HCG Rouges and Alternatives- week of 1/9

[CherylB]

Keep on truckin', Violet! My first round was ginormous and it was easy compared to all the rounds I attempted afterward. Being protocol, what do you eat and drink? I was always a rogue but did the Omaha Weight Loss plan.

[Violet_Dream]

Originally Posted by CherylB

Keep on truckin', Violet! My first round was ginormous and it was easy compared to all the rounds I attempted afterward. Being protocol, what do you eat and drink? I was always a rogue but did the Omaha Weight Loss plan.

Hi Cheryl! LOVE your avatar. My menu throughout my previous two rounds and my current round have pretty much stayed the same (to keep things simple). My husband, bless his heart - does all the cooking in our household and always has. Here's a very typical menu for me:

Breakast: 1-2 cups black coffee, one orange and 2 melbas (I put them in a cup and soak them in apple cider vinegar - then eat them with a spoon.)

Lunch: Whole tomato with either crabmeat, shrimp or chicken and apple cider vinegar

Snack: one orange

Dinner: two cups raw spinach w/ apple cider vinegar and either a hamburger patty, shrimp, crab or chicken. Lately, I've been having a hamburger patty for dinner every night and really enjoy them.

For some reason, my losses are much better when I stick with oranges vs. apples and sometimes I have the P2 chili for lunch, but for the most part - I stick with a raw tomato and protein. The tomato is always with lunch and the spinach is always dinner - I have not switched the two because this is what works for me.

Water (I have cut back), cup of green tea and one cup of herbal tea at night. I've lost very well this way and have very minimal hunger. When I do get hungry, it means it's time to eat. The most rogue I've gone is using one packet of Splenda in my herbal tea and some creamer in my cofffee (powdered kind). The losses always continue, but I like sticking to protocol. Today, I bought some Stevia and I've learned that I can't use half and half anymore because I use way too much. HCG has completely changed my life, attitude towards food and I feel amazing!

[minimonkey]

Violet -- you are seriously the spokesperson for protocol (and Shelby, and a few others, too) -- makes me almost want to give it another try! I was feeling pretty horrid by the end of my first (very near protocol) round, though.

Whooooohoooo for you doing SO incredibly well!!!

If I end up doing a p3 interrupt and then another "round" after that, I think I will try protocol. But for now, I'm keeping on trucking the way I am going. This fat is clearly breaking up a lot, and I suspect I will hit a big losing streak very soon.

I hope so. I'm feeling quite good today -- minimal soreness from the workout, lots of energy, so no complaints here. And I know my body -- when the stall does break, I will probably drop 5 lbs within a week or so -- that is how it tends to go.

[minimonkey]

Star -- thanks for calling us shorites adorable

To be honest, I love being tiny -- except where it comes to reaching high up items, and finding pants that fit (I hem pretty much everything) -- and battling the lbs. But all things considered, I like my height (or lack thereof!)

[star a.d.]

mini, I always wanted to be 5'7" as a kid, and now wish I were around 5'2". sigh! I'm glad I can reach everything, but that's not a biggie, I mean what else are stepladders and the like for?

[Violet_Dream]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Violet -- you are seriously the spokesperson for protocol (and Shelby, and a few others, too) -- makes me almost want to give it another try! I was feeling pretty horrid by the end of my first (very near protocol) round, though.

Thanks mini and I'm sorry being on protocol made you feel bad. Honestly, if I felt the least little bit "off" - I would've gone more rogue. Even in the beginning, I actually felt great and still do. One of these days, I'll finish reading P&I.

Did you feel weak, fatigued or hungry on protocol? My husband was talking about 500 calories last night and can't get over how well I've done and he can see I've felt great because if I didn't - he'd know about it and I would've "tweaked" the plan until it fit. I asked him it he was considering it because there's plenty of hhcg here and he said he wasn't. He's 6'0' and seems to be holding steady at 243 even though he is overweight.3

It just dawned on me that I need to go eat my second and last orange of the day so off I go.....

[errihu]

I'm absolutely starving, and I wonder if it's because I didn't really get a chance to absorb my food.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by errihu

I'm absolutely starving, and I wonder if it's because I didn't really get a chance to absorb my food.

Probably so. A nice warm cup of broth might be helpful to your innards...feel better soon.

