~~P3/P4 Simeons Protocol Week of 5/6~~

[Lildrew]

Hi Ladies!!!!!!!!!!! Today is my first full P3 day!!!!!!!!!! I had turkey bacon and eggs this morning!!

I have decided to stay away from my beloved Fage until I am firmly stabilized in P3. I going to keep it SUPER basic in the hopes that I will stabilize beautifully!

Yay for P3!!

[Arctic_Mama]

That's a great plan, Drew. Keep it simple until you're stable

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Doing It Right

Lara- Great Job, Nice Loss! Good for you for staying on track through this difficult time!

Theresa- Yep! I think it's time to move on for now. Good plan! You saw my struggles in my last P3, how I could not stabilize for my life! This time has been a breeze. I owe that to b/c & Shelby for pointing me in the right direction to get my thyroid & adrenals worked out. My bloodwork was so messed up, I don't think I could keep even 5 lbs off, and this time it's almost effortless. Hang in there, get yourself checked out, and come back with a bang! :Hugs:

Shelby... I could have written that post! How's P2 going?

Taryl- Way to work it Girl! Still going down! Great Job!

Adeline- Whine away! We are all here for you! Sorry your struggling. I can't eat the sf candy either, makes me bloat like crazy, right under the ribs... that and cashews. I got into both Sun/Mon and pretty much paid my dues to the tune of 4 lbs., felt so out of control. Thank goodness I didn't have donuts, cake, cup cakes, candy, ice cream... any of the good stuff around, or I would have eaten it too. Prob a good thing I forgot about that case of GS cookies in my freezer! Had to buy them, she's my niece!

Hope you are all having a great day!
Tonya

thanks for your compassion, Doing It Right. I am up a pound again. Doing a lower calorie day today, hoping it will stabilize me better. I still am .2 lbs within my window. All you ladies are such a wonderful support! thanks for being here.

[adelinesdream]

Originally Posted by Arctic_Mama

That's a great plan, Drew. Keep it simple until you're stable

Ever since I started the low carb, I've had ucky breathe. I thought it might be keto breathe but not sure. blechhhhhhh I guess it's for a good cause though. I tend to want to chew mint gum to cover it.

[Arctic_Mama]

I'm sorry you are up a bit, but a strict P3 diet day (watch the nuts and dairy, essentially) and slight calorie restriction should help with that. Unfortunately if it is metallic/fruity keto breath then gum just covers it, as it is coming from the stomach and not the tongue or gums. But I'm chewing cinnamon gum right now to offset it a bit, so clearly knowing the cause of the breath issue hasn't dissuaded me from treating the symptom even if I know it is futile

[shelbyla]

Well, my lovely P3 buddies, I was UP 0.8 this morning despite a good OP day yesterday and a GREAT night of sleep last night. Bumped up my cortisol meds yesterday and that usually helps me sleep better. I think I have been trying to get off cortisol (wean down) and my body just isn't ready to do it AND diet at the same time. So back onto the cort I go! The difference between 12mg and 20 really isn't that much--until I go hypo. Then it severely messes with me!

Question for those who do the shots--I am thinking maybe Taryl can answer this one but all input welcome from the injection crowd... I started out at 150iu but have been feeling a little more hungry than I'd like. Today I dropped it down to 132iu and am feeling even MORE hungry. Thoughts? Higher or lower on dosage?

[Doing It Right]

Tiffany- Enjoy your GY! It's a bowl of heaven for me!

Lara- Great loss! Good plan with scale, do whatever it takes to stay focused and on plan. Your doing great! Please keep posting here! We are such a small group, I like the "feel" too.

Taryl- Way to work your way back down before the weekend! I'm sure you'll be back in range tomorrow! Please tell... clouds?

[Doing It Right]

Drew- Welcome Back!!! We missed you! Hope your enjoying your first P3 day!

Adeline- Sorry you were up this morning, but you are still in your window! That's great!!! It's normal to bounce a little, or a lot. I fluctuate by at least .4- .6 everyday, hardly ever see the same # twice. KUTGW

Shelby- sorry you were up today. We know the med's play a big part in this. Hope you get it figured out soon!

Hope everyone's having a great day!
Tonya

[Arctic_Mama]

Originally Posted by Doing It Right

Taryl- Way to work your way back down before the weekend! I'm sure you'll be back in range tomorrow! Please tell... clouds?

