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Old 05-26-2009, 08:29 AM   #181
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.. but the doctor said something about forcing out my symptoms will give me endorphine shots, making it addictive)
I can so agree with that. In my 20s, I often said that it's easier for me to eat very little, or alot. Eating very little actually gave me a little bit of a high. So I spent most of my life up until my mid 30s eating low cal. And yeah, I could describe it as an endorphin high - like a runners high. I had been thinking about that high lately & couldn't put my finger on what it was.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:13 AM   #182
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I can so agree with that. In my 20s, I often said that it's easier for me to eat very little, or alot. Eating very little actually gave me a little bit of a high. So I spent most of my life up until my mid 30s eating low cal. And yeah, I could describe it as an endorphin high - like a runners high. I had been thinking about that high lately & couldn't put my finger on what it was.
Yes a runner's high, that was exactly the comparison the doctor made aswell . Ah so I guess the urge to not eat isn't that uncommon.

I found something very interesting: Those durn Adrenals!! | Stop The Thyroid Madness

Some tests to check if there is something wrong with your adrenals. I'm gonna do the blood pressure and body temperature tests in the weekend, as I don't have a thermometer or a pressuremeter here.. but I already did the pupil test and they fluctuated exactly like in the youtube video! I'm also more sensitive to bright lights and loid noises, like they said. I always turn off bright overhead lamps, whereas they don't seem to bother other people.

Now only to find out how I can get all this stuff tested.. I'm kinda feeling like just going to a hospital and demanding a complete check-up of my adrenals and thyroid. Don't know if they would comply though :/
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:23 AM   #183
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I bet that 'runners high' is why we are where we are right now. Long run- it probably promotes burning out of the adrenals & other endocrine glands.

Stop the Thyroid madness is a good website. Will read that article later.

Do you have a government health system in Belgium or private insurance?
I'm just wondering if maybe you could find a regional website for belgium to locate a health practitioner who can help. I doubt a hospital will be compliant if your health system is anything like in the U.S. You'd have to go in with severe symptoms to get a full workup.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:27 AM   #184
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And yup, I'm very sensitive to excess stimuli. Noise, lights. It's the stress coping factor. I have often likened it to what someone with autism must feel. But when I was doing well, I could handle anything. I've had alot of stress in my life, and I knew it would catch up with me eventually. Ironically, it happened when stress died down, and then a couple major stresses cropped up (a death, and a sibling with alcohol addiction that me & my other brother had to do our own intervention). Personally, if I had one more major life stressor happen now, I think it'd bowl me over. I don't even think it would have to be really major either.

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Old 05-26-2009, 09:36 AM   #185
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I found someone referring to this website for alternative medicine on a belgium expat forum:
Home

I can't read it of course! lol
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:16 AM   #186
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Hm that's a Health Insurance website.. I can't really go around changing my health insurance lol . The health system is governemental btw.. it's pretty good, I think better than in the US (atleast from as far as I heard). The biggest problem is that a doctor is a person of authority, they want to assist people from their own knowledge. You can't really barge in and tell them what's up and demand to have them do everything your way.

But there are ways, it's just uncomfortable. I did 3 doctors visits where I just wanted to get a nystatine prescription for my candida. As far as they are concerned, candida is just a normal bacteria everyone has. I had to do a lot of arguing but I did get 7 weeks worth of nystatine prescriptions. I'll have to think of a solid argumentation before I go see another doctor. Or go to some of the people I know personally, that are doctors - but it feels really uncomfortable to discuss my problems with them. I mean I don't talk about this stuff with anyone, just on this forum I've sent an email to the guy who got me the blood tests for my intolerances done, maybe he can help.

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Old 05-26-2009, 10:32 AM   #187
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You can't really barge in and tell them what's up and demand to have them do everything your way.
I do that to my endoc all the time. I'm lucky that we work as a team. She knows I know my stuff (as much as a layperson can) and she listens to me. Sometimes I'm on the right track, and sometimes she's right. But you're right. Most doctors, ego gets in the way. They want to be the one of authority. The thing is, the ones with the ego don't really listen. I mean REALLY listen. They just look at bloodwork for their clues. So sometimes nothing gets figured out.

