The HCGers exercise thread

[porkfatrules]

Hi exercisers!

I took a little break -- getting boys ready for camp, lots of stuff going on here. Excuses, excuses . . . I know.

Anyway, I'm on to a Callanetics rotation -- I feel like trying it consistently for a while and seeing what results happen. I've seen lots of people do well with it (just check out the Callanetics threads here on LCF, and you can see some amazing changes!).

Now that I'm in P3, I feel like I can do more cardio without getting into trouble, so I'll mix up Callanetics (I have the original 10 years/10 days, or whatever it's called) some of the Quick Callanetics ones, and the newer Callanetics Evolution (which I haven't tried yet). And, since I have to maintain my weight in P3, any changes that happen will be all about the exercise, not about diet -- so that should be a good experiment.

Glad to see you all are chugging along!

[nola baxter]

Hi all

CMarie- have a really nice vacation!
It is great to hear about all your new clothes- a nice affirmation and reward for all the weight you have lost!
I think I need a stability ball for sitting at the computer- I am sure it would help my posture and activate more core work.
And since as I spend a bit of time on the computer...

Mini - my butt grows with certain exercises- not out the sides, but out the back-
my bodybuilding friend calls it a "nigra" butt- she says thats what the bodybuilders call it,
and it happens when you build up the muscles of the glutes!
Still holding that fat in the butt here too- though my lower abs and core are losing fat..
Eventually it has to come off the butt!!
Lol- I know that kind of training you mean( your rebounder workouts)- it demands a lot more from you- and can be excruciating, but brings its own rewards..
Good luck for your cutting- it will be interesting to see if you notice a difference when you come off the drops- I have not noticed any yet- but it has only been a couple of days since my last dose- so probably too soon too tell.


Still training hard and eating hard here- and feeling good with it.
I have started doing plyometric jumps with a 20kg bar across the shoulders; I have been doing different plyometric jumps for a while- but adding the weight is a whole new dimension. I like the feeling of power and spring it is developing in the legs.

I have been pushing the calorie envelope Shelby- and it has been good so far - and fun..lol..food heaven!

Nola

[minimonkey]

Hi everyone --

Nola -- yes, the butt growth is mostly muscle, I'm sure of that My glutes are finally getting some volume to them!!! Mine's filling out in the back too... looking nice and perky, and not so fallen. I've gotten a bit of widening out, too -- that's largely the gluteus medius muscle, which has developed a nice little bulge to it.

I'm not too happy with my levitating saddlebags, however -- though I suppose I prefer them to the hanging, flapping ones one the whole.

Nola -- I simply CANNOT fathom doing plyometric jumps that heavily weighted! I am in awe, really, that you can do that. I do them unweighted for the most part, or occasionally with 3 to 5 lbs on each shoulder... and those are plenty strenuous enough for me. Now, grant you, I do high reps when I do these... but seriously... 20 kgs? That is 40-plus pounds.... I doubt I could even get off the ground with that!

[minimonkey]

I posted this on the main thread too -- I am going back to p2 for a bit. I will order some pellets when I have money (hopefully next week) but am going to start using the drops I have remaining.

I know I won't be able to stick to the 500 calories, or at least not for very long ... but I am going to try to stick to the p2 foods list, and just eat more of p2 foods as need be.... I am hoping for a clean 3 weeks on that, which I think should take care of the leaning out I am seeking.

I'll work to find a balance of lean eating that still permits me to work out hard, too. If I really can't hack that, I'll reassess after a week or so.

I ate and rested today, and will start the p2 in the morning. I know I'll be okay the first few days... after that, I will have more to go on.

I haven't weighed, and I doubt I will until I am at least a week or so into the p2... I just don't want to get obsessive about a number at this point.

[nola baxter]

Lol Mini
I like your quote, "getting fit requires discomfort, embrace the suck"...tis true..

I am stronger than the average- hence the weighted jumps- I did ordinary ones for several months though before I branched out!

