HCG and food/diet/body issues, working with the inner self.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by ellenalesa

I have to confess, I am feeling very uncomfortable lately. Reading these posts has made me start thinking about my relationship with food.

Cheryl just posted on another thread about being a closet eater, to which I replied that eating in secret is MUCH more satisfying that eating what I want in public. WHY? It's the same food...but sneaking it is more like a "F*** you" to whoever/whatever is troubling me.

Maybe because no one can judge me?

Also, I can then shovel it in as fast as I want, I don't have to mind my manners. Now THAT's embarrassing to admit!

I have used food to take care of myself for years. And when life is going well, I am able to lose/maintain EFFORTLESSLY. When I feel stressed, I use food.

I think I need to find better ways to comfort myself.

The first thing that leaps to mind is "just for you"

When you eat in private it is just for you , not for anybody else.
And you can be just "for you" and not anybody else.

Reading between the lines from your posts it sounds like you feel you have to be there a lot for other people;
taking on their burdens, feeding and nurturing them , looking after them,
earning their like and approval,
and not saying what you truly feel in their presence - not confronting them with your truth (not allowed to be or say who you truly are in the presence of others).

And in being "there" for so many other people, you are not actually "there" for yourself;
ie, you are not nurturing and looking after yourself,
not expressing who you are(confrontation),
not being who you are (doing things for the approval of others),
not feeding "yourself" - physically and emotionally

Do you feel you have to be there for others , but you are not allowed to be there for yourself?

Eating in private in one way of "being there for yourself" ;
"feeding yourself" = comfort and nurture for yourself
and not having to be "there " for others (ie, f*** you, I am having something that is mine and mine alone, and- I am going to give myself something!)

You said you thought it might be because "others might judge you"
Do you feel it is wrong to "feed" yourself?

What are they judging you for? eating, eating a lot, types of food, manners or ways of eating? these are all about you and your body- none of their business I would say! It is your body not theirs..

And, at an underlying level, your body is a part and expression of all of who you are...

Its about it being "you" and "yours", not "them" or "theirs".
"You" belongs to yourself , not to them!

[nola baxter]

It sounds like you are already onto it in terms of observing the clues within yourself Ellena;

comfort eating
others judging you? others being the "judge" over you (determining your worth and what you should eat)
using food to say f*** you to others (and looking after yourself..lol)
using food to medicate ( shut yourself and your true feelings down)
co-dependant issues (being there for others but not for yourself)

These are all interconnected issues I am sure..

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

Your commenting on how you are losing a lot in the lower body has stayed in my mind- maybe because it is something I want for myself.

Then today- I thought, I wonder if your losing a lot in the lower body has had something to do with your recent refeeding?
Maybe the refeeding somehow gave you (your body), some kind of permission
to lose on the lower body?

I am taking potshots here, wondering as to the secret key of it all.
Have you got any clues?

[minimonkey]

I don't know, Nola --- maybe it is the real hcg, maybe it is the refeeding (though I have done that before) -- maybe it is the EMDR?

I'm rather inclined to say it is the real hcg and a good load, since my upper body isn't getting scrawny right now and my face isn't gaunt, which is rare for me at this weight.

[SueQ]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Well -- it remains to be seen how well I will or won't stabilize

I'm almost afraid to ask, but why would you think you wouldn't stabilize? I worry about that sometimes too, but I did the first time and this time it is going very well so far. I think I may even stabilize under my last HCG weight, but I'm not going to put pressure on myself to do so. I've decided that believing, assuming I will stabilize and just need to find the right balance right now is important. I don't want to focus on the possibility/fear of not stabilizing. Maybe I'm over analyzing...probably am, I do that a lot. But the protocol says you will, if you follow it. So I'm claiming it for myself and you as well

[SueQ]

Originally Posted by ellenalesa

One of the things I am doing is learning how to speak my truth. In the past, I would never stand up for myself because I feared confrontation. I had so little self esteem that I needed approval, even if I didn't particularly like/respect/admire the person/people whose approval I sought.

