The HCGers exercise thread

[minimonkey]

I hope there will be a wonderful end to the story, Nola -- and I admire your willingness to delve into the scary parts of the self and see what dwells there -- that takes a lot of courage!

I am at something of a standstill this week -- I decided to shoot for moderate fat fasts until TOM gets here in earnest (it sometimes takes a day or two to get started) and then see if I can manage to transition to near-protocol once it is winding down--

I'll be happy if I can just end TOM at 105 or a little lower -- that would mean losing the TOM weight plus any that I might have gained from the refeed days.

I don't know if I have it in me to do protocol or not at this point, but I'd still like to give it a go -- or at least part of me would like that.

I'll see where I stand after TOM and make a decision at that point.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I hope there will be a wonderful end to the story, Nola -- and I admire your willingness to delve into the scary parts of the self and see what dwells there -- that takes a lot of courage!

I am at something of a standstill this week -- I decided to shoot for moderate fat fasts until TOM gets here in earnest (it sometimes takes a day or two to get started) and then see if I can manage to transition to near-protocol once it is winding down--

I'll be happy if I can just end TOM at 105 or a little lower -- that would mean losing the TOM weight plus any that I might have gained from the refeed days.

I don't know if I have it in me to do protocol or not at this point, but I'd still like to give it a go -- or at least part of me would like that.

I'll see where I stand after TOM and make a decision at that point.

Hi Mini

It sounds like a good idea to wait till the end of TOM and see where you are and how you feel. It would not surprise me if you dropped lower than 105.

I am still self-delving! lol..
But I think the main shift happened a couple of days back with insights around "not deserving".
I feel there has been a turn in the tide since then.

I have uncovered a bit more stuff-
feelings of being unlovable,
some mother related conditioning;
ie
" it is not okay to be lean or skinny" , (and at the same time it is not okay to gain weight or have extra weight on),
my mother gave us some really twisted messages ?? lol..
"its not okay to have what you want"
"you cant always have what you want"
"you shouldnt have what you want!"
-and some similar related stuff around self denial and self suppression in life..

I am still doing the same diet for now- low carb with a carb feed-up every 5 days or so.
I eat as many calories as I feel from day to day- which ends up to be a fairly average intake right now.

I will see if my body starts dropping fat or not- whether the inner shift is going to start being mirrored by the outer?

I am contemplating whether to do the Martin Berkham leangains plan or not - with the eating window between 1-9, and fasting 9-1.
It looks like an interesting change, though I am in no hurry to make any abrupt physical changes yet.
I need to finish the inner stuff first and then see what is gelling.

To tell the truth- I dont know if it is so much courage - in terms of looking at the inward stuff - as having been forced into a position where I have to look at it,
and knowing that if I dont deal with it it is going to come back to slap me in the face again in another month , year, or two years, or whenever it happens!

My emoticons wont work tonight?
Well then, good night..

[minimonkey]

I think I have a lot of the same messages as you do, Nola, stored in my unconscious. I am gently starting to look into them... it isn't the first time I've done this, but I am using a somewhat different approach this time...

I hope your eating plan coupled with your new insights gives you the results you want! I will also be very interested to see what you think of the leangains approach if you try it... I got nowhere with it, personally, but that doesn't mean a thing about anyone else's experience....

I hope you are right about dropping below 105 -- we'll see. TOM never really showed... I got a little spotting, but it doesn't appear I am going to bleed -- just having the hormone surge. I am not sure what to make of that, but I suspect the symptoms will be gone in a few days. I hope so -- I feel pretty bloated right now.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I think I have a lot of the same messages as you do, Nola, stored in my unconscious. I am gently starting to look into them... it isn't the first time I've done this, but I am using a somewhat different approach this time...

I hope your eating plan coupled with your new insights gives you the results you want! I will also be very interested to see what you think of the leangains approach if you try it... I got nowhere with it, personally, but that doesn't mean a thing about anyone else's experience....

I hope you are right about dropping below 105 -- we'll see. TOM never really showed... I got a little spotting, but it doesn't appear I am going to bleed -- just having the hormone surge. I am not sure what to make of that, but I suspect the symptoms will be gone in a few days. I hope so -- I feel pretty bloated right now.

Hi Mini

It seems good that you are looking inside. Its not the first time I have done it either, but there seem to be many levels and layers to this issue - at least for me.

What approach are you taking?
I have been using, going into a meditative state, affirmations, and some EFT (emotional freedom techniques- tapping on acupressure points while using phrases that fit the situation)

This morning the bit that came up was that this feeling that my Mum transferred to me around being lean/skinny-
which was a kind of ambiguous, unformed negative emotional impression;
had kind of communicated itself to my body as being that skinny or lean was a scary/unsafe state.
So I did a bit of EFT on that, and talking to my body -
accepting the scaredness, and that its okay to feel that -
but that it is also ok, and safe, and acceptable , to be lean!

