Simeons HCG protocol--July 2010

[hcground1]

Originally Posted by thin in 2010

The more I think about it, the more I want to start my loading days tomorrow. Is it too soon considering TOM just started yesterday morning? (TOM is usually about 5 days, just the first 2 or 3 heavy)

Opinions??

I didn't answer because I'm just not sure of an answer. I don't know if loading during TOM would pose a problem, I don't see how it could, except maybe make TOM last longer or something. But I'm no expert. I started 10 days before TOM was due, and made sure I transitioned into P3 before TOM was due. So, I really have not experience with which to answer.

But, I DO care!

[Victrola]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

What did you add in? The reason for the slow and steady rate--and ideally it should be one carb at a time in one day--is to see how your body reacts. You may not be able to incorporate all carbs back in. Your body may not like white bread, or tortillas or oatmeal. Even if they are your favorites. You really should go slow and see how your body reacts. Don't have potatoes and bread in the same day. That way you will know if your body likes sweet potatoes but cannot handle oatmeal. It is not necessarily the amount of carbs, but where they are coming from. You know the good ones versus the bad ones!!

Let's see. A low carb pita bread on Saturday. Another one on Sunday plus a bite each of sweet potato salad, orzo salad, butterscotch sauce. Ice cream yesterday.

I did have a good sized serving of my sugar free coleslaw on Sunday. That one is a super hard one for me to get my mind around - that cabbage can make me gain. Cabbage. It's cabbage!! How a nutritious, low carb, high fiber, low calorie, etc., etc., could possibly be bad for me.

I know that you (Dawn) want to be able to eat carbs regularly, but I know that I don't/won't. So, I am thinking P4 as it is written maybe isn't really for me. Three days in a row maybe doesn't work for me, even minimally. Hmmm.

Still wish I could eat cabbage. I'm Polish! There's cabbage in my blood! Well, that and vodka.

[nifer6]

Originally Posted by hcground1

I started 10 days before TOM was due, and made sure I transitioned into P3 before TOM was due.

I'm on VLCD10 today and my TOM will come up before VLCD21, probably on day 18 or 20 of VLCD, do I do something differently during TOM with taking HCG and diet? Should I transition to P3 instead of doing extra days of P2. I hadn't decided if I wanted to do the full 40 or not, but thought I had to do at least 23 loading days.....thoughts?

[Superfreak]

Originally Posted by stinastina

I'd like to know what the difference in numbers means as well. But I think in general, if you are not hungry and you lose at least .5 pounds per day, the drops are working well.

Thank you for your response, stinastina! Maybe somebody who knows about the numbers will enlighten us both!
I do tend to get hungry in the middle of the day, while I'm at work...I wonder if I should start taking drops with me, and dosing in the late afternoon? Currently, I am only dosing in the morning, and in the early evening..15 drops each time. Maybe I should start doing 10 drops 3 times per day, and see if that helps?

[mutantmomof4]

Thank you for the information, a bit harsh, but thank you anyways.

I thought loading was simply to replenish your fat reserves? Does one need to be dosing in order to replenish the fat reserves?

Regardless, I am getting in an additional day of fatty foods, can't hurt.

[hcground1]

Originally Posted by mutantmomof4

Thank you for the information, a bit harsh, but thank you anyways.

I thought loading was simply to replenish your fat reserves? Does one need to be dosing in order to replenish the fat reserves?

Regardless, I am getting in an additional day of fatty foods, can't hurt.

So sorry if it seemed harsh, I didn't mean it that way. :blush: I'm not entirely sure how to answer your question, I just know that the protocol says the first two days (loading) are to be done while dosing.

[hcground1]

Originally Posted by nifer6

I'm on VLCD10 today and my TOM will come up before VLCD21, probably on day 18 or 20 of VLCD, do I do something differently during TOM with taking HCG and diet? Should I transition to P3 instead of doing extra days of P2. I hadn't decided if I wanted to do the full 40 or not, but thought I had to do at least 23 loading days.....thoughts?

