The "10 Pounds Left" Phenomenon

[garnet10]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

My problem has been that trying to get these last ten (actually fifteen) off, my body keeps going into starvation mode so traditional protocol stops working after a couple weeks. I've done two rounds and both about the same. The good news is the second round worked great to start with just like the first, it just seems for me the closer I get the smaller the chunks I can whittle away per round. Interestingly enough the percentage was the same 4.7%. The freedom I'm looking forward to more than anything else as I transition into P3 is the freedom to exercise. I'm getting that scrawny look going from the weight and muscle loss and I'm beginning to feel the strength loss.

Ah...this is one of my fears. I ended this fourth round early because I just felt SOOO exhausted and worn out. I am about 10 pounds from goal and I often wonder if I will also go into "starvation mode" on my "last"? round.

I am definitely going to exercise in this round's P3, to hopefully increase my chances of a more successful "last" round. I'll just have to wait and see.

It's also discouraging to hear you have lost muscle as well, when this diet is supposed to spare muscle.

[minimonkey]

When I hit "goal" in Feb. I was looking quite scrawny in my upper body... I am fairly sure there was muscle loss for me, too - though I wasn't in great shape when I started, so it is hard to say. I still had the last bit of stubborn lower body fat, too...

The last couple of rounds I've tried, I definitely felt like I was in starvation mode... freezing, exhausted, weak, just generally shutting down physically... and that started after just a few days.

I have my doubts about how well this works for those last pesky pounds, unless one doesn't mind running the risk of muscle loss.

[shelbyla]

As an aside, I exercised through both of my rounds. Before my first round I hadn't been exercising a lot but decided that I could legitimately do 20-30 minutes of light cardio in the form of a treadclimber workout (hiking machine, essentially) which I did all through that round--2 to 2.5 mph. I did not notice any impact to cardio stamina.

I added weights after 2 weeks of R1P3, which was when I noticed the weakness but was able to get back to a normal amount of weight, lifting, after two more weeks so I don't think I actually lost much muscle. Doubling weight in my sets just doesn't happen that quickly, at least not for me. I did weights for about a month then got really sick, so laid off them while I was recovering. I then went on a cruise, came back and immediately jumped into round 2.

Throughout round 2, I upped my cardio significantly--average of 40-45 minutes of high intensity cardio at 3-4mph. I am 3 months into P4 now and just added weights back, and as mentioned, took up right where I left off when I got sick. Maybe it was the amount of time that I gave myself to "recover" from the low cal diet, maybe it was continuation of the cardio at higher levels during the second round, but I DO notice that my muscle mass seems to be fine, and actually more pronounced--although I think that's just the lack of flub covering it!

All that said, I think there is a big difference between what I do for exercise and what Mini and Millenia do. They both do long intense workouts, with a lot of weights and other resistance. OTOH, my workouts are chump change compared to theirs! I just don't think that calories in P2 are high enough, even with modifications, to sustain those kinds of workouts. There is also probably something to actually HOW and WHAT is burned when you are exercising that hard that is different (not sure exactly WHAT since I am not that scientific!). I have also seen folks doing marathon training that have issues with the low calorie of traditional protocol.

When and if I choose to go back to P2 (for those last 10 pounds ), I will probably scale back my cardio workouts and not do weights. FOR ME, it's really one or the other, the diet OR the hard exercise. Or more appropriately, one AFTER the other--the low-cal diet of P2 THEN adding back the weights and heavy training. I know for folks like Mini and Millenia, giving up the workouts is not a great option, if it's even an option at all.

[emel]

Originally Posted by kimberlybimberly

So, here's my deal...

You all may or may not remember me. I never did post a lot. I did three long rounds, lost my weight, and have maintained in my window (although I've never been below LDW) since February.

I had gained my weight due to illness and lost it, with the help of my doctor, as part of regaining my health. My doctor does not want me to lose more weight.

I was unable to exercise for about 5 years, also due to my illness, and now work out regularly. I have been able to change my body somewhat through exercise. I should add that, due to my body's limitations, my life's demands, and hours/day-days/week, I can't really work out more than I currently do.