I also had to tweak protocol....no fruit melba + extra protein fat. For me, < 60 or 70 grams of protein leaves me weak and miserable after awhile. So I get more and do fine. 500 calories a day is hard for me, but 600 and I'm rarely hungry. It's not much difference but those are my tweaks...I think there's plenty of us that just don't fit the cookie cutter (ok, that don't want to fit the cookie cutter!).

Violet Just so impressed with your progress! You are almost there!!!

[minimonkey]

Violet

I did fine for the first four weeks or so of the protocol, but the last two I was very fatigued, weak, and started being very obsessive about food and weight. I have a reasonably active daily life, and I think it took a toll with the very low calories and no fat to speak of.

I also think I underate, even for protocol. There were days I definitely didn't make the 500 calories even.

I also had the detox reaction from he!! the first time -- I broke out in sores all over my scalp -- my face was an acne ridden mess of cysts... it was pretty horrid. I've had some acne since then, but nothing nearly so dramatic.

I've spent this whole year actively healing my gut and getting rid of a longstanding candida infection, and I feel a million times better as a result.

This time around I am feeling pretty good -- today, in fact, I feel terrific.

I'm coming in somewhere in the 700-800 calorie range today -- lowish fat -- so I consider that an on-plan day.

I thought I'd be hating the lower fat, but really it isn't bad. I have my moments, but in general, it isn't a problem. I think my body runs a lot more efficiently now on lower calories... for some, that might be a huge drawback, but I'm kinda digging it. I like not having to eat a lot -- it's very freeing.

We'll see what the scale says tomorrow.

I suspect that some time in the next couple of weeks I am going to see series of steady losses, where the pounds just sort of fall off all at once. I can see the changes happening in my body that are leading up to that -- so I am just keeping on keeping on.

Heck, I've been doing this forever -- what's a few more weeks? I definitely don't want to quit while I am in this weird, flabby, awkward stage... so I want to keep going until that gets better. I don't have far to go until the muscle really emerges -- that will help tremendously with the flab problem.

[minimonkey]

I got some potentially very good news, but overwhelming too ---

As some of you know, I am in my last semester of a dual degree graduate program ... that means finishing two thesis projects, and a huge exhibition of my art at the end of the year. In short, a hectic time for anyone!

Plus, I had been offered my old job back on a part time basis -- teaching one large class (the equivalent of teaching two smaller ones, and equivalent pay) -- I accepted that, so I am looking at a very busy few months.

Well, today I got word that there is some extra funding in the department, and it looks like I am being offered an additional course this semester! That would really be wonderful, in that the money would help out a ton (my unemployment is running out, and my sweetie is going to be unemployed most likely this coming semester) -- but wow, will that ever be one hectic, hard semester!

There's also a chance that my roommate might be offered a class too -- she got her MA last year, and is interested in teaching. She's been my TA forever, and is more than qualified to teach -- and the department seems really interested in that! That would be fabulous if it happens... and if it does, I can be HER TA for once. How cute would that be? I met her when she was an undergraduate student in the first class I ever taught (in 2006) .... we've come a long way!

[bkm]

I am getting somewhat encouraged - the ugly dimply fat (?) on my thighs might go away in time??? I had been afraid that it was an age-related problem - but if several of you have it and it eventually dissipates, maybe mine will too? I sure hope so!

I don't do calisthenic-type exercises (except crunches for my belly - and they haven't worked yet) - but I am fairly active - I walk a minimum of 10,000 steps each day (and often go way over that); kayak; swim; bike; yard work; etc. ... not exercising deliberately but still a lot more activity than just sitting around ...

I've been maintaining between 136 and 138 - fairly happy with that - but I still have to very carefully monitor what I eat. I should be in P4 now, it just might never happen with me. I plan to eventually return to regular low-carb eating, but maybe I'll also have to watch how much I eat?

Still debating when to start another round - maybe in a week or so ...

[bkm]

Some questions ...

I've been reading on this thread about eating disorders. I understand that when certain behaviors control you, then they are destructive. And taking weight loss/gain too far can be dangerous. But ...