Levitating saddlebags..ha-ha.. those things can be annoying though- they seem to just hang on like crazy!
Mine are firm but strongly there- I suspect I have cemented them in place by exercise- lol.
I still think they should not be there- why the heck cant I get rid of them! At this rate I will have to be stripping every ounce off the body to lessen them (as per usual).
My sister had hers liposucted- she was/is tiny too- an anorexic weight, and always fit and well-exercised. She said, you can never get rid of them!
Mine become negligible at a bottom level weight- but I still think it should not be so.

Good luck for your entry back into P2- go easy on your poor old body though- I suspect you will find it hard on the low intake with your intense workouts.
But I guess you will be tuned into that and able to adjust when neccessary..

I am pretty sure that if you cant stick to the low calories, you can still achieve the leaness that you want on a higher intake, albeit more gradually.


Nola

[minimonkey]

Well, I broke down and weighed yesterday -- I've put on 10 lbs in the last 2 months or so! Roomie and I are doing bodyfat today, so I will have a sense of how much of that is muscle -- my guess is that most of it is. If so, that's pretty kick@ss!

Made it through a near-protocol p2 day yesterday (I think I kept to the 500 calories), with an intense workout at the end of it, but no change on the scale today -- I did shed a lot of bloating and inflammation I'd been carrying, though, so I feel a lot better in that regard.

Not at all sure these drops are any good anymore --but I wasn't chewing my arm off yesterday, so they must be doing something. I am a bit hungry this morning, though.

It's crazy how much muscle weighs as compared to fat, really. My muscles are getting quite dense overall -- hard to the touch -- and that's very cool.

Nola, you must really be quite strong!!!!!! I can only hope to have a fraction of that strength one day. I've gotten a lot stronger than I was, though... so I can't really complain!

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini
Well , if you can gain near 10 pds of muscle in 2 months- you will soon be surpassing my strength!
That kind of muscle growth is really really good!
I am near my ceiling now, so find it hard to make gains..

I am becoming addicted to my high calorie zig-zag diet..lol
I have settled into a nice routine- it has been 2.5 weeks of it now, and I can now absolutely tell my body is starting to lean out on it. Only slowly and incrementally- but that is enough.
I feel like my body is starting to respond to the short sharp large intake of food by getting better at processing it,
(I eat the bulk of my high calorie days in a 4 hr window early in the morning- almost 5000 of the 5500cals),
ie, it feels like my body is digesting and using it quicker- I dont feel so food logged after these feeds and it feels like my body is burning off the energy more quickly and easily.
Towards the end of my 5500 day yesterday, I was feeling hungrier than I normally would at the end of one of these days, and during the night I was dreaming of food- which happens when my body is quite hungry.
And this morning upon awakening, I was very hungry- more so than I was earlier in this experiment after high days.

My conclusion is that this pattern of dieting is speeding my metabolic rate;
which kind of makes sense according to some stuff I have read.
MY hypothesis is that the all out huge feed-up kicks the body into gear,
and then the low intake that follows after lessens the chance of weight gain from it ;
gives the body a chance to process all the calories, and even lose, from the subsequent drop in intake.

Since as I eat the bulk (nearly 5000 of the 5500 cals) of my high day in a 4 hr window early in the morning ; it is almost like an intermittent fast;
ie, huge amount of food going in,
followed by very small minimal feeds,(comparitively),
for the next one and a half days.

Unfortunately in a week I am going away for 10 days and will not be able to do the same diet structure- I dont know what I will do yet, but I will have to wing it mainly.

But when I come back , I can see myself returning to this pattern- it is very interesting and exciting, and of course, highly experimental.
It could be the key to up-regulating metabolic rate though- which I think is amazing , because mostly in the dieting world, people are struggling with the down-regulation of metabolic rate;
I did myself for 20+ yrs!!


Nola

[porkfatrules]

Nola, I think your science experiment (data point of 1!) is awesome -- I'm fascinated by the high calorie level you're able to take in without gaining fat, and I wonder how that would translate to a person who was doing a human, (as opposed to super-human, like you!) amount of exercise.

I'm also interested in the idea that you take in so much of your caloric "budget" in a small time period -- which flies in the face of some of the research that shows small meals keep the metabolism going better than one or few larger meals. Of course, there's so much counter-balancing research in the IF world, so I don't claim to know exactly what's what on that front, but I've always thought it made sense that, if you take in way more calories than your body can use at that moment, then it's very easy for the body to take the extra and store it as fat. Obviously, your results show a different story.

