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Old 01-28-2013, 08:35 PM   #31
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I am allergic to the perservatives in most vaccines.
So am I. And I am especially allergic to the preservative in Penicillin shots.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #32
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My kids are teens now and are ok, but I sure am glad I don't have to make these decisions now.

I was teaching at my son's school when I registered him for kinder. I wanted to get it done right away so he could get in the morning class with the teacher I wanted, but I forgot his immunization card. The secretary said I needed to tell her we wanted a religious exemption so she could register him. I brought the card in later. This was in CA.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:21 PM   #33
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There is a lot more to that Wakefield story, and his findings have been replicated by other researchers I believe I read 8 times. All he discovered was that the MMR shot is linked to bowel disorder. Many, many autism parents will tell you that from personal experience, which is why gf/cf diets work so well for these kids.


BTW, the vaccine court has paid out to date over 2 BILLION of our tax dollars to families that have children that were vaccine injured or died as a result of a vaccine reaction. The reason the vaccine manufacturers are not paying is that they lobbied and won the right to be legally exempt of any wrongdoing. So.... where is their motivation to make a safer product for our children? That's right, they have none.

Research the new oil based adjuvants they are using now. They are going to be even more dangerous for our kids.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:37 PM   #34
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So for those of us who still choose to vaccinate, what are some things we should do?
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:31 PM   #35
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Do you have a link for this? I haven't read anywhere that Wakefield confessed to faking it and that he was paid to fake it?
Bobbi, and everyone, I am very sorry, my memory failed me and I confused the Lancet's retraction of the Wakefield study in 2010, Wakefield's own co-authors retracting the autism link, and Wakefield losing his medical license as a confession on his part. Again, I am extremely sorry for this. But the fact that he was paid about a half-a-million (British pounds) by trial lawyers to prove that vaccines were unsafe so they had ammunition of a law suit, has also been uncovered and documented.
My interest in all this started when I had read a story in Discover magazine back in 2009 called "Why Does the Vaccine/Autism Controversy Live On?" (you can find it on their website), which thoroughly debunked the connection. Then a couple years later, the British Medical Journal released a report called "Wakefield’s article linking MMR vaccine and autism was fraudulent" which was published in January of 2011 (you can find that one online, too), and then I read many other articles. I can't remember all of them or where they were. But I do remember reading the details of how he sloppily collected data at birthday parties and cherry picked, and well, just did really bad science.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:47 AM   #36
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So for those of us who still choose to vaccinate, what are some things we should do?
I'd recommend reading Dr. Sears book, The Vaccine Book. He is pro-vaccination, but advocates spreading them out over several years, instead of having infants get most of them before they turn a year old. He includes some alternate schedules in the book too
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:07 AM   #37
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I'd recommend reading Dr. Sears book, The Vaccine Book. He is pro-vaccination, but advocates spreading them out over several years, instead of having infants get most of them before they turn a year old. He includes some alternate schedules in the book too
That's what I would recommend too. Spread them out. And I would personally put the MMR shot off until the child is 4 or so, and hopefully by then they will have separate shots available again.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:27 AM   #38
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*Going out on a limb here because this is not a "popular" stand on this issue, but I think the other side needs to be heard*

I sincerely feel empathy for anyone who believes that vaccines made their children sick. However, I am pro-immunization. My reasoning behind that is the extensive studies I have done about the diseases that killed thousands of babies and children and had nearly been eradicated until recent years when the anti-vax opinion started becoming widespread.

It is an unfortunate coincidence that the symptoms of autism begin to appear around the time of the shots that are blamed for that. However, there have been many studies that indicate that the incidence of ASD symptoms in the non-vax community are just as high as the vax community and that they develop at the same time in children with no vaccines.

