Cycling
 

Tell me about cycling. I am day 9 of P3, R2 of Rx HCG. I did 6 week P3/P4 between rounds 1 and 2 and am really chomping at the bit to go straight back into P2 at the end of this 3 week P3. It will hopefully be my last round.

I read someone say recently that some people have sucess with cycling if they do a full normal R1 P2/3/4 and a full normal final round. It's tempting me to short cycle and skip P4 this one time just to cross the finish line. But I really don't want to be short sighted and go for that instant gratification I love at the risk of not stabilizing.

I am 18 lbs away from goal and 100 lbs lost. I want it NOW!!! But just couldn't prolong my last round past 50 days. It was brutal. I'm feeling ready again now though.

Hope you get some good feedback, Sue -- I'm so rogue and my successes so equivocal, I am not even chiming in on this one, lol!

I'm thinking I wouldn't do it for either my first round OR my last, due to the possible de-stabilization issues. But that's just me, because I'm very concerned about getting and staying stable. Nothing wrong with doing a "touch-up" round now and again, sorta like a yearly lean and clean, but it'd be nice to not HAVE to because of gains.

You'll get advice all over the place on this one, I think. Some people just manage to do fine no matter how much they tweak, and some of us can't "get away" with anything off protocol. YMMV.

Appreciate the input, and understand that any modification is taking a risk. C'Marie, can you clarify the "full last round" part? Do you mean doing a full P3 and P4 after the last round, or including the P3/P4 that precedes and follows the last P2?

I fully intend to do full P3 and P4 after, just wondering about the before part.

I won't come back angry at anyone if it doesn't work well, or if I don't hear what I want to hear. Just trying to understand the riskiness of the risks, haha!

I think I mean making sure your last round has enough time before it, at least a full 6 weeks between the 2nd to last round and the last one, give the body time to rest, and then doing a perfectly on protocol P2, and a full P3 and P4. I just personally feel we risk not receiving the full potential benefit of the protocol by varying off of the original advice of the good Dr. Simeons. Of course, just like everyone else, I'm getting tempted to just finish because I'm tired of being in limbo and I'd like to be done. But I plan on making sure my last round can actually be my *last* and have those losses be as set as possible.

I know. I'm looking at atleast 3 more rounds..as I seem to be averaging a 25-28# loss for the long rounds. Been wondering if between round 2 and 3 I "Must" do the 8 weeks..or if I'm sabotaging myself further down the way...:dunno:

Appreciate your postings here.

Dr. Simeons did not have homeopathic in his day... nor did he tell us about folks doing shorter rounds... meaning 21 days... and how the "breaks" relate to shorter rounds. When discussing the time between treatments it is AFTER his section on the 40 day treatments with Rx hcg and the breaks between are lengthened to stave off immunity primarily... now this is how I interpret his writings. I think it very wise to read and re-read that section and decide WHY he is recommending extended phase 4's after each round. It appears to me that the primary reason is because of immunity... which does not apply to those who use homeopathic or is it for health purposes in general?? (because of the VLCD being very difficult on the endocrine system ie. thyroid & adrenals... when he does NOT mention but we know to be true b/c thyroid and adrenals need fat and having no fat for 40 days is TOUGH on them).

Thus, there is the entire cycling theory when homeopathics are used, 21-40 days VLCD followed be 3 weeks phase 3 then right back into VLCD. That when using homeopathic it is "safe" to cycle because you can never become immune to the hcg.

There is also the question as to whether or not you'll ever reach immunity even if you are using Rx. There are many clinics out there that use the Rx that do rounds 60 days long... some do continuous VLCD's until goal is reached... and almost NEVER see immunity in their patients. Now... I'm parroting this as I've heard it from folks who are treated in clinics.. I have NOT used a clinic myself. But it is worth thinking about.

Then there is the entire stabilization issue. Some say follow the plan to a "t" or there is no guarantee of stabilization... I say... some follow the plan to a "t" and STILL cannot stabilize so I find no security in that train of thought.

There... now I've given you no absolute answers... simply more to chew on while you weigh out your choices! :-) LOL!

Blessings,
Shirley -- Phase 3 -- Total hcg loss: 88.8 pounds in 3 rounds totaling 145 VLCD days!

Thank you for all your thoughtful opinions!

I actually do Rx at a clinic where they say you don't have to take breaks and should never experience immunity. I'm an anomaly there because I can't seem to withstand more than 50 days. They just don't get it. I don't know how people can go straight through for that long!