I continued to dose during TOM, and had slower losses, but still lost. I don't think you treat it as an interruption. I believe P & I says you can stop dosing, but keep eating vlcd, unless you get hungry, then you should continue dosing. I just kept dosing all the way through, as if nothing had changed.

As far as transitioning from P2 into P3, I was advised not to do it too close to TOM. I'm guessing the hormones can cause problems. I was told (not on this site I don't think) to make sure I was eating P3 for at least 5 days before TOM or to wait till TOM had been gone for 3 days before eating P3.

Oh, and I believe you are supposed to do a minimum of 23 days (2 loading days, and 21 of vlcd) before transitioning into P3.

[wishbone]

...just want to say...if I happen to be the only one online, and it seems I am ignoring any questions about "TOM"....I really am not.
I'm only 52, and I have not had a period in almost 10 years. Kinda nice in a way....so, I just don't want anyone to think I'm ignoring them....

JAN

[PaisleyMae]

We are a chatty bunch, my goodness! Everyone is doing fantastically well on all phases! As for me I released 0.3 lb today which is great in my books!!! YAY!!! So I have released a total of -4.9 and am on VLCD5.

RENO --- 11.5 LB?!?!?! YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!! You go girl! And thanks for the compliment! I hope I can maintain my enthusiasm through the ups and downs that I know are to come!


VICTROLA --- IDK what to say about P4 since I'm a newbie and all :blush:, but I will tell you what I think I might do....being PCOS and hypo I do not ever plan to incorporate refined carbs back into my WOE on a regular basis. For this reason, I am not really going to do P4 the way that it is written. I am planning to start out just like you though and add LC pitas, sweet potatoes, etc. I will probably cut most fruit during P3 and do strict Atkins Induction so I will add the fruits back in P4 as well. The only thing I can think of is if you're not planning to eat them and they are making you gain now, if it were me I would stop eating them and go back to P3. I hope that helps because you have worked so hard!

hcground1 --- Thanks so much for the choco delight suggestion!! That sounds delish!!! I used the EVCO the first day because I was so starving and it helped me get through. I am not planning to use it on a regular basis right now, but may experiment with it later because it seems as though a fair number of people tolerate it well on P2 in addition to their 500 cals simply because of being in ketosis. I am not in ketosis yet, however , so I should probably not use it, haha!

Hay --- Great release girl!! Keep your chin up, you are losing HUGE numbers for someone with so little to lose! More than me and I've got 50 lb to go till I reach goal!

[FatFatnomore]

Originally Posted by thin in 2010

Ugggh I can't wait to start this diet already! TOM is kicking my rear, cramps from hell, and we've had a lot going on the past couple days and in the coming week or so.

So, if TOM started yesterday, today is the cramps from hell day.....and tomorrow it should be better and much better by Wed. When should I start my 2 loading days?

The instructions that came with my drops said to stop taking the drops during the first 3 days of my period and then to start them up again. When my drops first came they arrived on the 3rd day of my period so that's when I started. TOM showed up again during my round since I did a long round, but I didn't stop the drops at all and I continued to lose and the drops didn't effect my TOM at all. Not sure if I helped at all, but I figured I'd let you know what my experience was.

Also, I've never in my life been regular, not even when taking the pill, but my last 3 TOMs have been exactly one month apart from each other. I don't know if it's possible, but it seems like the hcg cured my irregularity.

[mutantmomof4]

Ok, TOM for me has always been a little strange (PCOS). Mine will start very light and then stop for 2-3 days then start up light again (sometimes it will stop again for another 2-3 days) before it is VERY heavy, I go through this every month, not to mention it never comes on any given day.

I've ready (and just read in the post above) that we should not take the hcg in the first 3 days of TOM...what would each of you consider the first three days for me?

[soontobesexy'ntx]

I dont have any "words of wisdom" re TOM either
I'm 50 and last year I stopped having my TOM and didnt have one for 6 months my Dr started me on Metformin and I started up again( joy joy) for
4 months (dr said the meds were just "squezing out" my last few eggs) and now I haven't had TOM for 2 months

[PaisleyMae]

I am just on my first round, but I have heard that a lot of people just dose through TOM. Especially if your period is erratic like MutantMom (and me) it is really hard to predict and change our plans accordingly. Mine will start and then stop for three days and then start again, etc. I happened to finish my last one the day my hCG came so it worked out well. I have since been feeling like it might be coming back. A lot of people seem to have their TOMs highly influenced by the hCG, meaning it might start back as soon as they start dosing.

