HCG and food/diet/body issues, working with the inner self.

[SueQ]

I am starting to feel almost militant and I'm not sure against who. For goodness sake, does this make any sense!?

YES!! Oh my, this is exactly how I feel. I get so dug-in sometimes, that is the word that keeps coming to mind. I am going to do this no matter what. I can't figure out who I am fighting either but I think it is this sense that I can't have it. For me it starts with a sense of comparison to other people's bodies and watching the way other people eat, and really I don't know how they eat all the time, but when I see thin people eating pizza or dessert I get jealous and feeling like i am so different from everyone else and that i have to suffer all the time if I want to stay thin and it seems others don't have to. And I don't even necessarily like the way I feel when I eat things that aren't good for me.

My mentor tells me that comparison comes from a place of lack and not accepting something about ourselves. I don't know where I am going with this, just a bunch of stuff running through my head this morning.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

I posted this quickly in the P2 and P3 thread (a combined thread which is usually the only place I post when I'm in a hurry) --
I am stress eating. That's unusual for me. Usually under stress I starve so this is relatively new. I am not eating much that is *bad* but the volume of food, even P3 seems very high and I am a little freaked out about it right now. I feel I am gaining and I am afraid to weigh but I know better. I have lost 100 pounds and NOW feel like eating? WTH. I am considering going and getting some appetite suppressants for a stop-gap measure until this busy season for me ends April 17. Ideas? Anything actually healthy for me to take? I need to get a grip or jump back on P2, which I had just decided not to do to keep my energy up higher.

Putting your two emails together it sounds like you have some kind of inner sabotage going on and the stress eating is a part of this.
Your underlying belief/feeling about cheating (with the hcg) and "not deserving" might be manifesting itself in this particular new eating pattern.
ie, you are fighting yourself- or some part within yourself that has conflicts about being and deserving to be thin, or having what you want.

I can agree with the militant thing though- it is good to assert your will and say- "this is what I want!!!" ,
and go for it with all your might.
But I think at the same time it is wise to try and dig out the roots of the underlying sabotage that might be working against you.

As far as appetite suppressants- hoodia works for some (didnt for me though)-and is a healthy option.

I also used the ECA stack for a while; white willow bark, ephedra and caffeine;
it works really well at first to give a big energy boost and suppress appetite;
but over time the effect diminishes,
and I dont think its a particularly healthy option- stimulates the central nervous system and wears out the adrenals..

There is other stuff out there- though it is not jumping to mind-
but at the end of the day-
I think all these things can work in the short term, but long term they have diminished effects and all tend to fail in one way or the other.
It is also hard to cheat true hunger (if that is what it is)
and suppressing in the short term can potentially have a back lash effect of much larger rebound hunger when you stop the appetite suppressant.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

@Nola, I'm very sorry to hear someone betrayed you. You don't deserve anything but true friends in your life. (((HUGS)))

Thankyou
It hurts! I am dealing with it though..

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by SueQ

I really think it is based in that whole cheating the system thing you mentioned in a post above, although those aren't the words that you used. I don't believe that I am capable of having the body I want, and that I am finding some kind of loophole using HCG to lose the weight I do, and that there will be a cost. It changes enough each time that I get to experience it new and not be completely able to convince myself it isn't real.

I decided tonight to stop the HCG. I'm mostly past the fear, or dealing with it ok, but I'm getting hungrier and don't have that underlying high level of motivation to make it worthwhile. It's my TOM again, so I'm basically exactly at last round LDW, which is ironic, because the big risk I think in stopping the HCG short of 23 days is that my body will try to stabilize at the exact weight I am right now....hahaha!!!!!

I spend the day shopping with my sister and she said a lot of things to me that I can hear from her and believe, because she is very thin and fit and doesn't sugar-coat things or say things just to make me feel good. She basically told me that I looked as thin as my Mom (who looks great, that is a good thing!), that she doesn't think I need to lose another 20 lbs and asked me if I worried about getting too thin. I am starting to think all of this dieting is keeping me from seeing my own body objectively. I am not too thin or close to that, however, I don't think I am as fat as I think I am, and I think I am much more "normal" in weight than I am able to see. I took my last HCG dose tonight, I am not going hungry anymore, and I am going to focus on loving my body exactly how it is right now and appreciating all the hard work I have done up to this point.

I am going to P3, then start some exercise, and I have a consult with a plastic surgeon in May. I'm not even close to being ready to make a decision about a tummy tuck, but I want information. That is the one part of my body it is hardest to accept the way that it is, but the more research I do the more it seems that my issue isn't going to be corrected by diet and exercise. I'll either learn to accept and love it, or have a tummy tuck. Nothing extreme about that, is there???? At least I'm not deciding now.