Anyway, I'm just enjoying reading your and Mini's posts -- you are my *muscular* idols!

[minimonkey]

I am also incredibly fascinated with your experiment, Nola -- and so glad it is working for you!

I decided to hold off on bodyfat calculations, as I am feeling PMS at the moment, and the bloating can throw the measurements off ... I definitely have some water retention going on.

Made it through day two of p2, and it wasn't too horrible -- I think I came in at more like 800 calories today, and am definitely feeling hungry and cold tonight, but am willing to suffer through that for the time being... it's a tolerable hunger, not the all-demanding kind... so I can live with it.

I did get in a good workout (Bar Method) this morning, and felt good doing it... I suspect I'll feel the depletion soon enough, but for the moment its okay.

Not really expecting to see any drop on the scale until after TOM, and that's okay, too... as long as I am staying the course, I have to see results eventually.

[minimonkey]

OOOOh -- our neighbors just gave us an elliptical traininer that they didn't want anymore!!! It's pretty cool (huge, though) -- variable settings, etc. Wow -- excellent thing to have!

We now need to find a home for it in our gym area.

[nola baxter]

Hi Porkfatrules

I think you could take what I do and just do it on a smaller scale for someone who exercises less and is used to eating less.
And do it in the pattern that suits your individual needs.

I have been priming my body for this approach for a while really (unwittingly);
by the heavy resistance training, zig-zag dieting, and the now lower bodyfat.
All of these things have created a "needs" state in my body , where it has a big demand for calories and can suck them up like crazy.

But I think any person can use the principles of zig-zag dieting and apply them in a manner that suits their lifestyle and current calorie intake.
I think there are underlying principles that make zig-zag dieting (and it can be done in many patterns/formats) more effective than steady state calories.
The body tends to try and adapt and adjust(and therefore cease to respond), to anything you throw at it,
and switching things up/changing intake up and down all the time , helps to avoid this scenario.
And intermittent high intake triggers various beneficial hormones which keep metabolic rate high.

Stuff like this anyway..
sorry , I am a bit brain dead right now and am having a hard time thinking things through into a coherent thread!

I think if you are going to take in a whole lot of calories in a sitting, it helps to be in a "needs state before hand;
ie, where the body is truly hungry and has been in a bit of a calorie deficit preceding;
then part of the food that is eaten gets shuttled to liver and muscles to refill empty glycogen stores, and to wherever else the body is needing or lacking.
It also helps to eat less afterwards and train a bit- to give the body a chance to burn off any excess.
And I believe that the more you eat big- the better the body gets at dealing with it and burning it off.
I was reading some sites- I think Matt Stone's blog, and the Scott Abel site;
where there was talk about competitive eaters and how some of them are quite skinny;
there was this idea shunted around that intermittent big eating can really boost metabolic rate.

But yes- there is lots of conflicting info around about eating and how to go about it.. and the traditional bodybuilding approach is 5-6 small meals a day.
But you can still eat 5-6 meals a day and have your metabolic rate drop like a stone- because overall calories are too low (I have been there!).
I think a better approach is to vary things and keep changing whatever you are doing-
and most importantly, if you are cutting calorie intake right back,
to have times of increased intake,
to stop the metabolic rate from bottoming out, and simply adjusting the the lower level calories.

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

I like elliptical trainers!
I prefer them to any of the other cardio machines - lucky you.

I find there is a thin line for me between acceptable hunger and unacceptable hunger- wherein I get into a low/non-functioning zone, and am no longer thinking so straight.
And sometimes I can cross over that line without realising it, by which time my head is not in a good space, I become solely focused on food, and have about zilch tolerance for dealing with things- and am weak and hungry.

I woke up super hungry yesterday morning,
but was determined to stick to my low day (because I am stubborn and determined), and so I did;
but by the end of the day my hunger had increased in intensity and I was not in a good state-
in retrospect, I should have listened to my body's warning signs and adjusted calories upwards.

Ah well, live and learn!

