Weight-Loss Apocalypse

[C'Marie]

Well, this is interesting to read (your summary, Shelby, thanks!) because how she describes P3 is how I did it the first 2 times when I absolutely maintained within 2 pounds and never had a single correction day or any problems at all. I barely had any appetite for days but when I was hungry I ate, and when I wasn't hungry anymore I stopped. It was the first time since I was a little girl that I actually paid attention to my body and ate to hunger signals only. Actually, it was the first time I had even HAD hunger signals and full signals and thought that's what the protocol had fixed. I hadn't felt hunger/satiation signals my entire adult life, and a majority of my childhood as well, as soon as I started anorexia/bulimia. In social situations I literally would watch other people for clues to when it was time to stop! unless of course I was utterly stuffed like Thanksgiving full.

It was when I got "smart" on my 3rd and subsequent rounds and thought I had to up this or up that, and overindulged right away that maintenance got incredibly difficult. Hmmmm. Guess I'll be trying to read this in and among all the schoolbooks I have for finishing my degree and all my continuing education for my business. *LOL*

I definitely have one, if not 2, more rounds to do and am not sure when I should start but I need to have my head in the right place first, along with my hormonal issues, along with being at a place in my PT that I can handle P2 again.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

I definitely have one, if not 2, more rounds to do and am not sure when I should start but I need to have my head in the right place first, along with my hormonal issues, along with being at a place in my PT that I can handle P2 again.

I have watched you on and off and want to Congratulate you on such great success! Did you ever think when you started that you would be to this weight?

Shelby,
I did RX hcg through a doctor and for the majority of time I was fine. I tried Hhcg for one round about a year ago and didn't make it but a few days before I felt ravenous and knew that something wasn't right. I am thinking once my summer is not so hectic about trying the protocol once more.

[minimonkey]

I think my hunger mechanisms are off, too -- especially when I am working out, I can have a pretty darn big appetite -- and yet, for my size and goal weight, my BMR maintenance tops out at about 1800, and that is with truly vigorous exercise. When I am working out hard, I can eat that and still feel quite hungry. I can also gain on substantially less than that, it seems.

I'll give another go at the eating when hungry thing this p3, but will set a calorie limit as well -- and I will definitely be doing some work on my metabolism. I really like IF-ing, so if I can make that work, I'll go that route.

I am having a round with minimal hunger so far, so perhaps that also bodes well for less hunger in p3 ... I guess we'll see.

[smfarmgal]

Thanks for the book reference... I'm going to get it. I was thinking I'd like to do another round, but was hesitant... the book will give me a push in the right direction!

[julieboolie]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Shelby -- it was Julie who referred to p2 as torture, and I seconded the thought! Actually, I am trying very hard to break myself of thinking that way, and really stay present with the experience this time.

I am going to be investing in this book as soon as I have the money, but that may be a while, so I am looking forward to the tidbits that you folks are able to share in the mean time. (This MFA exhibit left me beyond broke.. my phone is disconnected at the moment... d'oh!)

Yep! that sounds like me . I am hoping to relose my recent indulgence gain without having to do another round. I really don't like the hcg protocol. Yes, it works , but it's so restrictive that mentally the rebound for me is almost counterproductive. The sense of "entitlement" I have after 3 weeks of feeling completely deprived and restricted is very hard. At least for me, that's the torturous part for me. All the restriction and having to think about it all the time. But, I'm thinking about doing another round in July to get a bit lower and then allow a larger maintenance range. We'll see. I'm doing alot of reading and research about metabolism and intuitive eating. This seems right in line. I have been meaning to buy it and then find the time to read it. Thanks for sharing your experiences and summary !!

[adelinesdream]

this is a great thread. thanks for pointing me toward robin and weight loss apocalypse. I don't have the book yet, but been watching the videos and reading the blog. I am applying the hunger and fullness scale and doing a cd when I eat emotionally like i've been doing at work on friday and yesterday. today's been a burger/egg day. I want to get to the point where I don't need cd's and I am proficient at minimilist eating.