For MutantMom--I have read that you should start the hCG AFTER your days of heavy flow so for you that would mean later in your cycle. I don't know that it is that important, especially since you are doing the homeopathic and not the rx, but I am NOT an expert. If it were me because I always have a very light TOM with no heavy days I would honestly probably just start when I got the hCG and not worry about it, but the literature says you should start after your heavy flow days are over...HTH

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by mutantmomof4

Thank you for the information, a bit harsh, but thank you anyways.

I thought loading was simply to replenish your fat reserves? Does one need to be dosing in order to replenish the fat reserves?

Regardless, I am getting in an additional day of fatty foods, can't hurt.

Sorry didn't mean to be harsh! That is me--tell it like it is Dawn. I was known around here for my being very strict with protocol so just bear with me!! I will tell it like it is and some people don't like it. But I don't sugar coat things for the most part. Follow the protocol and you will be rewarded, don't and you risk not having success.

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by PaisleyMae

We are a chatty bunch, my goodness! Everyone is doing fantastically well on all phases! As for me I released 0.3 lb today which is great in my books!!! YAY!!! So I have released a total of -4.9 and am on VLCD5.

RENO --- 11.5 LB?!?!?! YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!! You go girl! And thanks for the compliment! I hope I can maintain my enthusiasm through the ups and downs that I know are to come!


VICTROLA --- IDK what to say about P4 since I'm a newbie and all :blush:, but I will tell you what I think I might do....being PCOS and hypo I do not ever plan to incorporate refined carbs back into my WOE on a regular basis. For this reason, I am not really going to do P4 the way that it is written. I am planning to start out just like you though and add LC pitas, sweet potatoes, etc. I will probably cut most fruit during P3 and do strict Atkins Induction so I will add the fruits back in P4 as well. The only thing I can think of is if you're not planning to eat them and they are making you gain now, if it were me I would stop eating them and go back to P3. I hope that helps because you have worked so hard!

hcground1 --- Thanks so much for the choco delight suggestion!! That sounds delish!!! I used the EVCO the first day because I was so starving and it helped me get through. I am not planning to use it on a regular basis right now, but may experiment with it later because it seems as though a fair number of people tolerate it well on P2 in addition to their 500 cals simply because of being in ketosis. I am not in ketosis yet, however , so I should probably not use it, haha!

Hay --- Great release girl!! Keep your chin up, you are losing HUGE numbers for someone with so little to lose! More than me and I've got 50 lb to go till I reach goal!

LeeAnne

Just a heads up--this is not a ketosis diet you are doing. With the fruit and melbas you may not get there. I personally never used the ketosis sticks during any part of this protocol and lost just fine. The scale doesn't lie!! And yes, coconut oil is a big no-no in P2. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole! This is a low fat diet--don't go and add any in!!!

[PaisleyMae]

Originally Posted by soontobesexy'ntx

I dont have any "words of wisdom" re TOM either
I'm 50 and last year I stopped having my TOM and didnt have one for 6 months my Dr started me on Metformin and I started up again( joy joy) for
4 months (dr said the meds were just "squezing out" my last few eggs) and now I haven't had TOM for 2 months

I am only 25 and didn't have TOM for over 15 months before I was put on Metformin! I have since had two periods (6 weeks apart)! My insulin levels weren't high (8 on 0-17 scale) and neither was my bs (78), but I guess those levels were jsut not working for my body. I did have very high testosterone though Luckily I made it through without any extra hair growth or deepening of the voice!

[FatFatnomore]

Dawn, before I started protocol I read through a lot of the old hcg threads and came across a lot of posts by you and Gracie that basically said stick to protocol, stick to protocol, stick to protocol. It totally made sense to me and was ingrained in my brain at that point, so when it was time for me to start my round I did everything strictly by protocol and I lost a TON of weight in a short amount of time and had a GREAT family vacation because of it. It was the first vacation I enjoyed in about 5 years. So I just wanted to say thanks for "telling it like it is" because you helped me so much!