I don't care how much I weigh - it's a number. However, I CANNOT get rid of some stuff. I have too much belly and hips and not enough waist. Handfuls of fat in these areas. I am 48 and I know that is "normal" for my age, but I hate, hate, hate it. I know I can't lose in those areas without hCG. I also can't lose any more of my almost nonexistant boobs.

I have been debating doing another short round. Still unsure. This thread surfaced at a time when I am thinking hard about this. Thought I'd add my experiences to it.

It's nice to see you posting again. I remember you were very supportive and had a very good mindset about the protocol when I was starting out.

Originally Posted by Millenia98

Heya! You can’t spot reduce. You can only lose weight as a whole. Your body will lose it where it chooses, basically.

You can def. try to tone yourself in those areas by having a strict exercise regimen, but if you’re not going to stick to it long-term, your only choice is to lose more weight overall.

I definitely spot-reduced. For sure.
I lost from my waist,hips, and thighs. Although I have not lost much weight after my first round, my body shape continues to improve. My breasts are larger now, and my hips and thighs continue to shrink even without weight loss.

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by emel

I definitely spot-reduced. For sure.
I lost from my waist,hips, and thighs. Although I have not lost much weight after my first round, my body shape continues to improve. My breasts are larger now, and my hips and thighs continue to shrink even without weight loss.

Me too. ^^^ I don't think it's "spot reducing" as much as it is P2 attacking "abnormal fat" as opposed to normal fat.

[TerriMM]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

As an aside, I exercised through both of my rounds. Before my first round I hadn't been exercising a lot but decided that I could legitimately do 20-30 minutes of light cardio in the form of a treadclimber workout (hiking machine, essentially) which I did all through that round--2 to 2.5 mph. I did not notice any impact to cardio stamina.

I added weights after 2 weeks of R1P3, which was when I noticed the weakness but was able to get back to a normal amount of weight, lifting, after two more weeks so I don't think I actually lost much muscle. Doubling weight in my sets just doesn't happen that quickly, at least not for me. I did weights for about a month then got really sick, so laid off them while I was recovering. I then went on a cruise, came back and immediately jumped into round 2.

Throughout round 2, I upped my cardio significantly--average of 40-45 minutes of high intensity cardio at 3-4mph. I am 3 months into P4 now and just added weights back, and as mentioned, took up right where I left off when I got sick. Maybe it was the amount of time that I gave myself to "recover" from the low cal diet, maybe it was continuation of the cardio at higher levels during the second round, but I DO notice that my muscle mass seems to be fine, and actually more pronounced--although I think that's just the lack of flub covering it!

All that said, I think there is a big difference between what I do for exercise and what Mini and Millenia do. They both do long intense workouts, with a lot of weights and other resistance. OTOH, my workouts are chump change compared to theirs! I just don't think that calories in P2 are high enough, even with modifications, to sustain those kinds of workouts. There is also probably something to actually HOW and WHAT is burned when you are exercising that hard that is different (not sure exactly WHAT since I am not that scientific!). I have also seen folks doing marathon training that have issues with the low calorie of traditional protocol.

When and if I choose to go back to P2 (for those last 10 pounds ), I will probably scale back my cardio workouts and not do weights. FOR ME, it's really one or the other, the diet OR the hard exercise. Or more appropriately, one AFTER the other--the low-cal diet of P2 THEN adding back the weights and heavy training. I know for folks like Mini and Millenia, giving up the workouts is not a great option, if it's even an option at all.

After reading your post and relooking at my first round I do see one significant difference. Round one, I had my walking buddies and was walking briskly three to four times and week for 30 minutes and with my husband more leisurely for about 5 miles on the weekends. I was also able to start some light weights and Pilates towards the end of P2 without stalling. This round, my walking buddies at work were MIA and I used that as an excuse to skip it, plus due to the heat, my husband and I have not walked near as much. When I tried to pick up the weights in P2 I stalled big time and have felt exhausted the last couple weeks. So that being said, when and if I do a third round, I will make every effort to keep some cardio going from the beginning. I may not necessarily loss more, but I believe I will feel better and possibly loss less muscle and or stamina.