1. Why is vomiting treated as such a terrible thing? My dentist was telling me horror-stories of young patients who had totally destroyed their enamel by repeated vomiting - yet when I was pregnant with my 4th child I really had problems with food/nausea/etc. - and nothing much happened to my health (and fortunately not to her health either). So why the hue and outcry? I must have thrown up 20 or more times each day for most of the 9 months (yet still gained weight???).
2. The use of laxatives is always deemed negative - yet a naturopath finally told me that I was going to have to use them, regularly, that my system just wasn't working right - and I have done so for many many years with no ill effect - yet when I ask an MD they get really excited and want to do a bunch of invasive tests, yet never have any answer ... and never really tell what the (careful) use of them can do to you.

[minimonkey]

Bonnie -- you sound quite active to me! Exercise certainly doesn't have to happen in a gym... in fact, often the best exercise is doing what you love to do!

I think some of us will always need to be mindful of portions in addition to the types of food we eat... You're doing great with maintenance so far

Paula seems to have had a lot of success raising her metabolic rate using JUDDD... that might be something to check out.

I don't plan to do a p4, really -- I prefer low carb eating in general. I do hope that I can have the occasional indulgence without it being a disaster, and I hope I can maintain eating some fruit carbs, because I love them ... but I will keep carbs as low as I need to in order to maintain. I will also count calories if that is what it takes for successful maintenance.

I suspect I will always need to watch what I eat if I want to stay super lean. I've accepted that, and as long as I feel good, and I don't become obsessive and cranky, it's fine by me. I hope my metabolism picks up somewhat in time, but if it doesn't, I can live on a low calorie diet, as long as I am not hungry all the time. At the moment, low calories are satisfying me just fine.

I don't have much attachment to food anymore ... this last few months of dieting have changed the way I view food a great deal. I eat to fuel myself, and I enjoy it well enough when I do -- but I find it freeing to need less to sustain myself. I've never been a foodie anyhow -- but this is markedly different, in that I really feel like I could totally take it or leave it, unless I am physically hungry. I don't really feel tempted to eat, even when something delicious is staring me in the face ... and barring the occasional TOM craving, I don't really crave or miss things much at all.

I hope that continues into p3 and beyond.

[Gremom]

Bonnie-sounds like you have a lot of fun!! And you are more than active! I need to get a pedemeter and track my steps. I have 3 kids! I have to have a lot steps, right?!?

I can't really answer your questions. I too threw up a lot with DD#1, but I believe that is different. I am sure that someone will be able to answer your questions.

Mini-looks like you will be quite the busy lady! Glad to hear your good news! Hope you can juggle it all and stay sane. I know that when I have a lot on my plate, I can go quickly! But you are one tough chick and I am sure you will conquer all your goals!

errihu-hope you feel better soon. That just stinks!

Violet-all I can say is

[Gremom]

Do you all think I need to wait for TOM to be gone to start a new round? Want to get my weight loss back going. Am tired of maintaining. Although it is great to be in my window and I am not really behaving. What do you all think? I almost want to start tomorrow. TOM isn't in full swing. It seriously takes a good 3 days to get giong.

Anyway, hope you all have a GREAT night!

[Nicole T]

Originally Posted by Gremom

Do you all think I need to wait for TOM to be gone to start a new round? Want to get my weight loss back going. Am tired of maintaining. Although it is great to be in my window and I am not really behaving. What do you all think? I almost want to start tomorrow. TOM isn't in full swing. It seriously takes a good 3 days to get giong.

Anyway, hope you all have a GREAT night!

I don't know about you but I get my worst PMS symptoms (bloating, weight gain, moodiness) a week BEFORE I get my period. I wouldn't hesitate to start a round once TOM got here...but that's just me

[C'Marie]

Bonnie, if you've ever seen a true bulimic individual's teeth, it's not pretty. (I used to work for a dentist and one of my daughter's college roommates had that issue as well). Even 9 months of throwing up with pregnancy is not the same.

Here's a tidbit:

Self-induced vomiting can result in oral complications. Repeated exposure to acidic gastric contents can erode tooth enamel, increase dental cavities, and create a sensitivity to hot or cold food. Swelling and soreness in the salivary glands (such as the parotid glands in the cheeks) from repeated vomiting can also be a concern.

The esophagus and the colon are the areas most affected by bulimic behaviors. Repeated vomiting can result in ulcers, ruptures, or strictures of the esophagus. Acid that backs up from the stomach (reflux) can also become a problem.

