The HCGers exercise thread

[minimonkey]

Nola -- more great finds on hcg! I've seen similar postings on the bodybuilding boards (I just lurk there.)

I'm definitely seeing changes in body composition -- most specifically the rapid muscle building without fat gain. Hey, I'll take it!

I completely agree with Nola on the calories, though... there is NO WAY I could be doing 700 calories at this point, and still functioning well at all.

I did fine on the 500 cals when I first started.. but with the very increased activity level, and the higher muscle to fat ratio, it just isn't possible.

[minimonkey]

Yesterday was a rest day (except that I am redoing the bathroom -- paint, wallpaper, tile, etc.) so I was actually in pretty constant motion all day long....

Today I did another of the new rebounding workouts -- wow, I love those. This one kicked it up even harder than the first one I did, and I felt sincerely challenged by it -- in a good way. Tomorrow will be a strength day -- probably one of the newer Bar Method workouts, though I may go in for one of the rebounding strength workouts if I think I am up for it.

I don't want anything to pull me away from my isometrics for too long, though... I still plan on 3 of those workouts a week at minimum.

I am actually starting to see some honest definition in the upper part of my butt (wow!) and also the faintest hints that some reasonably nice muscles are present in my abs, if only there weren't that last little layer of fat covering them.

Butt still has a ways to go, but it looks better than it ever has before, at least that I can remember.

ALSO -- I was thrift shopping today for household items, and found a really cute pair of boots... I have generally had trouble with boots, being both short and muscular, they often don't fit in the lower leg.... but I tried these on, thinking they would be tight... and they are a perfect fit! That is definite proof that my lower legs are leaning out!!!

[porkfatrules]

Morning, all!

Yesterday, I did the first workout in the new Zumba Exhilarate package. It is so great -- I love Zumba (and other dancy) workouts in general, but here they really outdid themselves! Great instructors, great set, really fun!

Today, it's a gorgeous day out, and we're taking the family for our usual (weather-permitting) family (and dog) hike.

[mymy3377]

Originally Posted by nola baxter

For some of us, 700cals is still way not enough..especially with intensive workouts.

thanks Nola, the thing is I wouldn't really classify my workouts as "intense"

I do the Lotte Berk 4 times a week as my strength training but it's only a half hour, and my moderately intense cardio three days a week is only a half hour as well. I average about 1.5 miles of walking everyday too but that's just to run errands and walk the dogs. I guess I'm afraid to increase the calories too much because I do short rounds and want to lose as much as possible without losing time to experimenting with the maximum number of calories I take in and still lose. Do you think there is any danger in keeping it 700-750 calories a day and still working out? Besides just feeling "blah" anyway? Because if not I could probably deal with it and the increased hunger for a couple of weeks although the cereal in my pantry is really calling my name

[minimonkey]

Mymy -- I think you might be okay on 700-750 calories a day for the time being, especially if you don't mind being hungry -- but listen to your body. (I lost well on 1000 calories or so a day when working out lightly, so you may have more leeway than you think.)

If you start feeling real depletion, then either step down the workouts a little, or up the calories.

[minimonkey]

Some combination of yesterday's rebounder training, and all the household tasks I'm doing, has resulted in some mighty weird soreness today -- my forearms are sore, of all things -- and a lot of soreness in my obliques (this is a good thing!) My ankles are sore -- and I'm talking muscle soreness, not stiffness indicative of inflammaton or injury.

The new rebounding workouts are great in that they use muscles I didn't even know how to identify before -- it provides a really balanced training overall, with a lot of variety too -- no boredom here!

[mymy3377]

Thanks Mini, I guess I'm just nervous. In the first 5 days of this P2 I've had my best losses ever so I guess I don't want to jinx it TOM is due in about a week so I'm thinking that could be part of my issue too so I'm just going to grit my teeth and fight through at least for another week and then I'll re-evaluate.

Just for reference though when you were losing on 1000 calories what did you make up the caloric difference in? Protein? Fruit?

[minimonkey]

I ate extra protein and nonfat or lowfat dairy. Occasionally I would do an extra fruit serving, too.

Since you are losing well and it is still tolerable, I'd probably do just what you are doing -- grit my teeth and ride it out. Since you are doing short rounds, Im thinking it's likely ok to do just that.

[nola baxter]

Hi Mymy

I would tend to agree with Mini;
If you can stick to the 700cal range and still feel ok, though a bit hungry- then do it.
But if you are like me, when I was trying to do that, and become increasingly hungry and non-functioning, I would up calories.