Interesting that you didnt get anywhere with leangains- though not wholly surprising.
I dont think its magic, though it may definitely have superior points to other systems out there.
And maybe a longer fast period each day is preferable to eating morning till night?? I havent tried it so I cant say yet.
From a purely mechanical point of view, if you can stick to the fast period without getting overly hungry-
then it is a way to more easily eat less calories every day.
Still mulling it over in my mind.
I have been a morning eater forever and a day!

I hope your weight does do a bit of a drop- you have deserved it!
I read that you are having signs of fat loss (on the other thread), and are eating more cals;
which seems good!
I think your body could do with a bit of feeding - scary though it can be in terms of risking a gain.

[minimonkey]

I'm trying something rather similar, Nola -- trying to really tune into my body in a semi-meditative state, and when I notice a discomfort or sense a block -- or when I reach a "problem area" in my body, seeing if there are feelings or words associated with it. I've never tried the EFT --- I've read a little bit about it, and I know some people find it very effective.

With Leangains/IF, I only ate in the mornings, generally --- I first tried the fast 5 approach, and then I tried doing a 2 hour eating window, and 22 hours fasted, regularly. Nada. I rather liked it, but I didn't lose anything from it.

I'm freaking out with fear tonight, actually -- I am super bloated (hormones, I am guessing, though TOM still never really showed) -- and I feel like a whale. So, in my mind, suddenly I have gained 10 lbs, and am about to lose control completely, etc.... all the irrational thoughts that tend to come up about this stuff.

I was feeling leaner (as I posted) -- but today I am feeling like a beached whale -- I know most of it is water retention/inflammation, but it is still freaking me out.

As much as I know you are probably right about me needing to eat for a bit, the anxiety is overwhelming me right now, so I am heading into a week of meat and veggies, and minimal amounts of fruit -- something rather like protocol. I am going to be pretty lenient with the protein, and I will add some coconut oil if I start getting run down...

I'm not getting on the scale until the hormonal weirdness is over, and until I have been on the protein/veggie plan for a few days.

I'm actually considering trying the non-homeopathic hcg, in drop form -- and if I do that, I will do protocol. My partner and roommate would freak if I injected anything non-medicinal, so I can't even consider doing the injections... but the drops I could do and no one would notice, most likely.

It might be worth a try -- I am going to do some reading on it. There is another board that I read once in a while, and there is a thread of people using the hormonal drops.

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I'm freaking out with fear tonight, actually -- I am super bloated (hormones, I am guessing, though TOM still never really showed) -- and I feel like a whale. So, in my mind, suddenly I have gained 10 lbs, and am about to lose control completely, etc.... all the irrational thoughts that tend to come up about this stuff.

I know these feelings exactly!!! and have been struggling with similar for the last 3 weeks or so.
And in my case I was manifesting it to some degree by gaining.

It seemed to shift the other day when I did the most intense emotional work, and I started feeling different from the inside out;
ie, I didnt feel better because I got any thinner or looked any thinner or started a new diet plan that would give me the hope of becoming thinner; but something on the inner shifted and those particular feelings dissipated.

(I am not sure if I fully got the whole lot though- I dont think I did, something evaded me I think.
But for now, enough changed to make a big shift.)

I just had to sit with those feelings and sit with them- doing basically what you are describing, in the meditative state, and trying to get through them somehow.
I felt like crap for days/weeks, felt powerless, and like I had lost a part of who I was, and had no power over my life and similar..

I had to accept the yucky feelings, and the fear- to the extent that I could- and it was at the point where I accepted and allowed the feelings and stopped resisting them, that they started to shift and improve and I got the insights..
The hardest bit was getting through the resistance to feeling these particular feelings and allowing them to be.

But even as I write, I know there was a part I didnt fully tap into, and I think its the bit around the fear, and getting bigger and bigger, and being out of control, and there's some bit about being afraid to look in the mirror when I am getting fatter and seeing the reality of what I am fearing . For some reason that is a horrendous thing for me!

Theres something big there under that lot for me..

It sounds a lot like you are already good at this kind of processing Mini, and its also kind of similar to what you described about dealing with pain- becoming the pain, or going into it..
its just getting past the resistance and fear, and to the point of allowing and accepting,
I am having to talk to myself here - because I am not fully there yet !