[Millenia98]

Originally Posted by emel

It's nice to see you posting again. I remember you were very supportive and had a very good mindset about the protocol when I was starting out.



I definitely spot-reduced. For sure.
I lost from my waist,hips, and thighs. Although I have not lost much weight after my first round, my body shape continues to improve. My breasts are larger now, and my hips and thighs continue to shrink even without weight loss.

Spot reducing. Meaning exercising a certain part of your body in hopes that you will only lose weight there.

During your rounds, you lost weight due to dieting and it came off and shaped your body in certain areas.

[minimonkey]

Well, that is the beauty of hhcg/hcg for a lot of us -- it tends to get rid of fat where we need it most.

Spot reducing though exercise doesn't exactly work, but working certain areas of the body, specifically, certainly help their appearance! Muscle does wonders to firm things up.

[sweetbiella]

I really like your post....I've thought about it too. I want to lose 10 more pounds...lazy to start exercising (losing 10 pounds with exercise will take weeks!! while hcg can get rid of it in a week). I also don't want to go through HCG cause then I'll have to do it with 23 days minimum which I don't have a courage too...and I've been having crazy thoughts of doing HCG for one week skip 3 days and move to P3 for one to two weeks and see what will happen.

[C'Marie]

One thing to consider - something my doctor said - in losing weight, you DO lose a little muscle as part of the process even with hcg, because your body doesn't require as much muscle to lug around less weight. The proportion is just WAY less than traditional diets. To say that we don't want to lose ANY muscle is unrealistic. The body will trim it down some with no fault of our diet or exercise. I've lost 100 + pounds, and I know I've lost a little muscle. Why shouldn't I? I'm carrying that much less weight now.

Also, you can "feel" weaker because when the fat is stripped out from the middle of the muscle, it leaves little spaces that eventually tighten up, and it changes your proprioception (sp?) and how your muscle reacts for awhile. In that way, it may feel like you've lost strength until that muscle shape changes slightly again after you work it.

Anyway, I do understand the desire to keep as much as possible of the muscle because it does so many synergistic things for us, one of which is keeping metabolism up. But I just wanted to point this out what my doc said. The guy when I went and got bodpod weighed said the same thing.

[TerriMM]

I know you're right Marie. And it's exactly what Dr. Simeons told us in P&I. Something I think we all needed to be reminded of. Thanks for that.

[C'Marie]

I just don't want newbies to read about muscle loss and strength loss and think, "Ack! I shouldn't do hcg, it causes muscle loss." Because in the scheme of things, it's very little.

[privatediva]

I have thought and thought about this thread. On my long walk this morning, I had the thought that perhaps that last ten pounds is the most important bit to take off with HCG. I think we pretty much universally believe that the stuff really does spare our "normal" fat and causes us to release the stuff we don't want. At least I am certain of it...no other explanation for how much and where I lost what I lost. So...that last ten...you don't have that much abnormal fat to lose before you start getting into the good stuff. I think I'd want to try to preserve my good fat and only lose the abnormal type. It seems infinitely important to me as an old lady, not to deplete the stuff that makes my joints comfortable and my skin supple. So...if I had ten to lose, I think I would do it with the HCG. I'm not going to though.

[TerriMM]

The other part of the equation is when I got down to the last fifteen I was stuck. Not Atkins, Weight Watchers, Exercise, nothing could get me past that point. HCG was the only thing that worked. So it isn't really a matter of if I want to use HCG, it's a matter of whether I want to lose more weight.

[kimberlybimberly]

Originally Posted by Millenia98

Heya! You can’t spot reduce. You can only lose weight as a whole. Your body will lose it where it chooses, basically.

You can def. try to tone yourself in those areas by having a strict exercise regimen, but if you’re not going to stick to it long-term, your only choice is to lose more weight overall.

