hCG vs Atkins ketosis question PLEASE

[BarbInAL]

Hi all. Been trying to study hCG. Several questions never seem to be addressed and was hoping some here may be able to help me understand <I hope>.
For those here who have a history with Atkins ketosis can you please explain to me the difference between the dramtic loss of appetite when in ketosis on Atkins and the loss of appetite using hCG. Thanks bunches

[julieboolie]

I'm a long term Atkins girl and can try to answer your questions, from my own experience.

When I followed Simeon's protocol by the book, I wasn't in ketosis, not like in low carb. The bread and fruit kept me out of ketosis. I didn't experience dramatic hunger reduction that first 10days. After that it seems to have kicked in more and I wasn't as ravenous.

My second round I went more rogue and did it LC. I dropped the bread and fruit, and added some cream to my coffee. I had no appetite and think the combo of ketosis and hcg was the key.

My last round was the best hunger wise. I did the pellets and did my rogue LC plan. I have no appetite at all. It was the best reduced hunger I've experienced - more than hcg, or Atkins.

The thing w/ hhcg and appetitie reduction is that it seems to vary for everyone. Depending on how they load, if they're Rx or homeopathic, etc.
Many have great appetite reduction from day 1 on strict simeons. Def a YMMV thing.

I can tell you that I love Atkins and plan to maintain on LC the rest of my life. But, I could never get below a size 12/14. Even very strict for a long time. The hhcg appealed b/c it was 3 weeks of sacrifice. I figured I could do anything for 3 weeks. I'm so glad I did!!

[catkin]

HCG releases your stored fat into the bloodstream so you do not sense hunger (ideally). This is why we are only allowed 500 calories--because hundreds (not sure how many) of calories are already present as a result...clear as mud?

I'm fairly new to the hcg miracle but I'm certain others can better clarify the process.

Great question!

[CherylB]

My doc said that hhcg is a "forced ketosis" because it causes your body to release and burn fat for fuel. With Atkins, the ketosis is brought about through your diet. Makes sense to me and thankfully I'm one of those that has no problems with hunger. I did load well, but I think it is also because I do the pellets and not the drops.

[Zenngrl]

I was always in ketosis during the entire time I was taking the pellets. Sometimes deep purple, even with copious amounts of water and sometimes, just barely pink. It did NOT reduce appetite. The only thing that worked was taking less pellets than directed. My bottle says three, three times a day... I worked it down to two, three times a day and would skip a night dose once in awhile... that is when I got the best appetite supressant effect.

[catkin]

Originally Posted by Zenngrl

I was always in ketosis during the entire time I was taking the pellets. Sometimes deep purple, even with copious amounts of water and sometimes, just barely pink. It did NOT reduce appetite. The only thing that worked was taking less pellets than directed. My bottle says three, three times a day... I worked it down to two, three times a day and would skip a night dose once in awhile... that is when I got the best appetite supressant effect.

It's interesting, isn't it. Why do some do better on more and some better on less? Is it the strength/amount of the hcg that is in different brands?
This question haunts me

I've had more hunger this round than my entire first one. I do realize that each round will not always be the same experience.

[catjrow3]

I am never in ketosis on hcg... I never really hit ketosis in Atkin's either, although I only tried for a couple of weeks. If I ever got any, it was fainting pink... I always was troubled and still sometimes (I dont eat the fruit or the breadstick) and still am not in ketosis, why is that??? LOL

[CherylB]

Hasn't hurt you none! I have no idea why that would be, but with those results, who cares?

[catjrow3]

Well, I would say they are slow results (although I will take them) but I dont understand the science of how some do and some dont... KWIM??

[torister]

Atkins fan as well here. Just to clarify....ketosis is one of those either you are in it or you aren't. It doesn't matter what color the stick is....just that it has changed. I haven't tested to see if I am in ketosis while following protocol. I don't really care one way or the other as I am not hungry physically at all.

[Marina_7]

I was an Atkins girl for a long time too.
I have been in ketosis ever since P2D2... I do test on the strips just becuz it makes me feel good to see it.. But I can always tell by the "keto breath" and also the energy that never ends!!!

[catkin]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

I am never in ketosis on hcg... I never really hit ketosis in Atkin's either, although I only tried for a couple of weeks. If I ever got any, it was fainting pink... I always was troubled and still sometimes (I dont eat the fruit or the breadstick) and still am not in ketosis, why is that??? LOL

Face it Cat, we're just special

[catkin]

Originally Posted by torister

Atkins fan as well here. Just to clarify....ketosis is one of those either you are in it or you aren't. It doesn't matter what color the stick is....just that it has changed. I haven't tested to see if I am in ketosis while following protocol. I don't really care one way or the other as I am not hungry physically at all.