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

I'm trying something rather similar, Nola -- trying to really tune into my body in a semi-meditative state, and when I notice a discomfort or sense a block -- or when I reach a "problem area" in my body, seeing if there are feelings or words associated with it. I've never tried the EFT --- I've read a little bit about it, and I know some people find it very effective.

With Leangains/IF, I only ate in the mornings, generally --- I first tried the fast 5 approach, and then I tried doing a 2 hour eating window, and 22 hours fasted, regularly. Nada. I rather liked it, but I didn't lose anything from it.

I'm freaking out with fear tonight, actually -- I am super bloated (hormones, I am guessing, though TOM still never really showed) -- and I feel like a whale. So, in my mind, suddenly I have gained 10 lbs, and am about to lose control completely, etc.... all the irrational thoughts that tend to come up about this stuff.

I was feeling leaner (as I posted) -- but today I am feeling like a beached whale -- I know most of it is water retention/inflammation, but it is still freaking me out.

As much as I know you are probably right about me needing to eat for a bit, the anxiety is overwhelming me right now, so I am heading into a week of meat and veggies, and minimal amounts of fruit -- something rather like protocol. I am going to be pretty lenient with the protein, and I will add some coconut oil if I start getting run down...

I'm not getting on the scale until the hormonal weirdness is over, and until I have been on the protein/veggie plan for a few days.

I'm actually considering trying the non-homeopathic hcg, in drop form -- and if I do that, I will do protocol. My partner and roommate would freak if I injected anything non-medicinal, so I can't even consider doing the injections... but the drops I could do and no one would notice, most likely.

It might be worth a try -- I am going to do some reading on it. There is another board that I read once in a while, and there is a thread of people using the hormonal drops.

I have many times in my life responded to the fear and feeling of overwhelm (associated with gain, or possible/potential gain),
by getting on a diet, or a new diet, or something similar;
and then when I would start to lose weight, or have the possibility of losing weight, comes some relief from those feelings-
but only until the next cycle!
At some point, the cycle repeats and you have to face all those feelings again.

I fully understand going for an external answer, ie, a different or better diet, so that you can temporarily escape those feelings;
but in the end the only long term answer has to be to face the feelings and
find how to dissipate them at their origin.
(talking to myself again)

Just do your best for the here and now, and if that means trying a new dietary approach to get through for now, do it..

I can kind of imagine that I might have similar results if I tried all those intermittent fasting approaches.
My sense is that the main advantage for me in it, would be that fasting for half a day or so would simply be a useful way to eat less calories in any given day,
particularly if I wanted to compensate for a large eating day.

EFT can be good, I have used it sometimes intensively and sometimes not at all.
Sometimes all that tapping can get in the way, and sometimes when I need to go really deep and have to be super sensitive and in tune, too much mental focusing on words and phrases can block that.
Alternatively, there are times when using phrases/words and tuning into what phrases and words feel right , can help clarify issues, and bring conceptual/mental understanding.
Sometimes in a meditative state I feel something shift, and have no clue what it is, and its not till later that some mental understandings might filter through, or not..

I hope you will feel better soon and get through this

[minimonkey]

Nola ---

What you are saying really, really speaks to me right now!

Yes, this whole process is very similar to the mindfulness training that I described using with pain -- except that the pain training is limited to accepting one particular physical sensation rather than dredging up a whole mess of emotional baggage -- although that does bring up a lot of feelings of body betrayal, helplessness, sense of self in the world, old events, etc. too.

I am definitely looking for an external solution right now -- hence the new eating plan, the wanting to order non-homeopathic hcg, etc.

The external solution at least gives me the illusion of control, which I think I need. It may not be the answer, but it alleviates the anxiety I feel to a certain degree.

[minimonkey]

I have a lot of emotional templates around virtue and suffering, sacrifice, self-denial, etc. -- I seem to need suffering in some fundamental way.

There are times it is appropriate -- like, in the gym, when temporary suffering does lead to progress, and pain is just a necessary part of what one is doing. There are other times that it is counter-productive at best, and I think I engage in a lot of that -- not just related to eating and the body, but to relationships in general, and so forth.

On that very note, I just (now, literally, in the middle of typing this post -- I am not kidding!) called my therapist and said I'd like to start coming in again -- I'd been on a hiatus due to financial and time reasons, as well as hitting a big wall of resistance -- and I think I need some help if I am going to do this process.

It is incredibly helpful to be able to process through it here, too!!!!!

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

I am glad you called your therapist. Sometimes we need all the help we can get. I hope she(?) will be able to help with some breakthroughs.

