Hcg Rogues and Alternatives, week of 10/7

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

I was up 0.4 (UGH) this morning for no apparent reason... boo! Hopefully it will be gone with extra tomorrow!!

Sorry you were up this morning too minimo... I slept for crap, maybe that was part of it too....

Anytime you sleep badly it will affect your weight loss It really sucks. Yesterday I got up around 8:00 am and was down 2.5 pounds. I was still a little tired so I laid back down for about 1 hour, went to the bathroom and dropped another .5 ounces. I could not believe it.

Today I had an appointment so, my loss was a little less. I think eight hours of real rest yields the best results.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Oops! I wonder if I can edit that... I think the mods have to do it.... anyone know how to fix a thread title? I should never do anything permanent before 7 in the morning...ever!

I will not be derailed by this silly gain.... I will not.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by MaryMouse49

Hello everyone I need some advice, I have been well p2/p2 since may only down 20 pounds total, not *****ing as I went on vacation, then had company, ok so now no excuses, I just cannot do the strict protocol anymore. I end up adding protein or veggies and feeling guilty, I would like to up it, but not sure how much, I would like to add popcorn instead of the grissini, skip a fruit, or? I guess sorta like the owl plan. I have not worked out as of yet, I am to concerned that if I start I will have to jog daily to keep my weight maintained. I need to lose 27 more pounds, any suggestions, I have the intermountain drops. Thanks Mary

I have been on the OWL plan for three days and it works well for me. I do not do carbs however I do mix my vegetables, eat a small amount of pecans, and have extra protein. I like the variety and the fact I can eat 700 calories. I think I go a little over sometimes but it has not hurt me yet. Let's see how it goes

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by paulabob

I have no solutions, but sending you some virtual hugs.

The plan really is HARD, and gets harder as the weeks go by. My first round was 35 days, and after that, I said never again, and stuck to short rounds. And of course, now I only go one day at a time, then Up day on the JUDDD plan right now. Committing is hard... Usually by the third week of protocol I'm pretty sure I was partly insane...couldn't type right, short tempered, a real lot of fun for my family to live with.

[Ashes20]

New week and back on plan tomorrow. Wasn't too terribly bad over the weekend but kind of loaded up today in anticipation of dropping back down to 800 calories starting tomorrow and restarting my hhcg. I know calorie cycling works well for me so I've kind of looked at these few days more as cycling rather than "cheating."

Big party tonight which will undoubtedly be catered with amazing food and drink - I'll go out with a bang then get back in the saddle tomorrow!

[minimonkey]

Wow -- a lot of us got hit with gains this morning

So much for 500 calories today -- I am coming in at about 1200. I did get in about 3 miles of walking though -- and about a mile and a half of it was carrying groceries, so that's at least a little exercise.

Tomorrow I am on the run all day, so it will be easy not to eat much. I may do a fat fast tomorrow -- that's easy on days when I am on the run -- one meal, and nothing more to worry about. I also may opt for a 500 calorie day -- that'll probably mean toughing out some hunger, but that is ok.

I ate hot sauce today (OMG, really scorching hot! habanero sauce -- so good!!) but that has sodium, which often doesn't make the scale like me much.

I'm frustrated with all this -- and I think I may stay off the scale for a few days. I'm rather hesitant to drop to 500 calories this late in the game -- I think I've already tanked my metabolism pretty badly with all this low calorie stuff, and I don't care to damage it any further.

If I just wait out the stall, it'll probably break on its own, without my needing to lower calories any more.

I will very likely opt for the fat fast tomorrow and hope for the best.

[minimonkey]

Oh, and Daisy -- yes, I am a fan of the fat fast. I aim for 1000 calories, with about 90 % of the calories coming from fat. It's done me well in the past.

I'm just at a sticking point .. this is exactly the place I got stuck my very first round, when I stalled out for two weeks solid on 500 calories -- that did finally break on its own, and I pretty much lost all the way to goal at that point (though I did really struggle with like the last three pounds.)

As I recall, I finally just took a break from weighing and stuck to protocol, and was pleasantly surprised when I finally did weigh.

[minimonkey]

Hexa -- OMG, I hear you about the fatigue and p2 -- I just couldn't manage the workouts after a point. I hope your body is more forgiving in that regard.

I'm doing ok this round in terms of energy -- not horribly dragged out, all things considered... but I would be if I were trying to work out.

I am starting to get get pretty neurotic about weight and food, though -- and that's troublesome. I think maybe the not weighing will help in that regard... or perhaps it would just make me more neurotic and nervous, I'm not sure.