It sounds like that is a good route to get what you need from the doctors you personally know.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:13 AM   #188
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jack, it looks like your diet has a mix of good with the bad. and of course finish with your exams before making any big changes. I bet low carb will help you in the long haul, but the first few weeks can be pretty rough when you go through sugar withdrawal. I'm glad to see you have some good stuff in your diet though.

That's interesting that you're allergic to caffeine, I was actually going to recommend trying a little lower carb and add some caffeine in to help with the exhaustion, but that won't work.

About the docs, perhaps go in and tell them you have a family history of thyroid disease and you want to get it tested (whether or not you in fact have such a family history). Tell them you want to catch it early on so that you can do as much as possible to minimize the effects of it. Over here the docs never try to verify this information. The stop the thyroid madness website has all the tests you should ask for along with the cortisol tests.

oh also, over here you can call a pharmacy and ask if there are any doctors in the area that prescribe armour thyroid. since you're just asking about the doctor and not which patients are getting the meds, they'll tell you. i'm not sure how the privacy issues work over there, but you might give it a try. you can call and say you are new to the area and want a doctor who knows how to properly prescribe and dose armour thyroid and if they can give you a list of some of the docs that would be helpful. Over here the pharmacy can't "recommend" a doc, but they can give you a list.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:20 PM   #189
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Meb, that's a good idea! Lie if ya have to. I would, if I was banging my head against a wall, and couldn't get anyone's attention. You could also say some immediate family members have Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome (MEN1 & MEN2) which are genetic dispositions for endocrine disorders/endocrine cancer. That'll get their attention. Of course, this won't work with a dr. you've already been to.
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:15 PM   #190
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haha I'll keep that in mind if everything else fails . I've already been to 5 different doctors though with my many complaints lol.. (not about adrenals or thyroid tho)

edit: actually, I think 6.. 2 doctors to get nystatine prescriptions, 1 doctor for anxiety and he said i just had 'hypertension' and should relax more (like I do anything but relax), 1 doctor for anxiety cuz I wanted sleeping pills and benzos, and finally 2 doctors for hypoglycemia. I'm such a doctor wh0re

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Old 05-26-2009, 03:31 PM   #191
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haha I'll keep that in mind if everything else fails . I've already been to 5 different doctors though with my many complaints lol.. (not about adrenals or thyroid tho)

edit: actually, I think 6.. 2 doctors to get nystatine prescriptions, 1 doctor for anxiety and he said i just had 'hypertension' and should relax more (like I do anything but relax), 1 doctor for anxiety cuz I wanted sleeping pills and benzos, and finally 2 doctors for hypoglycemia. I'm such a doctor wh0re
Lol, not me. I have total doctor burnout! Interesting you said hypertension - did he mean that literally or in an anxiety kind of way?
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:39 PM   #192
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The english word might mean something else than the dutch word 'hypertensie' (it doesn't refer to blood pressure). It basically means I'm always in a state of stress, my muscles are always tense. He did the reflex test where you knock the bottom of your knee, causing your lower leg to jump forward. In non-tense people if you do this repeatedly, the effects wane. With me (or hyper tense people in general) the leg keeps shooting out no matter how many times you do it.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:17 PM   #193
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The english word might mean something else than the dutch word 'hypertensie' (it doesn't refer to blood pressure). It basically means I'm always in a state of stress, my muscles are always tense. He did the reflex test where you knock the bottom of your knee, causing your lower leg to jump forward. In non-tense people if you do this repeatedly, the effects wane. With me (or hyper tense people in general) the leg keeps shooting out no matter how many times you do it.
Hmm, I have strong reflexes too. But again, just because your stressed doesn't mean it's in your head. Cortisol is the stress hormone. These dr's need to go back to medical school.
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Old 05-26-2009, 05:45 PM   #194
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There was nothing at that time stressing me out, psychologically. Can a cortisol deficiency explain these hyper sense symptoms you think?
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Old 05-26-2009, 06:29 PM   #195
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There was nothing at that time stressing me out, psychologically. Can a cortisol deficiency explain these hyper sense symptoms you think?
I'm not really sure. I never looked into the reflex connection. My endoc just acted surprised, but didn't say exactly what it meant. I thought she was just super pleased.

