HCG with EFGT meals

[fozzie99]

Day 40 W 338.2 1707cals 74% 20% 6% FPC.

[Cruzcrzy]

Steve,

I've been thinking about what you said a few days back as to how you are eating SO much less than your BMR and not seeing the weightloss effects. I am a little perplexed about that too. Do you think it could be the higher fat COMBINED with taking the hcg since the hcg is designed to be taken with low fat/no fat? Paula, do you have any input?

Not much new with me. I am the same today(stats to the left), which I am happy about. I got my walk in. I am going up to Chik-Fil-A in a bit for a free breakfast, but, I am going to split it with dh. I am P4 legal starting today, but, except for the carbs in the breakfast(will consist of a bit of bagel), I should be fine.

[fozzie99]

I considered that when I was deciding to do this. Insulin loads fat cells and keeps them from being accesed for energy.....So keep insulin as low as possible. That means low carb not to much protein to avoid the excess being converted to carbs. That leaves fat for energy hence EFGT. IF....IF HCG opens fat cells then if you eat on protocol 500cals and loose 1lb per day that's 4000 cals used a day. So as long as you don't spike your insulin or eat over 4000cals a day there should be downward motion. Maybe not as fast but maybe better because of lower insulin levels then protocol eating with fruit and cracker. I might be doing to much lemon juice in my ice tea I use quite a lot.

[fozzie99]

Chik-fil-A have one right down the street from me.......they tore down a Popeye's and put up Chik....go figure. We do Kentucky further to drive but they have grilled with no breading.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by fozzie99

I considered that when I was deciding to do this. Insulin loads fat cells and keeps the from being accesed for energy.....So keep insulin as low as possible. That means low carb not to much protein to avoid the excess being converted to carbs. That leaves fat for energy hence EFGT. IF....IF HCG opens fat cells then if you eat on protocol 500cals and loose 1lb per day that's 4000 cals used a day. So as long as you don't spike your insulin or eat over 4000cals a day there should be downward motion. Maybe not as fast but maybe better because of lower insulin levels then protocol eating with fruit and cracker. I might be doing to much lemon juice in my ice tea I use quite a lot.

Lemon juice does add up. I can eat tons of calories with fat and not gain - much - but add more than 15 net carbs at the same calorie level and I start packing on the pounds. I don't seem to have any problem with excess protein - though I usually stick to around 80 in maintenance. I know women tend to have more leptin problems and men more insulin problems.

I've always been skeptical of the don't eat fat mantra in the simeon's protocol. Honestly, I think it's the total calories that matter rather than the exact macronutrient content - although we all seem to have ratio's that work better for each of us. And certainly, there is no completely fat free food unless it's processed (and therefore I think pretty unhealthy).

For me I know I lose really well at 500 calories, okay at 600-700, and pretty much not at all at 800. My lean body mass, though, is only 93 pounds and I'm fairly inactive so I would think my numbers would be way smaller than Steve. Steve, you could be pushing against your calorie ceiling is my thought. Just an idea.

Of course, you sound patient with the process which I think will be good at keeping your metabolism stoked and from crashing.

[metqa]

I can understand the don't eat fat idea of Simeon's but I have to understand where he was coming from so many years ago.

If you look at total calories, fat has more than twice the calories of any other macronutrient, so it DOES make sense, mathmatecally to avoid fat. It doesn't make as much sense physiologically as fozzie has pointed out.

Another thing to consider is that people are just starting to understand the dynamics. Simeons Realized the body released fat to fuel the body, so his understanding was you don't want to drown the fire with excess gasoline. (Analogy: gasoline burns only when there is only enough of it to make a gas, pour liquid gas on the fire and you drown it)
Simeons Idea was to let as much of the body fuel burn, and not put any extra on to slow it down.

Now we realize the action of hormones and carbs and such and Fozzies plan does make sense. He's got the HCG to trigger the hormonal release of fat, he's got a calorie deficit, but he also is taking advantage of the low insulin that keeps the other fat releasing hormones active. So it's a double whammy so to speak.

I'll Bet Dr. S would be Astounded at Fozzies results. Too bad good Doctors have to Pass Away before their research is fullfilled, but science is never finished. It never rests and never quits questiong what it already knows. Years down the line, we might find a new angle to HCG and wonder at how ignorant we were in the 2010's.

[fozzie99]

Metga we always look back and with a shake of the head wonder how we didn't know what seems so obvious now.....hind sight is always 20/20.
Thank you all for the affirmations that I'm not a total crack pot in my methods. I thought losses might be less on my WoE but to equal or excede my HCG protocol losses I only need to manage .5lbs per day or even a little less.

[fozzie99]

Day 41 W 333.4 Skeptical!!!! but thrilled. 1573cals 86% 9% 5% FPC.
I was hungry all day between snacks. I may keep this "fat fast" going a little longer if I can take it. I stopped using lemon juice except for a little in some hollandaise sauce i whipped up for next week.

