increase your P3/P4 time between each round!

[Sunny7]

i thought p3 was always 3 weeks and you add 2 weeks on to your p4 after each round

R1 p3---3 weeks ---p4 3 weeks
R2 p3---3 weeks--- p4 5 weeks
R3 p3---3 weeks----p4 7 weeks and so on---is this what you meant---this is how i do it and thought i read it on here somewhere---hope i am doing it right---

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Sunny7

i thought p3 was always 3 weeks and you add 2 weeks on to your p4 after each round

R1 p3---3 weeks ---p4 3 weeks
R2 p3---3 weeks--- p4 5 weeks
R3 p3---3 weeks----p4 7 weeks and so on---is this what you meant---this is how i do it and thought i read it on here somewhere---hope i am doing it right---

yup you are right. What Dream wanted to know "is anyone shortening up the time of P4 and getting good results doing so?"

We always hear that you have to wait 3 weeks in P3 then 3 weeks in P4, but Simeons has it set up for longer P4s the more rounds you do. It seems that not too many people do in fact follow protocol in later rounds. I know that I have NOT and here I am struggling to keep afloat in P2 for my 11th time Well, I actually quit, so have not even had what I would call a successful round in a while. So I have not had great results by doing P2 "whenever I felt like it". That didn't/doesn't work for me I sure wished I had followed the schedule as above, I might be in a better place than I am now

[Arctic_Mama]

I have seen nothing good come of shortening those ever-lengthening breaks. The best I have seen is no obvious ill effect, and the most common result seems to be trouble maintaining/stabilizing and struggling with cravings, exhaustion, and cheating in the next P2 after the shortened break.

If you're going to do it, at the very least don't do it your last round, when you want to stabilize and maintain for life. That's the round, if any, to do absolutely by the book. I get wanting to shorten a P4, I might even do it myself in the future if need be, but it doesn't seem wise and the results are iffy, at best. The most successful long term maintainers I have seen coming off the protocol are those who were the strictest with it and didn't adjust food, time, or maintenance requirements like those in P3 and P4. If you want results like them, emulate what made them successful. In the case of this diet, in particular, fastidious adherence to the protocol and vigilance thereafter is absolutely key.

[Dreamchaser]

Originally Posted by Sunny7

i thought p3 was always 3 weeks and you add 2 weeks on to your p4 after each round

R1 p3---3 weeks ---p4 3 weeks
R2 p3---3 weeks--- p4 5 weeks
R3 p3---3 weeks----p4 7 weeks and so on---is this what you meant---this is how i do it and thought i read it on here somewhere---hope i am doing it right---

No, Sunny, actually that's not right. When you get up to round 3 and above, the breaks are longer than that. When Dr. Simeons explained this, he referred to our P3/P4 as an "interval between courses". They would actually go like this:

R1 and then a 6 week interval (P3 - 3 weeks) (P4 - 3 weeks)
R2 and then a 8 week interval (P3 - 3 weeks) (P4 - 5 weeks)
R3 and then a 12 week interval (P3 - 3 weeks) (P4 - 9 weeks)
R4 and then a 20 week interval (P3 - 3 weeks) (P4 - 17 weeks)
R5 and then a 6 month interval (P3 - 3 weeks) (P4 - 21 weeks)

***Let's say for example that someone did 5 rounds, all with 28 day P2 phases. According to Dr. Simeons, it would take 630 days or 1 year + 8 months + approximately 3 weeks to complete the 5 rounds and get to round 6!!!***

Although I am sure than some do people realize this, I have a feeling that many don't!

Further Courses
Patients requiring the loss of more than 34 lbs. must have a second or even more courses. A second course can be started after an interval of not less than six weeks, though the pause can be more than six weeks. When a third,fourth or even fifth course is necessary, the interval between courses should be made progressively longer. Between a second and third course eight weeks should elapse, between a third and fourth course twelve weeks, between a fourth and fifth course twenty weeks and between a fifth and sixth course six months. In this way it is possible to bring about a weight reduction of 100 lbs. and more if required without the least hardship to the patient.