Just be sensitive to your body and dont try to push it too much, otherwise it can backfire and weightloss actually slow.
When your body is too stressed and really not getting enough to function, in starts to slow down , and shut down metabolic rate in order to survive- even on hcg I believe.

You are doing a fair amount of exercise..to my mind.

Good luck!

[nola baxter]

Hi Cmarie
You should in no way ever be intimidated by Mini and I; what you have achieved is big!
You have stuck so committedly and persistently to months of protocol, lost a massive amount of weight despite physical challenges, and are now working to rebuild your strength and fitness.
Few could go the path you have with as much dedication and persistence!

Hi Mini

You are losing fat off your butt more and I am losing it off my abs! lol..
My butt is still in the stubborn zone.

My calories are averaging at about 2800cals a day right now- and with this I can still see gradual fat loss. My abs have started to become more defined this week.
My strength and energy is good in the gym now- whereas before I was bottoming out with feeling heavy exhaustion/depletion. So building the calories back up again has solved that.
I am staggering calories all over the place and also different eating styles.
Some days all fruit days, some days lean protein and low carb veges, some days with a mix of carb and protein..
When I eat a lot at the moment- I eat it in the morning- then workout, then go lean in calories for the rest of the day.
So my diet is very much an eat big, eat small concept.
ie;
On my biggest cal day this week I ate 3600 cals before 9.30 am- worked out later in the morning, then ate 600 cals of lean protein and veges for the rest of the day..(4200cals)
On low days though, I usually spread out the calories more evenly across the day.

It is kind of fun, playing round with it all..

[porkfatrules]

My mind is boggling at the idea of 4,200 calories . . . you are probably working out more than I ever have in my life, but still! Wowza!

That said, I bet I'd be amazed at the calories I've eaten without being aware of it -- after too much fatty mexican food at my favorite restaurant! Maybe I was closer to 4,200 than I'd want to know!

Anyway, I'm glad that it's working right for you!

[nola baxter]

lol.. 4200 cals is conservative for a load day for me..

Right now I workout 1.25-1.5hrs very hard in the gym every second day.
I practice posing usually twice a day= 25-30 mins all up ,(which is reasonably hard isometric exercise.)
I do 20min of Callan about every 4-5 days
And the occasional light walk.

So actually- it is not so much exercise- but it is more about intensity than quantity.

[C'Marie]

Hi Mini and Nola and all -

I woke up VERY sore this morning - LOL arms, core, legs everywhichway-and place!
Even with just the little bit I did and they had me doing the arm pumping thing in the air one arm at a time while holding onto the stability bar so even my shoulders are sore. My gosh I'm out of shape. Hope this helps and soon! I was having to walk with the cane around the house after a few hours last night cuz I stiffened up substantially. But this morning after rest I feel just sore not stiff as much.

I do feel like I'm retaining water this morning and my weight is up some - not quite to steak day status so I'm watching it today, I will get on and bounce some again soon. I will do 20 minutes again but maybe gentler this time ROFLMAO - yep, I'm one of *those* people - competitive even with my own self. Just can't stand it unless I'm challenging myself some way.

[nola baxter]

CMarie

lol, sore is a good sign- waking up all those muscles!

[C'Marie]

I did do another 20 minutes; slightly lower intensity, helped to work out the soreness

[mymy3377]

Do any of you supplement with L-Carnitine? I think I've been convinced to add it to my P2 , supposedly it helps to reduce fat mass, increase muscle mass and reduce fatigue. On another HCG board I frequent they use it as part of a "cocktail" - the L-Carnitine, a probiotic and a digestive enzyme. The ladies use this combo to help them stabilize in P3/P4 and they're reporting great success with. Some have added it L-Carnitine (2,ooo mg/day in two doses taken on an empty stomach before breakfast and lunch) to P2 and they say it's keeping them feeling strong and getting consistent good losses. The liquid is the best way to take it but they are getting good success with the generic capsule version from Walgreens or Walmart.

Thoughts?

Oh and there was a a study showing that L-Carnitine in conjunction with Alpha Lipoic Acid reduces aging and boosts energy. I'm a sucker for anything that promises to be antiaging

[minimonkey]

Mymy -- L Carnitine is one of the supplements I refuse to go without, if at all possible -- love the stuff. I've been taking it regularly for years now, and I can really tell when I stop taking it for very long... it's fantastic for good, sustained energy, and I'm all for the antiaging effects, as well! I know it makes me feel better, and that is enough for me.

