New rogue hhcg/hcg thread for week of April 30, 2012

[minimonkey]

Today has been hard with the p2 ... some real hunger, but a lot of cravings. I'm genuinely hungry now, but going to ride it out. This p2 is probably going to last twenty three days and one minute, lol -- I have been SO tempted to give up, but I can see that it is working, so I am trudging through. I am hating the effects on my mood, though, so I might do a fat fast day or two just to restore my sanity!

I am planning to weigh in the morning, and hoping to see something below 115... I think that is a real possibility. I didn't weigh up front, but it wouldn't surprise me if I were well over 120 then with all the inflammation!

[C'Marie]

Thanks for your input, ladies. I'm such a rule follower (heck, you know, I am a tax accountant!) that it bothers me even to "plan" to be a little rogue! ha ha ha ha OCD much!? I am looking forward to getting this inflammation down. Diva, how long after your rounds has it helped? If there was a way I could have that without the dietary restrictions I'd take it all the time. it's too bad whatever causes that effect can't be separated. Of course then it'd be a drug and then I wouldn't take it! LOL

[privatediva]

The inflammation stayed clear for longer after my fist round...but it was a really long round, so maybe that makes sense. After my short round, I'd say I got about 6 weeks grace after dosing. I'd take a drug if it worked like HCG does for me. The thing that's annoying about it, is they probably *could* isolate the anti-inflammatory component of HCG but they're so busy denying that it has medical value for weight loss that they likely won't be exploring that.

[goddesslynne]

Good luck with the scale, mini!! I'm beginning to wonder if mine's broken!! Well, if by broken you mean it stuffs cheese in my mouth...ACK!!!

[goddesslynne]

Tried a little experiment yesterday: I was late taking my mid-day dose, and I tried 2 pellets instead of 3. Worked great!! No hunger!! But, tried it again this morning (after having taken 3 pellets last night) and my tummy is growling!! So interesting!!

[minimonkey]

Well -- I faced the scale -- 117.8. Not as low as I hoped, but not as high as I feared it might be, either. I'm content to take 110 as a stopping point for this round, and that seems possible enough, since I have two dreadfully long weeks yet to go. If I stall, though, I am bringing in the fat fast. For now, I'll ride it out in near-protocol.

Lynne-- I hate seeing you stalled for so long!!! Glad the pellet adjustment did some good with the hunger-- maybe you will find the perfect groove with the dosing. My hunger is always on and off, it seems.

[minimonkey]

C'Marie and Diva --

I've been the queen of inflammation the last few weeks, and have been loading up on every natural anti-inflammatory supplement I can manage, plus doing near-protocol this past week. It IS helping -- the systemic enzymes and the Zyflammend supplements in particular seem to help. I've also been taking my fish oil, protocol or not!

I find it interesting that inflammation is now becoming a hot topic in diet/health communities -- when I started being treated for Lyme in 2005, talk of systemic inflammation was still considered a very fringe topic -- but my doctor knew her stuff where that was concerned.

Now it seems everyone is talking inflammation -- pretty interesting shift.

[goddesslynne]

Mini, totally off-topic, but have you heard of Nerium? It's an anti-aging skin cream. Kind-of spendy...but I'm going to give it a try! My jaw line and neck show the ravages of weight release, and it's really getting me down.

[minimonkey]

Lynne -- No, I haven't heard of that one, but you can bet I am going to go look it up right now

I hope it works for you I just dermarolled my face, neck/jawline, and chest last night -- my skin took something of a hit with the last couple of months, and I am doing damage control.

Right now, my biggest grouse with my face (aside from the ever-present battle to keep acne at bay) is my brow wrinkle. I hate that thing! I am going to be doing some single-needling on it, to see if I can isolate it that way. Oh, if I just had the money for Botox and a filler, I'd be all over that... but that is way outside the realm of possibility for now, and probably for some time to come.

After the dermaroll heals completely, I am about due for another TCA peel. I will wait until after my friend's party on the 9th, and then do a good, aggressive peel I think.

I just need to make sure that I have a couple weeks of solitary time for the healing -- a deep-ish peel makes for some serious uglies for a while afterward!

[goddesslynne]

Gotta love TCA!! I've been doing some very light dermarolling, .5 about every other week. For expression lines I also like Peptide Mobilizer.

[minimonkey]

I did a 2 mm roll last night -- not for the faint of heart, but with the nano-needles it isn't bad at all -- I do numb for rolls that deep, especially on the upper lip. The TCA and rolling have all but eliminated my crows feet, which is amazing. Now, if I could just get rid of the forehead wrinkles, I would be one very happy girl!