[Stampe63]

Im in 2 weeks rest by doctors order... got stabbed with a knife in my left hand and leg when I middled 2 guys from molesting a girl.

Take care all

[shelbyla]

OMG Stampe! Please take care of yourself! So brave of you to stand up for her though!

[jabbok]

Originally Posted by Stampe63

Im in 2 weeks rest by doctors order... got stabbed with a knife in my left hand and leg when I middled 2 guys from molesting a girl.

Take care all

Oh wow take care of yourself, I am glad you step in to help her.

[minimonkey]

What a hero, Stampe!!!!!! So sorry you are injured, and I hope it heals fast -- I'm glad there are people like you who are willing to help others... you rule!

[minimonkey]

Nola --

I crossed that line yesterday into unacceptable hunger, and wow did I tank.... no energy, just drained beyond belief. All I wanted to do was sleep -- it was an all-systen-shut-down. (I've also been battling a mild flu, so that was part of the picture I'm sure.)

I jumped ship on the p2 attempt, and ate -- a lot -- and rested. Today I feel like a new woman.

I'll be p3-ing it (no drops, ziz-zag calories) and working out until I can get some pellets -- at that point I will try p2 again, but definitely modified for my higher nutritional needs.

I'm pretty sure the drops I have are not very potent anymore.

[nola baxter]

Wow Stampe..cool!
And I dont mean your hand and your leg- I am sorry about that and hope they heal quickly;
but so cool that you jumped in and helped, especially when it was not safe to yourself!

All the best for your recovery

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini
I am glad you are feeling way better today!
I ate heaps yesterday and am feeling pretty good now myself.

But I know well that feeling of an all-systems-shut-down. I get it if I go too far into the hungry zone - it is very much not a good feeling!
I see it as the body trying to conserve energy when it has none. It starts shutting down and stopping nonessential functioning.

I am pretty sure you are in a similar position to me and cannot go too low the calories without suffering for it; the body just doesnt have the back-up energy to support it.
If I start to get too hungry- there is just no tolerance for it any more- it is an emergency, not a situation where I can just sit it out.

I can only attribute it to the low fat really - for me it is a condition that seems to accentuate the lower in fat I get.
Some peoples bodies seem to have more tolerance at the lower fat levels- mine doesnt!

I had a very good workout late yesterday morning though (after all the food- lol); my strength was definitely up- not sure exactly why- but it is a good sign.

Have a good day all
Nola

[minimonkey]

I was rather expecting to have a higher tolerance for hunger the fitter/leaner I got, but that just does not seem to be the case for me, either.

I do have a lot more muscle than I am used to having in recent years, though, and I use that muscle pretty constantly.

I just had a great workout -- one of the rebounding ones -- my current favorite of them. I can now do the whole thing with no modifications, and today it almost felt easy (at least by comparison to when I first started them.) I still sweated buckets -- literally dripping sweat off my body (and it is only 65 degrees here) -- but I felt strong and very able to complete the workout without fatigue or pain. YAHOO that feels good!!

I also increased the weight on the strength sections across the board --There is hamstrings section where you have your feet up on the rebounder, and back on the floor. You do one-legged bridge style lifts, with weights on the hips -- I had been doing 6 lbs total, and today I jumped it up to 10 lbs... and I actually could have gone higher than that without much trouble. Next time I will up the weight some more On most of the exercises I just increased from 4 lbs to 6 lbs... but that is still an improvement.

[vli1127]

I just joined this thread, haven't read through all of the posts, but skimmed a few. I see some are doing Lottie Burke, I used to have a set of those DVDs but couldn't stand the person's voice, so I got rid of them. I do have a ballet DVD and exhale core fusion body sculpt with Elisabeth Halfpapp and Fred DeVito. They do exercises like the Burke method. You may also try T-tapp too.

I have some wheres about 50 DVD and old VT that I rotate through varying from Gilad, The Firm (old and new), Leslie Sansone, Kathy Smith etc. Strength training, circuit training, cardio and stretching too. I have an eliptical, tread and recumbent bike in the basement. I also walk outside a couple of times a week for an hour at about 3.5-4.0mph.