We had a lot of programming in my family around suffering, self-denial and self-sacrifice, (very religious upbringing);
its not a very helpful template to have! -especially when it manifests as pain and struggle in your life.
There must be better ways.
My oldest sister seems to have copped it the worst, because she is living it so intensely- maybe I escaped it more being a middle child,
I am able to be more laid back.

I have tried to go into pain at times and accept it- I have found that hard, and have not been too successful..
I am more practised at doing the emotional side.

Sometimes an external solution is useful just to get you through and into a better state to be able to deal with something;
but the downside being that the negative feelings tend recede then and it is harder to correctly access them.

I am finding it really good to talk about this stuff here too..
It helps to get things out in the open and talk about them, and sometimes brings clarity.

[minimonkey]

Nola -- I am glad I called my therapist, too. I see a male therapist -- a psychoanalyst, actually -- he's very much the surrogate for the father I never had.

He's pretty traditional in a lot of ways, and he's really excellent. I've known him for over 20 years (he was my professor years ago) -- and he has been my analyst on and off since 1995 - so he knows me exceptionally well. I've been feeling the need to go back for a while, so I think it is definitely time.

[nola baxter]

Well, I think I really hit gold this morning when I started tapping.

With EFT I just tap the main accupressure points around the face, collarbone and under arm/breast,
then say the phrases that come to mind and gel/feel right,
and as the emotion and energy changes , I just keep changing the phrases and words to fit the new feeling.
So it is a very flowing process.

I started tapping on feeling fat, on being fat, and on being hungry and wanting to eat,
then impressions of my mother came up- and the emotional feelings around weight that she imparted to us-
that gaining weight was a deeply negative thing, that getting fat was bad, and that you were a non-person when you were fat, and that if you were fat, or getting fat, you werent allowed to eat,
that gaining weight was a horrifying and unacceptable state
that I was unacceptable , and an unacceptable person if I gained weight
that is was not ok to gain weight
and so on..

I had a big eating day yesterday, and so thought this morning that I would do a half fast day, and then a half-carb up day ;
making it a lower calorie day, to compensate and avoid potential gain.
So I had made this pudding first thing- which was to eat at midday-
then I went back to bed to do some tapping.
But I was hungry, and wanted to dive into the pudding and eat it right then and there-
but then the other part of me was saying, if you eat this pudding here and now you will get fat- or risk getting fat.
So I was having this internal war of; being hungry and having the instinct to eat right then and there,
and the fearful part of me saying no, this is bad , you will get fat etc.

So I started tapping on this stuff; (it went something like this)
even though I am going to get fat if I eat this pudding, I deeply and completely love and accept myself,
even though I am going to get fat, I deeply and completely love and accept myself,
even though if I eat I right now I am going to get fat
even though I am going to get very fat..
even though I will get fatter and fatter..
even though I am fat..
even though it is disgusting to be fat..
even though I will be a disgusting person..
even though I am not allowed to eat when I am fat..
even though it is not okay to eat when I am gaining weight..
even though it is not okay to eat when you are fat..
even though you shouldnt eat when you are fat..
even though you dont deserve to eat when you are fat!..
even though it is bad to be fat..
even though you are bad if you gain weight..
even though you are bad when you are fat..

All the while I am tapping on this stuff I am remembering my mother and the things she would say and the impressions she imparted about being fat and eating, and so on;
then I started to remember being hungry, and wanting more food, but my mother saying things like-
"you will get fat if you eat more", or "you shouldnt eat any more"
or " you dont really need any more", or, "it is better not to eat any more",
and the kind of disapproval that would eminate that if I ate this food it was not a good thing,
and that I was choosing to be a badder person (and a fat person), by eating the food..

So I started tapping around this;
even though I am hungry and want to eat I deeply and completely accept myself ..
even though I am hungry and I shouldnt eat, I deeply and completely love and accept myself,
even though I am hungry and I will get fat if I eat, I love and accept myself,
even though it is bad to eat, I accept myself,
even though I will get fat if I eat this, I love and accept myself..
even though I get fat, i love and accept myself..
even though I am a bad person if I eat this, I love and accept myself..
even though I become a fat person, I love and accept myself..
even though I cant trust my hunger I love and accept myself..
even though I cant believe in my hunger I love and accept myself..
even though its not safe and ok to eat when I am hungry...
even though my hunger is wrong and bad!,I love and accept myself and my hunger...
even though I cant allow my hunger,and I will get fat, I love and accept myself..
even though I will get fat if I allow my hunger..
even though I dont want to get fat but I want to eat I deeply and completely love and accept myself..
I love and accept myself and my hunger and my choice to eat even though it means I will get fat..
I love and accept myself and my hunger, and my choice to eat, even though it means I am a bad person..