And yeah, I love me my TCA -- that stuff is miraculous in a lot of regards. If I keep up on a regular peeling rotation (TCA, alternated with a mild salicylic/glycolic) my skin stays in good shape -- but it sure tanks quickly if I let the skincare go.

The results gallery for Nerium is certainly impressive, and it appears to help with acne and redness as well as wrinkles (two things I battle constantly)-- I must admit, that is exceedingly tempting! I may just have to budget for some of that. Even in the leanest of times, I do make room for a self-care budget. It may not be fiscally wise, but it certainly improves my quality of life.


Keep me up to date on how this treats you, assuming you go ahead and get the Nerium. I'm always game to try a new product!

[goddesslynne]

I've already ordered it and I'll be doing before/during/after pics.

[minimonkey]

Originally Posted by goddesslynne

I've already ordered it and I'll be doing before/during/after pics.

Whoohooo ! Can't wait for the pics!!!!!!!!!

[minimonkey]

I decided to rogue it up today with the p2 -- I was HUNGRY! So, I am dropping the fruit, and adding protein and fat (eggs, a bit of MCT oil) up to about 850 calories total. I ate in a window from about 9 am to 1 pm... and am fasting for the rest of the day.

I guess it isn't ALL that rogue as things go, but I have been trying to do this close to protocol, so it seems like a big deviation -- hoping that helps me no have to fight this round quite so hard. In rounds past, doing a day like this every so often has helped keep the losses rolling, and has seemed to help rather than hurt matters.

[goddesslynne]

Sounds good, mini!!

[minimonkey]

I was doing some minor cleaning and organizing (during breaks from grading) and found that I have two left-over days of the best-ever psyllium/bentonite cleanse! So, I think I am going to do it .... it is best done completely fasted.

I will do the first dose tonight, and then do the next two days of it fully fasted -- lemon/vinegar water and tea only, and minimal supplements (and limited coffee, which I never fully quit, even while cleansing).

I figure this is best done while on p2. I've been doing the oxygen cleansing along with the p2 anyhow, but the psyllium/bentonite will kick it up a much-needed notch, and maybe I will drop a pound or two in the process, though that isn't the main goal with a cleanse.

Speaking of cleansing, I am doing some major cleaning/purging of the house, and boy does that ever feel good! Once I am done grading, I will launch into that full force, which will feel wonderful.

I also need to do some emotional housecleaning. Funny how all this stuff comes together when on p2, if one has the time to devote to it. Now, if only I could dump the extra 13-ish pounds into the goodwill pile, along with the other things I don't need, I'd really be in business...lol!

[minimonkey]

Lynne -- after doing some more research, I am definitely going to get the Nerium. I don't care if it is an irresponsible choice fiscally -- (I really can't afford it, and that is an understatement) -- if it does half as much as it seems to do, it'll be the best purchase I've made in a long, long while!

It'll have to wait until I get paid, but I am going to order it as soon as I can. Now, if someone could just make a product that effective on cellulite, we'd really be in business. For now, I am dry brushing and using contouring gel -- and I plan to dermaroll tonight, and then start using the wellbox regularly. That goes a long way to helping cellulite, but it does need to be kept up regularly, or the results go away....

[goddesslynne]

Sent you a pm, mini!!

Today was a disaster, food wise. I've binged, but good. Not sure what brought this on...tummy is sore!!

[minimonkey]

Well. I had a rough day too -- and I ended up eating more than I planned -- I was starving this evening, and after fighting it off for hours, I "caved" and ate two big bowls of veggies. That was my big "indulgence" -- brussel sprouts, mushrooms, and green beans. It did the trick, and filled me up, hence warding off impending dietary disaster (Mini, step away from the almond butter!)

Total calories today was about 1000 I think -- not disastrous, but not what I planned, either.

Good news is that the veggies will just help the next couple of days' cleanse, so there is a benefit to doing it -- and assuming I can keep calories to a real minimum during the fast (usually I can -- no solid food, and I don't generally do juices) all should be well. I may well add some vegetable juice for the additional nutritional and cleansing properties-- but generally fasting treats me pretty well.

I hope this gets me through the slump --- I hate struggle-laden rounds, and this is turning out to be one in many regards ... but my belly is going to love me for all the cleansing, and that is worth it on its own.

[minimonkey]

Lynne -- maybe the up-day will shake things up and get the scale moving for you again. Moving the right direction, I mean!