[martiangurll]

Hmm, this has been a great thread. I was dismissive at first, as I read a page of the blog, but I usually read everything I can about this type of stuff and based on the recommendations here, I will read Robin's stuff. I had trouble understanding what she was saying about leptin on the blog page I read, but maybe details in the book would clear that up?

Anyway, I like the idea of incorporating a hunger scale, but will wait until P3. If I only ate on P2 when hungry, then it would be never. I could easily just do a water fast on this round, the hcg is so effective, I only eat out of habit and to eat enough protein to maintain my muscle mass (and because I enjoy taking time out to have lunch and dinner).

[ColleenMA66]

LCandee I wanted to say THANK YOU for posting this when you did. It took me a few weeks to actually understand where she was coming from and accept that this is not a diet. I started this round with the same intention I had in the past....it's a diet....blah, blah, blah. Even after watching her I thought...yah I get it...but I'm still wanting it to lose weight.

Well..I still want to lose weight but guess what? I got therapy in the process by watching her videos and I'm pretty sure I'm on the way to reaching my goal because....I GET IT! I finally understand what she's saying and I agree. Eating at any other time other than when you are hungry is INAPPROPRIATE....I remember hearing her saying that and I thought...well that sounds stupid lol but she's right.

I feel like I finally have the answer. Food is not the problem..it never was. I've been abusing my body for years and years trying to tell it what to do when in fact it's smarter than I am and already knows what to do. All I have to do is give it food when it needs it according to the hunger scale. It's ridiculously simple when you really get it..you'll start to laugh. It's like when I bought my MAC and tried to do something and realized...yes...it's that simple on a MAC....stop trying to complicate things.

I encourage everyone who is serious about changing their relationship with food to read her book and visit her videos on youtube and if you don't get it at first just stay with it...it took me about 5 weeks before I really HEARD her and it clicked for me the other day and I just got it. I don't foresee me binging ever again and that's a pretty bold statement for me to make. I have along way to go but this round has been so different right from the beginning it's like night and day for me.

[HappyChick]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

It's interesting that in the book she specifically states that you should NOT deviate from Simeons' food list or quantities then 1 page later, she turns around and posts an "Example VLCP Daily Log" that includes water packed tuna (specifically NOT on Simeons' list) and 3 servings of mixed veggies (both quantity and mixing NOT OP). Something that I hope she clarifies in future additions of the book.

I think her clarifications may be in some of her vlogs. Thanks for the new link, Dream. I'll check it out tomorrow.

Hi Shelby-

First, really want to thank you for the time you spend creating such insightful and helpful posts- all over this forum! =)

When I read your comment on the 'water packed tuna not being OP'- it raised a question in my mind and I'm jumping on it..

Albacore tuna is white meat fish, right? White fish is on protocol, isn't it? I haven't had tuna yet on this round- but, I was considering it. Would you mind sharing a little more on why tuna is off limits?

Thank you so much!

~Liz

[christyb]

This thread has been so interesting! I've watched a few of her videos and now I'm definitely going to get the book! I'm thinking about downloading it for my phone because I want it now! But I think I'd rather have the actual book. Maybe I should hit the bookstore...

[ColleenMA66]

ChristyB...it changed everything for me....everything. I love her way of looking at food and what we've done to it and how we've abused it....I can't say enough good about the experience.

Again, I did not get it at first. I watched but it took me a while before the dots started to connect for me and then I just got it one morning and started laughing because it is that simple...it really is. I got it on my IPad...I'll probably read it again because the science stuff makes my eyes glaze over.

I have no intention of EVER being on a diet ever again. I will not deprive myself of food if I am TRULY hungry. If it's just a craving I'm going to have to learn to suck it up so we'll see....but her approach is that NO food is off limits...so once I realized I could have whatever I wanted at SOME point..maybe not now but at some point I felt relieved......that I was no longer on punishment cause that's how I've felt for yearsssss..I was bad...I was a failure.....pick your insult that's what I said to myself.....no more.