I don't know if what I experience is immunity at the end of a long round - my doctor just says it doesn't happen on Rx sublingual tablets. But it is either that, or what you are talking about regarding the impact to thyroid and adrenals. What I know is weight loss slows down and I get hungry and bored with the food.

My doctor said I don't have to do a P4 at all - I called her to ask. But she also doesn't really seem to know much about strict protocol, just her adapted one which I generally follow.

I've about decided that I am going to do back to P2 without a P4 this time, in about 10 days. But that depends on a few things maintenance wise for me. I'm having a very weird P3. Very stable, but actually trending slightly downward and as of today am 2.6 lbs under last HCG. I've increased calories and protein but I think I may continue to lose weight and if it does continue I may not go back on HCG unless it stops. Wouldn't it be cool if the last 17 lbs just melted off on their own?

Sue.. that is AWESOME.... I agree.. let it slide down as far as it will go.. perhaps your hypothalamus HAS healed and your body is not metabolizing fat as it SHOULD and you might not NEED another round... that would be FABULOUS!!

You go girl!!

Blessings,
Shirley -- Phase 3 -- Total hcg loss: 88.8 pounds in 3 rounds totaling 145 VLCD days!

Sue -- indeed, that is awesome, and perhaps there is no need for another round!

I'm thinking of skipping p4 also. I mean, why would I follow the protocol to stabilize when I still have 70 lbs to lose? I don't want to stabilize at 190 lbs. I think it's just a waste of time.

My only hesitation is that I want to follow the protocol to a T because I'm hoping it will repair my metabolism. I'm afraid that if I make up my own rules I will mess up the process and I've already worked so hard on it.

I might just observe SueQ and see how it turns out for her. Will you keep us posted SueQ? I might be joining you next week, but just not absolutely sure yet.

Is there anyone out there who skipped p4 and went right back to p2? I hope there is someone who will share their experience trying that.

I will let you know how it goes. I'm pretty stable 2 weeks into P3 now just a little under last HCG weight and think I am going to load and start another round the weekend after next. It will probably be a 30 day round minimum, 50 day max because that is how much medication I will have left if I buy 1 more prescription. And I can't do more than 50 days. Of course it will be even longer after that to see how well I stabilize. But I just have a feeling this is ok. For me anyway, right now.

SueQ, how's it going? Update?

It's VLCD #2 today, so too early to tell. It does seem that I put on more loading weight than usual and didn't lose as much the first day as I normally do. I normally lose all the load weight the first day, and I only lost 2 lbs of the 4 I gained.

I did introduce the grissini this time, which I didn't do in the past. I was hoping it would make me more tolerant of carbs/grains in my final P3 and P4. If the weight loss is slower I will eliminate that.

I'll come back and update here as I go along. Thanks for checking!

2 lbs in two days sounds excellent to me. I gained 10 lbs on my last load and it took a week to lose it. Tell me, did you get carby on your load days? I did and I think that's why I gained so much, but you coming straight from p3 probably loaded up on low carb foods, right?

Haha, ok, have to update on day 1 losses. Had a little bathroom activity and have to say the first VLCD loss after loading is 3.8 lbs, more back to normal.

No, I got carby on my load days. It was high fat, but I love the high fat foods like ice cream and reese's peanut butter cups that come with a lot of sugar. I am confusing the issue because I had a higher carb day just prior to loading and I gained. It was the first day outside my LDW window my entire P3, and it was a loading day so I had to "take it" and not do a CD. It looks like this:

LDW: 155.4
Load D1 weight: 158.2
Load D2 weight: 160.2
VLCD1 weight: 162.2
VLCD2 weight: 158.4

So I started out 2.8 lbs over LDW, then gained 4 lbs. If I can get back to LDW tomorrow I will be thrilled!

Thanks for the details SueQ. I'm so interested in how this will go for you cuz like I said before, I still have 70 lbs to go so why should I try to stabilize at 190?

I was listening to a podcast from HCG guru Colin Watson and I did get some sense out of the reasoning for completing p1 - p4 before starting all over again.

You know how our bodies stall when we get to a setpoint? (a setpoint is a weight that we had previously stayed at for quite a while at some time in our life). Well if we don't complete p1 - p4 we won't establish a new setpoint because we don't stay at a certain weight long enough.