There's recipes floating around here for these cloud thingies, mine was cream cheese, butter, and a little Splenda whipped up and frozen. Tastes just like cheesecake and is wonderful. Too wonderful for me, I kept thinking about them and craving them, then devoured more than I was planning (though amazingly it didn't appear to affect my losses). Some treats, like almond flour cookies, I can have a serving on. Coffee and dark chocolate, same things, no issues. But that hit some sort of switch in my brain where it crossed the threshold and was problematic for me. So other than special occasions they aren't a daily treat.

[Doing It Right]

Thanks Taryl! I make buttercream icing that way. I add a little vanilla to the cream cheese, butter, and sweetener, and put it on a mug cake made with egg, cocoa, truvia & sf syrup. Yummy! Never thought to freeze it! Sorry they were a problem for you.

I haven't tried any of the flours or dark chocolate's yet. I'm P4D19 and very stable. Have a good recipe you could share? I've pretty much been eating the same things since the beginning of P3, and am ready for some new foods. TIA

Tonya

[Arctic_Mama]

Go to Maria Emmerich's blog, she has fanTABulous recipes for all the alternate flours and sugar substitutes. Amazing, tasty stuff and it always turns out, in my experience thus far (she tests these thoroughly before publishing the recipes).

Honestly I do better with next to nothing in terms of treats. The more cooking and baking I do the worse the cheats become, so it is better just to do it for my family with normal ingredients and not eat it than make it especially for me and give myself mental permission. Almond flour doesn't trigger me, for some reason, but I still make recipes with it once a month or so, max. Super dark chocolate (85+ percent) and berries with cream and stevia are fine for me, no crazy cravings, but that is about it!

[shelbyla]

Hey Taryl! Did you see my question about the injection amount? I'd sure love your input...

[Doing It Right]

Thanks Taryl! Funny you should mention that website, I bought her book Nutritious & Delicious over a year ago when on P2. My thyroid & adrenals were so out of whack, I didn't stand a chance in he!! when I started P3, and gained big from day 1. I put that book away before I tried any of it, and totally forgot I had it! Thank You! I'll have to find it. When you say you use 85% chocolate, do you mean like the Lindt bars? I bought some but don't really know what to do with them. I thought they were like bakers choc, to be used in recipes. Do you eat them as is? Thanks for your help!

Tonya

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Well, my lovely P3 buddies, I was UP 0.8 this morning despite a good OP day yesterday and a GREAT night of sleep last night. Bumped up my cortisol meds yesterday and that usually helps me sleep better. I think I have been trying to get off cortisol (wean down) and my body just isn't ready to do it AND diet at the same time. So back onto the cort I go! The difference between 12mg and 20 really isn't that much--until I go hypo. Then it severely messes with me!

Question for those who do the shots--I am thinking maybe Taryl can answer this one but all input welcome from the injection crowd... I started out at 150iu but have been feeling a little more hungry than I'd like. Today I dropped it down to 132iu and am feeling even MORE hungry. Thoughts? Higher or lower on dosage?

I have always done .125 IU's and I'm never ever hungry... didnt you just start? Maybe it will pass or try 125?

I was just doing laundry and the carport bulb went out, the cat got out and I went to catch him, the door slammed shut and I locked myself out of the house with see thru jammies on. Went to my neighbor with my cat in my arms called the locksmith who came and unlocked the door. Then someone knocks on the door selling candy. Then someone knocks on the door selling satellite. Then the neighbor comes over to see if I'm okay and sees my house and starts asking questions like would they sell it, am I on a lease, can she borrow the back yard for a party, can I water her plants when she goes away in June... I'm creeped out. This is why I dont talk to my neighbors.

[Arctic_Mama]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Hey Taryl! Did you see my question about the injection amount? I'd sure love your input...

No, I missed it. Let me go back and look

[Arctic_Mama]

On dosages - the more hCG you take, the worse your hunger will be. I have always taken 125 iU and if I were hungry I'd actually lower my dose. Hunger can persist for a good week upon beginning.

Also, are you injecting or doing sublingual? If you are doing sublingual the dose is 125 iU twice per day, morning and evening, held under the tongue. If you only dose it once a day, like injections, you'll be under dosing and that's an issue. Disregard if this does not apply

[Arctic_Mama]

Originally Posted by Doing It Right

Thanks Taryl! Funny you should mention that website, I bought her book Nutritious & Delicious over a year ago when on P2. My thyroid & adrenals were so out of whack, I didn't stand a chance in he!! when I started P3, and gained big from day 1. I put that book away before I tried any of it, and totally forgot I had it! Thank You! I'll have to find it. When you say you use 85% chocolate, do you mean like the Lindt bars? I bought some but don't really know what to do with them. I thought they were like bakers choc, to be used in recipes. Do you eat them as is? Thanks for your help!