When I'm hungry I eat...and that goes for protocol. I do get hungry before my meals and I do eat protocol food and I do listen to my body and I do practice what she says about the hunger scale and it works....works great....I'm no pro by any means yet but if this is what it's going to take for me not to gain weight and be miserable....to enjoy my life and get on with it instead of wasting precious valuable time "dieting" I'm going to do it. I don't want to binge anymore and I want to be like a "normal" person. BTW..there are normal people who can eat.....I gave birth to one. He eats when he's hungry and stops when he's full he's been doing it ever since he was little and I never pushed food on him..well sometimes but usually no and he's fine...healthy and doesn't demonize food as being good or bad. He just easts when he's hungry. My Dad is the same way....Mom...not so much but not as bad as me.

Anyway...I could go on and on but I won't.

[julieboolie]

I'm only half way through the ebook, but I love it!! I like so much of what she has to say. Definitely guilty of using food as entertainment and celebration. I need to find other ways to entertain me and my family. It's hard though. I won't lie. Going out to eat is fun, I don't have to cook and can actually relax and enjoy my family and friends. I'll have to keep working on that one as it's where I seem to get stuck.

The eating until satisfied thing is tricky too. Eating more slowly is a big part of that. The hcg plan has helped w. that too. I managed to eat a half poriton of my "meal" on hcg and was satisfied. So I stopped and put the other half away. I had it for "dinner" later that day. I did get hungry around 9:30 that night and wasn't sure if I should eat. I had some marinated cucumbers and that was it. I felt ok. Not sure if I should have had another "meal" but being so late I didn't want to.

Still working on lots of things, but love her book.

I will still follow her plan, but will keep it mostly LC. I gain w. too many carbs, no matter what plan I follow (JUDDD, IE etc). I'm still troubled by that, and maybe over time I could add more in. We'll see. But, this time around, if/when I hit goal, I plan to stay LC for the most part, w. the occasional carby treat (when hungry ).

We can do it ladies!!

[ColleenMA66]

I agree Julie about the going out to dinner and socializing thing. I don't do it often but when I have in the past it's been a binge fest because....it's a treat and I treated it that way. Or if I'm in an uncomfortable social situation food was always my escape...now what? I don't drink or smoke lol I'll have to actually socialize! But I need to get comfortable with my feelings so we'll see. I'm sure there is a learning curve and I'll make mistakes....but it's a lifestyle and not a diet so there isn't anything I can do about it other than try next meal.

I'm practicing with the hunger scale and today I did pretty good with my lunch...I ate what I had and felt ok...was a bit worried if I ate too much but I didn't feel like it....I waited 20 mins...perfect...I've been at a 5.5 all afternoon and feel great.

I have found that I get bored a lot and lazy after work. I don't want to drag out my crafts or I don't want to sit and read...watching tv and eating was easy...it was passive..I didn't have to engage my brain all that much. I have plenty of things to do and keep me busy...I just don't do them. So I'm learning to focus on other things. I've told myself food is not an option unless it's from hunger so put your big girl panties on and deal with your life.

I do find I feel really good and things aren't pissing me off as much as they normally do....which Robin mentioned in her videos....it's not the HCG doing it...it's our hormones in balance.....really?..sign me up for more of this. I can achieve this by doing what I'm doing now just with more food choices....I think I can do that.

I'm going to stick with lc/paleo I think for the most part. I have no interest at this time to go head first back in all the crappy food. If I'm going to be limited in what I eat each day based on my hunger scale then I want GOOD food that I enjoy...not some crap I'd get in a gas station just to shove in my face just because.

If you haven't watched her videos you should...she explains things in simple terms even I can understand....it was like going to therapy and I didn't actually have to do anything....just listen and it's free!

