Simeons Protocol -- P3/P4 Week of 7/11/11

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by 1moretry

I ordered both of Bernstein's books ("The Diabetes Solution" and "The Diabetes Diet") after Jonny Bowden's comment that if he were diabetic, that is the program he'd be on. He also said Bernstein is the go-to guy for anything about diabetes.

Once I have read those books, I may take a look at the diabetes forums, but right now P3 and trying to sort all of this out is all I can handle.

My food allergies and autoimmune tendencies get in the way of everything else I might want to do, so I am working on those now, and eventually hope to understand what I can do across the board for all of this -- weight, diabetes, and feeling/functioning well again. The autoimmune tendency destroys my own hormones and neurotransmitters, so for example, even if my thyroid is putting out enough hormone, if I am destroying it, it won't be effective. Taking more hormone would not change that picture. I have to get at the root of the problem and get my system to stop doing what it's doing. Long story. My doctor suggested that I am destroying my own insulin when I last saw him, so that really messes me up, too.

Bernstein was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes (an autoimmune condition, BTW) at the age of 12 and that's what led him to take the path he took after that. From the reviews I saw of his books, his program does get the results I want to see, but until I see what the program actually is, I can't try it for myself. It would be incompatible with P2, so I will have to make a decision on which way to go after I see how he puts the pieces together. P2 is low-calorie, but it is not as low carb as Bernstein's program requires.

FWIW, in addition to Type 1 diabetes and situations like my generally overreactive immune system, MS and lupus are also autoimmune conditions. In MS, one destroys the myelin sheath that protects and shields their nerves, so the nerves can't send the signals they are designed to send to the muscles they communicate with.

Dr B is too strict for my DD. He allows for no fruit and gives you the exact number of carbs you should be eating and when along with the protein also. And there is no snacking. Too tough for my DD. She is only 10 and she cannot go without her fruit. If it were me, I would do whatever to save myself from the maladies that go hand in hand with diabetes. But I have lived a full life up until now and can do with the dietary changes. But with her we are trying to do what we can with the diabetes and the parameters of "let her be a normal child/have a normal childhood". Very difficult to do I tell ya But she is much more low carb than she was before March 16 of this year!! So far, she loves what I have been cooking for her. I have been a long time low carber (12 years this July!!) and know what we all should be eating. Getting my family on board is a whole other ordeal though. I hope you at least take a peak at that thread as they have some great food ideas you can glean while awaiting your books. No need to post--just poke around!! DD also has the antibodies for Hashimoto's and will be tested for Celiac disease so we know that she has the tendency for other autoimmune issues. My poor baby...wish it were me and not her

[mokih]

on day 12 of p4 - I have been traveling since the first day of P4,l and tried to stay on protocol most of the time, but my 3 days in Seattle weren't AT ALL.

I was dreading the scale when I got home, but yesterday I was only 3# over LDW. I ate pretty clean yesterday (not much food in the house!), and today I am only 1.8# over.

Definitely going to the grocery store today, need fresh fruits and veggies!

loving the hcg thing

[jabbok]

Originally Posted by catkin

It was 142 but I took it and ran instead of staying there a few days, so I went up, up up and now have finally come back down. Seems like that happened in R1, too. My appetite has not been big at all! I open the fridge and it's meh---nothing looks good I'm trying to figure out if this is a good thing or not

When I finished P2 my weight stayed around the 144.8 so that is why I moved into P3, my weight went down the 1st 2 days of P3 then kept climbing till I was at 148 I did an egg correction day which I lost 1 pound yesterday and then today I am down another 1.2 pounds bringing me back into my window. I will see how the next 2 days go to see if I stabilize I am on day 13 of P3 and trying so hard to keep close to ldw.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by jabbok

When I finished P2 my weight stayed around the 144.8 so that is why I moved into P3, my weight went down the 1st 2 days of P3 then kept climbing till I was at 148 I did an egg correction day which I lost 1 pound yesterday and then today I am down another 1.2 pounds bringing me back into my window. I will see how the next 2 days go to see if I stabilize I am on day 13 of P3 and trying so hard to keep close to ldw.

That is great Cindy!! Getting down and back in the window is great

[KelliC]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

DD also has the antibodies for Hashimoto's and will be tested for Celiac disease so we know that she has the tendency for other autoimmune issues. My poor baby...wish it were me and not her

Sad news but terrific that her doc's are staying on top of things. I have RA and when you have one autoimmune disorder you are predisposessed for more, forewarned is forearmed

[jabbok]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

That is great Cindy!! Getting down and back in the window is great

Thanks Dawn, it sure is alot of work in P3.