My sister had a tummy tuck for lots of loose skin after three babies- (she is tiny - she only had a half one- on the lower stomach- she thought that would be enough. But she is really disappointed with it now- says it was a waste of time because the loose skin from the top just kind of dropped down over time, and overall it is not looking better now.
She also had liposuction for tiny saddlebags- but says now she is not happy with that either- at first it was good and okay but now she says the skin and flesh is all loose and baggy in that area(in a way it wasnt before and doesnt
look any good- no better than before overall! (she exercises plenty too)..
She also had small breast implants and has continued to be happy with those.

Stopping the hcg seems good- sounds like you are listening to your body and following it.
And loving and accepting and appreciating it and yourself for all the hard work you have done so far- I like it!

I have found a hundred ways in which I believe and feel that I am actually fat -
and so thin is not my natural state and I dont deserve it and shouldnt have it-
ie :
its an "illegitimate" state for me
and I am "cheating" and "tricking" my body by being thin!
(and cheating and tricking my body into being thin,
ie- I have to cheat and trick my body in order to get thin!)

And a hundred ways in which I "dont deserve" and am "not worth it",
and shouldnt have "thin" ;
or indeed have anything good that I want in my life!

And I am only exaggerating a small bit..

To me- I will know I have overcome enough of my inner sabotages when I naturally manifest thin without controlling and manipulating my diet!

Generally speaking, I always "feel" fatter than I actually am, and it is definitely about inner feelings skewing my perspective.

[C'Marie]

Thank you both very much for your replies. Nola, you're right, I know any kind of appetite suppressant will only hold back the tide for so long and then I will have to deal with the underlying issues. I am feeling really emotional right now and it's like I can't let myself feel it because it distracts from what I must be accomplishing right now-I only have 3 weeks to finish out my busy season. It is right there, barely below the surface and I feel I will be out of control if I acknowledge it. That's how it feels sometimes, anyway - other times my mood is great and I am extremely productive and happy! I think I will find some homeopathic "calm" or appetite suppressant stuff and distract myself with cut up celery and carrot sticks and make it through and then schedule a good cry! LOL

[SueQ]

C'Marie - I used PGX, which is a fiber supplement you stir into water or a drink. It seemed to help me feel fuller longer last week when I was on the HCG.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

Thank you both very much for your replies. Nola, you're right, I know any kind of appetite suppressant will only hold back the tide for so long and then I will have to deal with the underlying issues. I am feeling really emotional right now and it's like I can't let myself feel it because it distracts from what I must be accomplishing right now-I only have 3 weeks to finish out my busy season. It is right there, barely below the surface and I feel I will be out of control if I acknowledge it. That's how it feels sometimes, anyway - other times my mood is great and I am extremely productive and happy! I think I will find some homeopathic "calm" or appetite suppressant stuff and distract myself with cut up celery and carrot sticks and make it through and then schedule a good cry! LOL

Hang in there- it definitely sounds like emotional stuff surfacing .
Just get through the best you can for now until there is more time and energy to deal with it.
Homeopathics or celery sticks.. lol.. or whatever will do the trick.

There are the bach flower remedies too;
they have a 'rescue remedy'- which is for stressful physical or emotional situations..

[C'Marie]

This is a repost from the p2/p3 thread I usually frequent.

I took a mental health day for myself today. There, I said it ! LOL

I went and got some Kava and some Rescue Remedy from my naturopath, and then went and had a chiropractic adjustment, and then went and met my sis-in-law and got my toenails clipped and buffed (not polished) and then went out to dinner with my sis-in-law and my mom-in-law and then went to mom-in-law's house and watched "dancing with the stars" which I never do.

Ate sensibly today, GY and blueberries/coffee brx, zucchini pizza lunch, some Applebee's ribs and salad for dinner, and strawberries with stevia for dessert. I took my vitamins and now I'm going to bed. I hope my weight is not up AGAIN tomorrow, but if it is, I'm going to try not to panic about it - it gives me stress pains in my chest when I start getting anxous - I need to find my inner zen LOL..... and use support mechanisms and supplements so I don't stress eat anymore

Burying myself in work used to be enough. Apparently, it's not anymore!

Love to you all....

[SueQ]

Good for you! I felt all zen just reading about all those loving things you did for yourself!

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

This is a repost from the p2/p3 thread I usually frequent.