Medical journal/university articles:
Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses
http://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-an...inestudies.pdf
Autism in the absence of MMR vaccine


My oldest is ASD (aspergers). We were a stay-at-home/attachment family and I held off on vaccines and did a very delayed/spread out schedule for my children. He had not had any immunizations by the age of 2.5, when they first suggested ASD. He had regressed in speech, had delayed walking (23 months), was in his own world etc. He was significantly affected by the time he got his MMR at 3.5 years old. My youngest had the same delayed schedule of immunizations and he developed a seizure disorder. He started having seizures before he had a single immunization. There are a significant number of kids who would have ASD or seizures in the general population without vaccines, but the people who are worried about immunizations fail to consider that. As far as the next argument that people always throw at me...yes, there are more children diagnosed with ASD because we understand more about it now. In years past, my son would be considered the "weird kid" - the one with no social skills, the one who doesn't like to talk (though he does have age appropriate language skills), the one who occasionally (though he succeeds in a traditional age-appropriate curriculum) will at times go stand with his eyes 2 inches from the wall and tap his pencil for a few minutes right by his ear so he can "calm down". Now we understand that those behaviors are indicative of another issue.

Again, for any parent to attributes their child's illness to vaccines, I feel sincere empathy. However, my kids both have health issues that could have been contributed to vaccines if they had been given the vaccines prior to the onset of their symptoms...but they were not. It is important to compare the incidence of these disorders in non-vax vs. vax kids and see if there is any higher incidence. I think that when there is this insistence that the vaccine caused the illness it is possible that it is a denial reaction on the part of the parents - that there is no way they have a special needs kid without there being some external cause. These disorders just happen, I don't really see how it could help to be able to blame someone but it must for some. I firmly do not believe, however, that any money should be awarded from the government to these individuals. We already have in place a wonderful array of services for special needs kids through the public school system and adults with disabilities. It may not be easy to get them, it may require extra effort, but that is what the rest of us have to do.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #39
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I'd recommend reading Dr. Sears book, The Vaccine Book. He is pro-vaccination, but advocates spreading them out over several years, instead of having infants get most of them before they turn a year old. He includes some alternate schedules in the book too
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That's what I would recommend too. Spread them out. And I would personally put the MMR shot off until the child is 4 or so, and hopefully by then they will have separate shots available again.
Yep, me three. I found this book to be helpful and not just scare you stupid kind of mentality. It actually gives some helpful advice and information. It's not perfect but the best thing out there.

Some other things I have read is never take the child while sick and do a delayed schedule. Also, there are different supplements that you can have your child on to strengthen the immune system that will help them deal with the vaccine. We do fermented cod liver oil. I think the Weston A Price site has more info.

It is confusing and overwhelming. And so frustrating the way the medical community treats people about this. There are OBVIOUSLY issues as there is a injury fund set up for victims of vaccine issues... And the fact that in no way do the vaccine manufacturers have any liability in the issue. I personally don't feel that good scientific based studies have been set up and fully researched. IMO... it is easy to say no scientific study has proven any links when no good ones have been done. Even Dr Sears, who I feel, really wants to say that vaccines are safe doesn't feel good studies have been done and a lot of things haven't been addressed - like safe levels of aluminium in vaccines.

Christa, I understand your point. I don't know who is right or wrong. I suspect we all are to a certain degree. I think that there are kids who will get ASD and it has nothing to do with vaccines. I know there are kids that get vaccines and never get ASD (or have any problems). But, I throw this out for you. What if your delayed schedule did not elevate the ASD? Meaning, it may be that children in your family that have some 'ASD Button' may have had a more severe level of ASD if you had not done the delayed plan (or none at all). I don't know. I really don't want to get into a huge debate - I respect your position on it and just would appreciate the same towards me and others that feel as I do.