At this point I was starting to get the understanding that I had bought the idea that I couldnt trust my hunger, and that if I allowed myself to feel and allow my hunger and embrace/follow it,
I would get fat, and would be a bad person (because fat = bad, and sinful, in my mothers world);
with the mental/emotional follow through being that I felt I had to resist and control my hunger -
and because "what you resist persists"- this meant my hunger actually had more power, by virtue of the fact that I was trying to control and suppress it.

Then I started tapping around accepting my hunger , and allowing it-
even if it meant I would become a bad person, and be fat and ugly..

I felt I got to a place of certain clearance, and had tapped into quite a few underlying beliefs,
and felt free to get up and eat,
since as I had come to the point of realising that my constriction around eating was more fear and denial than anything positive.

Then I went back to bed and fell into the deepest sleep during which I dreamed I was vacuuming around a very old big concrete house,
and was gettting ready to stop when my Mother said;
"you missed this part, and that part"- she points high up to the corners in the
windows where there are cobwebs, and shows me..
I am like,grrr, I am tired and I cant be bothered.. but I do it anyway, and then as I do I see more windows and more cobwebs that need vacuuming;
then I look up on a high wardrobe where there is some junk that needs clearing and cleaning around, and I think - I dont feel like it, another time,
so I give it a cursory going over and leave it..
Then I dream I have effluent coming out of my nose and mouth;
I think I need to blow my nose and then suddenly lots of stuff is coming out, then dribbling out of my mouth too,
in an uncontrolled fashion..

Kind of pertinent..lol

I feel there is more;
I still have this strong connection between eating food and feeling it is going to make me fat (unless of course it is all under a controlled diet situation);
so I am going to work on that..
It seems that if you feel food and eating is going to make you fat- that it will become so.
And the reality I want to manifest is that I can eat freely and normally, without thought, and be the leanness that I want.

[nola baxter]

Phew.. long post I know.
Apologies to all those to whom it is not relevant..
and hopefully to some it is

[minimonkey]

Wow, Nola -- I can't begin to describe the intense discomfort I felt reading those phrases -- talk about striking a chord!!!!!!!!!!

Your dream is absolutely priceless -- it couldn't be more perfectly pertinent if you had tried to make it up.

I have a lot of those negative messages too -- my mom was never overly critical about weight, but she herself has to struggle with it (and she does, successfully) and I think she passed along a lot of things without meaning to do so. I also did gain a lot of weight between third and fourth grade, and I think she was trying to help me shed that, but didn't know how.

She DID pass on a lot of negative messages about bodily desires in general, and about pleasure -- my mom carries a ton of baggage about sexuality, and I think a lot of that is stored in me as "bodily gratification is bad and dangerous" types of beliefs.

It sounds like you have made some major progress!!!!!!!!!!

[minimonkey]

Most of my baggage about "food will make you fat" comes from the media, and from coming of age in a time when rail-thin was the standard, and low-calorie, low-fat, and cardio promised to make you beautiful.

I've consciously shed a lot of those beliefs, but I still struggle with them....

AND -- when I get under about 110 lbs, I start struggling with fear and insecurity in a big way -- it brings up old, unresolved matters from when I was eating disordered, and in high school. I don't mean that it brings the old behaviors back -- thankfully, it doesn't, much -- but the old emotional material starts to surface, and it really scares me.

I think I literally buried a lot of that stuff under layers of fat, and it is frightening to get close to them again. It is as if there is trauma stored IN my body, and I am digging close to where it is buried. I think there is a lot of truth to that.

I've done a ton of talk-based emotional work on my abuse trauma, but not a lot of somatic-based work, and I think perhaps that is part of where I need to focus.

Are you familiar with a technique called EMDR?

[minimonkey]

Oh.... and the messages about the liability in having a good body, and worse yet showing it off... those messages I did get from my mom, and they are powerful and very contradictory.

I am literally shaking right now just thinking about this --- how strange, given that I've examined this stuff before, many times. I wonder what is different now?

[nola baxter]

I found these two bits of info I thought useful;

"You can get rock solid abs from Squatting and Deadlifting due to the isometric contraction to stabilize and take direct pressure off the spine, yet your abs won’t feel sore the next day. Do sit-ups and you’ll get very sore. It’s the concentric contractions that make you sore."

"Excluding the initial period of neuromuscular adaptation, if you progress with your poundages, for the same number of reps, under the same conditions (rest time between sets, etc.), you’re gaining muscle. Period."

So you can get abs without doing abs!
Pretty much what I thought/have seen..
And if you are increasing your weights, you are growing muscle!

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Oh.... and the messages about the liability in having a good body, and worse yet showing it off... those messages I did get from my mom, and they are powerful and very contradictory.