On the plus side, I do think some inches are coming off. My clothes seem to be fitting more loosely in the legs and butt, in particular. This also happened my first round... I lost a lot of inches during that long stall.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Wow -- a lot of us got hit with gains this morning

So much for 500 calories today -- I am coming in at about 1200. I did get in about 3 miles of walking though -- and about a mile and a half of it was carrying groceries, so that's at least a little exercise.

Tomorrow I am on the run all day, so it will be easy not to eat much. I may do a fat fast tomorrow -- that's easy on days when I am on the run -- one meal, and nothing more to worry about. I also may opt for a 500 calorie day -- that'll probably mean toughing out some hunger, but that is ok.

I ate hot sauce today (OMG, really scorching hot! habanero sauce -- so good!!) but that has sodium, which often doesn't make the scale like me much.

I'm frustrated with all this -- and I think I may stay off the scale for a few days. I'm rather hesitant to drop to 500 calories this late in the game -- I think I've already tanked my metabolism pretty badly with all this low calorie stuff, and I don't care to damage it any further.

If I just wait out the stall, it'll probably break on its own, without my needing to lower calories any more.

I will very likely opt for the fat fast tomorrow and hope for the best.

What is a refeed and fat fast?

[HexaTheAmazon]

I do alot of protein. Hopefully, that will help me through it.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Hexa -- OMG, I hear you about the fatigue and p2 -- I just couldn't manage the workouts after a point. I hope your body is more forgiving in that regard.

I'm doing ok this round in terms of energy -- not horribly dragged out, all things considered... but I would be if I were trying to work out.

I am starting to get get pretty neurotic about weight and food, though -- and that's troublesome. I think maybe the not weighing will help in that regard... or perhaps it would just make me more neurotic and nervous, I'm not sure.

On the plus side, I do think some inches are coming off. My clothes seem to be fitting more loosely in the legs and butt, in particular. This also happened my first round... I lost a lot of inches during that long stall.

I don't mind losing inches just as long as I don't lose it in the wrong spots... I want my boo-bees to stay but they seem to be running away.. What the heck?

[CherylB]

Mini, how are things on the home front? Has your roomate moved out yet? If not, I'm sure that is playing into your stall and frustration. Lord knows how stress affects our bodies.

WTG on the walking (with groceries, no less) and the inch-loss. Loose clothes rock!

[minimonkey]

A refeed is a period of time (usually one or two days) of eating higher calories to shake up the metabolism -- it sometimes helps break a stall, though it usually comes with a short term gain.

The fat fast is based on Atkins -- it's a stall breaker on the Atkins plan. A fat fast is a day (or more) of eating almost all of one's calories from fat. I generally aim for 1000 calories, with 90% of them from fat. This has worked really well for me in the past.


There is an entire plan called Eat Fat Get Thin where the majority of one's calories come from fat -- it is pretty low protein, so I can't sustain it for long, but alternating high fat and normal p2 days works pretty well for me. Of course, nothing is working for me right now in this current stall, so I am not a good example to judge by ... but I have had good losses from fat fast days previously, and they do keep me really satisfied.

I haven't tried a really low calorie fat fast day, but that might be something to try... they kick the body into ketosis pretty quickly.

I don't generally stay in ketosis on this plan I don't think .. I eat fruit, and that is just too many carbs for it to be ketogenic for me. I keep to the lower glycemic fruits, but it is still above the ketosis threshold.

I hope not to have to live in a ketogenic state forever, so it is actually nice not to be maintaining that during losing.

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by HexaTheAmazon

What is a refeed and fat fast?

A refeed is a day (or meal) you take off-plan to "refeed" your body while doing a strict, low cal diet. Some call them cheats. I think if it's a planned day, then it's part of the plan and therefore can not be called (demoted to) a cheat. Such a negative word!

Fat fast is eating almost nothing but fat for a day. Both are used to shake up the metabolism and break stalls (or just get through a holiday, which is how I use my refeeds.)

I've never done a fat fast myself. It is something that Dr Atkins used to mention in his book (back in the day) to break a nasty stall. But he called anothing over a few weeks a stall. We don't have the patience around here for that!

I also like doing an apple day. Just eat apples, plain, all day for one day. Limit 6 apples. No size limit. Next day, whoosh! Usually no backlash either.

[CherylB]

You win with the faster gun, Mini! LOL

[minimonkey]

Cheryl -- things are pretty stressful at home. Roommate is staying for the time being, but it is a tough situation. She can be pretty mean to me at times, which hurts a lot, since I really do care a great deal for her.

It's rough ... my partner is too disabled to do much of anything around the house, and my roommate pretty much refuses to do any work on a regular basis, so I end up cleaning up after three people (and seventeen birds!) I am a tidy person by nature, so it is hard on me to live with people who are messy.