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by HappyChick

Hi Shelby-

First, really want to thank you for the time you spend creating such insightful and helpful posts- all over this forum! =)

When I read your comment on the 'water packed tuna not being OP'- it raised a question in my mind and I'm jumping on it..

Albacore tuna is white meat fish, right? White fish is on protocol, isn't it? I haven't had tuna yet on this round- but, I was considering it. Would you mind sharing a little more on why tuna is off limits?

Thank you so much!

~Liz

You are very welcome. I get the "tuna being off limits" thing directly from P&I. Simeons SPECIFICALLY states "Salmon, eel, tuna, herring, dried or pickled fish are not allowed." I chose to leave tuna out, white meat or not, because Dr. S specifically prohibits it. He isn't very specific in a lot of ways but in this one he seems very clear. I know a lot of people include it (as well as turkey breast or lean pork) but given what is in the original doc, I thought it safer to stay away. Now, that said, I DO eat swai which some consider to be roughy (allowed) but some consider to be catfish (not allowed). HTH

Originally Posted by julieboolie

I'm only half way through the ebook, but I love it!! I like so much of what she has to say. Definitely guilty of using food as entertainment and celebration. I need to find other ways to entertain me and my family. It's hard though. I won't lie. Going out to eat is fun, I don't have to cook and can actually relax and enjoy my family and friends. I'll have to keep working on that one as it's where I seem to get stuck.

The eating until satisfied thing is tricky too. Eating more slowly is a big part of that. The hcg plan has helped w. that too. I managed to eat a half poriton of my "meal" on hcg and was satisfied. So I stopped and put the other half away. I had it for "dinner" later that day. I did get hungry around 9:30 that night and wasn't sure if I should eat. I had some marinated cucumbers and that was it. I felt ok. Not sure if I should have had another "meal" but being so late I didn't want to.

Still working on lots of things, but love her book.

I will still follow her plan, but will keep it mostly LC. I gain w. too many carbs, no matter what plan I follow (JUDDD, IE etc). I'm still troubled by that, and maybe over time I could add more in. We'll see. But, this time around, if/when I hit goal, I plan to stay LC for the most part, w. the occasional carby treat (when hungry ).

We can do it ladies!!

Julie - have you gotten to the "science" part yet? (I think it's near the end so maybe not.) When you do, I would love your take on it. I know you have a scientific mind and your insights are always helpful.

[ColleenMA66]

This is a great explanation even I understood it.

How the hCG protocol works - YouTube

[shelbyla]

Thanks Colleen! I understand it but I don't know enough about medicine and research in general to know whether it's a valid hypothesis or not. It SOUNDS good to me but then so has a lot of science over the years!

[julieboolie]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Thanks Colleen! I understand it but I don't know enough about medicine and research in general to know whether it's a valid hypothesis or not. It SOUNDS good to me but then so has a lot of science over the years!

Yep, not there yet Welcome home btw, how was Mexico?

[julieboolie]

In watching that video it's interesting. There is a LOT of speculation as to how our hormones/endocrine system actually works. Her leptin -fat metabolism mkes sense, kinda. I haven't done enough research on leptin yet. Like you said, there's been lots of "science" and convincing theories out there. But I do like her explanation on the way loading helps, and why fat gain is so quick w/ cheats. Hmmm. Mulling...

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

I should finish the book tonight and I would also like to watch the video for context but the only cautions she has so far (p116) are related to consequences of the hCG/leptin/fat storage loop if people do NOT follow the protocol. i.e. If you "cheat"--and I don't know what that means in her terms yet--you risk not only short-term gains in scale weight but a complete disruption of the loop which can cause damage to your thyroid and creation of more or magnification of existing fat cells that are uniquely resistant to weight loss.

Stay tuned...