I took a mental health day for myself today. There, I said it ! LOL

I went and got some Kava and some Rescue Remedy from my naturopath, and then went and had a chiropractic adjustment, and then went and met my sis-in-law and got my toenails clipped and buffed (not polished) and then went out to dinner with my sis-in-law and my mom-in-law and then went to mom-in-law's house and watched "dancing with the stars" which I never do.

Ate sensibly today, GY and blueberries/coffee brx, zucchini pizza lunch, some Applebee's ribs and salad for dinner, and strawberries with stevia for dessert. I took my vitamins and now I'm going to bed. I hope my weight is not up AGAIN tomorrow, but if it is, I'm going to try not to panic about it - it gives me stress pains in my chest when I start getting anxous - I need to find my inner zen LOL..... and use support mechanisms and supplements so I don't stress eat anymore

Burying myself in work used to be enough. Apparently, it's not anymore!

Love to you all....

It sounds like a lovely day!

"burying myself it work used to be enough.. not anymore!"
It must be your time - the suppressed stuff is coming up and wont be buried anymore.

Well - it was like that for me at any rate!
At the beginning of the year it all started. I dont think it could have been any other way really- just meant to be..

[nola baxter]

Well, I has been a really interesting time for me lately, in and out.
I have been a bit busy externally so have not had as much time to process things, but have mananged to come to some points of clearance anyway.

After experiencing this massive betrayal on Friday, I did some inner work,
and went into a traumatic experience wherein I was in such shock (and horror),
that it kind of felt like I had catapulted out of my body, and was floating out in space a bit and viewing myself from a distance.
And viewing myself as if through a lens of shock and horror and disgust and revulsion,
and , primarily - profound and deep self-rejection.
I didnt want to come back into my body and feel or experience or be in touch with my body . I wanted to be separate from my body and myself.
I no longer felt trust in myself or my being, but rather reviewed it with profound disgust, fear and mistrust.
At this point I felt a strong state of "self" rejection.

There were a lot of aspects and offshoots to this experience and state;
but the thing I realised yesterday was that in this shock of betrayal- through an act perpetrated by someone else;
I actually betrayed my "self".
I BETRAYED MY SELF
I believed in what someone else was doing to me, more than I believed in myself.
I made them, and their actions, an authority over myself.

ie, Their actions told me I was digusting, horrible and worth ****, and to be treated as dirt (this is what I felt during the experience),
and so I believed this to be true (on some level).
I believed in what their actions showed to me about myself- I was not worth anything.

And moreover:
that I - my "self", was "wrong"! and could never be trusted again.
I had believed and trusted in this person- who couldnt be believed and trusted in (their actions had shown otherwise).

Probably the most damaging thing of the whole experience was the breaking of trust in myself and of my "self" (my body);
I felt I could no longer believe in and trust myself, my feelings or my body in any way.
Profound and systemic distrust and mistrust;
both of myself- it all its aspects
and of others.

I can never trust and believe in myself ever again
and
I can never trust and believe in anyone else ever again.

And-
I can never honour my body:
I cant believe in my body. listen to my body listen to my feelings, or place any value in myself or on myself.
I can never "value" or "honour" myself
I cant honour myself - my body, my hunger, needs and desires, feelings, thoughts etc.
I am of no "value"..

But the king pins were realising that in this state and during the act perpetrated by someone else;
I both profoundly rejected my self
and
"betrayed my self " - albeit unwittingly..

And the key understanding or ground of the self- betrayal was
in making someones else's actions feelings and thoughts greater than my own.
Making someone elses thought actions and feelings about themselves (because others only act upon us according to how they truly feel about themselves on the inner),
to be more than my own feelings and thoughts about myself.

I let them , and their actions, be the determinant of my worth,
and of my trust and belief and acceptance of myself.

Okay- I know this is a tad garbled and incoherent- but maybe you will get the idea!
I am still in the process of full understanding.

[nola baxter]

And..
Interestingly enough- my female friend- who was trying to reconnect after I felt she had broken the trust;
came round to my house over the weekend..
it was okay but I still felt unresolved over it and was not giving any ground.

In essence, I was sitting with and honouring my own feelings of distrust and hurt in the situation, and not giving over until these things had been satisfied.

Then the next day she phoned, and basically lay herself bare emotionally-
very much put herself and her feelings on the line in a very honest and courageous way- with no encouragement from me.
She said she had felt she owed me more, and owed me more of an explanation- because of the depth and closeness of our relationship- or what had been the depth and closeness of our relationship.
After this- I felt the balance had been fully redressed.