I'm guessing what brought on the "binge" (your word) is a combination of ongoing hunger, and frustration at seeing the same darn number day after day after day I know that is enough to bring on an eating spree for me after a while!

I am just SO ready for this round to be over, and to move on to JUDDD. I am stubborn enough to stick out the minimum round, but it probably is going to be a bit more rogue from here on in. If it gets me below 110, I'll consider it all worthwhile ... and if it gets me back to 105, I will be doing a major happy dance!

If it doesn't, I may do a JUDDD interruption and some short cycling to see if I can get there -- or I may just be done with hcg phases for a while, and go JUDDD for the last of it. Time will tell.

[goddesslynne]

Yeah, the scale is up bit, but I'm going to see if Bernice visits again before I record the final number. The thing is, I didn't even binge on "good" stuff!! I had 2 hard-boiled eggs, about a cup of guacamole...a huge salad with "regular" dressing and a bunch of mf bars. Probably came in around 2,000 cals.

In better news, I'm starting the next section of ChaLEAN Extreme today!! It always feels good to shake up the work out!!

I did JUDD last year for a bit, and didn't have much success, but maybe if I can just get to goal I can use it as a maintenance tool. I love the idea, maybe it's time to re-visit.

[goddesslynne]

Final weigh in for today, up .6. I'm an idiot.

As I was eating yesterday, I knew exactly what I was doing, but I did it anyway. I was hungry, yes, but also empty. I hate that weird emotional feeling. Even when my stomach was starting to stretch, it didn't seem like enough. Crazy psychological stuff!! No one to blame but myself. And, I was so proud to be in the 150's!! Hope I can keep myself in check and get back there tomorrow.

I don't even know if re-feeding works!! Seems like I've been doing a lot of that lately.

Now I'm rambling. I think if I keep typing somehow the answer will magically pop out of my fingertips. It's depressing...

[goddesslynne]

Well, I guess in 24 days I've released 4.6lbs...that's .19lbs a day which means 665 calories a day deficit. Since I've had some higher calorie days mixed in here...I don't know, I could guess that my daily average is 700? Maybe that means that my average maintenance level would be 1365?? That doesn't seem like much, especially since I'm doing strength training 3x a week for approx. 30-40 minutes.

Just trying to make sense of it all. Is there something wrong with my math? Is there something wrong with ME???

[minimonkey]

Lynne -- a couple of things come to mind. Weight training can definitely stall the scale -- My personal feeling is that the body goes into conservation mode when it knows that muscle building demands are being put on it, and it makes losing much slower.

Yes, those maintenance calories seem very low -- and I hope that you can find a way to raise them. Metabolic rates do differ individually -- but I've suspected for a while that you must have something going on, since you lose so slowly on a pretty drastically low calorie diet.

I hate to say it, but it may be that your metabolism has been down-regulated from all the dieting, and you are in that horrible vicious cycle of "the harder you try, the worse it gets."

That is where something like JUDDD might be helpful -- it seems to work for a lot of people, anyhow -- and the long-term metabolic gains from the added muscle will definitely help.

Your eating yesterday wasn't terrible -- lots of nutritional value in it -- so it probably acted as a "re-feed" more than anything -- and seriously, a .6 gain is nothing to worry about! It'll drop back off, and hopefully take some friends with it!

Long-term caloric restriction leads to bingeing in a lot of people -- it is both physical and psychological -- and my guess is that the psychological part is secondary to the physical.

I don't quite know what to tell you -- it might not be a bad idea to switch to a maintenance plan with a focus on metabolic enhancement, and stop the caloric restriction for now. I know that is a hard decision to make -- but I also know how frustrating it is to be starving oneself and getting nowhere!

[minimonkey]

A for me, I am down a whopping .2 lbs. Today I am cleansing -- I decided to add a small amount of fruit and veggies rather than do juices -- I'll keep them to a minimum, though.

[privatediva]

Sounds like "starvation mode" to me. If your HCG isn't functioning as it should, the caloric deficit will force your body to cease losing...it thinks you're trying to kill it, not make it healthier. I would consider several things:

1. I do not think that hhcg is as effective for everyone as RX HCG. I've seen too much evidence to the contrary. Some people have very good results with it, others simply and utterly *do not*. You can't pick which category you fall in. You might have a better result with RX. I would not, however, switch over until giving my body the complete P3 and P4 break. I think you need to give yourself some nutrition at this point.

2. Your hhcg may not be working. People sometimes have much much MUCH better results, like...instantly...when they give up on one bottle of drops/pellets and open a new one. Who knows why? They're supposed to last longer than they do, it seems, at least for some folks. The only way I would consider continuing is with a new bottle, however, I would go to P3 and start over after that. Your body needs food.