As with anorexia nervosa and other eating disorders, irregular menstrual periods or amenorrhea (the absence of menstrual periods) may result from malnutrition or weight fluctuations associated with bulimia.

I used to be plagued with this and also anorexia at times. I didn't do it as often as some so I didn't end up with alot of longer-term problems, thank Goodness.

Abuse (how you define it, I don't know) of laxatives also have issues. Eventually your own body systems decide to not do what they are designed to do and give up because you're forcing the issue with laxatives, and then you HAVE to have them to even go at all. I would be trying everything natural I could before that point. Magnesium helps a lot of us.

[minimonkey]

Thanks, C'Marie, for answering that! (and for your self disclosure, too. We've had a lot of us talking about ED histories here recently, myself included.) I was never bulimic, but I was anorexic for about two and half years, in high school

I had typed a long response to Bonnie's question, then lost my internet connection.

The body sort of compensates, I think, when it actually needs to vomit -- whereas forced vomiting seems to cause a lot more problems. It is also often coupled with hugely caloric binges. All kinds of digestive complications can occur from this -- the stomach can refuse to empty itself into the bowel, or can start rejecting food all the time -- the entire system becomes unable to function normally after a while.

Regular use of laxatives for constipation may indeed cause problems... but it isn't the same thing as laxative abuse, where someone takes huge doses of laxatives to try to compensate for eating (or in some cases, takes them without eating at all) Serious bulimics often take many, many laxatives at a time, causing electrolyte imbalances, bowel dysfunction, and even organ failure.

These behaviors can become addictions in themselves, and can be very difficult to stop -- people with eating disorders sometimes do this for years on end. Ultimately, it does damage or even destroy the body.

[minimonkey]

Thanks, Gremom -- I hope I can handle it, too! I tend to be a type A over-achiever, and thrive when my back is pushed against the wall -- but I also suspect I may have a couple of major stress melt downs along the way!

Thankfully, these are both classes I have taught before, and that I enjoy teaching, so they aren't a lot of prep. work. I will, however, be very tired and over-scheduled for a few months running. I hope I can keep up my workouts though -- they help a lot with stress management.

One way or another, I will get through it -- and it is only a short time to keep up such an intense schedule. Then, I will be out in the real world... and hopefully I can keep my teaching job, at least in some capacity. That would be a dream come true, since I love my job. I hope to add some art teaching to the mix once I get the art degrees finished.

[minimonkey]

Gremom -- about TOM - the one thing I would caution against is stopping a round during TOM. I did that, and my period went on for a full three weeks, until I resumed taking the pellets again! Now, I am in perimenopause, and so it may be unrelated to the hhcg... but I have read a couple of other accounts of the same thing happening to others. I've done hhcg during my period, and never had a problem with it.

[CherylB]

I see there is a lot of stuff to read and comment on here tonight but baby already took her beddy-bye meds and they are starting to kick in. I will read all and comment tomorrow! Love you all much and hope all is going well tonight. Hugs to those who need them. Goodnight.

[minimonkey]

Nighty night, Cheryl! Hope you sleep well!

I am thinking that unless this stall really breaks tomorrow or the next day, I will do an all protein day, and then do the fat fast again ... that has worked so well for me in the past, as long as I don't over-use it, in which case my body stops responding to it.

So, I think that's the plan -- lower fat for a couple more days, and if that works I will continue it... if not, it's protein, then the fat fast.

I find I have to shake things up fairly often if I don't want to stall out. That probably bodes really well for maintenance, but not so much for budging the last of this stubborn fat.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I don't have much attachment to food anymore ... this last few months of dieting have changed the way I view food a great deal. I eat to fuel myself, and I enjoy it well enough when I do -- but I find it freeing to need less to sustain myself. I've never been a foodie anyhow -- but this is markedly different, in that I really feel like I could totally take it or leave it, unless I am physically hungry. I don't really feel tempted to eat, even when something delicious is staring me in the face ... and barring the occasional TOM craving, I don't really crave or miss things much at all.

This is interesting- I cant say I am there yet.

I enjoy eating, and sometimes use it to fill other gaps!

I went blueberry picking with my friend and our children today, and while we were all tucking into the blueberries while we were picking I said to her,
I love the experience of eating-
and I think the answer to overeating is to eat very consciously ,
and to fully and totally enter into the experience of eating! .. and presumably enjoy it..