Thanks for your response. I think you misunderstood me. The debate is whether to use hCG or live with the weight/fat.

After reading Shelby's post about your workouts, I realize that we are working at completely different levels. But... I was able to maintain my weight training during P2 by forgoing the cardio workouts. I thought the benefits of the weight training were far more important.

Originally Posted by emel

It's nice to see you posting again. I remember you were very supportive and had a very good mindset about the protocol when I was starting out.

Thanks emel. I pop in to catch up every once in a while.

[garnet10]

Originally Posted by privatediva

...On my long walk this morning, I had the thought that perhaps that last ten pounds is the most important bit to take off with HCG...So...that last ten...you don't have that much abnormal fat to lose before you start getting into the good stuff. I think I'd want to try to preserve my good fat and only lose the abnormal type. It seems infinitely important to me as an old lady, not to deplete the stuff that makes my joints comfortable and my skin supple. So...if I had ten to lose, I think I would do it with the HCG. I'm not going to though.

Ah, good point about losing those last 10 pounds as abnormal fat! My only issue is that apparently I had abnormal fat on my boobs, because they are back to the size they were when I was 11!

[TerriMM]

Originally Posted by garnet10

Ah, good point about losing those last 10 pounds as abnormal fat! My only issue is that apparently I had abnormal fat on my boobs, because they are back to the size they were when I was 11!

I'm back to the same bra size I wore 30 years ago, which wouldn't be a problem but they're just a tiny bit less perky. Boob toning suggestions anyone?

[Maureen in Italy]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

The other part of the equation is when I got down to the last fifteen I was stuck. Not Atkins, Weight Watchers, Exercise, nothing could get me past that point. HCG was the only thing that worked. So it isn't really a matter of if I want to use HCG, it's a matter of whether I want to lose more weight.

I started on HCG because I could always get down to within 15 pounds of where I wanted to be but I could never lose my pear-shaped thighs and flabby arms, even with exercise. HCG is what took me to a place I'd only dreamed of. My first P2, P3, and P4 were all done with the intention of making that new weight a setpoint. I was successful in the sense that when I vacation eat and drink I end up 5-7 pounds over my LDW. It usually stops around there. (I also watch it when my weight starts to climb)

[KelliC]

I did have 10-15 left when my round ended. I was originally planning to do another round wthin a couple of months. However, once I was in p4 and doing (VERY light) excercise, I dropped 7 of those pounds. I stablized amazingly well and it seems that my metabolism has truly reset. I know not all rounds are created equal so since things are so awesome now and I can lose a little at a time, I'm content to be there. I'm really kind of wishy washy on how many lbs are left for me to lose, as even in the 130s I was avoiding scales like the plague. It's more about a clothing size than a scale number for me(now that I'm in a "normal" bmi) I'm shooting for a standard size 8 (I've got the hourglass figure thing so I have to go up a size or so for today's jeans to fit my hips) In my early 20s I was a 4 but I don't think that was really a healthy weight for me. I'll be more than happy at a stable 8

[TerriMM]

Originally Posted by KelliC

I did have 10-15 left when my round ended. I was originally planning to do another round wthin a couple of months. However, once I was in p4 and doing (VERY light) excercise, I dropped 7 of those pounds. I stablized amazingly well and it seems that my metabolism has truly reset. I know not all rounds are created equal so since things are so awesome now and I can lose a little at a time, I'm content to be there. I'm really kind of wishy washy on how many lbs are left for me to lose, as even in the 130s I was avoiding scales like the plague. It's more about a clothing size than a scale number for me(now that I'm in a "normal" bmi) I'm shooting for a standard size 8 (I've got the hourglass figure thing so I have to go up a size or so for today's jeans to fit my hips) In my early 20s I was a 4 but I don't think that was really a healthy weight for me. I'll be more than happy at a stable 8

That's excellent Kelli! DH and I are both hoping it works that way for us as well.

[minimonkey]

Some of you know that I decided to try a total experiment: a calorie controlled, very high fat stint with hhcg... and it is working!!!