For instance, I started dieting with Atkins last July when I was 250 lbs. Since then I have steadily been losing weight. I started HCG in December and continued losing. My LDW I'll round off to be about 190 lbs. If I don't stay at about 190 lbs for long enough, my last setpoint will still be 250 lbs. 250 lbs is the weight my body will try to get back to should I screw up or something. But, if I complete all phases just as Simeon prescribes then my weight will default to 190 lbs and I won't have as big of a struggle.

So, each time we complete a round fully, we reset to a new and lower setpoint. Now that makes sense to me so as much as I want this weight off of me, I'm thinking that I will just stick to the protocol.

That's my thoughts for now, but I'm still keeping ane eye on SueQ to see how it works out.

Your journey sounds a lot like mine. I started at 240 and did non-HCG lifestyle and diet changes to get down to about 195. HCG has gotten me from there to where I am now. I agree that sticking to protocol makes a lot of sense. I have issues with instant gratification:) I know I am taking a chance doing it this way, but I also have no idea what my body thinks a set point might be, since I've been losing weight for a little over a year now.

When I decide to stabilize and be done losing weight, that will be the challenge for me and I've certainly had experiences with it in my previous P3 and P4's. I can stabilize easily doing strict P3, but when I try to introduce carbs things get very volatile. I know this will take some discipline and energy once I get there, but I'm sort of just kicking it down the road and hoping to do it well, once, after this round.

I'm not recommending this path to anyone who may be following my updates, just letting you all see how my experiment goes and explaining why I choose to do it this way.

FWIW, my mother says it takes two years of a lifestyle change for it to become normal for anyone. I'm encouraged to know I am half way there, and trying to be patient with myself during that time. I can definitely see how things have changed for me already, and also how quickly I can fall back into old behaviors, too.

I know SueQ, I do think our stats are similar. I hope I can do as well as you have.

Even though I'm in p4 I'm still pretty much eating Atkins induction style. Not only do I enjoy what I eat, but I'm just afraid to add carbs. I too, can gain so easily just by upping the carbs a little. I started hcg because I hoped that after several rounds when I get to goal, I would be able to eat like a normal person. You know, with the hope that hcg would fix my metabolism. As it stands now, I'm afraid to even give it a chance.

Maybe when I finally get out of the obese category, I'll be willing to take the risk.

Felina - This is how I am in P4. I'm pretty much still in P3 due to fear... that's why I generally talk about P3/P4 together. If I've already completed P3 and have a little carb - a mini piece of candy or a small breadstick or something, my P3 mindset (and past Atkins mindset) suddenly takes over and says, "well, now you've blown it! Might as well live it up the rest of the day because no matter what you'll be correcting tomorrow!" The problem is that if I just stop at that small amount of carb and resist all other temptations for the day, I just might be ok! The other problem is by adding carbs, I don't necessarily cut out other things. It's like I eat my normal P3 portions that I was accustomed to, and then I add carbs to it instead of substituting for some other calories I consumed. So although I'm not exactly counting calories, I know that I'm just adding more to what I was eating instead of eating a little less of the P3 stuff with the little bit of carb. It's very hard to step back and just take a logical look at the whole situation without becoming emotional when in the moment.

Also, we have to realize that our weight might fluctuate with or without the carbs. We might gain a pound overnight after eating a small carb portion and instantly think the gain was because of the carb. So we automatically think we can't have carbs at all. Meanwhile, we could still be safely in our range and we just might have had the same pound of weight fluctuation even if we hadn't had the carb.

P4 is kinda scary. I'm wondering how gradual I could possibly be. After I've completed P3 and feel stable, I'm wondering if I should try just 1/4 of a slice of bread with butter on the side of one meal daily and keep that up for a whole week my first week of P4, provided I don't need to correct. I've heard of some people adding a whole portion of carb at a time, but maybe I just need to keep it smaller to help my body adjust better.



Good luck, Sue! I look forward to hearing some more results from you.

I'm not sure these are "results", but I said I would update, so here it is.

I'm stopping this round 1 week into it. My losses are not stellar, but it is TOM and I expect I will end this round at exactly my last LDW and make the last week a wash given my loading weight and 2 lb gain the day prior to loading. I don't like cutting it short after only 7 days, however I think the biggest "risk" is that I will stabilize at last LDW - which is exactly where I am right now.

My experience with cycling is that I don't feel like I got enough of a break in between, whether that is physical or emotional I cannot say. I am hungrier and just less motivated to deal with it. I do think immunity is a bit of an issue for me based on the way I feel at the end of a longer round, and it seems like that is what is kicking in sooner this time. Or maybe I'm just tired of dieting and since I'm in a healthy weight range the motivation behind losing vanity weight isn't as strong as unhealthy weight.

