The HCGers exercise thread

[minimonkey]

Nola -- LOLOL about the bobblier back and the muscley bits! How adorable
Sounds like a good outcome, too!

I hope you figure out what is going on with the butt...whether it is fat, muscle, etc.

I have a much better bicep on the right, too -- I'm quite right-arm and right-leg dominant, though the strength difference is much more pronounced in my arms than my legs. I am hoping that regular lifting of the same weights on both sides evens that out somewhat.

I'm also laughing at the idea that I could ever even approach your strength, really (I have seen the numbers of the weights you lift!!) .... though I appreciate the exaggerated vote of confidence. I am pleased by my muscle gain, and particularly by the accompanying strength....

I don't want to lose that on this p2 -- I am thinking that 3 weeks is a pretty finite amount of time, and that as long as I keep working out, it should mediate any longterm metabolic damage. I don't mind scrapping the cardio/HIIT during p2, but the strength training I am determined to keep going.

I am doing a mini-load (with hhcg) today -- clean and keto, but a lot of food, and higher fat for sure.

I'll keep watching what you do, and you watch me, and between us maybe we can figure this out

[shelbyla]

Originally Posted by Bierarsch

Amazingly, I don't get headaches or migraines from it. I used to have migraines when I was younger, but I believe they were thyroid/hormone related because I've not had one in a very long time. The chronic spasms and tightness has been a problem since my teen years. At least 10, if not 15 years. I carry all of my stress in my neck and shoulders, and sit at a desk all day for work. Bleh!

I have thought that I have fibromyalgia before, but am too scared to get tested for it. I already have one autoimmune disease and I don't want another one, even though it explains the pains that I have. At that point, I would look into LDN therapy.

I am looking through the DVDs that you recommended right now.

Another thought for you (not causitive but solutionizing), have you looked into a type of massage/PT called neuromuscular therapy? Practitioners are a bit hard to find but if you get a good one, they can help with chronic pain caused by all sorts of things. It's pressure point therapy combined with various massage techniques and has helped my chronic neck and shoulder pain like nothing else. You might want to see if there is anyone in your area who specializes in it to try it out. It's also often covered as PT through insurance so that's another benefit.

[DisneyPrincess]

Hiya. I'm here. Been a busy few days as I've been preparing for my first interview and inspection for the daycare today (I opening one).

Runs have been ok, though I'm thinking I need to up the calories and carbs a little. I don't run tomorrow so today will be low and then tomorrow night I'll add something in to get my body prepared for Saturday mornings long run.

Going to go read up

[minimonkey]

I ended up loading yesterday with some complex carbs, too, figuring I'd give myself all the metabolic advantage I could going into this round. Stomach is a little grumbly (I ate tempeh and hummus) but nothing terrible.

Hoping this round does the trick!

Disney -- good luck with the inspections -- that must be quite stressful. Also, good luck figuring out the optimum nutritional balance for your training needs.

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

Well, it has been a testing ground for me over the last few days- with my butt looking and being bigger, and wondering if I should reverse plans.
All the usual fears have popped up, of getting fat, and losing control etc. etc.
But I decided to allow it all and just keep running with what feels good to me on the gut level right now - which is my current plan.

Already my body dropped off some of the swell, and is looking better.
But it will still be a week or so before a pattern shows itself and I can really see whats going on.

Yeah- my son is real cute in his descriptions!
In the main, I think the definition does not lie, size of the butt regardless..but we will see.

On my left side , the insertion of my bicep muscle and of the calf muscle, is higher, which means those muscles never look as big .
In other words the muscle starts higher up the arm or calf- which means it cannot attain the same full puffy look even if it is just as strong and has been trained in a unilateral fashion (I think thats the right wording).
Ironically enough my left calf is stronger than my right, even though it looks smaller.
My triceps are also different looking on either side.. a different kind of shape..
and my left shoulder noticeably fatter than the left!
A certain asymmetry is normal and unavoidable, as long as it is not too imbalanced.