I don't mind cleaning up after the birds.. they are my deal, and they bring me a lot of joy ... but I do get fatigued cleaning up after two very, very messy people.

Supposedly my roommate is about to get a fairly good sized inheritance, so she *should* be able to pay her share of the rent at some point in the near future... but I am not holding my breath on that one. This month was a lot of broken promises... again. Of course, I am the bad guy for being upset about that.... sigh.

If something doesn't change, we are going to need to get another roommate, at the very least. I can't support all of us much longer. My partner is working again, so at least he is now able to help me cover rent, which helps -- but I am still carrying the bulk of the household expenses like groceries, gas for the roommate's car, etc.

We don't have a very good situation for taking in another roommate -- we have a big space, but it is a loft... so we have cubicles more than separate rooms. It doesn't make for much privacy, and noise, light, and such are impossible to isolate effectively.

I'm sure the stress of that -- plus the tremendous stress of being in the last year of graduate school in a really good program, is getting to me. I spend too much of my time taking care of everything and everyone, and I don't get nearly enough time to dedicate to school, so I am not doing nearly as well as I could be if everything else were equal.... but there's not much to do about it, unless I am prepared to be heartless and actually kick my roommate out.

Despite her convictions to the contrary, I am not heartless.... (if she ever lived with other roommates, she'd find out pretty quickly that not paying rent for months on end, and refusing to do any housework, letting trash pile up knee deep in her room, etc. doesn't fly well with most people.) She probably would have been kicked out of most living situations long ago.

Looking at it objectively, I have been way more than generous and tolerant -- so it hurts to have her then turn around and accuse me of being selfish, thoughtless, etc. It's a sore spot for me I was raised to put everyone else's needs before my own, and that is tough when their needs are never, ever met.

[minimonkey]

As far as refeeds go -- they are something of a crapshoot. They can bring better losses in the weeks following, or ... you can end up with a gain that refuses to go away, like I did with this last one The idea is to keep the body from becoming too acclimated to low calories and thus lowering the metabolism too much.

Honestly, my refeed was pretty small in the grand scheme of things, so it may not even have been the offender -- perhaps my weight would have bounced up anyhow as part of the current stall.

I think I will give the lower calorie fat fast a try -- that just might do the trick.

Right now, I feel a lot like giving up altogether, but that isn't much of an answer -- though if I can't break the stall soon, I may end up taking a short p3 break. That isn't what I want to do, though... I'd rather exhaust every other possibility first, including trying protocol, fasting, what have you.... I really want to start the new year at goal.

[dazygyrl]

ok, mini...i get the rent part with your roommate and all...but WHY would YOU be responsible for putting gas in HER car??

i'm so sorry for the tough living situation.

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

ok, mini...i get the rent part with your roommate and all...but WHY would YOU be responsible for putting gas in HER car??

i'm so sorry for the tough living situation.

You took the words right out of my mouth, Dazy! Mini, she's a manipulator and a user and she's playing you like a violin. It's time for you to show her just exactly what Mini looks and acts like when she's being all the things your roomie is accusing you of being. Do yourself a favor and get rid of her. NOW.

I'm sorry the whole loft thing is a problem in itself, but living under the same roof with someone you have such animosity with is no solution either. I thought you said she won't even give you rides in her car anymore. What is up with putting gas in it for her? And then you're walking a mile and a half with groceries?

Mini, please send her packing. She's not paying for the rent anyway. Without her, at least you'll have a little peace (and a lower food bill) until you get the next roommate. You can recruit for a neat and tidy person this time! Someone who makes good money but is rarely ever home!

I think doing P3 right now is a great idea. Who cares if you aren't at goal for the new year? It'll be fine. You are in need of nourishment. Give your body a break and try to find some peace. We all love you, Mini. Love yourself. Kick the B**** to the curb.

[Kiki373]

When you do a refeed day, do you take the HCG or do you do the 2 days off of HCG and prior to your refeed and then resume P2 the day after?

We are having friends over to the house this Friday night (would be VLCD 12) and my husband is cooking steaks on the grill and everyone is bringing a dish. I don't want to be a "party pooper" but I am so scared of the gain I am going to have. (I have done so good this round - not bragging, just proud of myself). I wasn't sure which way would be better....to dose right through the refeed or to stop like I am entering into P3 for the day.