And also- I felt it at least partly came as a result of sitting with and honouring my own feelings, and hurt and sense of injustice , etc, etc.

An external manifestation of an internal shift-
because always in the past-
I have not honoured my own feelings ,
and have often carried blame and the "burden" for others, "carried the can" - so to speak;
and not truly accepted and honoured my own hurt and sadness and made space for it,
and not honoured my need for justice- and fairness;
and not believing and trusting that I should and can indeed get it!!

[nola baxter]

I am starting to feel and wonder about taking all the brakes off with my diet again.

It has been about two weeks of restricting food to around my maintenance level.
Overall, this has been okay, but there have been times when I am definitely reigning in and "controlling" my hunger to fit into the calorie level;
and I dont feel as full, rounded, and energetic as I do eating more freely- which ends up at a higher calorie intake.

My body has downsized during this 2 weeks;
on a calorie level I was either maintaining at or gaining before.

I would like to be completely free with my eating, but it is damn scary and throws up heaps of stuff.
And I do like my body lean- and am not sure if releasing the reins again is going to cause gain still, or if things will be okay this time.
I am just holding the two things in my hands- allowing and restricting-
and tossing up between the two of them.

I am more free now than before- and "allow" my body more;
but- I am definitely "restraining" it too.

I am writing this here.. again.. , just to put it out there:
as an internal and an external question,
and;
feeling the pull and tug of both things,
for and against.

[nola baxter]

Well, I have been moving on from self betrayal,
and utterly turning from and rejecting myself;
and onto self-subjugation and self-abuse! lol

I started to work on a fear in my belly (why does fear seem to be so often in the belly?- or is it just for me?),
and I started getting words around self-capitulation, capitulating myself, giving myself over,
and then fear- fear all around self capitulation, and fear around abuse;
and giving myself over "in" fear (afraid of what happens when I give myself over)
and giving myself over "out" of fear (fear and threat of what happens if I dont give myself over).
Afraid of capitulating myself,
and afraid not to capitulate myself,
and the fear, always around abuse.
Afraid of abuse, afraid that I will always "have to " be abused (punishment issues),
and afraid,"I will always be abused" - whether I capitulate, or whether I do not capitulate.

And twist and turns- if I capitulate myself, and make it okay in this way;
I abuse my soul- my "self" that feels it wrong/bad/awful/abhorrent.
If I dont capitulate myself, I suffer the fear and possibility of threat and some sort of punishment, or negative consequence to myself.

And underlying concepts - truths - feelings or realities;
"I abuse myself"
I abuse my "self" when I subjugate my body under the will of another.
I abuse myself when I subjugate my feelings and thoughts under the feelings and thoughts of another.
I abuse my body, when I subjugate it under a harsh regime of restriction and self-punishment (diet, exercise, stress, over-busyness etc).

I ABUSE AND SUBJUGATE MY SELF
I ABUSE AND SUBJUGATE MY BODY..
on all sorts of levels and layers;
and in relation to my self (feelings,thoughts,emotions, beliefs) and my body,
and in relation to others with regards to myself (feelings,thoughts, beliefs), and with regards my body..

And - I abuse my "self" - my body, my thoughts,feelings and beliefs,
when I subjugate them under another,
and make them to be less than, anothers..

"I abuse myself when I subjugate my body under another "
(and that includes subjugating myself to anothers opinion about my body- ie, too fat, too thin too small etc..)

"I abuse myself when I subjugate my thoughts and feelings under anothers"

And also - somewhere in the midst of all this stuff , were these strong directive feelings/beliefs:
I have to subject myself to someone else
I have to subject myself under someone else (strong beliefs of my mother!)
I "have to" be abused (abuse, and punishment both)
I have to "abuse my self" by subjecting myself under and to someone else.

And some lesser directive feelings and forces;
"I have to be obedient"
"I have to do what others say"
"I have to submit myself to someone elses authority"
(lots of beliefs and strictures from my upbringing there- religious mantras in my household;
combined with abuse experiences)

[SueQ]

How are things going, Nola and C'Marie? Mini too, but I'm not sure she is coming back (says with a pouty look).

My grandfather passed away this morning. I didn't use it as an excuse to eat whatever I wanted, so that is one good thing I guess. I'm sad of course, but all of this spiritual work I have been doing is flowing into and part of this experience. At the risk of being off the charts here, I had a conversation with him this morning after he passed. He was a big fan of me being thinner and healthier and I on some level want to honor his passing with a continued effort to take care of my health. I made that low carb pizza crust from chicken and cheese and it is very, very yummy and real pizza crust like.