3. I would *not* continue with the status quo. The results are not worth it and you may be causing your body to have some significant metabolic baggage to correct if you are in starvation mode.

4. It's playing with your head (and should be! That's a *miserable* result for as long as you've been 'good'). Move into a full fat P3 with very low carbs for 3 full weeks and see how you feel. You will feel great...in a much better state of mind (and body) to make a reasoned decision about how to proceed. You can't continue to eat VLCD when the body is not responding with loss of lbs. It's not good for you.

[minimonkey]

I think Diva's insight and advice is excellent!!!!!!!

[minimonkey]

My day is going surprisingly easily -- I've had an apple, some strawberries, and a bit of spinach -- along with the psyllium/bentonite, that is enough to keep me feeling perfectly satisfied.

I wish I had a full seven days of this cleanse, but I only have the two. I can't afford to get more right now -- so I will use what I have on hand. It is making for a much easier p2 day, though! I am so very partial to this particular cleanse -- it is just head and shoulders above all the other psyllium/bentonite cleanses that I have used ... I would definitely prefer to hold out until I can get this one again, even though it is pricey.

Later in the summer, I will probably do the full seven days, assuming I can drum up enough money for the whole cleansing shebang.

[goddesslynne]

Diva and mini, I so appreciate your sound advice! But (the big but) I REALLY wanted to get a little closer to goal by the end of June. We're going on a little vacation, and I'd love to be able to swim in the pool and wear my shorts - we're going to Escondido which will be hotter than blazes at that time!

What to do? I'll need to ponder this for another day or so. BTW, I started this round with a brand-new fresh bottle of pellets. I'm using Intermountain from Netrition.

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I am seriously going to lose my mind today -- our phone is shut off due to my partner letting his account get way overdrawn from a fee .. and now I can't find any way to pay it online (he doesn't remember his old email account info, which is all they will accept) -- and the service won't let us call the payment line to make the payment.

I am so tired of all this stupidity and the way we are living -- we're far too broke, and we are in a million big holes that I can't see any way to dig ourselves out of.

I am just going to lie down now and have a good long cry.

I want to just walk away and leave everything behind. Obviously I can't do that, but I am not far from it... I am half considering re-homing the birds, except my two most favorite, selling everything I own, buying a van, packing the two remaining birds into it, and just leaving the known universe.

I HATE when that stuff happens! And then if you DO get to call them, you get some automated program and not a human being. Sometimes I pretend I don't speak English, Spanish, or don't have a push-button phone and I just don't push anything. A lot of times that works but others just hang up on you. I know. I'm rambling and you said nothing about this.

I'm so freakin' sorry you are feeling this way. I am trying to get caught up on this thread but I've been off-line for at least two days with the picnic and then today being at the farm. HOT HOT HOT. Hang in there, honey. I know it feels like nobody's on the thread at times. I have felt like that a lot. I'm sorry I haven't been here for you.

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Thanks, Lynne

I am pretty much at the end of my ability to be strong or tolerant of anything. I'm trying, but I'm sinking into a pretty deep despair. There is only so much one person can handle without snapping, and I am just about there.

I'm going to start looking for some additional work as soon as I get these papers finished being graded... and I have one class in the fall with a prospect of a second, but it is not nearly enough to live on ... we have no insurance, we can't afford rent, I have no car, and the list goes on and on and on.... I really am very close to the point of wanting to make sure that the birds have good homes, and... well, I won't finish that sentence.

It's a lot on your plate and you seem to always have liked to work under a certain amount of pressure, but it's just too much for you right now. I feel you, honey. Do what you need to do in order to get back to a place where you feel it's manageable and then little by little you'll sort the rest out. I know you love the birds but if they are more of a stressor and something you feel you need to take care of (when you are finding it difficult to even house yourself!) then do what you need to do. You're kind and I know you will work something out.

It's almost midnight here and I just wanted to respond to these two posts before I close for the night. I have much reading and commenting to do. It will have to wait.

Jackie, sounds like you're feeling better! Hope so. C'Marie, nice seeing you around here again! (Or is it your first time roguing? I think you said it was.) Anyway, good to see you. Interesting about the inflammation index. Will look that up, too.

Lynne, I don't know what to say. Hope you enjoyed the cheese! I can just see you rolling your eyes and your taste buds jumping for joy. Maybe you just need a little break to reset before starting over strong.

As for me, stay tuned. Tomorrow I will get through all these posts and give a synopsis of my life as of late! Promise.