Diva, drop a grenade and run why don't you? Like Luke in Modern Family that likes to drop those verbal grenades and watch the fallout. But thanks for posting this.

bobbi

Last edited by bobbi; 01-29-2013 at 06:26 AM..
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:31 AM   #40
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Bobbi, and everyone, I am very sorry, my memory failed me and I confused the Lancet's retraction of the Wakefield study in 2010, Wakefield's own co-authors retracting the autism link, and Wakefield losing his medical license as a confession on his part. Again, I am extremely sorry for this. But the fact that he was paid about a half-a-million (British pounds) by trial lawyers to prove that vaccines were unsafe so they had ammunition of a law suit, has also been uncovered and documented.
My interest in all this started when I had read a story in Discover magazine back in 2009 called "Why Does the Vaccine/Autism Controversy Live On?" (you can find it on their website), which thoroughly debunked the connection. Then a couple years later, the British Medical Journal released a report called "Wakefield’s article linking MMR vaccine and autism was fraudulent" which was published in January of 2011 (you can find that one online, too), and then I read many other articles. I can't remember all of them or where they were. But I do remember reading the details of how he sloppily collected data at birthday parties and cherry picked, and well, just did really bad science.
Yes, I understand all of this. I just think that your first quote spreads further mis-information to people that are struggling with finding accurate information. Thank you for clarifying.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:33 AM   #41
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That's what I would recommend too. Spread them out. And I would personally put the MMR shot off until the child is 4 or so, and hopefully by then they will have separate shots available again.
That is what I keep hoping for. He would be vaccinated by now if they had single doses available of all the multi shot vaccines (even for extra $).

And this is why I get so frustrated. There are many of us that want to do it but don't feel the options are safe enough. But we are vilified because of decisions the drug manufacturers make.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:39 AM   #42
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Yep, me three. I found this book to be helpful and not just scare you stupid kind of mentality. It actually gives some helpful advice and information. It's not perfect but the best thing out there.

Some other things I have read is never take the child while sick and do a delayed schedule. Also, there are different supplements that you can have your child on to strengthen the immune system that will help them deal with the vaccine. We do fermented cod live oil. I think the Weson A Price site has more info.

It is confusing and overwhelming. And so frustrating the way the medical community treats people about this. There are OBVIOUSLY issues as there is a injury fund set up for victims of vaccine issues... And the fact that in no way do the vaccine manufacturers have any liability in the issue. I personally don't feel that good scientific based studies have been set up and fully researched. IMO... it is easy to say no scientific study has proven any links when no good ones have been done. Even Dr Sears, who I feel, really wants to say that vaccines are safe doesn't feel good studies have been done and a lot of things haven't been addressed - like safe levels of aluminium in vaccines.

Christa, I understand your point. I don't know who is right or wrong. I suspect we all are to a certain degree. I think that there are kids who will get ASD and it has nothing to do with vaccines. I know there are kids that get vaccines and never get ASD (or have any problems). But, I throw this out for you. What if your delayed schedule did not elevate the ASD? Meaning, it may be that children in your family that have some 'ASD Button' may have had a more severe level of ASD if you had not done the delayed plan (or none at all). I don't know. I really don't want to get into a huge debate - I respect your position on it and just would appreciate the same towards me and others that feel as I do.

Diva, drop a grenade and run why don't you? Like Luke in Modern Family that likes to drop those verbal grenades and watch the fallout. But thanks for posting this.

bobbi


Here's an interesting study that just came out regarding the benefits of a delayed schedule. I highly recommend Dr. Sears and his Vaccine Book if you are interested in spreading out the shots for your child. Also, a book called Vaccine Epidemic which goes even further into the science of why autism and other disorders have skyrocketed since 1983 when the childhood schedule only included 10 shots. Now the number is 36 vaccines and counting, many of which are combination vaccines.
Study Finds Infants Toddlers on "Slower" Vaccine Schedule Have Fewer Outpatient and ER Visits - AGE OF AUTISM
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:42 AM   #43
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Here's a visual of the increase in recommended shots since 1983:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vax Front.jpg (25.8 KB, 9 views)
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:17 PM   #44
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hasn't it been proved over and over and over that this is silly? I believe it has.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:21 PM   #45
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Proven how?
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:34 PM   #46
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hasn't it been proved over and over and over that this is silly? I believe it has.
tell that to the two families in the link with those two children...
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:17 PM   #47
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It's silly that over 2 Billion of our tax dollars have been paid out via federal vaccine court to families of children damaged or killed by vaccines? It's affecting much more than 2 families.