[nola baxter]

Hi Sue

Well I am tired and have been busy so will not write much right now
Had a pretty hard week last week overall- still absorbing all the shocks and ups and downs.

I am glad you are able make something good from your grandfathers passing.

I dreamt of my father quite vividly the morning of the day he died, and have no doubt that it was a real experience.

That pizza sounds yum!

And as for coming from a place of love rather than survival-
well I have seen a few things that pertain to that.
One of them relates to diet :
feeding my body fully and abundantly- not just in survival mode
(eating just enough to get by and ensure basic function).
ie, coming from a place of loving my body- not just "allowing" the minimum for its survival.

Another relates to living fully,
in all its aspects-
and seeing and believing in getting my needs and wants met;
again- coming from a place of believing in and loving myself,
not just a minimum of needs met to "get by"

Living in abundance- having a "sense of abundance"
not a sense of survival- and only just enough to survive and get by on.

Lol- a bit incomplete I know- but I am a bit braindead..

Good nite

[nola baxter]

There is just something about eating more food for me.

I know that most/all of you are on a diet system and that sticking to whatever stage of the diet you are at is the measure of success and of goodness.
I have done this also- and have faithfully stuck to a million diets.

But it just seems that letting go and eating freely frees up my soul-
I have no problem with it generally, and feel much much better physically and emotionally for it;
EXCEPT
I gain weight!
And its the gaining of weight that creates the emotional discomfort and conundrum for me.
And the fear and knowledge of gaining weight..

I know I have written this here before ,
but I just continue to write it until it is solved for me.

Do I give up on the idea of being lean and eating freely??
At this point I kind of have -
as I dont seem to have been able to manifest it as yet,
I havent found the key and am wondering if it is at all possible?!

Do I just accept a fatter weight (how??..lol- seems impossible for me)?

This is still my big essential dilemma and crisis which precipitated the start of this deeper internal work this year.

It doesnt feel right to diet, and it doesnt feel right to be fat!
But I seem to be stuck with one or the other!


I would still like answers..

And I dont want to walk away from all this without getting an answer!!

[SueQ]

That's a hard question, Nola. I hope you find the answer because I would like it too! but I'm sure it is pretty personal and specific to each person.

What I'm hoping is that either I come to a point of love and appreciation for the body that I have when I eat the way that satisfies me, in a healthy fashion. Or that I learn to be completely satisfied with eating the way that gives me a body I love and appreciate.

I think it is going to take time for me to adjust to eating a different way. I also think that dieting for as long as I have has created in me a sense of sacrifice, almost a desperation to avoid hunger, that still influences my ability to tell what my body really needs. I am willing to give it the full 2 year period of healthier eating for the occasional craving or mental hissy fit over what I cannot eat to subside. Of course I'm over half way there and I can already see things changing in that area. I have to give myself permission to test the boundaries and experiment a little bit even if it means a gain here and there, I always have the choice to make changes and get my weight back to where I want it to be. All of this is a big act of faith that my God and my body want me to have a healthy body and an eating and exercise lifestyle that I enjoy as well. I feel in many ways like a child learning what healthy eating and living is.

I really, really believe that it is time for me to stop strict dieting. It is messing with my head and creating a food/scale/weight obsession that I don't want. Other than that I don't know much. Lots of prayer and asking for direction to navigate my way.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by SueQ

That's a hard question, Nola. I hope you find the answer because I would like it too! but I'm sure it is pretty personal and specific to each person.

What I'm hoping is that either I come to a point of love and appreciation for the body that I have when I eat the way that satisfies me, in a healthy fashion. Or that I learn to be completely satisfied with eating the way that gives me a body I love and appreciate.

I think it is going to take time for me to adjust to eating a different way. I also think that dieting for as long as I have has created in me a sense of sacrifice, almost a desperation to avoid hunger, that still influences my ability to tell what my body really needs. I am willing to give it the full 2 year period of healthier eating for the occasional craving or mental hissy fit over what I cannot eat to subside. Of course I'm over half way there and I can already see things changing in that area. I have to give myself permission to test the boundaries and experiment a little bit even if it means a gain here and there, I always have the choice to make changes and get my weight back to where I want it to be. All of this is a big act of faith that my God and my body want me to have a healthy body and an eating and exercise lifestyle that I enjoy as well. I feel in many ways like a child learning what healthy eating and living is.

I really, really believe that it is time for me to stop strict dieting. It is messing with my head and creating a food/scale/weight obsession that I don't want. Other than that I don't know much. Lots of prayer and asking for direction to navigate my way.