I broke my very stubborn setpoint, and I am hoping I can ride this all the way to goal (which is roughly 8 lbs from here... maybe a little more, but I will figure that out when I get there.) I've been dropping about a half pound a day since starting, and I hope I can keep that going.

This is working, I am not starving (the hunger is there, but transient and can be managed) -- and I actually think I can do this.

Kelli -- "not all rounds are created equal"-- ain't that the truth!!!!!!!!! Now that I am finally having a good one, I am pretty determined to milk it for all it's worth!

This thread was what convinced me to give hhcg one last experimental trial, and I think that was a good thing.... I just ordered some more today, so I can finish out my three weeks and do a proper p3/p4.

[shelbyla]

Good luck Mini! We're rooting for you! I am still on the fence myself, sitting about 7-10 pounds above where I'd like to be. I really am getting into the whole maintenance aspect of it at P4+ 3 months and keeping my weight pretty consistently within the 152-157 range but...the 140's beckon. Maybe after my birthday in October to gear up for the holidays? Maybe in January to start the year out with a bang? Oh well, at least the fence is more comfortable in my size 6's!

[porkfatrules]

Mini -- I'm so intrigued by what you're doing, as well as the folks over on the EFGT group (Eat Fat Get Thin program). Based on the premise of HCG, it shouldn't work, right? The whole point is that the body releases is own stored fat in the absence of dietary fat . . . so if you're eating fat then it shouldn't be working! "Should" is such a tricky word, though -- just goes to show that the mechanisms working here are more complicated than we understand.

So glad it's working for you!!!

[garnet10]

Originally Posted by Maureen in Italy

I started on HCG because I could always get down to within 15 pounds of where I wanted to be but I could never lose my pear-shaped thighs and flabby arms, even with exercise. HCG is what took me to a place I'd only dreamed of. My first P2, P3, and P4 were all done with the intention of making that new weight a setpoint. I was successful in the sense that when I vacation eat and drink I end up 5-7 pounds over my LDW. It usually stops around there. (I also watch it when my weight starts to climb)

Wow. If my thighs really reshape in these last 10 pounds, I will be truly amazed! Thanks for giving me hope.

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Some of you know that I decided to try a total experiment: a calorie controlled, very high fat stint with hhcg... and it is working!!!

I broke my very stubborn setpoint, and I am hoping I can ride this all the way to goal (which is roughly 8 lbs from here... maybe a little more, but I will figure that out when I get there.) I've been dropping about a half pound a day since starting, and I hope I can keep that going.

This is working, I am not starving (the hunger is there, but transient and can be managed) -- and I actually think I can do this.

Kelli -- "not all rounds are created equal"-- ain't that the truth!!!!!!!!! Now that I am finally having a good one, I am pretty determined to milk it for all it's worth!

This thread was what convinced me to give hhcg one last experimental trial, and I think that was a good thing.... I just ordered some more today, so I can finish out my three weeks and do a proper p3/p4.

Mini, how much protein are you eating, and how many total calories per day?

[metqa]

What MiniMonkey is doing sounds similar to what Fozzie is doing with EFGT and HCG, and what I'm thinking of doing myself this round.

I wish I were within the last 10 lbs, but that was a couple of years ago and I'm working my way back down to that.

My last round was totally rogue, basing my meals on my protein staying aroung 87g per day, and low fat, and calories ranging from 500-800 per day. I lost the same average as when I did only 40g of protein Dr.S style and very low fat and Very Low Calories. It was easier to manage life, and I still got the satisfying losses average.

Even when I reached goal the first time, I didn't have the reshaping I hoped to have, but then there is the idea that reshaping happens in P3/P4 but my previous P4's have all been tragically derailed by illness/injuries that put the pounds and inches back on.