[jabbok]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Dr B is too strict for my DD. He allows for no fruit and gives you the exact number of carbs you should be eating and when along with the protein also. And there is no snacking. Too tough for my DD. She is only 10 and she cannot go without her fruit. If it were me, I would do whatever to save myself from the maladies that go hand in hand with diabetes. But I have lived a full life up until now and can do with the dietary changes. But with her we are trying to do what we can with the diabetes and the parameters of "let her be a normal child/have a normal childhood". Very difficult to do I tell ya But she is much more low carb than she was before March 16 of this year!! So far, she loves what I have been cooking for her. I have been a long time low carber (12 years this July!!) and know what we all should be eating. Getting my family on board is a whole other ordeal though. I hope you at least take a peak at that thread as they have some great food ideas you can glean while awaiting your books. No need to post--just poke around!! DD also has the antibodies for Hashimoto's and will be tested for Celiac disease so we know that she has the tendency for other autoimmune issues. My poor baby...wish it were me and not her

aw your poor little girl, she is going through so much right now hopefully things get worked out for her soon.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by KelliC

Sad news but terrific that her doc's are staying on top of things. I have RA and when you have one autoimmune disorder you are predisposessed for more, forewarned is forearmed

Kelli

I am sorry for that. My friend from college has RA--the one that makes you deformed over time. Her hands and feet do not look good at all. She is having such trouble. My co-worker has just been diagnosed with RA and he has the "non-deforming" one---that is how he put it But he limps all around the store, his knee is really bad. I feel badly for him because I know how rough it is. I didn't realize there were different types of RA.

[nmbnancy]

Just stopping by, been so busy lately. Hoping everyone is feeling good and enjoying P3/P4.
Stayed quite stable in P3 didn't need a correct day, so after 3 weeks have moved on to P4. I am now at a loss as to what to do, as I am perfectly happy eating on P3. The one thing I have been doing is eating more meats and fish that have been marinated, so there are hidden sugars there and have added a few vodkas. I will in time think about some starches.
I still think I might do a short second round, as I believe a loss of 6-8lbs is realistic for my frame.

[LaraSuzz]

I am going to have a coffee and bacon day today just to see what happens, lol. I will keep you posted.

[dazygyrl]

Originally Posted by LaraSuzz

I am going to have a coffee and bacon day today just to see what happens, lol. I will keep you posted.

that won't be too much salt??

good luck!

[KelliC]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Kelli

I am sorry for that. My friend from college has RA--the one that makes you deformed over time. Her hands and feet do not look good at all. She is having such trouble. My co-worker has just been diagnosed with RA and he has the "non-deforming" one---that is how he put it But he limps all around the store, his knee is really bad. I feel badly for him because I know how rough it is. I didn't realize there were different types of RA.

I had never heard that either. I'm going on 20 years with it. Lots of joint damage but the deformaties are still fairly mild I'm thrilled to still have hands that look mostly normal. My feet are a different story lol

[KelliC]

I've done something that somewhat scares me I've had the bread on half of a 6in sub with no effect. I figured since I'm down a pound- today would be the day to try eating a whole 6in bread and all. I've eaten it already, it's too late to change my mind-- hopefully all will be well in the morning lol

[LaraSuzz]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

that won't be too much salt??

good luck!

Good point, I hope not but the coffee acts as a diuretic, lol.

[MaryMouse49]

my gy correction day worked back to .4 over ldw. no more cd days for me. I do not want to gain weight loading this weekend any tips for that.? anyone else going back into p2 next week. My second round can't wait to loose the spare tire. LOL

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by MaryMouse49

my gy correction day worked back to .4 over ldw. no more cd days for me. I do not want to gain weight loading this weekend any tips for that.? anyone else going back into p2 next week. My second round can't wait to loose the spare tire. LOL

Yay

For no gains during loading, eat high fat!! Now you have a good handle on good high fat eating, right? Lots of eggs with butter for breakfast, coconut oil (I get in 6 TBL on a loading day ), cream cheese--can be made into cheesecake or just slathered on stuff, cheeseburgers with no bun...that sort of thing. Just the proteins with fat and no carbs. You can do it!! That is how I loaded for my first round. Now, I did gain weight but by VLCD#2 all was gone so no worries