I am literally shaking right now just thinking about this --- how strange, given that I've examined this stuff before, many times. I wonder what is different now?

Maybe its opening up into deeper levels?

Its funny, I got similar stuff from my Mum.
And it was popping into my mind yesterday morning.
She had a big thing about not revealing your body or looking sexual in any way,
it was a big no-no.
When I did a bodybuilding comp she just didnt want to know about it, never asked a single question or
wanted to see a single photo, or ask how I had gone in any way- the thought of me getting
on stage in a bikini was too much for her - and she didnt even know it would be a g-string..lol

I havent explored that bit much yet, or its effects on me.

I will write more later/tomorrow..

[minimonkey]

Oh, wow -- what you wrote there speaks volumes!

And about the abs -- that makes perfect sense... you have gorgeous abs, and yet you don't specifically work them out doing crunches, etc. very much. They obviously get worked somehow, though... and in a way that has developed them nicely and very evenly too.

I am working mine less, actually, since my abs tend to overdevelop a bit weirdly if I do too much crunching -- and when I do work them, I am practicing form-overkill -- contracting in, in and more in! Otherwise my upper quadrant tends to want to bulge outward, which is not a good look....lol!

[minimonkey]

Oh, and I broke down and ordered the real hcg -- I guess we will see if that makes a difference. I suspect I will know fairly soon after starting if it is working-- either by the scale, or hunger level, or hopefully both.

I will be doing protocol with that round (I only ordered enough for 1 short round) -- at least as long as I can stand it. If it works, I should reach goal fairly quickly. If not, we call it a lesson learned.

[minimonkey]

My mind is reeling with all the thoughts, resistances, questions that are coming up around this discussion with you, Nola --

I was doing some reading on the EFT -- and I am strangely resistant to trying it. I have to do some looking into why that might be...

I asked about EMDR because the technique is somewhat similar, and it does work. I am trained in it, and I did it on clients a few times when I was a practicing therapist. I've also done it on myself, though that is a rogue technique.

A few things have come up for me with the EFT scripts -- the first (and undoubtedly most important) being that I cannot begin to imagine profoundly loving and accepting myself, no matter what I might weigh. That seems to present something of a problem

Maybe we should start a separate thread about this stuff -- I started an "HCG and emotional concerns" thread last year, and it was rolling for a while, but then it died off.

I'm willing to give a real go at trying some of this stuff out, even if it means losing my aversion to new-age techniques -- if they work, I'm up for it.

I know for a fact that emotional clearing works... I wouldn't have become a therapist, nor would I still be a therapy patient, if that wasn't effective.

Thoughts?

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

My mind is reeling with all the thoughts, resistances, questions that are coming up around this discussion with you, Nola --

I was doing some reading on the EFT -- and I am strangely resistant to trying it. I have to do some looking into why that might be...

I asked about EMDR because the technique is somewhat similar, and it does work. I am trained in it, and I did it on clients a few times when I was a practicing therapist. I've also done it on myself, though that is a rogue technique.

A few things have come up for me with the EFT scripts -- the first (and undoubtedly most important) being that I cannot begin to imagine profoundly loving and accepting myself, no matter what I might weigh. That seems to present something of a problem

Maybe we should start a separate thread about this stuff -- I started an "HCG and emotional concerns" thread last year, and it was rolling for a while, but then it died off.

I'm willing to give a real go at trying some of this stuff out, even if it means losing my aversion to new-age techniques -- if they work, I'm up for it.

I know for a fact that emotional clearing works... I wouldn't have become a therapist, nor would I still be a therapy patient, if that wasn't effective.

Thoughts?

LOL!! - about not being able to " love and accept myself whatever I weigh!!"
this has been me for many years!!
The has been one of my avenues of deepest resistance- but finally I feel I passed through the barrier.
It has taken so long to get there though- and this is the first time in all the years of dealing with this issue that I feel I have actually cracked it.
What I feel now is an acceptance, and a deep relaxing in my body that I am not fighting and struggling all the time against being fat, or the possibility of fat.
At the same time, I no longer feel so fat, or have that feeling that I am going to balloon up and get fatter and fatter (a feeling that has always been triggered when I start gaining weight, or think I might gain weight because of a dietary error).
In short- I feel a sense of peace.
Once I allowed myself to feel deeply and fully all the feelings around being fat, or the possibilty of being fat;
(and they were not nice feelings - they were feelings something like 'I was the most awfullest shameful yucky person in the world'.. hence the major resistance);
then it changed for me, the feelings dissipated/changed/mutated, and the heavy negative charge around them went away.
I have resisted these feelings for so so long!!!
I am still integrating the shift- because it feels like my insides have shifted and changed around now, in ways that I dont fully know yet.