Hi Sue

At a baseline level, I would say we are looking for the same thing-
a body we can live in and love and enjoy-
without living a lifestyle of hunger, sacrifice and deprivation.

I am still wrestling with it.
But I notice again- that when I do let go of the eating, it frees up something inside of me, and issues and answers surface more freely.
For me controlling of the diet acts as a suppressive mechanism-
it suppresses some of the pains and traumas and feelings of bad;
but it also suppresses some of my essential self,
and makes it harder to get in touch with who I really am.

I think the answers we are looking for would be specific to the person-
but I suspect they would have common themes at an underlying level!

I totally agree with you about stopping the dieting-
it can mess with your head in a big way,
and has deep physiological and psychological effects.

If you can maintain the loss you have already made without over-obssessing and over-restricting, you will already be way ahead of most people in this game.
A lot end up unwittingly trashing their metabolisms in the process, and have to exercise eternally and maintain very strict food and calorie control to keep their losses.

I have effectively dieted for most of 30 yrs- so I do know what I am talking about... lol
I have learnt smarter ways of dieting (calorie cycling/smaller calorie deficits); that havent left me in such a deep metabolic hole.
But still, at the end of the day it is a lifestyle of over-control, lack of freedom,
and in my case - still too much hunger and sub-functioning due to calorie restrictions.
And still- at the end of the day sooner or later my body has ALWAYS ended up fighting me back with undeserved/unwarranted weight gain.

And it is this last time that this happened that really threw me into this state of:
"I have to get answers that are not just about the physical body"-
because no diet has worked sustainably for me in the end,
and,
no matter how much will power and determination I had- I still couldnt control and force my body the way I wanted it to go!
Any success I have had in this has been limited and temporary.

Matt Stone - 180degreehealth, talks in his blogs about how the more in starvation you have been (diets), the less your body tolerates it, and the harder it fights back.
I can say absolutely, that this is my experience.
It is not about lacking discipline, being greedy, or out of control , or anything of a similar sort!
There is simply a very real physiological phenomena,
that when we restrict food and diet in one form or another,
the body will develop a very strong need and at times obssessive hunger for food,
much greater than ever before.

I summed up my struggle in two words this morning;
"hungry" or "fat"
Do I "think" it should be like this?! No I dont!
But because it is still my reality,
I would guess there are still levels at which I believe it-
and in "self-deprivation"? - which must be the essence I guess?

Either way- "fat" or "hungry" - some part of my self feels deprived or unhappy.

[nola baxter]

But if I can resolve it for myself- in whatever way that ends up being-
I will certainly be posting it here very fast!

And I would have to say- that of late I have been giving up in my heart, and just believing that I either have to accept fat or hungry,
and feeling very sad/grieving about it..
I feel like I have dealt with so much- how much more can there be?
and,
what does it take?

And then feeling sad about other things in my life- where I have done my best , seemingly only to be rewarded
with some crushing disappointment,
or of late - what I considered to be a massive betrayal...
The essence of the feeling would probably be something like
"feeling massively let down!"

Grieving and feeling massively let down?
There is something in it for sure,
but I am just so damn tired- I dont want to see or experience another damn single painful thing!
- without seeing some positive concrete results that is! ..

[nola baxter]

How is everyone?

Well, I am still standing on the divide here- holding control in one hand and letting go with the other..
working on issues of trust,
feelings of bad/guilt about eating how much you want and when you want (parental conditioning),
and reading Matt Stone's interesting blogs on his 180degreehealth site.

[SueQ]

I must be having control issues too, Nola, because I sure want to figure out how to fix this for you! Which is silly because I certainly don't have the answers. I'm back to logging all my food again for the duration of P3 anyway because I want to keep my fat and protein grams in balance. It seems to help me stabilize better. I am looking forward to not doing that and eating more freely, but still don't have a clear picture on what that will look like.

It's been a long week for me with grieving my grandfather mixed in there. We buried him on Friday. Lots of time with family members from out of town which was good. My heal your life and intuitive development classes have ended and I haven't decided how to fill that void, I think I want and need to. I have a women's retreat next weekend and then business travel the whole next week. Just lots of moving parts and things shifting for me so I'm trying to stay balanced. It isn't easy; I like routine.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by SueQ

I must be having control issues too, Nola, because I sure want to figure out how to fix this for you! Which is silly because I certainly don't have the answers. I'm back to logging all my food again for the duration of P3 anyway because I want to keep my fat and protein grams in balance. It seems to help me stabilize better. I am looking forward to not doing that and eating more freely, but still don't have a clear picture on what that will look like.