[1moretry]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Dr B is too strict for my DD. He allows for no fruit and gives you the exact number of carbs you should be eating and when along with the protein also. And there is no snacking. Too tough for my DD. She is only 10 and she cannot go without her fruit. If it were me, I would do whatever to save myself from the maladies that go hand in hand with diabetes. But I have lived a full life up until now and can do with the dietary changes. But with her we are trying to do what we can with the diabetes and the parameters of "let her be a normal child/have a normal childhood". Very difficult to do I tell ya But she is much more low carb than she was before March 16 of this year!! So far, she loves what I have been cooking for her. I have been a long time low carber (12 years this July!!) and know what we all should be eating. Getting my family on board is a whole other ordeal though. I hope you at least take a peak at that thread as they have some great food ideas you can glean while awaiting your books. No need to post--just poke around!! DD also has the antibodies for Hashimoto's and will be tested for Celiac disease so we know that she has the tendency for other autoimmune issues. My poor baby...wish it were me and not her

The doctor who originally treated me for my immune system issues is actually a pediatrician who got into the whole environmental/immune system question because in treating her patients (children), she found that everyone in their family had similar issues. What she observed was that each succeeding generation would be more affected than the previous one, and I have come across references along those lines in other sources. Those other sources attributed this to environmental factors -- poisons in our air, food, water and indoor pollution from formaldehydes, plastics, and other chemical sources. In other words, with each generation, the effects of these environmental toxins are cumulative and it may just be that your daughter is one of those affected in this way.

Diet is certainly one factor; eating only organic foods is a way to minimize the damage, but there is a whole lot more than that to healing an immune system that is out of whack. Polyester in anything puts formaldehyde into the bloodstream and thence to every cell in the body. Auto exhaust, wood smoke, and chlorinated water are also detrimental. The list for what needs to go in living a non-toxic lifestyle is very long. Your daughter's situation is probably more complicated than just picking what carbs she can eat.

I was disabled for 9 years and unable to work at all until I took the many hard steps needed to recover function. Over time, though, while I am not sick like I was, my autoimmune problems have come back as well as all of my food allergies, so I need to address those again.

One of the people who wrote a "negative" review about Bernstein's program said that there was no way he was going to tell his 10-year old son that he could never eat bread again, etc. He concluded that he had to find another way to help his son and I hope he does. However, being that a person with Type 1 diabetes loses their ability to produce insulin means that they will have to supply external insulin to process the foods that they DO eat. Not a happy prospect for anyone, let alone a child, but there are children with other conditions (hemophilia comes to mind) that also have to live within the parameters of their bodies.

I hear you and I can sympathize with having to tell a child that they aren't like other children and to place such restrictions on them for the rest of their life. All I know at this point is that from what I have read, Bernstein's program has worked for everyone who tried it and posted about it on Amazon. I did not see one review from anyone who had tried the program that gave it less than 5 stars. The only "negative" reviews were from people who rejected the program out of hand and decided it was "too hard."

How much wiggle room is there for someone with Type 1 diabetes? I don't know enough about the question to know the answer to that. The naturopath I was seeing in Montana was a Type 1 diabetic. He was on an insulin pump, had to pop glucose tablets periodically while I was in his office and an alarm went off to warn him that his glucose had gotten too low, and he was not able to help me with my Type 2 diabetes. The alternatives for me are getting fewer, so if it takes a program like Bernstein's (or any other dietary approach that works to control my diabetes without medications) for me to achieve normal blood sugar levels, I will have to follow it for the rest of my life -- at least that is my present understanding.

I would not want to give up all fruit because berries are such a good source of good nutrients, but if that's what it takes for me to get well, I will. I am also seeing more and more about a Paleo/Primal approach that eliminates dairy and am going to read up on that some more, too.

I feel for you and I do think your daughter has been dealt a heavy hand in life. I send you both a cyber hug and hope you sort things out in ways that you all can learn to live with.