I am starting to read books about communicating, and learning how not to be co-dependent.

I look forward to the day that I can eat in a way that works for my body and not have to keep dieting/bingeing/self loathing. I am in the process of creating that for myself now.

I just love everything about what you had to say here. Speaking your truth, not "eating your words", I do think it is all related. My favorite part is about creating that for yourself right now. You absolutely can do that!

[SueQ]

Nola, do you do HCG? or hHCG? I definitely lose the weight where I have the most abnormal fat, and that is my lower body, when I am on HCG as opposed to other dieting methods. It is one of my favorite parts! I am a smaller size now that I have ever been at this weight before. I do RX HCG and keep considering trying the hHCG but every time I do, I think of my sister who freaks out on the idea and keeps sending me helpful articles about how bad this is for you, and then I come here and Mini is talking about how she thinks the RX works better!

I didn't think I was losing so much in my lower body this round, and it took more time for the inches to come off. I actually think it started about 4-5 days after I started the contouring gel and had stopped taking the HCG. Maybe it is P3 reshaping?

[SueQ]

Ok one last thing! Mini, the weight is really coming off fast considering how little you have to lose! That is awesome, congrats!

[minimonkey]

Sue -- my fear around stabilizing comes from past experience -- I had a horrendous jump up when I attempted to go to p3 this last time (like 5 lbs almost overnight!) -- I honestly am not sure what that was all about, but I was gaining at the end of my rogue p2 on 1000 calories a day. I think the hhcg had stopped working, though, because I had done it for so long, and I was more or less just doing a low calorie diet at that point -- it's just a guess.

I do think the real hcg is working a lot better for me, but I also think I am largely to blame for any failure of the hhcg --- I rogued a lot, and used it for a long, long time. Many people do exceptionally well with it.

I am also working on not eating my words, but man is that a tough one. My partner and I really got into it today (general frustrations) -- and I demanded an apology from him, which I certainly deserved -- and it was like pulling teeth to get it. I finally did get a half-baked, conditional one.

I don't live in a household that is at all friendly to speaking my mind.

[minimonkey]

Sue -- I know! I'm delighted at the rate of loss, really - I'm about 6 lbs from my high goal, and only about 11 from my low-end goal. I'm not quite sure where I want to stop.

I'm pretty sure the extended round will get me there and with a bit of wiggle room to spare -- even if I have to weather some hunger for a bit -- and then the real work of maintenance begins.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I am also working on not eating my words, but man is that a tough one. My partner and I really got into it today (general frustrations) -- and I demanded an apology from him, which I certainly deserved -- and it was like pulling teeth to get it. I finally did get a half-baked, conditional one.

I don't live in a household that is at all friendly to speaking my mind.

Speak it anyway..

[minimonkey]

Thanks Nola, I really needed to hear that right now. I am still fuming.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by SueQ

Nola, do you do HCG? or hHCG? I definitely lose the weight where I have the most abnormal fat, and that is my lower body, when I am on HCG as opposed to other dieting methods. It is one of my favorite parts! I am a smaller size now that I have ever been at this weight before. I do RX HCG and keep considering trying the hHCG but every time I do, I think of my sister who freaks out on the idea and keeps sending me helpful articles about how bad this is for you, and then I come here and Mini is talking about how she thinks the RX works better!

I didn't think I was losing so much in my lower body this round, and it took more time for the inches to come off. I actually think it started about 4-5 days after I started the contouring gel and had stopped taking the HCG. Maybe it is P3 reshaping?

I did hhcg for 6 weeks.
I couldnt keep to the super low calories though- even the higher calorie version I did wiped me out!
So I gave up on the idea.

I didnt see any change of weight loss pattern in the time I was on the hhcg- everything was as normal - ie, fat still staying on the butt and saddlebags!

I wasnt fat as such to start with, just wanted to lean out a bit more and lose some of the fat from what I consider "abnormal" deposits; ie, saddlebags.

I will just have to keep working on the esoteric side of things and see if that yeilds the results I am looking for!

[ellenalesa]

Nola,

You hit it on the head. I often do show up for other people and wind up sacrificing myself.