I got her book right before I started this round 4. First, I totally agree that subsequent rounds are TORTURE compared to the first round! I did a 63 day round my first round and I was fine but by my third round, I was introducing the Fat Fast around day 15 and then I basically quit at day 18 and went into P3. This is probably why I am gaining now even though I'm eating exactly like I was after my second round that I begrudgingly finished out to day 23 and didn't mess with protocol all that much (besides my usual rogue stuff). I stabilized fairly well after round 2 but not at all after round 3. I knew not to end before 23 days but I tell you that it felt like my life depended on stopping at day 18 and eating "real food" LOL

I also was using Intermountain for rounds 2 and 3 and was STARVING for the first 10 days and still relatively hungry for the rest of the round. Now I have switched to a new brand of homeopathic drops from my local apothecary/drug store called HCG 1234 and I have very little hunger--even on day 3.

[christyb]

I received the book yesterday and finished it tonight. I really liked it and felt like it made so much sense. I feel like to recognize and respond appropriately to hunger will be life changing for me.

I have been dealing with a lot of health issues for the past 15+ years. And several of the issues I'm dealing with are ones she mentions as being tied to leptin (thyroid, adrenal fatigue, hormonal imbalances, depression etc.). It makes me wonder if my treatment has been backwards. For several years now various doctors have kind of put my weight on the back burner while dealing with everything else. This book me wonder how many of them will still be an issue once I've rid my body of excess fat.

It is all so interesting. I really hope at some point more research is done so more of this can be explained.

[dawnyama]

Christy--I am dealing with all those issues as well! I have adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, unbalanced sex hormone, unbalanced blood sugars and others. I am a hormonal mess!! My doctor told me that once I got my hormones in balance the weight would just melt right off. NOT!!! I tried her suggestions and lost not one single pound in 5 months. Not one stinking pound! Even my DH, who is convinced that all we have to do is eat less food (don't you worry I have set him straight but it is still frustrating ) told me that with all the changes I was doing I should have dropped 20 lbs. But I didn't Enter hcg and viola!! I went back to her having shed the weight with hcg and she said "See I knew the weight would fly off!" If she only knew. Anyhow, I agree with you. Just throwing meds at the hormones don't work. BTDT. It is much more complicated than that.

[julieboolie]

Yep-add me to the messed up hormones/thyroid camp! But, like dawn, hcg works even for me! Atkins did well initially for me (100 lbs worth!) but wouldn't drop me any further than 175. Not sure I'll ever be endocrinologically "right" but I'm at least "healthy"!

[christyb]

The whole theory of how excess leptin affects those systems is really interesting to me. I'm wondering with a lot of my issues, which came first the chicken or the egg? You know? Is my thyroid messed up because I got fat and had so much excess leptin coming from my fat cells. Or did I get fat from my thyroid problem which led to excess leptin? I may never know, but I want to understand it better.

[dawnyama]

Maybe Jack Kruse has the answer on his website. He is the author of "the leptin diet". He has studied it extensively. I follow him on facebook too. I am so glad I have access to all these authors and their thoughts! And there are threads on the main lobby about his leptin plan.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Maybe Jack Kruse has the answer on his website. He is the author of "the leptin diet". He has studied it extensively. I follow him on facebook too. I am so glad I have access to all these authors and their thoughts! And there are threads on the main lobby about his leptin plan.

thanks dawn for info on Dr. Kruse, I'm waiting for Robin's book to arrive. Meantime I'm watching her on FB and as of yesterday following her hunger/fullness chart--practicing doing that. I lost another .1 lb since yesterday, though I ate a bit too much at dinner cause I felt too full and needed to stop sooner. I am thankful not to be gaining. I'm waiting for my HCG to clear customs and get to me so I can plan when to start loading. Meantime this is good practice for phase 3 when I transition from the vlcd part of my next round. I'm excited!