Tonya

I don't use Lindt because it uses vegetable oil, but the Endangered Species brand or Theo are both excellent. Ghiradelli is another brand I am really fond of, and Guittard chips can't be beat for baking (and easy melting).

I'm glad I sparked your memory, Maria is excellent!

[Doing It Right]

Thanks Taryl! Will look for those!

Lara- Sorry you are having a rough evening. Hope you can laugh about it tomorrow b/c it's just a little funny! Glad you got back in the house & with your kitty! :Hugs:

[icecreamjunkie]

Good Morning my lovely hcg buddies!!!
I was way outta sorts yesterday...not sure in my mind what I am doing. I really do much better on a regime! I couldn't tell you what I weigh...refused to get on the scale...even though i know it is up. I will weigh tomorrow since it is my first official day doing the juddd thing w/ my LC p3 lifestyle....so hopefully i can stabilize and go on to lose some more. I am going to start exercising...i can't take not doing it anymore. I feel FLAB E!!!!!

Ok, so the online blood work came back super fast...everything was w/in normal range except my BUN/Creatinine Ratio It was low at 8. I haven't had a chance to google it yet...so, I guess the next step is to get to the doc and have the thyroid and adrenals checked?
Shelby...what do I specifically ask from them so they don't just brush off my concerns? What if all of this was just the stress from the move etc? I also want to have a food allergy test run to see if there is something major there I don't know about. I am willing to do the work....if it meets me half way!

I know I missed a lot of personals being out of sorts yesterday! I hope everyone is awesome and have a super duper friday!!! I will be back at lunch to catch up! Bus duty in a few!~
TGIF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doing It Right]

Hey Theresa- hope your in a better place today! I'm glad you got those results. I wish I could help you read them, but I'm still learning that stuff as I go. I'm sure Shelby will chime in later. The one thing I have learned is that with a lot of the ranges are off. It can say you are in range, but it doesn't mean your optimal. Stick with it, I find some of it very confusing, but with help I'm in a much better place than a year ago. You do know you can order the tests for thyroid & adrenal online also correct? Hope you have a great day!


Hope the scale is kind to everyone else today! I STS 119.8, very excited b/c I had wine again last night. I gained last Fri & Sat after having it (and nuts!). Hoping it wasn't the wine that caused the gain, just the cashews!

Have a great day!
Tonya

[LaraSuzz]

Down 1.5 this am the 5th day of vlcd. =) Lara

[icecreamjunkie]

Originally Posted by Doing It Right

Hey Theresa- hope your in a better place today! I'm glad you got those results. I wish I could help you read them, but I'm still learning that stuff as I go. I'm sure Shelby will chime in later. The one thing I have learned is that with a lot of the ranges are off. It can say you are in range, but it doesn't mean your optimal. Stick with it, I find some of it very confusing, but with help I'm in a much better place than a year ago. You do know you can order the tests for thyroid & adrenal online also correct? Hope you have a great day!


Hope the scale is kind to everyone else today! I STS 119.8, very excited b/c I had wine again last night. I gained last Fri & Sat after having it (and nuts!). Hoping it wasn't the wine that caused the gain, just the cashews!

Have a great day!
Tonya

Awesome on the STS w/ wine! gotta love that!!!

I did not know that I could order those tests as well! Should have done that when i had the others drawn! They had to stick me like six times to get a vein! You don't happen to know the name of those tests do you?

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

Down 1.5 this am the 5th day of vlcd. =) Lara

WOOHOO!!!!! You are losing GREAT!! I am so happy for you that you stuck to your guns and didn't let that last p3/4 stop you from getting to where you are now!!!

[Arctic_Mama]

Theresa, I'm glad your bloodwork came back mostly normal! Yay! I have no idea about the creatine levels so I'd be dr. Googling, but that's just me

Lara, AWESOME LOSSES! Kick that VLCD's butt!

Tonya, I would die of sheer happiness to see such weights on the scale, that is like my lifelong weight goal. I'm glad the wine isn't setting you off at all, ideally you would be able to have things like yogurt, nuts, and wine in moderate portions and no go outside your window - that's a great mark of stabilization.


Me. Well this morning was awesome, actually. Still doing my strict induction for correction days and it is working beautifully. Despite almost 2500 calories yesterday (I overdid for lunch and didn't have enoug calories for my dinner, so I went over, but I was still within range on my carbs), I am actually down a pound to 169.2!

That is back within my range, though slightly higher than I want (168 is the middle of it), but I cannot complain.