It's time to stop... and it may feel uncomfortable as I start making changes.

I have read several books on codependency and recently acquired one on manipulation that I haven't read yet. I may sit down and read it today....

[SueQ]

Originally Posted by ellenalesa

Nola,

You hit it on the head. I often do show up for other people and wind up sacrificing myself.

It's time to stop... and it may feel uncomfortable as I start making changes.

I have read several books on codependency and recently acquired one on manipulation that I haven't read yet. I may sit down and read it today....

I think that it is already changing for you. This is one of my struggles too, and I started noticing that it kept me in resentment and sabotaging behaviors. The cutting of your nose to spite your face kind of thing...I'll show you by making myself suffer! Ha!

It started changing for me when I started to become aware of it, and the first few times that I had to speak my truth, it actually became more like I had to speak it, know what I mean? I was too uncomfortable not saying what needed to be said. And it was hard, and I tried to still be loving and fair, to everyone including myself. I deserve to be accommodated and respected too. So do you.

For the most part now, I sigh when it comes up and do the right thing for me, and I am not angry at other people and myself as often as I used to be.

All that to say that when I started to become aware of it, and chose to act on it just a little bit, it was already in the process of changing for me. I think that is where you are, too. It doesn't have to be hard, but it will feel different, and I think you will find that your emotions will be clearer and it will be easier to sort out what you really need and want. That other crap just starts to dissolve. Good for you for taking the time to care for yourself in this way. I'm cheering you on!!!!

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Thanks Nola, I really needed to hear that right now. I am still fuming.

Did you get any resolution in the situation Mini?
It sounds like you are carrying enough in your household without having to carry the anger too.

[nola baxter]

Hi Ellena and Sue (and Mini)

I have had huge constrictions around speaking up over the years, not only were abuse residues holding me silent but our whole household code was geared to shut people down!

We were not allowed to express angers and speak up for ourselves in any way.
We always had to be "good" and "nice":
and "good to others" and "nice to others" -
even if they were treating us like sh**!
And we had to "cover for anothers sins"(something from the bible);
ie, take the blame on ourselves, and not say it was someone else's fault- even if it was!

And as for being there for others;
well, my mother has a whole religion and a mantra around that!
She firmly believes and advocates that
"we are here to serve others" - and certainly not ourselves!
Even down to the small details- when we went out we were not allowed to ask for anything, we always had to wait until something was offered,
and we weren't allowed to "serve" ourselves (with food), we had to wait for someone to serve us first...
In short, we weren't allowed to put ourselves forward in anyway, or express that we had any needs ,
let alone any wants

She even had inhibitions about eating in public- felt it was rude to walk down the street eating an icecream because other people didnt have it! We weren't "sharing".

Ah- thats the other one - we always had to share! We definitely weren't allowed to have anything that was just for ourselves!
(I have 6 brothers and sisters..lol- that is a lot of sharing to have to do!)

And as for anger- well that didnt even get a look in!. My mother quite firmly never acknowledges her own anger;
and I have been surprised to find within myself angers I didnt know I was even feeling!
And I am talking about a few days ago here, not 10 or 20 years ago.
I can understand finding supressed childhood anger- that is a no-brainer
(it is very scary to express our anger to the adults around us, because they have all the power over us at that age, and the power to threaten our existence in a major way- physical and/or emotional);
but in the here and now?! I thought I was quite good at feeling my feelings .
But it seems-
that a part of me was taking the anger and locking it away before I even had a chance to see it or acknowledge it!

[nola baxter]

Well, I have been processing away like crazy as usual here.
I had a good day yesterday- one of the days where feel I am really getting somewhere (and not just drowning in a morass of nasty stuff),
and can feel new exciting freedoms of my soul!

I have been working on guilt- feeling all the guilt, afraid to feel all the guilt, feeling "fat" with guilt, or "heavy" with guilt.
There was a lot of guilt around abuse issues- as there always is..,
but also an item of guilt around pleasure and pain, with the two wrapped and entwined with each other.
Feeling guilty for the pleasure, needing the pain (self mortification and sacrifice).
Needing the pain, as a sacrifice for feeling the pleasure,
and needing the guilt-
as a payment for the pleasure,
and similar such connotations.