[dawnyama]

Thanks 1more. You are very kind. I was saying that Dr B was indeed too hard for our DD to try out. But I totally think that you would do very well. Like I posted before, as adults we understand the link between food and medical conditions better than children. We have sort of been there and done that. I can totally live within Dr B's parameters if I had to as well. I am glad I don't have to but if I were given the choice between losing feet and kidney function or following a plan where I could live long and with no harm done to my body, I would give up my fruit in a heartbeat!!! I want my DD to follow Dr B's program, but my DH is not so inclined. He is the one who is saying she has to live a "normal childhood". But he has to know that she is not and never will be normal. She has to stick her finger all the time and cannot just eat anything whenever anymore. I posted this perhaps when you were not around yet, because she was diagnosed in March of this year (and led me to do lousy on 2 rounds since and gain a lot of weight from the worry), but I have actually gotten into a heated discussion with her nutritionist about bananas. I told her that I didn't want Amy eating any bananas and she asked why? I said because they are full of sugar--almost the highest sugared fruit out there. Well we agreed to disagree on that one. We definitely don't see eye to eye on what she should be eating, but I am the parent and in charge of what she eats. The nutritionist can say what she wants, we do what we want!!! I wish you good luck and health and healing. I cannot even begin to imagine what you have been through. Cyber hugs back to you my friend. I am glad you have found a path to wellness and so glad that hcg is part of it!! I love the stuff and actually wish I could be on it all the time. It gives me a high that I have never felt before and sort of miss it when I go off it. Cannot wait for my next round!!

[1moretry]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Thanks 1more. You are very kind. I was saying that Dr B was indeed too hard for our DD to try out. But I totally think that you would do very well. Like I posted before, as adults we understand the link between food and medical conditions better than children. We have sort of been there and done that. I can totally live within Dr B's parameters if I had to as well. I am glad I don't have to but if I were given the choice between losing feet and kidney function or following a plan where I could live long and with no harm done to my body, I would give up my fruit in a heartbeat!!! I want my DD to follow Dr B's program, but my DH is not so inclined. He is the one who is saying she has to live a "normal childhood". But he has to know that she is not and never will be normal. She has to stick her finger all the time and cannot just eat anything whenever anymore. I posted this perhaps when you were not around yet, because she was diagnosed in March of this year (and led me to do lousy on 2 rounds since and gain a lot of weight from the worry), but I have actually gotten into a heated discussion with her nutritionist about bananas. I told her that I didn't want Amy eating any bananas and she asked why? I said because they are full of sugar--almost the highest sugared fruit out there. Well we agreed to disagree on that one. We definitely don't see eye to eye on what she should be eating, but I am the parent and in charge of what she eats. The nutritionist can say what she wants, we do what we want!!! I wish you good luck and health and healing. I cannot even begin to imagine what you have been through. Cyber hugs back to you my friend. I am glad you have found a path to wellness and so glad that hcg is part of it!! I love the stuff and actually wish I could be on it all the time. It gives me a high that I have never felt before and sort of miss it when I go off it. Cannot wait for my next round!!

Most nutritionists are trained toward the high-carb, low-fat lifestyle that has resulted in the obesity/diabetes epidemic we have seen since the FDA food pyramid was adopted, and there is a widening gulf between those who follow the low carb lifestyle and those who promote its opposite, despite the evidence that up to 40% of people benefit from eating low carb. I applaud your choice regarding bananas for your daughter. They are my husband's favorite food and he eats many pounds of them each week. He and his family have exactly the opposite response to carbs that I do: he burns any excess quickly, easily, has stable blood sugars, and never gains weight. When he had to do without them for ONE day because of our treating sugar in our allergy treatment approach, he looked like he had become skin and bones within 24 hours because he had not prepared any other carbs ahead of time and simply went without them. Bananas are wonderful for him, but one of the highest on the glycemic index.

I wish you all the best in working with your challenges as well as your daughter's. Noting that you are doing homepathic HCG, I wonder if that "high" feeling you describe might be due to the other homeopathic ingredients in your formula (if there are any) and whether they (without the HCG components) might benefit you for an actual course of treatment. I have not done well with conventional homeopathics, but have done well with other forms of energy medicine, such as what I am using for treating my allergies right now, so maybe you can find someone skilled in homeopathy to help you. I'll PM you with info on a clinic in Asheville that might be right for you.

[1moretry]

Checking in with a 1.0 loss and back within my window after doing a steak day yesterday. I would like to keep the number going down a bit each day, if possible, and not have to do another CD. I was very hungry and had trouble waiting to eat.