I have been doing this for about 10 years now. So, when I started hHCG, I wasn't about to quit. Mini, I also have a rebounder and have old JB Burns Urban Rebounding tapes, but would like some different ones, what do you have?

[minimonkey]

Vicki --

I have the new series from Urban Rebounding, called "Extreme Metabolic Training." I ordered the 13 DVD set, and I really love it -- its based on the same principles as p90x -- some serious weighted cardio interspersed with strength intervals and HIIT.... good stuff, and hard, too. Its nothing like the old Urban Rebounding workouts, at all. There are a couple of the workouts I literally can't complete... and I am in pretty good shape overall.

I love the Core Fusion Body Sculpt.. that is one of my favorite workouts.... I find that MUCH harder than the Lotte Berk series ever dreamed of being.

I used to be a huge fan of The Firm... I still do them from time to time, particularly the older tapes that are straight up weights and cardio, without all the gadgets that came along later. I still love "standing legs" and "tough tape two" even if they are really, really dated! (In fact, I love that part as well... oh, the hair! The leotards!)

Since I just inherited a very nice elliptical trainer, I am going to add that into the rotation, but I am pretty seriously getting addicted to the rebounding workouts for the bulk of my cardio... so I suspect I will add the elliptical as a second burst of cardio a couple/few days a week. It'll be a good addition on the days I do barre work/isometrics.

I think we are going to buy a home weights machine soon -- I will have a little extra money for the first time in a long, long time... and that seems a really good investment. My sweetie, who has MS, could use it to help build strength (his ability to exercise is pretty limited), and my roommate and I would definitely use it.

First, though, I am going to invest in some good flooring for the gym area -- that has become a necessity. The rebounder workouts involve a lot of pushups, plank, etc. with either hands or feet on the floor... and the slippery and splintery wooden floor isn't cutting it anymore. They involve too much mobility for a standard gym mat... so I am seriously eyeing the interlocking flooring for the whole area.

Eventually, I hope to have a nice, diverse home gym setup... we are getting there, one piece at a time.

[Getting there!!!]

Hi Mini!, you're still inspiring me with your workouts!! I got the Bar Method's Super Sculpting DVDs and have done no.1 twice now----ouch!!!!!! Sooo much more advanced than Fat Free or DS-no comparison! By butt is seriously sore!! And I feel like someone punched me in the ribs!! So that's definitely a good thing!!
I love the strength I'm gaining from all of these-I love Core fusion too! I think though I'm gaining muscle faster than I'm leaning out at the minute, so I'm really upping the cardio (IT with (lightl!) weights with some HIIT thrown in). I hope that will make me drop some fat!! Especially in areas like the back-when is that ever gonna go!!!!!
I really like the idea of calorie zig zagging. I think my body has got very used to very low cals.
You are a true inspiration on the board. You are an example of someone who, not only has lost weight, but has completely changed their shape and body composition!!

[Getting there!!!]

Oh and just to say-I'm seriously jealous of your home gym! I'd love to have space it! It's just not the same in the living room!

[minimonkey]

Gettingthere--- thanks -- you are so sweet!

I am a bit bulky at the moment too -- have gained a lot of muscle, and am wanting to lean out now -- also hitting the cardio pretty hard myself. ( I actually ate to gain this past month, because I wanted to build up muscle -- and I did! Now, it is time to lean back out with another round of p2 and some serious cardio.)

Not all of the muscle bulk will stay bulky -- Burr Leonard talks about this on her blog (and she mentions it in the Super Sculpting 1 video) -- the muscles sort of "stand up" when they are first developing, and will later flatten out and wrap around the bone -- but it takes time and continued work.

Aren't the new Bar Method workouts great? I felt pretty beat up after the first few times through them, too -- but they do get easier.

It's definitely a real plus to have room for a gym setup -- I did the 'living room" thing for years... and its okay -- but having a dedicated space is pretty priceless.

[vli1127]

Originally Posted by minimonkey

Vicki --

I have the new series from Urban Rebounding, called "Extreme Metabolic Training." I ordered the 13 DVD set, and I really love it -- its based on the same principles as p90x -- some serious weighted cardio interspersed with strength intervals and HIIT.... good stuff, and hard, too. Its nothing like the old Urban Rebounding workouts, at all. There are a couple of the workouts I literally can't complete... and I am in pretty good shape overall.