I take the capsules, and they are fine. I have no idea how it does or does not affect fat loss -- I started taking it to combat fatigue when I was terribly sick with Lyme, and it really helped.

[minimonkey]

C'Marie -- Congratulations on your first really sore day! As Nola said... sore is good (as long as it is worked muscle soreness, as opposed to injury soreness).

I'm actually not surprised at all that you are sore -- rebounding works the whole body in very subtle, but very effective, ways -- it is extremely efficient exercise in that regard. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how quickly you build strength and stamina, too.

I really want to underscore what Nola said -- please don't feel intimidated (I am very glad that you don't!!) What you've accompished is amazing, and I'm in awe of the committment it has taken to reshape your entire body and lifestyle the way you have. You are an inspiration to the board, and I hope you know that!!

Adding in structured exercise is just the next piece of the puzzle, and you've already shown that you have the fighting spirit to accomplish anything you set your mind to

I often find that working out helps with soreness too, up to a point -- there is a level of muscle fatigue at which I just need to take a rest day, but walking and stretching definitely help on those days as well.

[minimonkey]

Nola and Porkfat --

I think I'm averaging about 2500 low-carb calories a day at the moment (and I could still eat more, believe me.... )...and I seem still to be losing fat, too. I am seeing a lot of changes in my body, and it is a bit hard to know what's what -- my leg muscles are really building, and they look a little bulky to me at the moment, but I am fairly sure a good deal of that is water retention and not actual bulk.

I also know that newly building muscle often sort of "stands up" first, and then gets harder and more defined as the muscle heals completely, and that it tends to lengthen and wrap around the bone more in time, so I am not particularly worried about it... though I am going to see if I can counterbalance any bulking....

I am going to try to eat a bit more p2ish this next couple of weeks, and see if I can get some real leaning out action happening... we'll see if I can hack that. I'm definitely not going super low calorie, but perhaps I can manage a small caloric deficit in any event. I'm going to try the up day/down day thing... that seems a bit more manageable than any kind of sustained caloric restriction.

Today was a Bar Method day -- worked very deep into the postions, and really got a killer workout in.... and boy did I feel it after yesterday's rebound-a-thon!

Nola -- about posing... I have no idea how real bodybuilders do it, but when my roommate and I were playing around and taking pictures, I remarked to her that getting all my muscles to flex and stay flexed was almost harder than actually working out... you're not kidding about that being good exercise!

Congrats on the abs definition -- that is no small task!! Very glad your dietary experiments are producing good result... and thank you so much for sharing them... I am learning a lot

[nola baxter]

Hi MyMy
I took L-Carnitine for a bit, but did not notice a difference..
But others do!

Hi Mini
Yeah, that posing is pretty hard- the first time started to practice this year I thought, " ugh..this is really hard- do I really want to do this!!" lol..
Bodybuilders say that posing on stage is harder than the hardest workout- and thats why sometimes you will see people shaking like crazy on stage- nervousness and the strain on the muscles!

The 2500 cals doesnt surprise me- nor the fact that you could easily eat more!..
See how you go with trying a bit of calorie deficit- it might work- or be a bit too much strain on the body..
Sometimes you just have to accept the slower route of very gradual loss rather than creating too much stress with a deficit the body struggles with.
I am finding that right now, and am just accepting the slow loss , while enjoying feeling a bit better/stronger in my body.

I am glad someone is interested in my dietary experiments!
My bro-in-law said to me once; "you are always on some sort of strange diet!" ..lol .
There is truth in it- I like to experiment with different modalities and to find out what works the best.

It does sound like you build muscle easily- lucky you!

[minimonkey]

Nola-- I'm intensely interested in your dietary experiments I like to do much the same thing, and I learn a lot from watching the results others have too.

Yes, I am truly fortunate with my body's willingness to build muscle-- I build extremely easily for a woman. While I love that, I am also a tiny, petite person with a very slight frame... so the challenge for me is keeping the gains very, very lean. (If I were ever to go in for serious bulking, I think I would be able to do it pretty well.) I seem to be one of those rare exceptions to the "women don't gain bulk" adage.... I do -- or at least it can look that way relative to my stature.

My glutes and hamstrings, however, are one area I have had a terrible time developing. I tend to end up with monster-quads and calves, and then a lack of development in the glute/hamstring area. I'm really targeting my strength work to address that, and I am seeing the results, although I am still ending up with some mighty quad muscles in the process... at least the development is more even overall.