I keep seeing people mention they think they lost muscle. I dont want to seem crass, but how do you know? Other than using calipers, or body fat scale or submersion, how do you know you lost muscle other than feeling tired? one thing C'marie mentioned and I have read is that in any even where you are burning your own fat, there are intermuscular fat stores as well so that if your body used these, the girth of the muscle , from the outside, would be smaller. That accounts for some "slimming". Also, Muscle atrophy and building is an ongoing process, but if you don't give them a reason to rebuild more, then they will not. if you are not eating enough protein, they can't. So if you suspect you are losing muscle, then eat more protein. There is nothing special about Dr.S' plan or HCG that makes the muscle not waste. PROTEIN itself is the thing that spares muscle. Not hcg, nor any particular diet plan. A person could eat more than enough calories and still lose muscle if they don't eat enough protein to supply daily needs.

That's how I decided to do my last round. I just looked at my lean body mass and upped the protein to what I would need for minimal health if I weren't dieting, and that doesn't change if I lower my calories, My body still needs that protein.

Anyway protein lecture over! I'm starting today another round, and I'm not sure whether I'll keep low fat or do High fat like Fozzie and Mini, but I do know I'll keep that protein minimum.

I've read Dr. Eades 6week belly cure, and I wonder if the shakes I like to use could help "spot reduce" my belly as I try to lose fat overall. That last 10lbs don't mean as much to me as that last 5 inches or so. I don't really care about the weight as much as the belly inches. Unfortunately I don't hear people talk as much about their inches loss as they do about pounds.

[julieboolie]

Great thread!! Count me in with the dilema!! I'm also about 10lbs from where I'd like to be ultimately. What I'm working on right now is not looking to the scale as my ultimate goal. With weight training I'm planning to reshape and build strength while hopefully losing a bit of fat in the process. I'd love to see the 140's but will be happy in the low to mid 150's if I can comfortably wear my 6's and 8's.

Metqa-for me, I can see and feel the muslce loss from my last round. I couldn't lift nearly the same amount of weight I could before. I figured there'd be some loss, as is normal, but was pretty concerned at how weak I did get. Building muscle takes a lot of time and effort and I'm planning not to lose it again!!

Originally Posted by minimonkey

If I could do a round and make it work, and not fear that I would be either losing muscle or damaging my metabolism, or both..... I'd do it -- but the last couple of tries, I have gotten very hungry and very weak, and that worried me a lot.

Even with a modified protocol, it still depleted me very fast with my workout schedule like it is....

This is why I'm not planning to use hcg for my last 10lbs. My last 2 rounds were pretty dismal. I felt like I was starving and the scale wasn't budging. I don't mind putting in the work and sacrifice if it's working for me, but that wasn't my experience .

So, if you have 10lbs to lose, and the hcg will work for you - do it!! I would if I thought I'd see success. For me, I'm refocusing on building my muscles and strength up and hopefully recharging my metabolism. I may revisit some weight loss in January. I want to maintain here for a while as I have lots of travel this Fall. Once I'm happy w. the strength training I may try to lower cals in Jan to drop a few lbs. We'll see. I'd like to be metabolically healthy and less carb sensitive by then.

For now, I'm pretty happy overall. Hcg certainly helped me get here and I'm thankful for it. I just wish I could use it for this last 10. Maybe if I take a long enough break from it? We'll see .

[TerriMM]

Metqa - The muscle loss I mentioned was much like Julie, I could just lift less. But that being said, I still lost considerably less muscle then when I was on weight watchers and at a much higher weight.

Here's my dilemma:
DH who has been wonderfully stable for two weeks in P3 in rumbling about doing another P2. He only needs to lose another 5-7 lbs though which he can probably do in in a week or two at the most. I don’t think he’ll hang with P2 for 21 days if that’s the case, but feel he can easily go back to P3 no problem. Has anyone had experience with shorter rounds? I know it’s against protocol and not suggested. Just wondering if there are any roguers out there with advice on this. In this same scenario, I'm only 3 lbs from goal (though wouldn't mind losing a little more for a cushion). I'm in day eight of P3. If he did start another round, which wouldn't be for probably another three or four days at least, I'm half tempted to join him. It would be easier to do the same foods together. We do pellets so I don't think the immunity issue would be a factor. We wouldn't really load in the transitional sense, more like just eating real well on P3 up until, which I think has turned out to be the more suggested load anyway.