I love the Core Fusion Body Sculpt.. that is one of my favorite workouts.... I find that MUCH harder than the Lotte Berk series ever dreamed of being.

I used to be a huge fan of The Firm... I still do them from time to time, particularly the older tapes that are straight up weights and cardio, without all the gadgets that came along later. I still love "standing legs" and "tough tape two" even if they are really, really dated! (In fact, I love that part as well... oh, the hair! The leotards!)

Since I just inherited a very nice elliptical trainer, I am going to add that into the rotation, but I am pretty seriously getting addicted to the rebounding workouts for the bulk of my cardio... so I suspect I will add the elliptical as a second burst of cardio a couple/few days a week. It'll be a good addition on the days I do barre work/isometrics.

I think we are going to buy a home weights machine soon -- I will have a little extra money for the first time in a long, long time... and that seems a really good investment. My sweetie, who has MS, could use it to help build strength (his ability to exercise is pretty limited), and my roommate and I would definitely use it.

First, though, I am going to invest in some good flooring for the gym area -- that has become a necessity. The rebounder workouts involve a lot of pushups, plank, etc. with either hands or feet on the floor... and the slippery and splintery wooden floor isn't cutting it anymore. They involve too much mobility for a standard gym mat... so I am seriously eyeing the interlocking flooring for the whole area.

Eventually, I hope to have a nice, diverse home gym setup... we are getting there, one piece at a time.

Mini, can you just order the new Urban Rebounding DVDs by themselves? I check a while ago when they first came out after I saw the new infomercial and it didn't appear as though you could get them separately. I am interested. I can't stand Tracy in the old videos and many of them have mistakes in them too. For example, they say they are going to do 3 sets of running and only do one. Very frustrating.

Yes, I do get a kick out of the old Firm tapes to with the leotards. But, they are good solid work-outs unlike the new ones that do wimpy weights and gadgets. I never did buy any of their equipment. I had my brother build a tall box for me many years ago though.

When my oldest son went through basic in SC I actually went to a Firm studio and worked out with Ali. That was awesome too and it was free!

[Getting there!!!]

Hi Mini!! Yeah the new DVDs are great!! I just can't get enough of them! I love them! Cardio on the other hand!!!! I do actually feel great when I've done a great workout and the sweat is pouring off-the thought of doing it is always worse!!
I've read that about the muscles bulking out at the beginning, so you feel your clothes are actually getting tighter(I swear that's happening with my jeans!) but then they will start pulling back. I think you said you found that happening with your upper abs? So I'll just keep plugging along!!!

I post (a lot!) on the Stillman's thread but I lurk here from time to time!!!

[nola baxter]

Hi Gettingthere

Re calorie zig-zagging;
I have been reading some of the Judd threads , and the woman there (Sohappy) says that she find that the Judd zig-zag has enabled her to lose weight when the same amount of calories evenly distributed did not;
and that also her metabolism is more sprightly now after Judding for a while-
ie, it behaves more like the metabolism of a young girl - more resilient, and enabling her to splash out with eating every now and then without paying heavily with sharp weight gain.
I pretty much have a similar experience..
And I think its possible that sharper zig-zags could be more useful than more moderate ones.

Hi Mini
It is great that you are increasing your weights in your workouts- must be a good feeling !

[Getting there!!!]

Thanks Nola. i'm going to look into it. i'm on a very long stall at the moment!! Also I don't think I can live with 600-800 cals of chicken and tuna for ever!! At those low cals and the exercise I should be losing! And I'm still in my 20s!!
I sometimes wonder if I've stalled because I'm gaining muscle but I don't think I am really because I keep hearing over and over again you can't build on a calorie deficit!!! I hope that's not true!!
I love reading about your lifting-I think when I'm using 5lb weights for IT I'm doing really well!!!!!!!

[vli1127]

I just looked at the Urban Rebounding "Extreme Metabolic Training", too intense for me. Now I just need to find rebounding DVDs that are different from the original Urban Rebounding