[shelbyla]

Down about a pound today and hoping to see the scale keep moving in that direction. A little dehydration and a WHOLE lot of muscle soreness from a yoga class on Monday combined to shoot me over the top yesterday. Right now sitting at LDW +0.5 (155'ish) and feeling ok with it. Good size for me, clothes fit well, seems to be relatively easy to maintain. Pondering a quick third round in August to see if I can shave off the last 10 but at 5'9 and a size 4/6, this may be it for me. In any case, I don't think I'll disappear from LCF like a lot of folks who are "done" with hcg. I need the accountability of posting my daily weight, my foods and my little indiscretions! Plus I LUVVVVV you guys...

[RedsSkinnyJeans]

Aww, shucks :-)

Glad you're here.

Still up one pound from my adjusted set point. Been here for about a week now. And I'm tellin' ya, it's STRESS. Good news is that I have been better about incorporating in carbs. Had baby potatoes yesterday, some bread, and even a couple of hubby's raviolis. Oh...and two cosmopolitans. SUGAR. (The enemy!)

Life is weird.

[mokih]

a question about correction days - do all of you do them during TOM, or just assume that you are retaining water?

I am a bit over my ldw window. I am having a bit of a RA flare and feeling swollen, which may also be contributing.

[moonriver]

I am such a chicken!!! No TOM yet and I am avoiding the scale....:blush: Can you say denial????

[Abby1983]

good morning everyone!

down .4 today after having 3 eggs with butter for breakfast, cheddar cheese, tea with half and half, lots of sour cream, salsa, chicken parm (homemade sauce, chicken without the breading) and a few SF popsicles. sooooo i am pretty happy

i went dress shopping yesterday evening for a couple upcoming weddings and i got a size 4 dress and size 4 capris!! i'm pretty sure it was vanity sizing (white house/black market), but i'll take it!

how's everyone else doing?

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by shelbyla

Down about a pound today and hoping to see the scale keep moving in that direction. A little dehydration and a WHOLE lot of muscle soreness from a yoga class on Monday combined to shoot me over the top yesterday. Right now sitting at LDW +0.5 (155'ish) and feeling ok with it. Good size for me, clothes fit well, seems to be relatively easy to maintain. Pondering a quick third round in August to see if I can shave off the last 10 but at 5'9 and a size 4/6, this may be it for me. In any case, I don't think I'll disappear from LCF like a lot of folks who are "done" with hcg. I need the accountability of posting my daily weight, my foods and my little indiscretions! Plus I LUVVVVV you guys...

We would be lost without you I am glad you are going to stay. Nice job and well done Shelby Easy to maintain--love it

[Abby1983]

Originally Posted by mokih

a question about correction days - do all of you do them during TOM, or just assume that you are retaining water?

I am a bit over my ldw window. I am having a bit of a RA flare and feeling swollen, which may also be contributing.

i would do one just to nip it in the bud. the doc says as soon as you go 2 pounds over your LDW you should. i had success with the GY correction day, and the yogurt cultures/calcium would prob make you feel better in TOM too!

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by mokih

a question about correction days - do all of you do them during TOM, or just assume that you are retaining water?

I am a bit over my ldw window. I am having a bit of a RA flare and feeling swollen, which may also be contributing.

I follow Dr Simeon's instruction on doing the Correction days. He doesn't allow for TOM, water retention or MIA bowel action, sodium retention or anything else. His instructions were simple--if you are up, do a steak day. Nothing else to it!! But there are others on here who do not feel as I do, so you choose what you feel comfortable doing.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by Abby1983

good morning everyone!

down .4 today after having 3 eggs with butter for breakfast, cheddar cheese, tea with half and half, lots of sour cream, salsa, chicken parm (homemade sauce, chicken without the breading) and a few SF popsicles. sooooo i am pretty happy

i went dress shopping yesterday evening for a couple upcoming weddings and i got a size 4 dress and size 4 capris!! i'm pretty sure it was vanity sizing (white house/black market), but i'll take it!

how's everyone else doing?

Congrats on the 4s WooHoo!!!!

I did a shake day yesterday and lost weight!! Down 1.6 to be exact. I chose the shake day because I had some coconut milk to use up before vacation this weekend. I am feeling so good right now!!! Planning on a good P3 day to get me on my way down before starting my round.

[LaraSuzz]

I had a 2.5 lb loss on my bacon correction day lol.

I had an iced sugarfree vanilla latte breve for breakfast and
8 slices of bacon

dinner: two small hamburger patties with american cheese
4 more slices of bacon

So if you stick to protein and a il cheese maybe it will work for you too.