If I had any advice to you on your P2 :
it would be to ditch all the intense metabolic work, and just do a few heavier lifts, with long rests in between.
And maybe some very light cardio.
This should keep up your strength to a good degree, (though not your conditioning so much),
and should create less demand on the body in terms of the diet and food, and make it easier to stick to the low calories.

And yes, lets watch each other to see what works..I love it..

[minimonkey]

Nola -- thanks for the advice for p2 -- that sounds about like what I had in mind. If I feel okay to work out more, I will -- if not, I will stick to the weights and ditch the HIIT. All things considered, 3 weeks isn't very long... though it may seem like an eternity by the end of it.

Interesting about the differences in your muscles from right to left! I think the main difference for me really is a matter of strength and use, since I haven't been doing arm work all that long. As I continue training, I suspect the more subtle differences will start to show.

Glad to hear you are seeing a drop off in the butt swelling -- I hope your gut feeling leads you the right direction for progress! I know that women have a lot of hormonally sensitive receptors in the lower body (alpha 2, I think?) and so it makes sense that hormonal swings would cause changes there more readily than elsewhere in the body.

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

Well, I have been having TOM, so that is probably part of it,
and I think muscle has definitely grown there as well,
and probably swelling from exercise too.
My butt is very high and round out the back!
Along with the ever present saddlebags..

I couldnt do a P2 , 3 weeks would definitely be an eternity to me!

The thing that is a really suprising and unexpected bonus of my current diet scheme is that my body is becoming so much better at processing food;
my digestion and bowel function is going so well right now!
I have been eating a lot of cheese on my load days this week (because my friend gave me a big block of prime Havarti cheese);
and everything is going like clockwork regardless.
It seems like I can eat anything right now and have no problems.
And the feeling of being really food logged and full on my load mornings is lessening-
ie, my body is adapting..

[minimonkey]

Nola

That is incredibly cool that your body is adapting so well to the extra food! Also very encouraging that you can eat formerly problematic foods without difficulty.

My gut has actually been pretty happy lately too, and I hope p2 doesn't mess with that too badly.

I hope eventually to be able to push the calorie ceiling up, too --I know that a couple of people have done it quite successfully with the hcg protocol... Shelby being a prime example of that.

Glad to hear that TOM was a part of the whole butt picture -- that explains a lot!

I really like the look of a high, round butt, myself -- particularly when it is so clearly muscle.

[minimonkey]

I managed a fairly decent workout today -- triceps, biceps and abs... the slow and heavy lifting series. My strength was nothing to write home about, but I think that is lack of sleep as much as anything else.. and endurance was pretty good overall.

Including my post workout apple and protein shake, I think I only ate about 700 calories today... maybe a bit less, even. Oddly, my hunger all but disappeared after working out, which surprised me.

If I can do this p2 without losing much strength, I'll be really pleased. I don't expect any muscle or strength gains during this time, but some added definition would go a long way to making me feel this was all worthwhile.

Once I am back in p3, I am going for the slow bulking strategy... I don't particularly care to go through this cutting business again. I'd rather build more slowly, and keep the fat in check as I go.

I honestly am seeing more definition day to day, meaning some fat was coming off even before starting p2, which is really encouraging.

[DisneyPrincess]

Calories were a little higher yesterday at about 1200 and I felt much better and slept much better as well. I think I'm going to aim for closer to 800-1200 rather than the 600-800 I was aiming for. Tomorrow I have a 12 miler so I'll be fueling adequately and and eating some good recovery foods as well

[nola baxter]

Hi Disney Princess

Higher calories sounds good-and like Mini commented once, I too am amazed at how much exercise you have managed to do on the lower calories..

I cant sleep well if I havent eaten enough.

I had a funny conversation with one of my friends yesterday, she is naturally lean, and doesnt exercise at all.
She says eats two big cheese sandwiches every night before she goes to bed, then often wakes up hungry and has to eat something substantial in the middle of the night otherwise she cant sleep properly. Lol.
She says her partner just laughs at her.