I saw another small anecdote around "core power".
No "core power" = bad digestion.
ie, no power in the core of the body..weak digestion..
and lacking strength in the bowels..lol

And another around hot chilli peppers, or cayenne-
a feeling of burning pain; "like a red hot poker", or "a red hot iron" ,
connected to the triggering of haemorroid flare-ups..
The burning hot chilli sensation reminded the body of the original trauma
( the red hot poker pain), and was triggering a similar/like pain through the haemorroids.
ie, sensitivity to red hot spices!

TMI for some - I am sorry:
but I just thought I would be honest,
and because it is interesting how literally the way our body translates our insides(feelings thoughts and experiences),
into a physical manifestation for us.

[nola baxter]

hmm- now to get onto those saddlebags..
What is my body literally translating for me there?

[SueQ]

The burning hot chilli sensation reminded the body of the original trauma
( the red hot poker pain), and was triggering a similar/like pain through the haemorroids.
ie, sensitivity to red hot spices!

TMI for some - I am sorry:
but I just thought I would be honest,
and because it is interesting how literally the way our body translates our insides(feelings thoughts and experiences),
into a physical manifestation for us.

I also wonder if the form of manifestation is tied to the feeling. Mine seem to manifest in "shameful", "embarassing", or "I can't tell people about this symptom" sort of way; like hemmorhoids, constipation, and even a very strange skin disorder of the private parts called Lichen Sclerosis. If you google it, be warned about the pictures. It is a white and red blotchy rash, loss of skin pigmentation sort of problem in personal parts of the body!

I think when the feeling is associated with shame, that has something to do with where or how it appears, in shameful ways.

Sort of a hijack there, Nola, but your thoughts got me thinking!

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by ellenalesa

Shelby, looking at your stats gives me hope! Do you have a journal?



One of the things I am doing is learning how to speak my truth. In the past, I would never stand up for myself because I feared confrontation. I had so little self esteem that I needed approval, even if I didn't particularly like/respect/admire the person/people whose approval I sought.

I am starting to read books about communicating, and learning how not to be co-dependent.

I look forward to the day that I can eat in a way that works for my body and not have to keep dieting/bingeing/self loathing. I am in the process of creating that for myself now.

Hi Ellenalesa. Sorry that I didn't respond to this until now. I knew I had seen it--I just couldn't remember which thread! Thanks for the compliment. I don't have a journal but I am happy to answer whatever questions you have, either here or an another thread or PM.

[shelbyla]

Hugs to all you guys. I have been really struggling the last few weeks. This P3 is kicking my butt. I am trying every dang trick I know of to stabilize but I keep climbing and climbing. I gave up yesterday and ordered some rx hcg. By the time it gets here, I'll be officially through P3 and P4, although I haven't added much in the way of carbs at all. I have been really encouraged by Mini's recent experience so I am hoping that I can get these pounds off AGAIN ( ) and stick in the low 140's. I have bounced back up almost to where I ended last round and this is just unacceptable!

Anyway, in addition to this stress--which I need like a hole in the head--I am starting a business with a guy that I am dating and I am having all sorts of doubts and insecurities around is he dating me for my money? would he still be dating me if we weren't going into business together? does he think I am attractive or is he just sleeping with me because he wants me to support him in this business? I usually date two kinds of guys--the ones who hurt me and the ones who never can. He's already of trouble because I've made this whole thing SOOOO easy for him. He's under my skin and he knows it. I need to get tough around our contract and I just can't seem to find my steel underwear. (Which frankly need a chastity lock where he is concerned!) He is pretty darn emotionally unavailable. He's already told me that he doesn't like PDAs, that he'll never live with someone ever again and that he'll never be married ever again. I've never seen his house. We've never spent the night together (after 5 months). I'm just shaking my own head at myself. Seriously. I don't know how I get myself into these situations. It's like a train wreck. You see it coming but you can't get out of the way...