My abs are evening out, finally! That big, bulging upper quadrant is pulling in, and my lower abdomen is catching up. My obliques are showing some visible definition, and the rest of the abdomen is, at least, starting to get very flat and firm. I think a little more leaning out, along with the continued workouts, and I'll start seeing some more prononouced definition overall.


This week's dietary experiment is to eat a good, hearty meal in the morning, and then try my level best to keep it light and lean for the rest of the day. Like you, I am a morning eater... and when I wasn't working out like this, I could just eat a good breakfast and then pretty much take or leave eating for the rest of the day.

Now, however, I don't know... I'll just have to try it and see what I can manage. I tend to work out late in the day (afternoon/evening) -- and actually prefer not to eat after my workout, generally.

I am going to shoot for another rebounding session today -- I'm sore, and feeling some muscle fatigue for sure, but I think I can manage one more cardio interval blowout before I need a rest day.

I'm liking the way those workouts work me -- they are making me sore in places that generally don't get much work, and that has the potential to lead to some definition overall that I wouldn't ordinarily see. Plus, if I can manage even a small caloric deficit, I think the metabolic boost from that type of training will really yield some results.

[C'Marie]

I am proud to say I did my 3rd 20+minute workout today. It seems that already I am a little less winded and it takes slightly less time to "cool off" at the end. How is that possible?

Also, my weight is UP although my eating is completely stable since I wanted to be sure any gains were coming from working out-is that an urban myth? Is it possible that I would be up more than one pound just from muscle soreness? Or should I immediately do a steak day? I haven't eaten anything yet although it's after 2 pm here.

[mymy3377]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

I am proud to say I did my 3rd 20+minute workout today. It seems that already I am a little less winded and it takes slightly less time to "cool off" at the end. How is that possible?

Also, my weight is UP although my eating is completely stable since I wanted to be sure any gains were coming from working out-is that an urban myth? Is it possible that I would be up more than one pound just from muscle soreness? Or should I immediately do a steak day? I haven't eaten anything yet although it's after 2 pm here.

Nope, when your muscles tear (as part of the building process) they tend to retain fluid in those areas. When I workout really hard or after a long break my weight can fluctuate wildly. My last P3 I was losing weight daily to the point I was about 5 pounds under LDW, I added exercise and for the first few days, despite not changing my eating, I was right back up to LDW (so 7 lbs. in three days ) until all the soreness was gone and I went back down over a couple of days as well.

[C'Marie]

Originally Posted by mymy3377

Nope, when your muscles tear (as part of the building process) they tend to retain fluid in those areas. When I workout really hard or after a long break my weight can fluctuate wildly. My last P3 I was losing weight daily to the point I was about 5 pounds under LDW, I added exercise and for the first few days, despite not changing my eating, I was right back up to LDW (so 7 lbs. in three days ) until all the soreness was gone and I went back down over a couple of days as well.

OK so I will just eat my meats and salads today and keep the water flushing. How long before it goes back down? I am very very badly out of shape. I'm not kidding.

[mymy3377]

Originally Posted by C'Marie

OK so I will just eat my meats and salads today and keep the water flushing. How long before it goes back down? I am very very badly out of shape. I'm not kidding.

It's what I would do personally and until your weight stabilizes again I wouldn't add anything new to your menu. And just to prepare you, it took a couple of days for my weight to really peak before it started to come down so it might be another day or two of fluctuations before your body adapts to movement. You should stabilize though in a few days though but just keep an eye on it. If it gets too much to bear or you think you get too high a GY or steak day won't hurt anything IMO. I'd wait to hear what Nola and Mini ave to say too...

And you're in better shape then you were three workouts ago so keep your chin up! I think you'll find that if you keep with it consistently you'll see increases in endurance and strength pretty quickly. The hard part is getting started and you've already done that

[minimonkey]

Water retention from exercise is definitely NOT an urban myth.. I can put on easily 5 lbs if I work out particularly hard for a couple of days running. What mymy said is precisely right .. muscles get tiny tears in them (this is a good thing - it's how they get stronger) and the body retains water to help the healing process.

I have honestly stopped worrying much about the number on the scale (though I know that isn't possible if you are following protocol strictly.) If I were you, I'd just expand your window for a bit, allowing for some weight from water retention... this isn't the bad kind of water retention... it's actually necessary for the body to get stronger and heal.