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

Yeah, it is exciting about the whole food thing- I am looking forward to seeing what the next few weeks bring.
And now that its starting to look like there has been no weight gain- even better!

I like the high round butt- but it does make clothes fit differently- they dont fall in quite the same way, and need to be tailored around the butt.

Your calorie ceiling seems a bit low for your activity level.
I think you should be able to get it to 3000 cals a day- over time.
If I can get away with what I am doing- my current cals will easily come to 4000 a day (averaging).

[minimonkey]

I kinda agree that my calorie ceiling is a little low, too--- I don't particularly want to spend the rest of my life having to adhere to 1500-1600 cals to maintain, if I am working out this hard. (Mainly because that means I am pretty much always hungry )

I do eat super clean even when maintaining, too -- and that leaves me feeling like I will always be on a diet.

I guess if that's what it takes, I'll do it... but I am hoping that the real p2 helps reset things (as it is supposed to do) and that I will be able to push up into the 2000 or more range for maintenance.

If I can't do that, at least maybe my body will be able to be resilient to the occasional cheat day, so I can go out and enjoy food with friends from time to time, even if it means compensating for it the next couple of days.

[minimonkey]

I've been reading a bunch of articles on metabolism and caloric needs... according to the majority of those, my BMR at my current weight is only about 1100 calories, and with the addition for exercise, I get a maintenance level of about 1600, assuming 6 hard workouts a week. Drop the ten lbs to goal, and maintenance drops to about 1450, working out hard 6 days a week.

Anecdotally, I know other women (not just you, Nola!) whose needs are greater than that... so I am hoping that the muscle mass will help jump it up beyond that.

At 1450, with hard workouts, I am constantly hungry and low energy.

We'll see -- starting in p3, I will do some serious work on the metabolism and attempt to raise it.

[minimonkey]

I do know that constant dieting can really downregulate everything. Case in point: My roommate can gain weight on about 800 calories on average, and that's with working out nearly every day ... she undereats, then occasionally binges, then goes back into a starvation cycle again. For maintenance, she needs to keep it to something like 600 calories a day... and she is sickly as a result of that. Skinny, yes... but low energy and in a lot of pain a lot of the time.

Her diet is pretty terrible - she eats a lot of candy, and almost no protein, so that can't be helping.

I'm not in danger of ending up there, because I am so strict about what I do eat being very clean... but I can see the potential to end up being one of those people who keeps dropping calories further and further until I am eating nearly nothing. I don't want that at all.

[minimonkey]

Well, so much for taking it easy on the training today -- I was angry (long story, stupid fight with SO) -- so I tried doing the fusion thighs and glutes tape -- got through 3/5 of it and lost patience, and jumped on the rebounder for a serious bout of HIIT.

I feel better now. It was pretty much that, or put my fist through a wall... so I think I made the better choice.

[DisneyPrincess]

I know it's not funny but you have me chuckling mini. Sorry about your fight but I'm glad your workout cooled you down some

I'm up eating my prerun meal (oats and natural peanut butter). I'm not used to eating before I run but I know it is WELL needed to sustain 12 miles.

I'm also very excited because I have my friend working on a lifting routine for me to do while I train for the marathon. I don't want to lose any muscle while doing this and it seems I always have. So he's advised me to take a week off and then starting next week I'll be jumping into it

Ok, time to get moving

[minimonkey]

It's ok to chuckle, Disney -- I was seriously angry last night, and the whole "ground, center, find strength within stillness" thing that the Fusion people were doing just made me angrier.

I needed a testosterone laden wall-of-muscle barking orders at me, and making me quiver in pain. It helped

[nola baxter]

lol Mini

I hope you have sorted out your fight and your feelings with your SO..

I had an on/off relationship with a man last year, and everytime we had another drama and break-up, I would usually go to the gym afterwards;
I would think- well, my emotional life is in tatters, so I may as well go to the gym and make something worthwhile out of my day!