[minimonkey]

Shelby! I am so sorry you are having such a bear of a time stabilizing I hope the rx stuff works for you -- and I am glad you got it ordered before the big ban happened.

I should have my next (and last) bottle of the rx Tuesday -- but I ordered a couple bottles of hhcg to have as backstock in the event that it really goes away forever, which is seeming a real possibility in the current political climate.

I am roguing somewhat this last week, but think I may end up going back to protocol -- weight is jumping around a little now, and I am not liking that. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Hugs to all you guys. I have been really struggling the last few weeks. This P3 is kicking my butt. I am trying every dang trick I know of to stabilize but I keep climbing and climbing. I gave up yesterday and ordered some rx hcg. By the time it gets here, I'll be officially through P3 and P4, although I haven't added much in the way of carbs at all. I have been really encouraged by Mini's recent experience so I am hoping that I can get these pounds off AGAIN ( ) and stick in the low 140's. I have bounced back up almost to where I ended last round and this is just unacceptable!

Anyway, in addition to this stress--which I need like a hole in the head--I am starting a business with a guy that I am dating and I am having all sorts of doubts and insecurities around is he dating me for my money? would he still be dating me if we weren't going into business together? does he think I am attractive or is he just sleeping with me because he wants me to support him in this business? I usually date two kinds of guys--the ones who hurt me and the ones who never can. He's already of trouble because I've made this whole thing SOOOO easy for him. He's under my skin and he knows it. I need to get tough around our contract and I just can't seem to find my steel underwear. (Which frankly need a chastity lock where he is concerned!) He is pretty darn emotionally unavailable. He's already told me that he doesn't like PDAs, that he'll never live with someone ever again and that he'll never be married ever again. I've never seen his house. We've never spent the night together (after 5 months). I'm just shaking my own head at myself. Seriously. I don't know how I get myself into these situations. It's like a train wreck. You see it coming but you can't get out of the way...

Ah Shelby- to be perfectly frank, that sounds like a very bad situation with that guy, and you are letting yourself be walked all over;
and its sounds like he is not even returning you anything back- nor ever will.
You are giving him everything and he is giving you nothing, not even any relationship security. It sounds like a very very bad deal for you.

I suspect it probably has something to do with your inability to stabilize weight wise too.. these things are always connected in our lives.

I just think you would be best to get the hell out of that situation.
-because you could be potentially used to the max..
Have you got anyone to help and support you?

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by SueQ

I also wonder if the form of manifestation is tied to the feeling. Mine seem to manifest in "shameful", "embarassing", or "I can't tell people about this symptom" sort of way; like hemmorhoids, constipation, and even a very strange skin disorder of the private parts called Lichen Sclerosis. If you google it, be warned about the pictures. It is a white and red blotchy rash, loss of skin pigmentation sort of problem in personal parts of the body!

I think when the feeling is associated with shame, that has something to do with where or how it appears, in shameful ways.

Sort of a hijack there, Nola, but your thoughts got me thinking!

Hi Sue

No hijack at all!
And I would totally concur and agree with all your thoughts-
the manifestation being tied to the feeling..

You feel you are "embarrassing", and "shameful", so you manifest something
"embarrassing", and "shameful".
It is exact.

I think one of my friends had the lichen sclerosis.

Shame is the feeling of something needing to be covered and hidden,
too disgusting to be seen, and so on..
Some feelings that were coming up for me yesterday were the feelings of being
"like an untouchable"
and
"like a leper" ;
both very "shameful" states of hiddeness,
and of not being fit for "normal" society.

Your thoughts are getting me thinking me more too!.

[minimonkey]

Well, I am trying to work on getting my own needs met a little bit more myself --being a bit more selfish all around, and it is turning me into a big pile of guilt.

I'm so used to putting everyone else's needs before my own, I don't really know how to stop doing that.

Why do we do this?