I would most definitely support a thread about this stuff- I do believe that the answers come from the inner at the end of the day.
I have done a lot of emotional clearing work in my life, on all kinds of stuff .
I know can work, because when you get it right, big shifts and changes do happen in your emotional terrain and you feel different in life!


The trick is to find a technique that works well for you, to access the inner stuff that is needed. That technique can be different for everyone.
EFT has worked well for me, but not neccessarily all the time.
I can also go into a kind of meditative state where is is easier to access stuff;
and thats what I do most of all- though its kind of hard to describe to others as it is subtle and involves kind of following the energies I feel in my body/mind??
Sometimes in the past I have just done free writing-
ie writing randomly about the current concern- expressing feelings and thoughts etc, and allowing things to surface as you write-
and that has worked well too..

When I first found EFT I read about EMDR- but EFT seemed so good to me I didnt need the other. But if it works well for you- then it is good!

[nola baxter]

Ah- what I was going to say in the other post..

The way you EFT something you dont believe is to start by saying it exactly the way it is or how you feel!
ie,
"even though I can never accept and love myself when I am fat, I love and accept myself anyway"
"even though I fully hate myself being fat- I deeply and completely love and accept myself, and my hatred of being fat!"
"even though I cannot accept gaining weight and it is horrible to me, I deeply and completely love and accept myself"
"even though gaining weight is the worst thing that could happen to me,
I deeply love and accept myself"
"even though I can never accept weight gain, I love and accept myself"
"even though I can never accept being fat, I love and accept myself and my non-acceptance of fat"
"I love and accept myself and the fact that I hate gaining weight and being fat!"

and when you have done this for a while you might feel a shift and then might start tapping;

" even though I gain weight- it might be possible I could accept and love myself anyway?"
"even though I am getting fat, I would like to still be able to love myself"
"even though I am getting fat, I want to still be able to love and accept myself anyway"
"even though I am gaining weight, I choose to love and accept myself anyway"
"even though I am gaining weight and it is horrible to me, I love and accept myself"
"even though I am ugly and fat and disgusting, I love and accept myself, and my disgustingness"...lol
and so on..

eventually you might end up tapping
"I can love and accept myself even if I am fat!"
"I can love and accept myself even if I am gaining weight!"
"its okay to love and accept myself, even though I am fat"
"I am allowed to love and accept myself, even when I am gaining weight"

you just start tapping what you feel and change it as it goes along- you will feel shifts
it can be a very natural organic process

Sometimes u can tap opposites like this
I love being fat
I hate being fat
I love myself as a fat person
I hate myself as a fat person.
I cant accept myself when I am gaining weight
I can love and accept myself when I am gaining weight
I cant accept myself as a fat person
I can love and accept myself as a very fat , huge person!

This kind of technique can really throw things up, bring up all kind of feelings, and help with shifts and changes..

[nola baxter]

I am still going to answer some of those other posts of yours Mini.
I will get there..
Going for a walk now..

[minimonkey]

Wow -- thanks for that explanation -- it helps a great deal. I still feel terribly uncomfortable even thinking about doing this, which means there is likely a lot of power in it.

I learned about EMDR before I had ever heard of EFT -- I had a psychology mentor who used it with trauma patients with great success. I do know that it works amazingly well, though not always in the way one imagines it would. The techniques sound like they work somewhat similarly, and accomplish similar outcomes.

I think I am going to do a bit more reading about how, exactly, to do the tapping, and then I will try it out -- cautiously. EMDR isn't really supposed to be done to oneself, and there are good reasons for that ... I managed to put myself into a complete trauma flashback that way once! It ended up clearing a lot for me, but it could have gone very wrong... so I respect the dangers inherent in using it on oneself. EFT sounds like a safer process on the whole to do on ones own.

Resisting feeling the feelings is most of where we get stuck, I think... the feelings are awful, and so the psyche protects us by banishing the feelings and thoughts to remote corners of the self, and they become difficult (or impossible) to retrieve consciously. Techniques like EMDR/EFT, as well as psychoanalysis, can help us allow those feelings and memories to emerge... and experiencing them is what does the clearing.

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know... as you said in an earlier post, I am talking mainly to myself, here I need reminding that there is progress to be made in going through the resistance to the source of pain.

So much of the way we store trauma is in the body -- it literally, neurologically becomes encoded. It makes sense that healing those traumatic wounds to the body and mind would also aid in healing the bodily systems.