So that's my story:)

SueQ, I'm sorry that cycling didn't work out for you but like you said, you are at a healthy weight. If I'm reading your stats correctly, you only have ten lbs to go. You're next round will take care of that.

And IThinkICan, I am adding carbs a little at a time like you suggested. I had a little breaded topping on my low carb casserole and a piece of sugar-free banana bread. Oh, that was so with it! I also had a serving of coconut water that was 5 carbs. It didn't cause me to gain but I'm out of ketosis.

Sue.... would it be considered hijacking your thread if I post my cycling results here? I decided to head back into phase 2 after about 3 weeks of phase 3 and 1 1/2 weeks of phase 4. So far so good, but it is only day 2 VLCD.

Please do! The more experience the better, since the question comes up so often!

Thanks Sue.... when did your last round get tough? Did it just hit you or was it yucky from the get go??

This round I feel GREAT! I have only a little hunger at meal times and I'm sticking to the protocol VERY strictly with the exception of not weighing daily. I am also keeping up with my exercise. I'll be doing 2 aerobic miles on Mon, Wed, & Fri, and my weights & 1 aerobic mile (unless I feel up to 2) on Tues, Thurs, Sat. I don't work out on Sunday.

I plan to NOT weigh daily so I can just keep my head in the game and stick with perfect VLCD's. We'll see how it goes.... I'm looking at about 30 days... maybe 35 at the most. I think that knowing that this round IS ending around 35 days is helping me too. I KNOW it is not going to be a long one... been there done that.... and I also know that I seem to stick to the protocol REALLY well for the first 30-35 days. Then I snap and need to move on! My TOM should be done between 30-35 days so I'll end as soon as I can after TOM and HOPE to lock in a LDW in the 140's.

Shirley, that is awesome! I would soooo do another round if I thought I could handle it. The last one was hard right off the bat. I was hungry all the time. It felt like I just picked up feeling how I felt when I ended the last round. I'm on day 10 of P3 and so far stabilizing well.

I will be following you here to cheer you on and see how it goes for you!

Thanks Sue.... I really struggled through doing JUDDD and losing the weight I gained in phase 3 slowly or just cycling back. We have a family wedding to attend May 17th.... so cycling back won. I KNOW This protocol works when I follow it strictly... so here I am... gonna be closer to that goal by the wedding... actually by the beginning of May so I can shop for a dress!

I had planned on switching to Rx as soon as my labs were drawn this Tuesday, but I'm feeling GREAT on the new bottle of homeopathic I'm using... so I'm thinking that I will use it for the first 10 days, then switch to the Rx for 20 days then back to homeopathic to finish up... if TOM lingers. I'll keep ya posted on how I'm feeling... but like I said.. I don't plan to weigh often. I'm hoping to just see and feel the fat being sucked out!:clap:Already I can see an difference in my belly. BUT I always feel bloated after loading. :hyst:

Still feeling GREAT and using the hhcg drops. I may switch to Rx soon. Today is day 6, I weighed yesterday and have lost 5.8 pounds as of day 5 (yesterday). I only gained 2. something so I'm pleased thus far. Hubby has decided to join me and is on his second load day today. He has traveled a lot the past two months and had a LOT of stress, weird sleep patterns, you name it and has gained about 15 pounds back. He'd like to get it off b/f May when we will see his family. I'm glad to have him doing this round with me, we've done two others together too.

Thanks for the helpful posts. I'm new to hGC and this forum, but so far so great. I was planning on cycling and was glad to find some first hand accounts. I took my 13th injection this morning (11th day vlcd) and have dropped 16.5 lbs so far. My plan is to do 3 weeks hCG/VLCD followed by 3 weeks of Atkins induction (with weight loss) and then repeat until all 75 lbs are lost. Then do stabilization only after I'm at my goal. We'll see... Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for posting your experiences.

:welcome: Jeff!

Sounds like you are off to a GREAT start! :clap:

My hubby just started round 3 today.. finished loading yesterday and is on VLCD 1 today. He is not cycling b/c he had a full 8 weeks since the end of his last round. I thought I was going to do this round solo, but he jumped in to shed 15 pounds he was struggling with keeping off after his last round due to travel for work, stress, and not much sleep (due to the stress at work).

Here is something to think about... those that I've read about that have the best level of success with cycling do perfect phase 2 and perfect phase 3. Keep that in mind and realize that no matter WHAT happens... tomorrow is a new day!