Shelby -- I agree with Nola -- that sounds like a pretty horrid situation with the guy -- I hope it doesn't end in disaster.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Well, I am trying to work on getting my own needs met a little bit more myself --being a bit more selfish all around, and it is turning me into a big pile of guilt.

I'm so used to putting everyone else's needs before my own, I don't really know how to stop doing that.

Why do we do this?

Shelby -- I agree with Nola -- that sounds like a pretty horrid situation with the guy -- I hope it doesn't end in disaster.

Ha, well I started doing some work this morning on saddlebags this morning, and what came up was this;
"My wants and needs (and desires), are locked away in my saddlebags"

I am still finishing it off- I actually started to write about it this avo- but then had to stop as I could not get it down coherently, and I still cant.

But the gist of it so far is that my wants and needs were not allowed to be heard or acknowledged - they were suppressed, frowned on , shut down, ignored, punished, etc.
I internalized the messages of my childhood raising ,
and believed that my needs were not important, were bad and should not be heard, or acknowledged.
I shut myself down and away- I locked these feelings into my body (saddlebags).

I became as a cipher- there for others, but not allowed to be there for myself;
not as a whole person- eviscerated..
only allowed to be there as a "good" girl;
one who made no demands and did not put forward her person in any way,
and who did not express her own "needs".

There is a whole lot more, I just havent got it all fully as yet to be able to put it into words.

But this is me-- this stuff runs very deep.. its entangled with abuse issues too.

[minimonkey]

That actually sounds a lot like me, too, Nola -- on all fronts. Does that mean all my wants and needs and desires are going to need filling if I unbury them? That is a scary thought!

[SueQ]

That actually sounds a lot like me, too, Nola -- on all fronts. Does that mean all my wants and needs and desires are going to need filling if I unbury them? That is a scary thought!

Insightful question! I do think my wants and needs need to be fulfilled whether I sublimate them to putting other's needs first, and that is where the self-sabotaging and "stuffing" behaviors originate. Once I unearth my own needs and desires, I have to fill that void with positive, self-care type behaviors. Otherwise I start looking for other ways to fill those voids - I typically catch myself creating fears around problems that don't really exist, or obsessing on something new, or finding another broken person to "fix".

When I focus on expressing my creative needs and take the time to do things that bring me joy, that fills those voids and I am more balanced, without the need to overeat or worry all the time.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

That actually sounds a lot like me, too, Nola -- on all fronts. Does that mean all my wants and needs and desires are going to need filling if I unbury them? That is a scary thought!

In short Mini- I would say yes!

It has the potential to put the cat among the pigeons in relationships too when you start making "demands" or "requirements" in a relationship where you never have before.
I think thats one of the things that happened in my last phone call with my man-
He got a shock!
Suddenly this nice girl who made it clear she didn't "need" anything,
and had never "asked" anything of him and had always handed herself over on a plate with no "demands", or "requirements"
was suddenly "demanding" something from him, and talking about what she "wanted" in the relationship.


I realise too that this is an arena of battle with my son - when he starts asking for things- and making his needs felt-
I feel angry, and "demanded" of, and threatened,
and want to tell him to shut up.
In short - I am repeating the patterns of my mother- so I am actually very glad this is coming up, because I dont want him to end up feeling like I did!
I want to make changes and now I am starting to see the path to doing so.

An underlying question is ;
Why is expressing (or even accepting and acknowledging), our needs and wants so scary?
(and the thought of "needing to get them filled or fulfilled?")

And in my case, why do I feel it is "demanding" and "threatening", and needs to be "shut down", when my son starts expressing it!
And, extrapolating from that ;
why do when I start feeling my own needs and wants do I find them scary and threatening and want to shut them down?

What is the underlying belief system?
my needs and wants are bad?
they are a threat?
why do they threaten someone else? - because they feel they "cant" or "shouldnt" be fulfilled?
they "demand" something from someone else, and I am not allowed to "demand", or require" anything;
and the other person may not want or be able to give it?

I am not allowed to have needs and wants?!
My needs and wants are "bad"?!

I think there are underlying agendas and beliefs holding the whole structure in place- and thats the bit i am still unearthing