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Old 01-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #48
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Christa I have a question...

Often when you read the accounts of people who believe their children were harmed by vaccines they say the symptoms came on suddenly- "one day he was fine and the next he wasn't" kind of thing. Did you see that with your kids?

I think now that people are choosing not to vaccinate or doing so on a delayed schedule, we will see just how many cases of autism there are in non-vaxed kids.

It seems the symptoms of autism show themselves about the same time as kids are vaxed, and with all the vaccines they recommend now I bet kids are in the doctors office quite often. Anything that shows up in babies/toddlers will show up around a vaccine.

I remember learning in economics about the fallacy of ad hoc ergo propter hoc- just because something came before something else doesn't mean the first caused the second. Just because vaccines come before symptoms doesn't necessarily mean they cause them. Does going to first grade make kids' teeth fall out? I would say 99% of first graders are missing teeth, so it must right?

Myself, I think it is a money-making scam by big pharma. Invent a vax for some disease (like chicken pox) and scare doctors into telling patients to get it. Because you know if you are a doc and there is a vaccine and you don't recommend it and one of your patients gets the disease, you are likely to get sued. The docs in turn lean on whatever agency controls these things to say the vax is recommended so they are covered. No one can sue them for recommending it, no matter what happens because it is standard protocol.

Patients are the ones getting hurt because their needs are not the driving force behind policy. Money is.

I don't know what to think. I am glad I don't have to make the decision.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:03 PM   #49
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This was posted on FB by an autism parent today, linked to the following testimony.


‎"it is just so sad these poor parents are desperate to believe anything. I mean, autism is tragic. I understand. But they latch on to these conspiracy theories and well, we all know vaccines do not cause autism. I feel bad for them. There is nothing there but they just want to believe so badly."
************************************

"There are now over 100 studies that show the link between vaccines and autism. We do not believe in conspiracy theory, we believe in scientific theory. If you ever read the studies that say there is no link you find there was no control group. That's not science. That's deflection. You are deflecting attention deflecting focus and inhibiting medical discovery. That is the opposite of science. We find your stance both ignorant and laughable. If you want answers you talk to the parents and the doctors' whose own children became ill. That's where you find the truth. You learn how to discuss mitochondrial disease, methylation cycles, metabolic diseases, cytokines. WE TALK ABOUT THE SCIENCE.

From now on, think of all the people you see talking about "vaccine safety" as salesmen. Because that is what they are. Not doctors. Certainly not scientists. Just, representatives of tobacco. Er, I mean, vaccines. WISE UP. I've grown tired of this foolishness. Our kids need us. And you are getting dangerously close--with this insipid banter--to us abandoning you altogether. And then where the hell would you be. Oh, wait--that's right, exactly where you are. On the couch with your remote, spitting out everything the machine would like you to say. Carry on.

I am going to heal my kid and change history. What will it say on your headstone? Liked pizza? Had good hair? Only cheated that one time?

Think about it. Reaaaaaaaaaally. Instead of living vicariously through "your shows" how about waking up to the greatest injustice the medical crimes against children taking place every day. How about you do something about it. LISTEN. Get involved. SAVE A CHILD'S LIFE!!!!

Brian Hooker's Testimony From Congressional Autism Hearing - AGE OF AUTISM
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:10 AM   #50
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A good place for real information

The debate over the causes of Autism and other conditions on the spectrum will continue forever, I'm afraid. This is a really good site for factual information about the latest news.


Association for Science in Autism Treatment

They also have a FACEBOOK page.
https://www.facebook.com/ASATonline
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:27 PM   #51
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I'm going to check out these links. Every time I read about lawsuits being settled for millions, I get suspicious. I don't know if there is a positive link, but I do feel like we don't know all the facts.
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