I was always a little thrilled when I saw the purple.:blush:

[catkin]

Originally Posted by Marina_7

I was an Atkins girl for a long time too.
I have been in ketosis ever since P2D2... I do test on the strips just becuz it makes me feel good to see it.. But I can always tell by the "keto breath" and also the energy that never ends!!!

Benjamin Moore has a new paint color called Ketosis Purple

[BarbInAL]

Thank you ALL for your replies. I am so HAPPY for everyone here who likes it and it doing well - WAY TO GO!!!!
hCG really does seem to be a YourMilesMayMary substance. I want to understand it. Information and science is not easy to find. Sales and promo stuff easy to find but research printed in medical journals - not so much.
Anyone hear of situations where doctors tell patients not to use hCG if they had any hormonally fed cancers in the past - examples being: breast, ovariain, uterine, endometrium, any male or female reproductive cancer???
Anyone hear of doctors saying don't do hCG if you are at high risk for endometrium cancers - like women with PCO or any hormone problem that causes decreased numbers of periods?
Again, thanks everybody!!

[catkin]

I keep waiting for some doctor to jump on the hcg bandwagon and take up where Dr. Simeons left off.

On an unrelated note, I'm also waiting for celebrities to hop on the hcg express, too. You know they already are--it's just not mainstream news yet. I bet Oprah will! It will go a long way to help the hcg cause when this happens. JMO

[catjrow3]

Originally Posted by catkin

Face it Cat, we're just special

So do you go into ketosis? I have never seen purple, ever...

[catkin]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

So do you go into ketosis? I have never seen purple, ever...

Used to...I only check once in a while on hhcg, though. Once or twice I was in large ketosis, other times pale pink. It's funny though, an apple will knock me right out

[CherylB]

Originally Posted by BarbInAL

Thank you ALL for your replies. I am so HAPPY for everyone here who likes it and it doing well - WAY TO GO!!!!
hCG really does seem to be a YourMilesMayMary substance. I want to understand it. Information and science is not easy to find. Sales and promo stuff easy to find but research printed in medical journals - not so much.
Anyone hear of situations where doctors tell patients not to use hCG if they had any hormonally fed cancers in the past - examples being: breast, ovariain, uterine, endometrium, any male or female reproductive cancer???
Anyone hear of doctors saying don't do hCG if you are at high risk for endometrium cancers - like women with PCO or any hormone problem that causes decreased numbers of periods?
Again, thanks everybody!!

I have no clue about that one. I guess you can check with an Oncologist if you were really interested in finding out.

"BarbInAl" sounds like a narcotic!

[catjrow3]

Originally Posted by catkin

Used to...I only check once in a while on hhcg, though. Once or twice I was in large ketosis, other times pale pink. It's funny though, an apple will knock me right out

I am not eating the fruit or the melba this round and still if anything at all, light pink!! Oh well... I suppose it does not matter, but I would love to see DEEP Purple at least once!! LOL

[CherylB]

I had my very old keto strips. I tried them once since starting hcg and I saw immediately that they had long-since stopped being sensitive chemically. I tossed them in the trash and was going to buy some fresh ones, but I didn't bother. I really don't like those things, anyway. I always "make a mess." And the only time my strips have had that satisfying deep color was when I was a little dehydrated.

What was said before is true. You can't be in a little ketosis, any more than you can be a little pregnant!

[paulabob]

Originally Posted by catjrow3

I am not eating the fruit or the melba this round and still if anything at all, light pink!! Oh well... I suppose it does not matter, but I would love to see DEEP Purple at least once!! LOL

From what I understand...ketones are something you excrete depending on how much excess there is.

If your body is very efficient, and has spent long time periods in ketosis, it's less likely to need to excrete a lot of ketones.

And *where* it's excreted can seem to vary from person to person, with some people noticing the breath thing more, others noticing body odors more, and others smelling that urine change (not to be too gross).

I have been in ketosis *mostly* for almost 5 years...I've never done the strips but don't think they'd be dark purple at this point, no matter what I ate or if I was fasting. My body is set to run on ketones for the most part. It's physiologically normal, and no reason for my body to shed the fuel it is running on. I think your body is also quite used to running on ketones....

That's just my theory...I've read various things about ketones, and some of the info is conflicting.