[metqa]

Well, the info I read said that because of the change in the size and composition of the muscle that it would change the ability of the muscle. Kinda like if you normally use a step stool to reach items in your cabinet, and then you took away the step stool, you'd not be able to reach as high. Plus without the glycogen stores in the muscles you'd not get as much power for quick twitch type activities like lifting weights. Dr. S suggests not exercising during rounds, but I think that will end up leaving people feeling weaker than if they did some sort of maintaining exercises during the round. Even some weight lifting does more to maintain muscle than none. but then again I'm thinking most people will be below protein for maintenance following only 200g weight of meat so there is that. No other plans restrict protein as much as Simeons. I know that I felt MORE energized and was able to do more than ever before in my last round by upping the protein. ( My BF insisted that I do Callanetics and it always kicks my but, but I got further in it during my round than I ever did before. go figure. Still kicks my butt though and I didn't lose 10 years off of my body, more like 10 hours and 10lbs from the HCG)

I don't see why we can't adjust HCG use during the last 10 like we do with other plan, eat higher calories, more protein and fat, less sugar and carbs, in order to get the benefits of HCG while still losing and sculpting, or at least that's what I hope will happen this time now that I've changed my mind about it. I plan to never be hungry, weak or cold again on HCG.

[metqa]

Originally Posted by TerriMM

Metqa - The muscle loss I mentioned was much like Julie, I could just lift less. But that being said, I still lost considerably less muscle then when I was on weight watchers and at a much higher weight.

Here's my dilemma:
DH who has been wonderfully stable for two weeks in P3 in rumbling about doing another P2. He only needs to lose another 5-7 lbs though which he can probably do in in a week or two at the most. I don’t think he’ll hang with P2 for 21 days if that’s the case, but feel he can easily go back to P3 no problem. Has anyone had experience with shorter rounds? I know it’s against protocol and not suggested. Just wondering if there are any roguers out there with advice on this. In this same scenario, I'm only 3 lbs from goal (though wouldn't mind losing a little more for a cushion). I'm in day eight of P3. If he did start another round, which wouldn't be for probably another three or four days at least, I'm half tempted to join him. It would be easier to do the same foods together. We do pellets so I don't think the immunity issue would be a factor. We wouldn't really load in the transitional sense, more like just eating real well on P3 up until, which I think has turned out to be the more suggested load anyway.

Why not start the round strict, according to plan and when he reaches his goal increase his calories for the rest of the 21 days? I'm sure Dr. S mentions that scenario in P&I. He doesn't have to keep it VLC if he's reached goal and is in danger of losing too much. In fact it would be good practice in maintaining the lower weight for the remaining P2 days while still having the HCG to help before going into the P3. If While in P2, he eats more foods, He should stop losing weight at some point, and then he could eat at that level, still with HCG. If he somehow gains during that time, he could easily just cut back to a VLC day and it should slide back off, without worrying about correction days.

Hope that helps and hope it works out for both of you. For those last 3 pounds Dr. S. said people do rounds where they don't lose but reshape. Of course You'd probably be able to eat higher calories also to maintain while still losing fat.

I say this cause I lost while eating 800 calories per day, and I'm not alone, so i know it can be done.

I'm interested in how it turns outfor you and Hubby!

[TerriMM]

Thanks Metqa for both posts! It’s more the food limitations then the VLC thing. And you’re right, he lost and so did I on more of an 800 calorie day. I usually start out with 500 and then move up to alternating 800-1200 to keep losing when I stall. DH does more a consistent 800 ish.

As far as the muscle lose goes, I think you’re description of what happens makes a lot of sense. I stopped working out during both P2 rounds to lose more weight and I think it worked against me a little. When and if I do another round, I intend to maintain or slightly back off current levels and continue with lifting and Pilates throughout. I think that will cut back on any muscle lose, real or perceived, and benefit weight loss and stamina in the long run. I’m not a heavy exerciser, but I want to keep healthy and strong.