All kidding aside, I always thought overactive reflexes had something to do with the motor-sympathic system, or something like that? I probably got the correct medical term wrong.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:25 PM   #196
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Grr can't sleep again, so I got up to eat something, hope this'll help :/

Anyway, I don't get what you are saying.. you just called your endoc to ask about this? :P

But it's really simple I think. In people who are normal and calm, you can do the reflex test, and after a while their muscles will start to relax because they expect the 'thump' and you won't get the reflex reaction anymore. But if you are very stressed (let's say your bussiness is on the verge of bankrupcy) your body gets tense, and your muscles will never relax, no matter how many times they do the reflex test. So it has to do with mental stress, has nothing to do with motorskill malfunctions or whatever

I always thought I had this hypertension because of the constant flow of adrenaline after hypoglycemic fits.. but now I am thinking, maybe it is caused by a lack of cortisol? That was my question
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:44 PM   #197
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I was referring to my previous post in that when she checked my reflexes at one time, and I had the over-reaction. And what I meant is that I never heard of a connection of cortisol to reflexes. Doesn't mean there isn't one of course. Just that I never heard it. Could be from a lack of magnesium too, since magnesium relaxes muscles.

And as far as I know, there is a connection of at least some reflexes to the brain, if not other "systems". For example the reflex at the bottom of the foot, since they used that to test the degree of brain damage when my Dad was in a coma. And I know someone who's dr. also used the lack of a reflex as a clue to some kind of muscle or nervous system disease.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:53 PM   #198
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Hm there is no direct connection between cortisol and reflexes. The reflex test is used to test if you are very tense. When you are very tense, that is because you feel stressed. So is there a connection between feeling stressed (even though there is nothing going on that stresses you) and lack of cortisol?

Btw I remember you saying that the adrenaline saliva test was banned in Belgium. Where did you find that? And is it also banned in Holland, France or Germany? Otherwise I could send it there
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:04 PM   #199
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Oh, I see what you were saying. I thought you were asking for the direct connection between reflexes & cortisol.

Yes, there is a direct connection to stress & cortisol. It's the "stress" hormone. If it's low, you won't be able to handle very much of it.

I said that saliva testing is illegal in NY, and I think also california. Go onto any saliva testing site, and just go into their faq's or shipping section to see where they won't ship to. If you don't see anything, see if you can just fill out a fake order to see if it allows you to select Belgium.
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Old 05-27-2009, 04:04 AM   #200
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Yes, there is a direct connection to stress & cortisol. It's the "stress" hormone. If it's low, you won't be able to handle very much of it.
Yes I know that, but will a low cortisol count have you feeling stressed and tense all day long?

I ask because I always kinda feel like that, and I thought it was from constant adrenaline due to my hypoglycemia. But if it is from low cortisol that would explain why a sugarfree diet didn't relieve these stress symptoms!

Oh and I had the low blood sugar shoot-up-straight outbursts again when I tried to sleep, so I ate some cheese and ham and they were gone. I woke up after only 5 hours of sleep tho, very annoying.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:31 PM   #201
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Yes I know that, but will a low cortisol count have you feeling stressed and tense all day long?

I ask because I always kinda feel like that, and I thought it was from constant adrenaline due to my hypoglycemia. But if it is from low cortisol that would explain why a sugarfree diet didn't relieve these stress symptoms!