Tomorrow is my 26th birthday, woohoo! It will be a break from the keto-correction day series and hopefully not too brutal on me. I already have sushi and two cakes planned - the one from my husband and one my kids are making with their grandma. I already know it is going to be a sugar blowout and I'm sure I'll pay for it, but fortunately I am relegating both the birthday and mother's day to just the one day and then I'm back to normal eating (and a correction day, I'm sure!).

I will likely continue my induction corrections days from Sunday and into next weekend to see what I can get off. If I am at the bottom part of my window I will start transitioning more veggies and some fruit (Atkins phase 2) back in for the remainder of my P4. I cannot rave enough about these correction days - I started Monday at 173.6 of real fat and I'm here on Friday at 169.2. That's excellent!

[LaraSuzz]

Taryl! You're so young!!

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

I have always done .125 IU's and I'm never ever hungry... didnt you just start? Maybe it will pass or try 125?

I was just doing laundry and the carport bulb went out, the cat got out and I went to catch him, the door slammed shut and I locked myself out of the house with see thru jammies on. Went to my neighbor with my cat in my arms called the locksmith who came and unlocked the door. Then someone knocks on the door selling candy. Then someone knocks on the door selling satellite. Then the neighbor comes over to see if I'm okay and sees my house and starts asking questions like would they sell it, am I on a lease, can she borrow the back yard for a party, can I water her plants when she goes away in June... I'm creeped out. This is why I dont talk to my neighbors.

Thanks Lara! I just started Monday but was experiencing REAL hunger even after loading to the gills so just wondering if my dosage was off a little. I dropped down from 150 to 132 yesterday and today just to see if it helped and today seems a little better so tomorrow I will drop to 125. I've seen everything from 125 to 250 (injections) and I usually need slightly more than the standard dosage on the hhcg so thought I would start slightly higher than the bottom of the range.

Btw, sorry to laugh but your description of the whole cat-locked out-creepy neighbor thing is SO something that would happen to me that I was rolling... Too funny, gf!

Originally Posted by Arctic_Mama

On dosages - the more hCG you take, the worse your hunger will be. I have always taken 125 iU and if I were hungry I'd actually lower my dose. Hunger can persist for a good week upon beginning.

Also, are you injecting or doing sublingual? If you are doing sublingual the dose is 125 iU twice per day, morning and evening, held under the tongue. If you only dose it once a day, like injections, you'll be under dosing and that's an issue. Disregard if this does not apply

Thanks Taryl! Doing injections not subling. I did lower from 150 to 132 and will try 125 tomorrow. Thanks so much for the response!

Originally Posted by icecreamjunkie

I did not know that I could order those tests as well! Should have done that when i had the others drawn! They had to stick me like six times to get a vein! You don't happen to know the name of those tests do you?

The thyroid tests are blood tests. You want to get the FREE T3, FREE T4, Reverse T3 (sometimes called RT3), and probably the TSH. If you ask a doctor they will just give you TSH which is pretty useless on it's own. You need the FREE tests (they are also sold NOT free so don't get those) because that is the number that is available for the body to use. Blood tests are also recommended for Serum Iron (which may be part of your CMP as well), TIBC and UIBC because iron is necessary for the thyroid to function properly. If you are going to test iron, you need to iron "fast" for 5 days prior.

The cortisol test is a saliva test. You'll want the diurnal 4x daily saliva test. There are tricks to getting an accurate reading on these as well so if you decide to do it, maybe we can chat offline so as not to bore these nice people...

There are a couple of other blood tests that are recommended but those are the basics. The low BUN/Creatinine ratio relates to your recent low protein diet. It will pick back up once you start eating P3.

Originally Posted by Arctic_Mama

Me. Well this morning was awesome, actually. Still doing my strict induction for correction days and it is working beautifully. Despite almost 2500 calories yesterday (I overdid for lunch and didn't have enoug calories for my dinner, so I went over, but I was still within range on my carbs), I am actually down a pound to 169.2!

That is back within my range, though slightly higher than I want (168 is the middle of it), but I cannot complain.

Tomorrow is my 26th birthday, woohoo! It will be a break from the keto-correction day series and hopefully not too brutal on me. I already have sushi and two cakes planned - the one from my husband and one my kids are making with their grandma. I already know it is going to be a sugar blowout and I'm sure I'll pay for it, but fortunately I am relegating both the birthday and mother's day to just the one day and then I'm back to normal eating (and a correction day, I'm sure!).

I will likely continue my induction corrections days from Sunday and into next weekend to see what I can get off. If I am at the bottom part of my window I will start transitioning more veggies and some fruit (Atkins phase 2) back in for the remainder of my P4. I cannot rave enough about these correction days - I started Monday at 173.6 of real fat and I'm here on Friday at 169.2. That's excellent!