[RedsSkinnyJeans]

That's a good reminder. Thank you!!! And it makes sense. :-)

It's also a protection. I think that this last time when I gained weight, I lacked the same intrinsic FEAR of how hard it is to get it back off. Something came along, in my life, that was pretty big. In my determination to focus on it, I kept saying, "I just can't think about food right now," and made unwise choices for a few weeks. That is NOT a mindset that serves me or serves my goals. And the ease of losing weight with HCG can get us into that unhealthy mindset. It's not good for our body.

That's one reason I appreciate these guidelines.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Dreamchaser

Although I am sure than some do people realize this, I have a feeling that many don't![/B]

Yes, this ^^^^^^^^^

I don't think people realize that they need to do this at all. I know most are impatient, including me and then there is the whole immunity issue. I hear that all the time--I won't have immunity issues because I am on homeopathic therefore I am only taking a 3 weeks P3 break and back to P2 for me. People think that the reason Simeon's put those intervals in his plan was because of the immunity. I believe it is more for the stabilization issue than any other thing. Not for the immunity. Believe me, if I were to do it all over again from scratch, I would follow his plan with the built in breaks to a "T"!!! Pay more attention to the length of my P4s.

Now, this is not to say that ALL folks do not follow the breaks. I do know that Torister and C'Marie do happen to take the required longer intervals between rounds. I am sure there are others and they have escaped my memory for now, but I know that MOST do not follow the required interval between rounds. They want it over done NOW, and who doesn't Actually, I want the weight gone yesterday but I do know that IS too much to ask

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by RedsSkinnyJeans

That's a good reminder. Thank you!!! And it makes sense. :-)

It's also a protection. I think that this last time when I gained weight, I lacked the same intrinsic FEAR of how hard it is to get it back off. Something came along, in my life, that was pretty big. In my determination to focus on it, I kept saying, "I just can't think about food right now," and made unwise choices for a few weeks. That is NOT a mindset that serves me or serves my goals. And the ease of losing weight with HCG can get us into that unhealthy mindset. It's not good for our body.

That's one reason I appreciate these guidelines.

Red--this has been my life since I have gotten to goal. Something always comes up and I am a stress eater. Well, too much stress and stress eating is not good for me. I have to learn to deal with my stress better because the way it has been going it is not leaving. So I am forced to find a new way of coping. It has been hard, because I feel like I get slapped in the face ALL THE TIME now, but I just need to learn to deal and not eat. So hard to do And when I say stress, I mean STRESS Calling 911, having a DD diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and in the hospital, deaths in the family, car accidents with my 16 yr old........I mean come on!! I can only handle so much. This last year has been the year from hell for me.

[C'Marie]

YES I agree - I took all the required breaks as outlined in the protocol, Rounds 1,2,3 and 4. However, when I did NOT take the required break between Round 4 and Round 5 I did maintain fine for almost 8 months - within 5 pounds instead of 2 after adding carbs, through vacation and everything, but I was ok and happy, could get back down easily, and no problems. Then came Hormonal H3LL with menoP in the fall and up 8 pounds just lickety-split - so I don't know how much the gain had to do with the time difference not waiting or hormones, or ? why. So then I said to myself, well, no worries, I can get the weight back off easily with Round 6 - SMH!!! so I just ate whatever I wanted for the holidays and gained a little more! UGH.

When I did Round 6 at the beginning of this year, it was not quite a total redo of Round 5, because I did get down a little lower and felt I was doing great. I maintained within 5 pounds, could NOT hold it to two no matter what I did, and after only 2 months it jumped again and I just about lost it mentally with all my commitments and issues. So here I am doing Round 7 very soon after Round 6 when I should not, according to Dr. S timetables. Realistically, I am allowing myself that variance because no way am I going to regain any higher, and because my mobility is compromised with my hip issues when I am any higher, I can't get my leg moving, no joke. I do not want to end up in a wheelchair or scooter! After this round, I will be testing again for hormones and thyroid issues and getting treatment ASAP because I must maintain - I could've done that now but I needed to get the weight off again.

Moral of my story is this: follow the guidelines, and if you do not, be extra vigilant in maintenance because once you get over 2-5 pounds heavier, it does not want to come off and will go on at a very very rapid pace. 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 becomes 15 seemingly overnight! A little "fear" is good. Relying on the protocol and the quick fix of the P2 is a bit dangerous, if we allow that to cloud our good judgment on maintenance. JMHO.