It did help for me, kind of my grounding center- the place where I felt strong and in my power regardless of the undermining feelings I was experiencing with my relationship.

[nola baxter]

Mini

Re calories
Those amounts you have talked about just seem low to me.

I know lots of women do eat low calories, but I think it often has something to do with all the dieting women do over the years, and less than healthy metabolisms.

Julia Ross of "The Diet Cure", is only lightly active and says she eats about 3000 cals a day, and thinks most women should be able to eat in this way,
(this is from my memory of the book- I hope I got it right because it has been a while).
I remember reading it and agreeing..because for me, I am always hungry on lower calories, and her amounts made more sense to me.

And as you say, you are hungry all the time on the lesser cals-
I have been there so much in my life-
to maintain the leaner weight I had to be on the edge of hunger all the time.
Thats what I am working my way out of now..

I will see how it goes for me over the next few weeks with my new calorie increase- if I can get away with it or not-
if so- it shows it can be done.

I have already done it with the lesser amount (when I jumped to averaging 3500 cals a day- at that time my estimated maintenance was 3200)-
and now jumping to the 4000cal mark.
I am pushing it making this jump, and so soon after the other jump;
but I am thinking that the structure of the way I have added the calories may enable for it- I dont know if it would work so well if I just spread out those calories in an equal fashion..

I am hungry again at the end of my load day.
And the low cal day following, I am hungry- but it is manageable acceptable hunger, not weak depletion type of hunger.
And I always know I am going to get up the next morning and eat everything I could possibly want and need, and then feel full satiation for most of that day.
And I like that feeling- I can just forget about food for a while.

And yes, your roommate is an good example of where I have been in the past to some degree or other;
I know the experience well;
my metabolism can downgrade very fast.
I dont want to go there again, ever..
It took my body many years to rebalance after my last starvation diet experience, it was frustrating and depressing and very hard to deal with.

[julieboolie]

Hi Girls!
I'm still here, plugging away. Eating VLC's and trying to do my 3 workouts each week. Doing well, but def need some more energy.

Mini-good use of that frustration!! You're rockin' already in P2!! I knew you would!

Nola-love the inspiration and your calorie level!! I'm hoping to get higher in cals over time myself, but will do the cycling thing and do it slowly. I gain so easily, especially w/ any sugar/carbs. I'm planning to up my healthy carbs in maintenance too and see how ti goes.

DP-you're a machine!! I love the idea of training for a marathon, but am def not a runner. Did a 5k a few years back which was a big deal for me. I'm fond of cycling though .

I hit the gym today, my last true VLC day. No dosing today. I did cardio and some light weights. I can feel the lack of energy and look forward to eating more and challenging my ouw workouts more. Dd(11) came and worked out too, which is fun. She's lost 8lbs in the past 4 weeks eaing Lc, so I'm very happy for her. She's doing great! Hope she'll be my workout buddy. I know she can't do weights much, but light weights working on her form is a good place to start .

Anyway, getting hungry so I'm gonna' go see about dinner. Looking forward to upping the cals carefully this week !

[minimonkey]

I totally agree about those calories seeming drastically low, Nola -- and I know that when I was not dieting at all before the first of the year, I was maintaining at 125 easily, eating quite a bit... to satiety, in any event. I didn't have nearly the muscle tone then I do now, nor was I anywhere near as active... so I am not buying the low numbers much either.

I am doing rather astoundingly well on the low cals so far -- think I am going to clock in at about 700 today, and feeling just fine to do a good workout too...

I think we are going for a new Cathe one, called Muscle Max. Its part of her "hardcore" series...LOL (is EVERYTHING hardcore these days?) Should be a darn fine workout, though... that woman doesn't mess around.

I just don't get nearly as much out of the isometric workouts anymore... my body has gotten a lot stronger, and they just aren't nearly as hard... at least by comparison. I guess I am getting used to having my tush seriously kicked when I work out!