Oh and I had the low blood sugar shoot-up-straight outbursts again when I tried to sleep, so I ate some cheese and ham and they were gone. I woke up after only 5 hours of sleep tho, very annoying.
Yes, low cortisol can make you feel stressed. High cortisol can actually almost feel the same way, but more angry, annoyed - but also the inability to deal with stress too. I've felt the highs when I was on high dose steroids, but it's really hard to explain the difference. But there is. Mostly in the fatigue level. I felt I guess you could say "energetic" on steroids, fatigued off them. You can also poop out your cortisol at night if you've actually been stressed. Since stress can also send your levels high during the day, and then you have nothing left for the night. So stress management is very important to conserve what cortisol your body puts out daily. And there is only so much.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:20 AM   #202
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Hm I did more of the tests at:
Those durn Adrenals!! | Stop The Thyroid Madness

My pupil test (their inability to stay constricted) showed that I had too little aldosterone. Due to a lack of aldosterone my sodium and potassium levels are out of whack.

Yet when I did the blood pressure test, my blood pressure didn't drop when I stood up. My heart rate nearly doubled tho. This should also be an aldosterone side-effect, so that's conflicting information there.
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when [aldosterone] gets too low, which can be common in patients with cortisol deficiency, your kidneys will excrete too much salt, and it leads to low blood pressure; low blood volume; a high pulse and/or palpitations, dizziness and or lightheadedness when you stand; fatigue; and a craving for salt. Symptoms of low aldosterone can also include frequent urination, sweating, and a feeling of thirst, besides the craving of salt.
I do get the frequent urination, sweating, thirst, palpitations.. not really low blood pressure or dizziness when standing.. salt cravings to some degree but not excessive.

I'm doing the temperature test now, but it'll take 5 days to get the results.. this one supposedly correlates with cortisol (the one I'm mainly interested in).

I also found that I can just buy 20mg Cortef (50 tablets for $52) online. Maybe that's not such a bad idea, to see if it helps me? My first exam is on tuesday and that's always a stressful situation so I can use all the help I can get.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:20 AM   #203
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Jackvance,

Taking cortef or other steroids is very complicated on your own. If you're on long enough or high enough doses, it could atrophy your adrenals to where they won't come back on their own. In addition, sometimes weaning takes a loooong time. It took me 3 mos. to wean down last time just on the last 5mg. Also, because of that, you won't get a reliable test for cortisol or other adrenal hormones. And cortisol isn't always the answer. Sometimes it's the salt/aldosterone equation, in which you need Florinef - and some people don't even use it - they try to deal with it by taking in addition sodium.

If you aren't on a low carb diet, I would urge you to try maca - or other more natural supplements. Glycerized licorice, isocort, rhodiola, (helps with adrenals/stress) sarsaparilla and then be diligent about getting in your salt. Someone I know who has adrenal problems told me that "maca magic" is helping her alot. I'm not sure if I have the name right, but I know it at the very least has maca & sarsaparilla in it. I only moved to steroids when I had exhausted other routes & I had an extremely low reading, as well as an addison's crisis.

Just my humble opinion.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:28 AM   #204
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I think this is the formula:

Maca Magic - Maca Magic AdrenaLift - 2 oz

I've used both maca & sarsaparilla in the past. Maca worked well for me at one time for energy. Sarsaparilla gets rid of my joint pain, so I know it is doing something for the cortisol. I haven't used it in a while though. I never recommended maca here because it is made from a turnip like plant, and don't know if it is considered low carb. Certainly not high carb though.

ETA: Looks like this website created a double link on that - click the first (vitamin warehouse, not netrition.com)
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:31 AM   #205
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jack, cortef is prescription only over here so i am using isocort, a less potent over-the-counter cortisol. my total for the ENTIRE day is 20mg, so if you get the cortef, i would cut it into 4 or 5 pieces depending on how small it is. take it 2 morning, 1 noon, 1 afternoon to spread it throughout the day. Also, I wouldn't start out on the full dose. I could feel my heart rate go up just by adding in an additional 2.5mg for myself. Pay close attention to your symptoms too.

I was using licorice but didn't really notice any difference, but it might work better for others.

I'm self-medicating with cortisol and I know it might not be a good idea, but I've also had the saliva test done which showed my cortisol was non-existent. If I were you I would try to get the saliva test done and if nobody will do it then to start on very small amounts of the cortef just to see if there is any improvement. Small dose being 2.5mg or 5mg for the entire day.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:20 AM   #206
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Is isocort potent enough to help though? Isocort | Stop The Thyroid Madness
And cortef is prescription only here also, but apparently you can buy it online nonetheless.