If your muscles are sore, you've worked them hard enough to cause a change in them... and that does mean a temporary weight gain. You'll probably find that the weight swings lessen in time, as your body becomes accustomed to exercising.

I'd stick to a menu that you know works for you and is safe, and realize that the number on the scale is not indicative of a fat gain, at all.

As for the workouts getting easier -- hurray! I'm not surprised -- the body is capable of so much, it is astounding sometimes.

[nola baxter]

Hi CMarie
Yep- I would agree with Mini and Mymy, dont worry about those small increases on the scale at this point, it will not be indicative of fat gain.
Watch your body and see it shrinking..even if the scales go up a bit.

Hi Mini
You sound like my sister-in-law, she also is one of those exceptions to the rule about not building muscle quickly- she bulks very quickly- and actually hates it!
She doesnt like a muscular look, and gets a complex when people compliment her on it.
She is short too- 5ft1in.
She can train with light weights for a few months and get a look that takes me years to attain- and with weights 3 times as heavy!

In terms of butt and hamstring development; straight legged deadlifts do it for me. My butt grows from this.
You can do a one-legged variation with light weights.

Eating a lot in the morning and not much for the rest of the day worked well for me today! mainly because I ate so much in the morning (close on 5000cals)..lol
I havent been hungry in any significant way since. Though I am starting to feel it a bit now (8.00pm).
But if I was trying to work on a caloric deficit, it would not have felt so good!
i seriously wonder if I did this every day on such a high calorie intake what would happen- would I gain, stay the same, or even lose- who knows!
It is an experiment I might be willing to try for a week!

Nola

[minimonkey]

Nola --

I also wonder what would happen if you ate like that all the time -- you seem to have a crazy high metabolism now! I wonder if you'd simply build muscle more effectively... or if there would be a fat gain.

I know what you mean about finally feeling satisfied... and it takes quite a bit of food for me to get there as well. I actually miss the days of being able to eat one hearty meal and simply forget about food for the rest of the day. I'm obviously not willing to give up working out just to get that luxury back, though.

Like your sister in law, I can gain muscle using only light weights for the upper body.... although I do isometric lifting, so it isn't as if I am just doing bicep curls with a 2 lb dumbbell (lol) . I also do a lot of pushups, and variations on dips and such... so that's where the weight bearing is increased.

Thank goodness I DO like a muscular look -- otherwise I'd be doomed to light cardio for the rest of my workout days, and I'd probably die of boredom

I have recently added some weighted squats, lunges, etc. -- and I'm still talking pretty darn light weights for lower body work... a maximum of 10 lbs on each shoulder -- and that has just sent my quad development straight through the roof!

I wonder what it is in physiology like mine, and your sister-in-law's -- that makes us able to bulk easily, versus someone like my roommate -- she trains with me -- and she has the hardest time getting even the smallest bit of definition. She's strong and quite thin.. but visible muscles take forever to appear on her body.

[minimonkey]

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion about the deadlifts!

[nola baxter]

Hi Mini

I wonder it the easy to grow muscle thing might be because of higher testosterone in some people, and genetics in others.
In my side of the world, the Maoris and Polynesians gain muscle easily and have thicker more solid physiques generally.
Some people have that skinny ectomorph physique , and can not usually gain true bulk, only a leaner skinnier kind of muscle.
I have an endomorph physique, which means I have a reasonable ability to gain muscle, but never look as muscular due to the soft rounder endomorph look.

But to give you an idea of the weights I currently use;
deadlifts (straight-legged and ordinary), up to 85 kg
barbell bench press, up to 60 kg
dual motion bench press, up to 75kg
lunges- barbell, up to 70kg
walking lunges- 27 kg in each hand
squats, very deep, up to 60 kg
calf raise; whole stack +60kg on top..
And for me these weights do not produce huge muscle..
In fact at a normal body fat, most people would not even notice that I had muscle!

I have my fat test on friday;
and after that, I am giving serious consideration to trying out my 5500 calorie days (eating it mainly all in the morning), every second day..
On the in between day I would eat what I needed, allowing for mild hunger, which could be around the 2000 mark.
I would train hard on the high days, and only lesser/ lighter exercise on the down days.
Maybe for a week and see what its all looking like ..
if nothing else, it would give my body a nice influx of fuel, and probably a much needed break from caloric deficits!

I have been thinking about the quad dominant thing, I used to be more quad dominant..I think it has to to with the way you use your body in part;
Learning the strict forms in T-tapp and Callan taught me how to use my body in a bit different ways, which I think helped.