It's been a long week for me with grieving my grandfather mixed in there. We buried him on Friday. Lots of time with family members from out of town which was good. My heal your life and intuitive development classes have ended and I haven't decided how to fill that void, I think I want and need to. I have a women's retreat next weekend and then business travel the whole next week. Just lots of moving parts and things shifting for me so I'm trying to stay balanced. It isn't easy; I like routine.

Lol- well I wish you could fix it for me too! Its sure to be easier..

It sounds like you are looking for some more support and encouragement for your path-
I hope you find the right place for you to get this.

I am sorry for your grandfather .
Sometimes it can be good to let things move and shift without controlling it too much? (lol- says me..)

Things have started shifting a bit more for me,
something is happening at quite a subterranean level, not all visible, but I am starting to see flashes of what is happening.
Something like a schism within myself, a divide, and soul retrieval, lost bits of my soul - and putting the pieces back together.
Two images I have got over the past days have been ,
like having been dropped from a cliff, and all the pieces shattered and broken apart at the bottom,
and,
that old nursery rhyme;
Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall, humpty dumpty had a great fall,
and all the kings horse and all the kings men couldnt put humpty together again..
But just these images of broken and scattered pieces, and hard to find them all and put them back together again.

I went to some place deep inside, and it was like a wilderness of a forest, cold and snow with a little girl wandering around lost- looking for something , looking for something that was lost..
Then I got the understanding, of something held in trust, locked away because it was unsafe..part of myself locked away in the far reaches,
for safetys sake..

Understandings about the warring within myself, starting to see-
my self against my self,
creating the dichotomies in my life,
with relationships,
with food and body,
and with being pulled this way and that and not being sure which is the right decision,
and not knowing which part of me is the true part- the right part
not knowing which parts of me are my true feelings
(do I really want to be lean- or is this a societal construct?- is the true part of me actually happy to be well fed and fatter- or do I actually have to integrate the two and resolve the duality with some balance in the middle?).
When am I acting out of the true me and when am I acting out of the false construct? -
or the part of me that has been constructed as a defense against and in front of my real self.
I defend myself against myself, and from myself..

Okay- so I am just winging it here- not even trying to be fully coherent, because this stuff isnt yet-
its all in bits and pieces.
But I just thought I would see if anything started forming from the words lol..

[SueQ]

So I've decided I'm not going to visit this place very often for awhile. My obsession with dieting, tracking food and weighing myself has taken on unhealthy levels in my life. I need to stop thinking about it all the time and visiting here doesn't help. I'm grateful for this forum and it has been helpful to me in soo many ways. Nola, I feel like I'm going to leave you hanging! If you want to keep talking on email please send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you mine.

Wish me luck! I'm off the scale except once a week, and I'm not tracking my food or calories. It is scary as heck but I'm ready to see how the other half lives.

[nola baxter]

Hi Sue

Well you know, I think you are making a good decision.
I dont think it is a health-enhancing relationship with our bodies to be constantly constraining ourselves within a set of numbers or ratios-
and it can lead you to be out of touch with your true self and intuitive food/body sensing.

It can be pretty scary to let go of all the counting and calculating and trust- I would be the first to say so!
But I think it is also a place where a lot of growth can take place.

I do wish you luck!..and help on your way..

Dont worry about me, my process is very quiet at the moment.. and not very wordy..

[adelinesdream]

Hi,

I'm new on this thread. I am on day 3 of very low calorie part of HCG drops. I have been around this mountain for over a year now, having done 3-6 weeks on the low calorie part but totally struggling with the maintenance. I know it's emotional for me so I jumped on this thread. I have a fear of becoming this hanging bag of skin and at my age, just turned 54, that I will just look old and drawn. So I keep playing with 20 lbs up and down. I used to weigh close to 300 lbs, so I do have a good bit of hanging skin. Today I weigh 173.4 my lowest since 2008 was 155 and when I looked in the mirror I didn't like what I saw in my face. I felt much better in my clothes. Someone close to me, who didn't really understand the struggle I have had and the battle I've been in, was encouraging me to lose more. I knew I didn't want to because a bunch of the pounds are loose hanging skin which doesn't go away by dieting and I don't want to go thru surgery. My battle right now is getting this weight back off and not being afraid. Fear is huge for me in this. I found that every time I broke thru a weight level, fear was right under the surface keeping me stuck. I have dealt with fear spiritually through prayer. When I get off my food plan I fall back into the trap of carb and sugar addiction and put weight back on quicker and easier each time. I am afraid of going back where I've been I never want to go there again. It's my goal, dream, vision to find a way to live in this body and keep it as healthy and whole as I can and stabilize this weight.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