And I'm definately low on aldosterone, as I have most of the associated symptoms, including pupils that's can't contract properly (which probably is what gives me intolerance to bright light and blurred vision). I'll have to see about that.

Btw I wonder what causes the hypoglycemic dips. I know adrenals are involved in the glucose production process, so that is probably it. But which one.. is it aldosterone, cortisol, something else? Would be nice to get that out of the way so I can get over my sugar/cigarette addictions
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:32 AM   #207
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Jack:

Try the isocort first before rx. The rx is something you want to try when nothing else is working. Licorice also did not work for me. But it does for some. Get your needed sleep. Don't stay up late at night. Do some meditation, exercise, yoga, deep breathing etc. to lower you stress levels. Even if it's 10 min a day. Eat right. They all have to be done to heal your adrenals. Your adrenals need nutrition. Yes, cortisol is one of the things that helps keep up blood sugar.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:48 AM   #208
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This is from the mfg of adrenalift. Very helpful info:

Quote:
THE EFFECTS OF ADRENAL GLANDS:
The effect of the Adrenals and how they work:
Scientists believe proper functioning of the adrenal glands contribute directly to a persons attitude and longevity, as well as provide the mind with a healthy outlook on life and give spirit and body with the momentum to accomplish goals. While the adrenals are well known for the release of adrenalin for the fight or flight response, the adrenal glands are also responsible for the way the body converts carbohydrates, fats and proteins into energy.
Two tiny adrenal glands sit atop your kidney and supply chemicals to the blood and brain which all play a part in controlling almost every major function of the body. These adrenals regulate and control stress modes, energy levels, attitude and regulate fat metabolism and protein uptake. To do this the adrenal glands release dozens of hormones into the blood stream every moment of the day and night and affect the workings of every tissue and organ in your body.

What else do they do?
Just as interestingly, the adrenal glands excrete anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant hormones that protect against allergic reaction to foods or poisons entering the body from alcohol, chemicals and even poisons that are made within your own body when you are sick or toxic from improper food combinations. Proper adrenal function helps the body eliminate and control the wastes and poisons that enter the body. This is perhaps why, like the liver, the adrenal glands are also one of the first glands to show signs of fatigue. The adrenals are very difficult to rebuild once they have become damaged or begin to atrophy due to age or over abuse.

PROBLEMS WITH THE ADRENALS:
Causes of adrenal problems:
Causes of adrenal problems usually relate to: • Overeating of sugar • Caffeine • On-going stress • Relationship problems • Smoking • Abuse of drugs and alcohol • Lack of sleep • Emotional stress • Toxins from an improper diet • Injury

What are the signs of adrenal exhaustion
What is Addison’s disease? What is hypoadrenia? Physical or emotional stress can deplete the adrenal glands. Erratic blood sugar swings, elevated anxiety, memory and recall problems, increased back pain and tension are often signs of hypoadrenia, Addison’s disease, and of adrenal exhaustion.
Adrenalift - Precise herbal therapy for the human adrenal glands- Herbs America Company

You can get it much cheaper from the link I gave you, or from Iherb or something like that.

I'm extracting myself from the computer today to get some stress relief myself so will be back tomorrow!!
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:04 AM   #209
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I have to have cortisol deficiencies then. They seem to come in pair with aldosterone anyway.
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I'm extracting myself from the computer today to get some stress relief myself so will be back tomorrow!!
Ok have fun And thx for the help
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:10 AM   #210
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Stats: 179.7/164.0/125-130 "LDW" 164.0
WOE: HHCG
Start Date: 5/19/09
Oh one more thing. Sarsaparilla contains supposedly the precursor to "Cortin", which is by definition:

Cortin: "the active principle of the adrenal cortex now known to consist of several hormones"

I'm giving that a shot myself today. Used it before, but I think I need a "real" dose this time.

Going away now! Damn computer is so addicting. Kick my butt if you see me on here again.
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