Answer the other posts only if/when you have the time... it is helpful to me to write this down and know it is falling on receptive, supportive ears (well, eyes.)

[minimonkey]

It sounds like you are making some major progress with this, and that is fantastic! I am glad that you are feeling more peaceful -- that really sounds like a marked change, and is very encouraging.

I think starting a new thread is a good idea -- I'd like to keep it here in the hcg section, if possible, because this protocol seems to bring up a lot of emotional material for people, probably because it is so restrictive and the changes can be so dramatic. Also, a lot of us know one another fairly well at this point, which makes for deeper discussions a lot of times.

I hope you enjoyed your walk!

[minimonkey]

The natural, organic shifts you describe are very much what I have experienced when undergoing EMDR... they are rather indescribable, but very profound. Unlike talking through something, and having insights, these shifts seem to happen at light speed, and within the nervous system. Strange stuff -- and a bit scary in that it requires a lot of trust in the process....

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Wow, Nola -- I can't begin to describe the intense discomfort I felt reading those phrases -- talk about striking a chord!!!!!!!!!!

Your dream is absolutely priceless -- it couldn't be more perfectly pertinent if you had tried to make it up.

I have a lot of those negative messages too -- my mom was never overly critical about weight, but she herself has to struggle with it (and she does, successfully) and I think she passed along a lot of things without meaning to do so. I also did gain a lot of weight between third and fourth grade, and I think she was trying to help me shed that, but didn't know how.

She DID pass on a lot of negative messages about bodily desires in general, and about pleasure -- my mom carries a ton of baggage about sexuality, and I think a lot of that is stored in me as "bodily gratification is bad and dangerous" types of beliefs.

It sounds like you have made some major progress!!!!!!!!!!

I am sure my Mum has no idea about the baggage she has passed on to us! She probably isnt even aware of it as baggage within herself, and would have a lot of difficulty acknowledging that she had anything to do with it.
But there are big food/diet/body hang-ups in my family, even my brothers were not exempt, and two sisters are semi-anorexic, one has been very bulimic..

I havent even started to crack the stuff around sexuality and bodily gratification - though I know there is a lot there,
my mother was and still is highly constricted about those things,
and I dont doubt I have a number of restrictive unconscious messages and core beliefs around that stuff.

I have made progress, that is for sure, but I am aware of more to go.
It seems like it is going to be one of those periods of my life that involves a lot of intense inner work.
It has really come out of the left field though.
Before Xmas I was saying to my friend- " I have had a peaceful time lately, no major traumas.." lol
Then since Xmas- I have been slammed on all fronts- and got opened up to the max!

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Oh, wow -- what you wrote there speaks volumes!

And about the abs -- that makes perfect sense... you have gorgeous abs, and yet you don't specifically work them out doing crunches, etc. very much. They obviously get worked somehow, though... and in a way that has developed them nicely and very evenly too.

I am working mine less, actually, since my abs tend to overdevelop a bit weirdly if I do too much crunching -- and when I do work them, I am practicing form-overkill -- contracting in, in and more in! Otherwise my upper quadrant tends to want to bulge outward, which is not a good look....lol!

I am not really a fan of crunches, I think they can build the abs outward.
I prefer planks or plank variations,
or just working the abs within the context of other exercises.
Do plenty of whole body exercises and you will get good abs- I am sure!

[nola baxter]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Oh, and I broke down and ordered the real hcg -- I guess we will see if that makes a difference. I suspect I will know fairly soon after starting if it is working-- either by the scale, or hunger level, or hopefully both.

I will be doing protocol with that round (I only ordered enough for 1 short round) -- at least as long as I can stand it. If it works, I should reach goal fairly quickly. If not, we call it a lesson learned.

I hope the real hcg does make a difference for you- its very hard when you are struggling with hunger and not even getting the right results!

For me at the moment I am not focusing on manouvering the external elements of weight loss, because I know I have to do the internal thing first right now, and then let the external follow from that!

I am watching and observing my hunger though and considering that-
I have decided I would be in a properly fed state at around 4000 cals a day-
which is more than I have been intaking;
and would theoretically cause a large gain (especially since the rough 3000 average I have been having over the past month or so has resulted in gain).

I am not sure what to do about this yet;
I am very much working on a day to day basis in terms of what to eat, but I notice I do still restrict and restrain my hunger a lot, particularly at night.
Do I unleash it or not?
That is the question for me right now.
I dont really want to gain (any more)- but is that a needed part of the process right now?
Or do I need to do more inner work first so I can eat to hunger without manifesting gain.
Or if I do more inner work, will the hunger naturally diminish and normalise to a lower level??

Either way I need to do more inner work to find out which is the right answer..