Hi,

I'm new on this thread. I am on day 3 of very low calorie part of HCG drops. I have been around this mountain for over a year now, having done 3-6 weeks on the low calorie part but totally struggling with the maintenance. I know it's emotional for me so I jumped on this thread. I have a fear of becoming this hanging bag of skin and at my age, just turned 54, that I will just look old and drawn. So I keep playing with 20 lbs up and down. I used to weigh close to 300 lbs, so I do have a good bit of hanging skin. Today I weigh 173.4 my lowest since 2008 was 155 and when I looked in the mirror I didn't like what I saw in my face. I felt much better in my clothes. Someone close to me, who didn't really understand the struggle I have had and the battle I've been in, was encouraging me to lose more. I knew I didn't want to because a bunch of the pounds are loose hanging skin which doesn't go away by dieting and I don't want to go thru surgery. My battle right now is getting this weight back off and not being afraid. Fear is huge for me in this. I found that every time I broke thru a weight level, fear was right under the surface keeping me stuck. I have dealt with fear spiritually through prayer. When I get off my food plan I fall back into the trap of carb and sugar addiction and put weight back on quicker and easier each time. I am afraid of going back where I've been I never want to go there again. It's my goal, dream, vision to find a way to live in this body and keep it as healthy and whole as I can and stabilize this weight.

Hi Adeline

My fears are triggered more by gaining weight, others here have mentioned that their fears are triggered by losing weight.
I have some fears around losing weight- but they are not the overwhelming avalanche that happens when I gain weight.

I hope you can get to the bottom of your fears- I can't say i have fully resolved mine yet,
and I am controlling my fear by controlling my intake (diet)..lol

It sounds like you have a dual fear-
some very strong fears triggered by weight loss,
and a fear of regaining weight and getting back to where you were!
So you are bouncing around in between the two.

You mention you put weight back on faster every time after falling off the wagon;
I have experienced this,
and it does create a kind of fear about the body spiralling out of control -
(at least thats the way I would describe it).
I think it is an unfortunate result of dieting that it creates an imbalance in the body's metabolism wherein it gains weight quicker and easier after every diet.
I am struggling with that aspect, and finding a longterm solution to it,
and to be able to maintain/lose
without having to eternally restrict food intake in a way that is uncomfortable and unsustainable..

No answers yet here..

[adelinesdream]

Nola,

Thanks for responding. It feels good to share with others and have a support team.
The company I get my drops from sells some other drops without hcg that suppress appetite, I'm gonna try those for my maintenance part, praying I will be able to stabilize and not go crazy when I get off this round.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by adelinesdream

Nola,

Thanks for responding. It feels good to share with others and have a support team.
The company I get my drops from sells some other drops without hcg that suppress appetite, I'm gonna try those for my maintenance part, praying I will be able to stabilize and not go crazy when I get off this round.

Well, see how the appetite suppressant goes then.

Going crazy at the end of the round sounds like a reaction to something though -
a true physiological hunger?
or a rebound emotional reaction against the strong restriction of a P2?
or a combo of both?

Maybe P2 is not the ideal thing for you anymore if it creates such a strong negative backlash at the end?
It may work for short term weight loss, but if that weight loss cant be successfully sustained or maintained it is of no good-
it will just throw your body into more back and forth swings.

As much as I like successfully losing weight and being lean,
I have come to realise over the years that any weight that is lost has to be lost in a sustainable way :
ie, can be kept off without over adherence to strict diet at the end of it,
and has to not put your body in such a starvation mode that it wants to eat like crazy at the end of it..

So no matter how good the diet seems at actually losing the pounds- it is what happens at the end of it that really determines whether it is a good, effective or useful diet or not!

Would you be better off with a middle path at this stage? More of a lifestyle plan- a maintenance diet for a while to let your body settle. Is your body sick of being pushed into weight loss?

I dont know of course, because it is not me.. but I am just putting it out there in case..

[adelinesdream]

Nola, to your point. I do think I became diet weary. I think my body needed some time to recover, I know there's emotional issues, fear of looking haggard and old and sagging and bagging which is already there cause of having kept so much weight on for so many years and my recent birth day of 54. I want to get back down to 155 or so and fit into my summer clothes. I'm having some medical tests done to see if there's something else going on. And I know once I reintroduce too many carbs or sugar into my diet, then I get out of control. Thanks so much for your input.