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by julieboolie

Yep-add me to the messed up hormones/thyroid camp! But, like dawn, hcg works even for me! Atkins did well initially for me (100 lbs worth!) but wouldn't drop me any further than 175. Not sure I'll ever be endocrinologically "right" but I'm at least "healthy"!

hey julie, what weight are you at now? I'm not sure I read the stats right on your posts. I'm at 175.4 today and I am praying I can get back down to what the dukins site sez I should weigh after 5 pregnancies and a high weight of 298. It tells me 152. Last summer I was down to 155 but I struggled with emotional eating and body image issues and worked my way back up the scale to here. I am praying for freedom from gluttony and emotional eating.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Christy--I am dealing with all those issues as well! I have adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, unbalanced sex hormone, unbalanced blood sugars and others. I am a hormonal mess!! My doctor told me that once I got my hormones in balance the weight would just melt right off. NOT!!! I tried her suggestions and lost not one single pound in 5 months. Not one stinking pound! Even my DH, who is convinced that all we have to do is eat less food (don't you worry I have set him straight but it is still frustrating ) told me that with all the changes I was doing I should have dropped 20 lbs. But I didn't Enter hcg and viola!! I went back to her having shed the weight with hcg and she said "See I knew the weight would fly off!" If she only knew. Anyhow, I agree with you. Just throwing meds at the hormones don't work. BTDT. It is much more complicated than that.

Dawn,

How did you find out about all those hormonal issues you list? Did you have blood tests? Regarding my husband, he's 5'4" and thinks he's fat when he weighs 142, but he's all muscle and very slim to me, maybe a tiny belly--but not much. He just thinks I should be able to muster up the will power and do it. Being together 24/7 was wonderful on vacation but some triggers came out for him and me in relation to my weight and his inner attitude. We have since worked it out and I set healthy boundaries for myself and him in that arena and know there are just some things that I cannot expect him to understand. He is supportive, but I own this thing and he cannot be "all up in my kool-aid cause he doesn't even know what flavor it is" Know what I mean?

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

hey julie, what weight are you at now? I'm not sure I read the stats right on your posts. I'm at 175.4 today and I am praying I can get back down to what the dukins site sez I should weigh after 5 pregnancies and a high weight of 298. It tells me 152. Last summer I was down to 155 but I struggled with emotional eating and body image issues and worked my way back up the scale to here. I am praying for freedom from gluttony and emotional eating.

HI! I am interested in knowing the name of this site. I've been trying to find out what I truly should weigh after pregnancies, yo-yo dieting, being 411 at one time, etc. Can you tell me the name. I looked up Dukins but nothing is showing up

Thanks!!

[Crazy PreK Teacher]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

hey julie, what weight are you at now? I'm not sure I read the stats right on your posts. I'm at 175.4 today and I am praying I can get back down to what the dukins site sez I should weigh after 5 pregnancies and a high weight of 298. It tells me 152. Last summer I was down to 155 but I struggled with emotional eating and body image issues and worked my way back up the scale to here. I am praying for freedom from gluttony and emotional eating.

I found it...Dukan. I plugged my info in and it is telling me 194 lbs. WOWZA...no way. I may have to re-think my goal. I had gotten down to 178 at one point and everyone said that was too low...but still couldn't get below size 12 on the bottom...of course top part was 6-8, mediums, etc. I have a goal of 170 which is still high for some people...but I carry a lot of skin that needs to be removed. I'm thinking 175 may be good for me. So, who knows.

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by Crazy PreK Teacher

I found it...Dukan. I plugged my info in and it is telling me 194 lbs. WOWZA...no way. I may have to re-think my goal. I had gotten down to 178 at one point and everyone said that was too low...but still couldn't get below size 12 on the bottom...of course top part was 6-8, mediums, etc. I have a goal of 170 which is still high for some people...but I carry a lot of skin that needs to be removed. I'm thinking 175 may be good for me. So, who knows.

I must be built just like you! I have gotten as low as 163 but that was REALLY skinny for me...and yet I still was smack dab in the middle of a size 12. I actually don't care what I weigh--I just want to be in a size 12 with a little wiggle room