[debkeversole]

Originally Posted by mutantmomof4

Ok, TOM for me has always been a little strange (PCOS). Mine will start very light and then stop for 2-3 days then start up light again (sometimes it will stop again for another 2-3 days) before it is VERY heavy, I go through this every month, not to mention it never comes on any given day.

I've ready (and just read in the post above) that we should not take the hcg in the first 3 days of TOM...what would each of you consider the first three days for me?

stopping dosing during TOM is mostly for the RX injections i didn't stop while on homeopathic or on sublingual RX but i also only did the short rounds if doing the longer definitely with the RX skip injections during TOM and probably one day a week so that you don't build immunity to it

from what i have read you don't build immunity with the homeopatic

[PaisleyMae]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

LeeAnne

Just a heads up--this is not a ketosis diet you are doing. With the fruit and melbas you may not get there. I personally never used the ketosis sticks during any part of this protocol and lost just fine. The scale doesn't lie!! And yes, coconut oil is a big no-no in P2. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole! This is a low fat diet--don't go and add any in!!!

Thanks Dawn! I haven't been eating the melbas because it is just more carbs than I want to consume...I got the CO idea from the youtube/fb hCG community where it seems to have been used with great success for most people (estimation is at 90% of people who have used it and reported their results). A lot of people in that community also substitute their melbas for a few macadamia nuts. I think of those who use the sticks, many people register in ketosis because of the amount of fat their body is burning not because of dietary fat (unless they're eating CO and mac nuts) since people who are following strict protocol aren't eating any fat I know those alterations ARE NOT Simeons' Protocol so I am not in any way advocating them, just saying what I have found in my research I ate the CO the second day because I was about to pass out or eat my own arm, hah. I think it's one of those things where some people tweak the diet and it works for them, and then others don't or can't Again, I am a NEWBIE so IDK, this is just what I have seen

ETA: I am not planning to use CO regularly and have not used macadamia nuts, these are just things I have learned other places. Dawn, I hope I didn't step on your toes because you are definitely our go-to Mama Bear with the answers to all of our Simeons' Protocol questions!!!

[kimberlybimberly]

Re TOM: My doctor told me not to dose on days of heavy flow.

Re Cabbage: I believe that cabbage (raw) is one of the foods that hypothyroid folks should avoid. Am adding because of protocol - Raw spinach, raw radishes and strawberries are on that list, also, if I am correct.

[Healthy and Happy]

About loading, the guy behind the HHCG spray that I purchased has his own site with forums ect. He says he has done testing on people with and without the spray on loading days and has come to the conclusion that we should not be dosing, (spraying), on loading days because we won't be able to eat enough fat if we do. He used to recommend spraying but no longer does, (for loading days). So I'm doing my loading days without HHCG, today and tomorrow. Starting P2 with the HHCG on Thursday.

[walkingwoman]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Sorry didn't mean to be harsh! That is me--tell it like it is Dawn. I was known around here for my being very strict with protocol so just bear with me!! I will tell it like it is and some people don't like it. But I don't sugar coat things for the most part. Follow the protocol and you will be rewarded, don't and you risk not having success.

R1P2D2vlc
Down 4 pounds so far

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by FatFatnomore

Dawn, before I started protocol I read through a lot of the old hcg threads and came across a lot of posts by you and Gracie that basically said stick to protocol, stick to protocol, stick to protocol. It totally made sense to me and was ingrained in my brain at that point, so when it was time for me to start my round I did everything strictly by protocol and I lost a TON of weight in a short amount of time and had a GREAT family vacation because of it. It was the first vacation I enjoyed in about 5 years. So I just wanted to say thanks for "telling it like it is" because you helped me so much!