[minimonkey]

Julie -- you've been so virtuous this round... it just seems unfair that you saw so few tangible results from it.

Fantastic news about your daughter, though!!!! That makes me so happy to hear!

[shelbyla]

Hi guys.

Just popping in here. Took a couple of days off this week due to getting an IUD placed and the resulting feeling of general ick. Recovering nicely and hoping that I am one of the lucky ones for whom periods all but disappear. Sure would be nice after 33 years of wretched Aunt Flo! Did a good workout today and actually got motivated around mid-day which is usually not the best time for me but I ended up fasting until around 11am and still wasn't hungry so thought I'd get that workout in since I hadn't eaten. I always prefer to do cardio fasted for some reason, although I am definitely not doing the scope that most of you guys are!

Anyway, I had a question for Mini... I think I recall you saying that you were eating coconut yogurt? I have a friend who has tried a number of brands (giardia unfortunately!) but hasn't found one that she likes Do you have one that you particularly recommend? Thought I'd post this here since I know you visit this thread regularly. Thanks!

[minimonkey]

Hi Shelby!!!

I like the So Delicious plain coconut yogurt pretty well... it does have a small amount of sugar though...in the form of evaporated cane juice. Its not comparable to the yum factor of Fage, but I apparently don't tolerate dairy very well, so it is a lot better than no yogurt at all.

Hope your friend gets better soon... giardia sounds like a whole world of awful!

[minimonkey]

Well, I am truly surprised how well I held up in my workout tonight... did Cathe's muscle max, and actually felt strong and had good endurance too. Weird, but I'll take it! That's another longish workout.. about an hour and a half of solid work... it felt great.

After this p2 is over (or maybe even sooner, if this keeps up!) I need to increase my weight on the squats, deadlifts, etc. I am gaining a lot of lower body strength very fast.

We bought a few new goodies today -- a decline bench that was way on sale, and some more weight plates, and an additional pair of dumbbell handles. I also got a pad for my barbell to cushion the neck and shoulders during squats, and that thing is amazing in the difference it makes.

I love all these new toys

[DisneyPrincess]

I need to come workout at your house mini!!

I'm looking forward to my new plan, which I believe will be starting next Sunday.

I have family in town this week so my hope is to just maintain I guess. I'm really wanting to lose but it just doesn't seem the right time.

[nola baxter]

Hi Julie
Good luck with the P3 and adding carbs and calories.
I hope you can get to higher cals and a metabolism that will give you a bit more flexibility with food and eating than you currently have!
It seems like you deserve it.

Hi Mini
Sounds like your P2 is going well so far- fingers crossed for the rest of it!

[nola baxter]

Back in the gym this morning!

Last week I managed to raise my lower body weights by good margins , easily;
and my upper body weights by small amounts, not so easily.
So I will see what this week brings.

I am hoping for improved training with my high calorie diet, and no fat gain!

[minimonkey]

Nola --

I am looking forward to seeing your results this week!

I am pretty flippin sore this morning-- at least my upper body is.

I should probably take a rest day, and either just do cardio, or rest altogether. I may try to get in some lower body work, though... as long as I can actually keep it isolated to the lower body and not engage my arms too much.

Maybe I'll actually use the leg curl part on the weight bench... I rarely use that, tending to prefer squats, lunges, and whatnot.

I am really wanting to kick up the weights on the lower body -- I realized last night that I could probably easily squat twice the weight I am using now, even with the fairly high reps... the problem is supporting the weight with the upper body/core (and loading the barbell to my shoulders safely) -- I have quite a lot of strength in my legs, relatively speaking.

My next gym purchase is going to be a pair of squat stands -- that'll help.

So far so good with the p2 -- I'm holding up well, and the hunger is minimal. I am down a pound on the scale, too.

Most of the struggle is mental this time around -- and I keep reminding myself that 3 weeks is a very short time in the grand scheme of things.