[fozzie99]

I'm so angry......With myself and the establishment. The more I learn the angrier I get. FAT GOOD CARB BAD I could have been doing this for many years. I've been a low carber for a long time but not low enough and to eratic to really help. One good thing that has probably helped me is I've never been afraid of sat. fat eggs fatty meat it's all good. I was cathed. 6 years ago because I was to fat to fit in the scanner. I was 50 fat and had CLEAR ARTERIES. Just lucky I didn't go low fat high carb.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by fozzie99

Day 41 W 333.4 Skeptical!!!! but thrilled. 1573cals 86% 9% 5% FPC.
I was hungry all day between snacks. I may keep this "fat fast" going a little longer if I can take it. I stopped using lemon juice except for a little in some hollandaise sauce i whipped up for next week.

Wow, great drop!

[Cruzcrzy]

Woo-Hoo!!! AWESOME!!! I say go with it as long as you can!

[Cruzcrzy]

I am UP 1.2 today, but, still within my windows(stats to the left). I was at the high end of carbs for me yesterday...50...the 1/2 bagel from Chik-Fil-A was 25grams alone!!! My body likes to stay under 30. I slept in today and not sure whether I am going to get my walk in. Dh and I are going to a local amusement park today. Our credit union has rented the place out and it only cost us $5 each for the tickets, and we have a free parking voucher. I've been wanting to go, but, didn't want to pay gate prices so I was thrilled when this came up.

[fozzie99]

I used to live near a park in NY. Love the rides to fat for most of them now. When I'm down enough making a trip to six flags. Problem is the older I get the more motion sensitive I get.

[metqa]

Fozzie, I'm curious about your math. When you calculated your Protein needs, did you base your calories off of the ratio that would keep your protein at that percent?

I'm trying to figure this out, because if Protein is a set amount and then it is a set percent then the calories of the other nutrients, carbs and fat, have to be limited by the protein needs.

EFGT ratios say 15%CHO 20% PRO 65%FAT ( i know these aren't your ratios, I just found them on the net)

So if my Protein should be 50g, then that is about 200kcal, then if that is 20%of my calories then My carbs would have to be no more than 37g or 150 kcal, and my fat would be no more than 72g or 650 calories, and that adds up to 1000Kcal per day.

Does that sound about right?

Of course I could change the carbs or fat percentages and get a different calorie total, but does that math reasoning make sense, and is that how you calculated for yourself, or did you use some different formula?

[fozzie99]

Metga,
Thanks for your interest.
I figured my protein requirements by several different methods.......numbers varied between around 60g to over 110g. I took a middle of the road number. How I decided on my percentages was to look at my calories burned in a day.
I use the most stringent numbers which are right now 2900cals a day (the calculations for that vary a lot also). To lose weight with or with out HCG intake has to be less than you use without going into starvation mode. So I figured what protein I wanted to use subtracted from total cals I tried to keep to. The remainder is given to fat and carbs. I try to keep carbs as low as possible and fill out the remainder with fats. When I "need" to "cheat" I try to do fatty proteins.
My current overall averages for around 40 days are 74% 20% 6% FPC. Calories burned 2900 calories consumed 1449.
Unless you weigh in water lean body weight numbers are hard to get with any real accuracy and that determines a lot of what I do. Your numbers make sense if your basis for protein amout is correct. I choose to go more fat and less carbs and minimum protein.
You must do your calculations for yourself and decide what you can live with.
Hope this is clear sorry for long winded post.

[metqa]

It's very clear,thank you for your response, You don't know how much it means to me to go through the trouble of spelling it out, your decisions and reasons.

I'm having some cognitive dissonance right now concerning Dr.S's Protocol, and Regular Low carb, and What I'm learning about EFGT and other similar plans where protein is regulated as well as carbs. I need to reinforce what I know is right, learn more about what I'm questionable about, and get rid of what I know is just wrong or wishful thinking.

For example, I like Dr.S's allowance of grains because I do like some grains, but I know I don't need them I just want them. I'm trying to find a way to do Dr'S. plan with the grains and fruit, and also have higher calories cause I'm worried about slowed metabolism and reconcile that with what I know about hormonal triggers for fat storage and fat burning and how carbs inhibit fat use. Oi, My head is swimming.

I am really grateful for you. I've been questioning things for a while and while I'm a busybody, I also am one of those people who "like to follow direction" but up until I find a reason not to.

I'm a nightmare for anyone who wants a purist sheep follower! I'll turn goat on a dime and I'll buck the old way in a heartbeat. but it's hard to make the break when you've tried so hard to believe the old way in order to follow it without regret. y'know?