She said- I know, my friend and I back in the States (she is American), used to have ******ic food fests..

But seriously - I have been making an attempt to eat more consciously lately (not eating while computering or reading as I so often do),
and to focus on the food, what I am eating, why I am eating, the point of having had enough, etc. etc.

I find it is helpful and interesting, and is starting to change my relationship to food to becoming more aware and mindful.
I see more of why I am eating,
ie, I am truly hungry,
or- I just want to have a pleasurable experience,
or, I am feeling lonely and want to fill the gap with something..

[nola baxter]

lol- I see one of the words I wrote in the previous post has been automatically censored! lol
I didnt realize it would need to be!

[nola baxter]

And just to say, I appreciate everyones honesty and sharing their food and diet experiences, struggles etc.
As someone who has struggled a lot in that area too over my life, and in my past have been on the edge of bulumia and anorexia- I can understand.

I was thinking the other day- when you have dieted most of your life , I dont know if it is possible to have a normal relationship to food;
where you eat when you are hungry , stop when you are not, and dont think about it all the time, or what you weigh , or what you look like!
A lifetime of counting and censoring , weighing and measuring, etc, etc, leaves a heavy mark.


Nola

[minimonkey]

Nola --

Ok, now I am dying to know what your censored word was, lol! Strange things get censored on here sometimes... I don't know if it still censors the word cocktail, but we had to type c0cktail for the longest time...lol.

[minimonkey]

Guess that one doesn't get the censor anymore... that's good.

Anyhow, and more importantly, I totally agree about the relationship with food. I don't know what a truly "normal" relationship is to food, really. I've gone through periods of my life where I was a lot more concerned with other things, and not really worried about what I ate or weighed all too much, but I can't say I was ever really comfortable in my body, even then.

As it stands now, I've pretty much accepted that I will likely be eating fairly small amounts of food to sustain myself and that I am not particularly bothered by that. Once I manage to settle at a weight where I declare goal, I'll need to be very conscious for the first few months of maintenance, and figure out what works... and then I hope it'll become somewhat second nature to me to just continue to eat at that maintenance level.

I suspect I will always weigh regularly and count calories, at least roughly -- I've worked way too hard to lose this weight to risk not staying at goal. It may get easier after I've maintained for a few months, but I am not really sure if it will. I don't want to assume it will -- but honestly, I'm not hating living the way I am living now... so I do see it as sustainable.

I'm still not quite sure what number will end up being "goal" for me... mainly, I really want this odd little apron of loose fat gone from my abs... and although there is definitely some loose skin there, it is filled with a strange little layer of thin fat that is making it quite obnoxiously jiggly. That, I am determined to lose. It can't be more than a pound or two of fat, all told (I can squish it all up into one hand) -- but I don't know how much else will have to be lost to get that part to leave.

My thighs still have some pretty jiggly loose junk on them too -- with some nice, defined muscle underneath ... so that's a pretty good indicator that some more needs to go. I've declared an absolute stop point of 95 pounds for maintenance (meaning 93 for my ldw) -- if that doesn't get rid of the rest of the fat, it'll have to happen in the gym and be replaced by muscle as I go. I refuse to weigh less than 95 lbs for maintenance -- but it is beginning to look like that's about the goal I need to aim for.

Darn, I am a tiny little thing. I maintained really well at 95 for quite a while in high school, and I was healthy doing it (and quite muscular at the time, too) ... so I guess that is a pretty reasonable goal.

[minimonkey]

Incidentally, according to the old HAMWI formula, I should weigh 90 lbs... 100 lbs for the 5 feet, minus ten percent for frame size. I suspect he wasn't accounting for muscle, however .... so ninety five is a pretty good starting point, and I can allow for true muscle gain as it happens.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Nola --

Ok, now I am dying to know what your censored word was, lol! Strange things get censored on here sometimes... I don't know if it still censors the word cocktail, but we had to type c0cktail for the longest time...lol.

lol, well here is the censored word-
I am going to split it up to see if it will get through

o -r -g - as - m -i - c

as in
"o- r- g- as- m- i- c food fest"

[minimonkey]

Wow... that was censored? Seriously? LOLOL. Too funny!