[LilacBruze]

Originally Posted by catkin

Benjamin Moore has a new paint color called Ketosis Purple

NO WAY!

[minimonkey]

Originally Posted by catkin

Benjamin Moore has a new paint color called Ketosis Purple

If that were true, I would have to paint a whole room in it, "just because"

I've been in and out of ketosis on this protocol, I think... I don't test for it, but as a way-long-time Atkinser, I can generally tell when I am in it...

I think fruit, even in moderate quantities, knocks me out of ketosis. Doesn't seem to affect the scale one way or the other for me... but I do need to eat more frequently if I am not in ketosis, and I don't have the constant energy levels that ketosis brings.

[C'Marie]

The only time I tested for ketosis while on the protocol was my 3rd round where I went "rogue" for awhile and used the choco-delite and macadamia nuts on and off-the deepest colors I had were 4-6 hours after ingesting those yummies. Those 2 things definitely put me in ketosis. As a possibly related issue, I had trouble stabilizing after that round, so I did not continue using those two items in subsequent rounds. Definitely a YMMV kinda thing.

[snaggle]

I just had to post because I am laughing so hard at that Benjamin moore ketosis purple color comment.
I own a benjamin moore paint and decorating store and do color consulting for a living. We are always making fun of the stupid paint color names at work and we frequently make up colors and give them goofy names (usually food/drink related).

This is a great thread. I am on my first day of loading today and having come from a low carb/juddd dieting background, I am very anxious to have success with hcg. I am such a slow loser and am hoping to speed up the results with this plan. I will be visiting and hopefully posting on some of the other hcg threads, but this one caught my eye first!
Anyway, thanks for the laugh.

[RedsSkinnyJeans]

Originally Posted by BarbInAL

Information and science is not easy to find. Sales and promo stuff easy to find but research printed in medical journals - not so much.
Anyone hear of situations where doctors tell patients not to use hCG if they had any hormonally fed cancers in the past - examples being: breast, ovariain, uterine, endometrium, any male or female reproductive cancer???
Anyone hear of doctors saying don't do hCG if you are at high risk for endometrium cancers - like women with PCO or any hormone problem that causes decreased numbers of periods?

Hi Barb,

As a confirmed research-aholic, I agree completely. Were it not for the fact that I have about a dozen REALLY well informed, SHARP friends, half of them who come from a medical background who have completed HCG and gone another year with the weight off, I'm sure I wouldn't be here. Additionally, these folks are the careful, conservative type.

I did lose out because I waited a year and more before starting, but I have long, nightmarish stories with diets going back like 25 years. Pardon me if I was hesitant to believe.

I, too, wish there was more dependable, medically respected information. (My dream is a stellar recommendation from New England Journal of Medicine, but hey - then I'm sure the price of HCG would skyrocket and sometimes in our capitalistic society that can also mean the quality also goes down....)

For now, though, the answer to your question is no, I haven't heard of any such information, but will keep my eyes open!

[dawnyama]

And here is a post about ketosis.

[Arctic_Mama]

You're such a good digger, Dawn

[metqa]

Hey, Dawn, you are all over the place lately!

I've been thinking about these ketosis questions coming up and I think that our vocabulary might have been off all this time.

Someone mentioned that HCG produces a forced ketosis, but I don't think that is accurate. I think it is a forced lypolysis, because ketosis is the burning of fat because there is little to no glucose available. Ketosis is when there is a lot of lypolysis and ketones in excess.

I think they are similar because in dietary ketosis you trigger it with low sugar intake and the body is in sugar deficit and turns to fat that leads to weight loss because the body is burning fat and protein to make sugar;

The body will not naturally burn fat until sugar is either burned or stored as fat. Glycogen is used next and then the body turns to fat to keep running. This cycle happens every day from meal to fast to meal to fast.

With HCG it's a hormonal trigger to burn fat because, though we are still taking in sugar and starch, the body is also burning fat because it does NOT want there to be a deficit. But then we create the deficit by lowering calories and that leads to weight loss.

So I think that people on HCG may or may not be in Ketosis depending on how they eat their fruit and toast, and how the body reacts and how quickly the dietary carb is burned away each day. Plus depending on the fruit and starch, a person may not be getting enough carbs to affect lypolysis under normal conditions, so then they will be in a ketosis favorable state anyway.

So Atkins is dietary ketosis triggered by sugar deficit and increased Lypolysis to compensate and fuel glucose generation to maintain BS. Ketones are wasted and weight is lost.

Simeons is Hormonal lypolysis despite dietary sugar intake and increased lypolysis to prevent deficit.