Your welcome sweetie!! I was impressed with a past poster too. She did the same whenever anyone would post about tweaking protocol!! She said the same as I do "if it is NOT on the list do NOT do it!" It is her "voice" I hear in my head as I do my P2s!!! I cannot get her out of my head and she was my voice of reason. She got me to where I am today and I am just trying to pass along what helped me. Her name was DeeDee (Diana) if you have seen her past posts. And it took me like 10 times to see it before I would believe it!! I finally got it through my thick head what she was saying was true. I liked her style--simple and to the point. I cannot get any hints unless you hit me over the head!!!!! I have to be told exactly what to do.

[debkeversole]

Originally Posted by thin in 2010

About loading, the guy behind the HHCG spray that I purchased has his own site with forums ect. He says he has done testing on people with and without the spray on loading days and has come to the conclusion that we should not be dosing, (spraying), on loading days because we won't be able to eat enough fat if we do. He used to recommend spraying but no longer does, (for loading days). So I'm doing my loading days without HHCG, today and tomorrow. Starting P2 with the HHCG on Thursday.

honestly that is not the way Dr.S wrote it and EVERYONE and i mean everyone on the boards who haven't dosed while loading has had hunger issues and problems stabilizing i am with Dawn on this stick as close to P&I as possible

and oh yeah you can eat enough fat while dosing on loading days

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by thin in 2010

About loading, the guy behind the HHCG spray that I purchased has his own site with forums ect. He says he has done testing on people with and without the spray on loading days and has come to the conclusion that we should not be dosing, (spraying), on loading days because we won't be able to eat enough fat if we do. He used to recommend spraying but no longer does, (for loading days). So I'm doing my loading days without HHCG, today and tomorrow. Starting P2 with the HHCG on Thursday.

I have seen people NOT do well following his instructions. Be wary!! I have seen the few people on another forum have hunger issues on VLCD #1 and #2 when not dosing and loading. I, personally, would dose and load. These folks that I know that are on the spray purchased last year (and since) when he did NOT have those instructions in place. They fared better when dosing and loading. Be careful!!!!

[dawnyama]

Originally Posted by kimberlybimberly

Re TOM: My doctor told me not to dose on days of heavy flow.

Re Cabbage: I believe that cabbage (raw) is one of the foods that hypothyroid folks should avoid. Am adding because of protocol - Raw spinach, raw radishes and strawberries are on that list, also, if I am correct.

Thanks for bringing that up!! I forgot about that. So those foods should not be eaten raw? The cabbage, radishes, strawberries and spinach?? I cooked my spinach, cabbage and radishes on P2. But not strawberries!!!!

[RenoMom]

Originally Posted by debkeversole

honestly that is not the way Dr.S wrote it and EVERYONE and i mean everyone on the boards who haven't dosed while loading has had hunger issues and problems stabilizing i am with Dawn on this stick as close to P&I as possible

and oh yeah you can eat enough fat while dosing on loading days

ITA and just in my experience from this past weekend, I did do the drops during loading and I was still pretty hungry after day 1-3 of VLCD. I think you need to start on the HHCG so your body gets it in there so you are not starving while starting out on VLC. JMO

[RenoMom]

Originally Posted by dawnyama

Thanks for bringing that up!! I forgot about that. So those foods should not be eaten raw? The cabbage, radishes, strawberries and spinach?? I cooked my spinach, cabbage and radishes on P2. But not strawberries!!!!

I am Hypo and have heard that things like this broccoli soy etc, but I believe there is new research that states it may not be bad for us as once thought.
All I can say is I have had (cooked) cabbage a lot and I ate some strawberries just last night, and nothing has slowed me down yet

[Healthy and Happy]

Hmmm, so you think I should start dosing?

I could spray tonight, and twice tomorrow, (the spray is just twice daily). That would give me 3 doses before P2 day #1. I'm doing OK with the loading so far, low carb, high fat, not too miserable yet, just full.

[PaisleyMae]

Originally Posted by RenoMom

ITA and just in my experience from this past weekend, I did do the drops during loading and I was still pretty hungry after day 1-3 of VLCD. I think you need to start on the HHCG so your body gets it in there so you are not starving while starting out on VLC. JMO

Me too!!! I took my hCG (rx sublingual) both loading days and was still starving on VLCD1-2. I would say definitely take it during loading!