Little background on my HCG journey this year:

Started on 8/30 with loading for 2 days; interrupted on 9/24 - 9/26 (day 24, 25,and 26 of VLCD). I was off HCG and treated it as P3; however I didn't eat all P3 foods (step sons bday party and leftovers from it the next day) gained 6 lbs over that 3 day weekend. I resumed P2 on 9/27, and it took me 6 days to get back down to the weight I was the day prior to my interuption. I concluded that round on day 45 (10/15). Started P3 in the evening on 10/15 and did 16 days of P3. Restarted a new round on 10/30 - 1 day of loading with drops and started VLCD on 10/31. I realize I will only be on day 11 when I take my "one day break" and will most likely have issues losing the weight from that day when I resume the VLCD. Then I have 12 more days of VLCD before I stop this round because I will be entering P3 on Thanksgiving day.

I guess I will have to take what I can in regards to my LDW on this round. I was really hoping to lose 8.4 more lbs in this round to get down to 120 but with the "break" this Friday and 12 more days of VLCD after that prior to entering P3 for Thanksgiving, I don't see it happening. Since I am currently sick, maybe I will still be sick on Friday and won't eat alot to affect my weight that terribly much.

So frustrating!!!!

[LoriSax]

I had a couple questions about OWL. I am on my first day of loading. If OWL is dairy-free, can you suggest something else I can use in my coffee? I use Soy Slender right now. do you do a 3 week cycle of no sugars, no starches?? If I e=use frozen brocoli, about how much would I measure out, 2 cups??
Lori

[minimonkey]

Oh, I wish it were that simple -- we have animosity, but a lot of love for each other, too. And I have been supporting her almost completely, not just rent, but living expenses as well. It's a mess, but hopefully it will get better. I can't just kick a friend to the curb... I can't do it.

You guys are wonderful ... thank you for all the support, and for letting me whine.

So -- as for the diet.... ahem... I have made a decision. After a lot of thinking this over today, I made a deal/compromise with myself -- I allowed myself one cheat night tonight, and then I'm going for a run of 500 calorie days. This is like a little mini-load before the plunge -- which I honestly think I needed, since I am going 500 calories a day from here on in. I hope I can sustain that all the way to goal.

No more messing around -- I am going to do this thing... for me.

*I* care that I am at goal at the beginning of the year -- and that is one thing I can do for myself, without impinging on anyone else. I deserve that, and I am going to claim it -- so tomorrow I begin my 500 calorie/max days -- I won't weigh until at least Friday, and I hope I will have broken even from today's indulgences by then.

I'm still in the p2 mentality, and I am afraid that if I jump ship now, I won't get back on.... so I am going to do this right. I did it once, and I can do it again -- and I think now is the time. No more messing around here.... I'm ready -- or at least as ready as I am going to get.

Bring it on. I updated my signature to reflect this new plan.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

As far as refeeds go -- they are something of a crapshoot. They can bring better losses in the weeks following, or ... you can end up with a gain that refuses to go away, like I did with this last one The idea is to keep the body from becoming too acclimated to low calories and thus lowering the metabolism too much.

Honestly, my refeed was pretty small in the grand scheme of things, so it may not even have been the offender -- perhaps my weight would have bounced up anyhow as part of the current stall.

I think I will give the lower calorie fat fast a try -- that just might do the trick.

Right now, I feel a lot like giving up altogether, but that isn't much of an answer -- though if I can't break the stall soon, I may end up taking a short p3 break. That isn't what I want to do, though... I'd rather exhaust every other possibility first, including trying protocol, fasting, what have you.... I really want to start the new year at goal.

Thanks for the information. Do what your body tells you to do. From the first time I read your post months ago you seem to have transformed just fine. Whatever decision you make will be right for your body.

Your home situation is very difficult and though it is not my place to say, I would not allow a roommate to remain without paying rent. The conditions you describe are very difficult and where there is stress there is cortisol. Cortisol makes it very tough for weight loss. I have personally had a roommate where I gave her a time to leave. She was stressing the househole out and accusing us of things we did not do. The rest of the household was unhappy and stressed. You seem to be a kind person. Don't second guess yourself.

[HexaTheAmazon]

Originally Posted by CherylB

A refeed is a day (or meal) you take off-plan to "refeed" your body while doing a strict, low cal diet. Some call them cheats. I think if it's a planned day, then it's part of the plan and therefore can not be called (demoted to) a cheat. Such a negative word!

Fat fast is eating almost nothing but fat for a day. Both are used to shake up the metabolism and break stalls (or just get through a holiday, which is how I use my refeeds.)

I've never done a fat fast myself. It is something that Dr Atkins used to mention in his book (back in the day) to break a nasty stall. But he called anothing over a few weeks a stall. We don't have the patience around here for that!

I also like doing an apple day. Just eat apples, plain, all day for one day. Limit 6 apples. No size limit. Next day, whoosh! Usually no backlash either.