It's so weird... In my HEAD, I am the same age as everyone else! And here I am 18 years older than you! Happy birthday and have a terrific Mother's Day!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for me, down 1.6 today so the 0.8 I had yesterday went and took another 0.8 with it. So that's 0.4 average for the last two days. I'd just like to see a nice drop tomorrow so that I can say I am down at LEAST a pound or two from pre-load last Saturday!

Tomorrow is the Los Angeles Revlon Run Walk for breast cancer. I'll be participating in honor of everyone touched by this disease. If we keeping fighting we are bound to win!

Have a great weekend everyone!

[Arctic_Mama]

Haha! I feel older, if that makes a difference . And my husband is almost a decade older, as well.

That's an excellent drop for your VLCD, Shelby! More days like that and it will be a goooood round.

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by icecreamjunkie

Awesome on the STS w/ wine! gotta love that!!!

I did not know that I could order those tests as well! Should have done that when i had the others drawn! They had to stick me like six times to get a vein! You don't happen to know the name of those tests do you?


WOOHOO!!!!! You are losing GREAT!! I am so happy for you that you stuck to your guns and didn't let that last p3/4 stop you from getting to where you are now!!!

Theresa - I was just reading P&I (again! ) and I came across something that may tie together your edema and your BUN/Creatinine results. I do not know why I didn't think of this sooner! Protein deprivation can cause swelling/water retention/edema. O...M...G! Could this be IT? Could you just be protein deprived??? What is going to happen when you jump into P3 and eat a whole bunch more protein??? Will that solve your water retention issues? Google "protein deprivation edema"--there is TONS of stuff coming up on this... I gotta remember this...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is the relevant passage...

Protein deficiency
During treatment the patient has been only just above the verge of protein deficiency and has had the advantage of protein being fed back into his system from the breakdown of fatty tissue. Once the treatment is over there is no more HCG in the body and this process no longer takes place. Unless an adequate amount of protein is eaten as soon as the treatment is over, protein deficiency is bound to develop, and this inevitably causes the marked retention of water known as hunger- edema.
The treatment is very simple. The patient is told to eat two eggs for breakfast and a huge steak for lunch and dinner followed by a large helping of cheese and to phone through the weight the next morning. When these instructions are followed a stunned voice is heard to report that two lbs. have vanished overnight, that the ankles are normal but that sleep was disturbed, owing to an extraordinary need to pass large quantities of water. The patient having learned this lesson usually has no further trouble.

[icecreamjunkie]

OMG I am so behind on personals i'm lost!!! Taryl what are keto correction days?!? But awesome job on the numbers!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

Shelby....so this round of HCG just needed more protein added? I'm confuddled! In p&i what were they saying the patients had done wrong? If all it would take is a steak and egg day....i can live like that! But i will be so upset about wasting this time! I really need to be skinny.....i can't find jeans and i have some great ones in my closet that are just too small!

Hello all!! I need to spend a day catching up on personals!!!

[shelbyla]

It wasn't that the patients had done anything wrong--it was that they were stalling or even gaining weight due to marked water retention. After the course of hcg treatment, they just didn't eat enough protein! I am wondering if maybe the hhcg or even the batch of rx that you got wasn't effective and your body was reacting to the lack of protein by retaining water??? Could you try having some more lean protein on your last couple of vlcd and see if it helps at all??? I mean, it's not a brownie or GS cookies but it is food...

[Doing It Right]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

Down 1.5 this am the 5th day of vlcd. =) Lara

Great job! Your having an awesome 1st week!

Originally Posted by Arctic_Mama

Tonya, I would die of sheer happiness to see such weights on the scale, that is like my lifelong weight goal. I'm glad the wine isn't setting you off at all, ideally you would be able to have things like yogurt, nuts, and wine in moderate portions and no go outside your window - that's a great mark of stabilization.

LOL!!! Yeah, it's my lifelong, didn't think I'd ever see it, not since I was 10, can't believe this is happening to me, used to weigh twice this weight. Believe me, if I can get here, ANYONE can, but thank you! Yes I'm loving the wine, and eat about 16 oz Gy & 2 oz nuts everyday! I just hope I can keep that lifelong goal weight for life!
Hope you have a fabulous birthday & Mothers' Day. I'm with Shelby on this one, 26? Wow, I'm feeling old at 41 now. I'm so happy your here at 26, maybe you won't have to struggle into your 40's with extra weight. Happy Birthday!!!

Tonya