[fozzie99]

Metga,
When I was younger in school I wouldn't buck the system even when what was said didn't make sense. It started with the way basic aerodynamics is taught in school. When I was older in sports I knew what they taught was wrong. I didn't get "brave" until I started to teach then I started to buck the system and was recognized as being right. Now as an old fart I have no problem with questioning the status quo. I know I can lose fat and it gives me the confidence to challenge what people "know" about how some diets work. I know exactly what you mean by"I just want it" Sometime a big problem with me. I don't eat because of hunger as much as I should. The way I'm eating right now won't last much past my goal weight. Because "I just want it" sometimes.

[fozzie99]

Day 42 w 332.4 1474cals 84% 12% 4% FPC.

[Cruzcrzy]

Originally Posted by fozzie99

Day 42 w 332.4 1474cals 84% 12% 4% FPC.

WHOA!!!! Fat Flush a SUCCESS. FANTASTIC LOSS!!:high 5:

[fozzie99]

We will see. I'm very heartened by you guys (girls) responding to my posts it really keeps my spirits up (even with the courage of my convictions I'm just waiting for the wheels to fall off). I'm still a little skeptical of an almost 6lb loss in 3 days.
I'm thinking of doing this on weekends Fri. night-Sun. night every week.
My wife dropped 3+lbs over the same period and she ate less than I did. Maybe if she had eaten more she would have lost more? Doesn't that sound weird!!!!!!

[Cruzcrzy]

Steve, I am convinced without the support, encouragement and accountability of this site and board, I would not have made it this far! I am honored to journey alongside of you and I thank you for your support. I really appreciate that we've got some good dialogue going on here, and appreciate Paula and metq very much.
I am learning so much from all of you.
WTG with your wife losing too! It seeems we women lose about 1/2 what men do so I think it was a good loss. That is wonderful you are doing it together. I am surrounded by my dh eating junk food, but, it's his life. I wish he would be a little more concerned with his health especially with our age difference. He is 62 and I am 48. We've been married 28 years and I look forward to many, many more years together.

I was up and out early this morning for my walk. I love it while it is still dark, and nice and cool. I had to change my route a bit, but, it was a nice change. I went a little longer, and could tell my body was ready for the push. I am truly amazed and encouraged in the endurance I've built up just in the 3 weeks.

I resisted the amusement park food yesterday. We really had a good time and the weather was beautiful.

Have a good Monday all.

[fozzie99]

I'm married to an older woman! 23 months. Congratulations on 28 years.
This board and you guys have helped me so much. This has become my new hobby.

Day 42 W 334.2 1500cals 70% 24% 6% FPC.

Fat Fast may become a permanent feature!

[Cruzcrzy]

Hey Steve,

I bet that gain is water weight. You are still at a great weight from the fat flush. I had a good drop today(stats to the left), and it's my goal weight. I hope I can hang onto it. I will be a very happy camper to maintain this until my surgery in November. I was up and out early this morning for my walk, around 6am or so.

[fozzie99]

Goal weight that's fantastic!!!! I'm so far away I can't see the dark at the end of the tunnel.
Tomorrow I'm going to live on cream cheese and HWC as much as I need not to be hungry. If I could do straight butter I would.

[fozzie99]

Day 43 W 335.4 again!!! 77% 19% 4% FPC.
Upping fat to over 85% protein down carbs down.
Cream, Cream cheese and butter......maybe sneak a little smoked pork.

[fozzie99]

Day 44 W 334.2 2288cals really pigged but still a deficit. 78% 18% 4% FPC. A little unhappy with percentages.

[Cruzcrzy]

Hey Steve,

you are looking good. Are you fat flushing this weekend? I am holding steady, but, can't seem to hold onto the 148. I am 149.8, might as well say 150. It's okay. I am still well within my window. Now, I am just trying to figure out a way of eating to keep this weight off. I walked yesterday, but, not walking this morning. I have a appt. this morning. It's really cooled down here so I may walk this afternoon. I have no clothes for this weather. All my stuff is summer stuff. Time for coffee!
Have a good Friday.

[fozzie99]

Actually I started fat flush wed. I'll continue till I run out of cream cheese 2.5lbs left. I was doing well till late last night 7:30pm (thats late for me!). I was craving of all things broccoli!!! not a "craving" food in my book. I steamed around a cup then decided to add a little pork on the side......there goes the %s fat down carbs up I think the lack of protein is causing some pangs.
I've found after my first unsuccesful P3 mostly because I was afraid of screwing up. I've had no problem maintaining but I have to stay LC just up fat and protein until I'm comfortable. Just bought some shritaki noodles hope I like them if so found out how to make my own...much cheaper.

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by fozzie99

Just bought some shritaki noodles hope I like them if so found out how to make my own...much cheaper.

Do tell!

I have restarted my own rogue plan...am doing hcg Mon/Wed/Fri JUDDD style. Have only done two down days, but have lost almost all of my loading weight. Pretty happy about that!

[Cruzcrzy]

Paula,

Is that calorie cycling? I would love to know more specifically what you are doing. WTG with having almost lost your load weight. It took me forever in Round 2. In Round 1 I lost.