Thanks for the information. If I stall, and I hope I do not, I will try the refeed day. That's good to know. Have you ever eaten tofu on this protocol?

[lookingforward]

I have used situations like this as "mini steak days". Only liquid until dinner, then a steak and a tomato with fresh basil, sea salt, and a bit of balsamic vinegar. I have consistently maintained or lost .5-1lb each time. I have begun to look forward to them!

Good luck!!

[tay65]

I got my new drops today and haven't made up my mind whether or not to take them now, or wait.
Let ya'all know tomorrow!

[minimonkey]

Thanks again, ladies, for listening. I know my cortisol levels are probably sky high (or else my adrenals have burned out altogether, which is also possible) -- the home situation is only a portion of it -- the rest of it is just part and parcel of the program I'm in, finances, and so forth.

I am at least trying to take better care of myself, in terms of getting adequate rest, taking vitamins, and that kind of thing.

Tammy -- looking forward to hearing your decision about the drops.

Cheryl -- I am inclined to try an apple day again -- I only tried one once, and immediately regained what I had lost, so never did another one... but it might be worth a try.

For now, I am going with the 500 calorie days at least until the losses are steady again... at that point, I may adjust upwards a little if I can get away with it.

I think the hardest part is going to be staying off the scale for a few days -- but I also think I need to do that for my own peace of mind. If I am doing 500 calorie days, the weight absolutely has to budge at some point. It'll happen whether I weigh or not.

[DisneyPrincess]

Just wanted to stop in and say hello to my hHCG friends. Last week I went on a 3 day binge and paid for it royally. I gained about 5 pounds of pure fat I've been on plan for 3 days and am down exactly 3 pounds. I plan to ride this out. Even my fat jeans barely fit at this weight! So I started taking the hHCG again in hopes that it will help speed up my losses a little. Right now I'm not doing protocol, but just sticking to low cals and moderate carbs. If I can lose 1/2 a pound a day average I'll be more than thrilled. I will be doing a slight carb up Saturday and Sunday morning since I have the marathon Sunday. I'm trying to lose as much as I can until then because running with this extra weight is really going to slow me down even more than my ankle injury

I'm going to catch up with you all and see how everyone is losing. I need some motivation!!!

[dazygyrl]

Originally Posted by LoriSax

I had a couple questions about OWL. I am on my first day of loading. If OWL is dairy-free, can you suggest something else I can use in my coffee? I use Soy Slender right now. do you do a 3 week cycle of no sugars, no starches?? If I e=use frozen brocoli, about how much would I measure out, 2 cups??
Lori

hi, lori...i answered this, but maybe it got buried. i use up to a 1/4 cup of regular half & half. i just figure it into my daily 700 cals. i could not do this without my coffee and i just don't "DO" black coffee. blech...

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by Ashes20

New week and back on plan tomorrow. Wasn't too terribly bad over the weekend but kind of loaded up today in anticipation of dropping back down to 800 calories starting tomorrow and restarting my hhcg. I know calorie cycling works well for me so I've kind of looked at these few days more as cycling rather than "cheating."

Good luck with your restart! Hopefully the gain will come back as fast as it went on.

Originally Posted by minimonkey

On the plus side, I do think some inches are coming off. My clothes seem to be fitting more loosely in the legs and butt, in particular. This also happened my first round... I lost a lot of inches during that long stall.

Yeah for inches!

Originally Posted by HexaTheAmazon

I don't mind losing inches just as long as I don't lose it in the wrong spots... I want my boo-bees to stay but they seem to be running away.. What the heck?

No advice, mine were cantelopes when I started and are now bean bags on the end of some crew socks.

Originally Posted by Kiki373

When you do a refeed day, do you take the HCG or do you do the 2 days off of HCG and prior to your refeed and then resume P2 the day after?

When I took weekends off - I stopped the drops until the night before resuming. I think it can work either way (with or without) but I liked saving those precious drops.

Originally Posted by DisneyPrincess

Just wanted to stop in and say hello to my hHCG friends. Last week I went on a 3 day binge and paid for it royally. I gained about 5 pounds of pure fat I've been on plan for 3 days and am down exactly 3 pounds. I plan to ride this out. Even my fat jeans barely fit at this weight! So I started taking the hHCG again in hopes that it will help speed up my losses a little. !

Good luck losing those pounds...I hate that it can come on in a couple days and take forever to come off!


I am down 1.4 of my overnight 2.6 gain. Today is an Up day for me (like P3).

Sending a shoutout to everyone I missed.

I work from home today, and DH is staying home from work sick. Give me strength to make it through the day, Lord!