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Old 05-21-2009, 03:04 PM   #151
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jack

MD's (or what you refer to as doctor with a degree) do NOT recognize adrenal fatigue so they don't do anything about it. As for the thyroid, just have a look at the thyroid forum and see how many posts are from those who have to go to doctor to doctor to doctor and finally get someone to see more than the numbers. I was told 10 years ago that my TSH was normal therefore I didn't have a thyroid problem. That was that. I now know better. I don't know where you are but it is very hard to find good quality medical care over here in the states!! At least that is for something that doesn't require surgery!! My doctor is a DO ( doctor of osteopathy) as well as a board certified MD. I travel 100 miles one way to see her and she is worth every penny. I wish you luck in finding a good one!!
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:47 PM   #152
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It is equally hard here in Belgium. I've gone to doctors for Candida and for hypoglycemia, and they just don't believe me, but atleast they have humoured me :P. (I got my nystatine prescriptions even though he didn't see the point)

I'm mainly interested in finding out if there is something wrong with my thyroid, and if I have adrenal fatigue. They might be fine. But ofcourse, if there is a problem, then comes the arduous task of getting help :P

EDIT: Oh yeah.. a niece and a nephew of mine, are doctors. The sister of a good friend of mine is a doctor (and she likes me). My cousin married a doctor who has her practice not far from where I live. There are options

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Old 05-21-2009, 05:16 PM   #153
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jack,

Just so you know, my doctor diagnosed me on suspicion of adrenal fatigue. I went in thinking I had a thyroid problem...turns out my thyroid is not really OK, although on the bloodwork it looked fine to me, but my adrenals need to be fixed before my thyroid can be fixed. That was confirmed not by a blood test but by a hair analysis. There is no blood test for adrenals. The adrenals can also be checked through a saliva test--you need the 4 times a day kind not the once a day one. I am not sure if they do those in Belgium, but that is what you should be asking for. So, I am currently doing the stuff for adrenals and then will look into thyroid treatment. I am also having blood sugar problems. For that she has me taking chromium picolinate with each meal. Basically, for my adrenal fatigue she thinks my "poor diet" is to blame so she thinks that by changing my eating she can fix the adrenals. That and supplementation. Once I went off caffeine I started needing a nap in the afternoons. Not good for someone who was fatigued to begin with!! Sounds like you have your bases covered with the docs--I just hope that one of them will be OK with getting you the tests you need. Maybe you and they can be educated together!!
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:37 PM   #154
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Sigh . That's what I'm afraid of. But what do you mean a natural doctor? Homeopathy? Because I'll need to get a doctor with a real degree on board if I want to get some thyroid or adrenal hormones prescribed no? :/
I meant a naturopath or holistic MD. MD's can prescribe. The other ladies might know if a naturopath can prescribe. There's also the option of an osteopath who looks at the body as a whole. But I've never been to one, so not sure how 'alternative' they are.
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:41 PM   #155
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Oops, totally missed Page 6! I didn't realize DO meant Doctor of osteopathy.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:59 AM   #156
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Yeah, a DO can do amazing things. They tend to look at things as a whole versus parts and pieces. My DO has taken all my symptoms and put them together, whereas if you go to a conventional MD they would give you a pill for one thing and another pill for the other thing not realizing that one thing could be causing ALL your problems! My mom has hypothyroidism and is on several "unnecessary" meds for things that the thyroid is causing, including anxiety, cholesterol meds. If she would have her thyroid correctly medicated she could be off all her other meds.

You know how all these docs over here are so specialized these days. My stepdad went to an orthopedist because he is having joint pain upon standing and when getting up from laying down. Well, the "hip specialist" wants to do a hip replacement. My stepdad doesn't want a new hip. He asked about a procedure that his friend had to cure the pain. The doc said "why did you see me if you want that done"? So he is no longer seeing the ortho for that problem! He is seeing a pain management doctor for cortisone shots. Not what he was expecting either, but at least it takes out the surgery aspect!! Some of these docs and their egos, geesh!!
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:52 AM   #157
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wow dawn, docs can really be crazy!

generally naturopaths CANNOT prescribe, but some of them also are "real" doctors so then they can. mine can't, but she knows all the blood tests i need to ask my other doc to do and she started me on a special vitamin b product to help heal my dysplasia. supplements and food can heal too, but it is mostly only the thyroid hormones that you NEED a prescription for, in the US there are no over the counter thyroid drugs.

jack, it is possible to start yourself on a little bit of cortisone and see if you notice any difference. we have isocort here in the US which is over the counter, but most other cortisone products are prescription. if you read the reviews for the uses of cortisol book, one of the reviewers gives out a lot of info from the book and one of the things it says is that docs shouldn't be afraid of starting a patient on a little cortisol to see if they notice any improvement. not saying you should necessarily do this, but if you think that might really be the problem it might be worth trying.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:28 AM   #158
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I have some DHEA, will that work also?

And on monday morning I'm gonna see a doctor and hopefully I can get some thyroid and adrenaline tests done!
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:45 AM   #159
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I have some DHEA, will that work also?

And on monday morning I'm gonna see a doctor and hopefully I can get some thyroid and adrenaline tests done!
It may or it may not. You can have high DHEA & poor adrenal function. I use to have high DHEA-S, and then it dropped when my cortisol dropped.

You could try it out. Just a little bit though - 10 mg or so. But I'd wait till you get your bloodwork done. DHEA-S is part of the workup for adrenals.
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:01 PM   #160
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Hey Dawn,

If you do the HHCG, I'm going to start a homeopathic HCG thread in the Other Plans. I just want to see who's losing what & what different challenges they had (like immunity etc). It's hard to weed through those that use rx & those don't. I'm kind of surprised no one started one, since there are quite a few, and actually some who do the rx don't take the homeopathic seriously.

Btw, 6 lbs. down. I had a rough nite last night though. Feeling better today. Had to take a little hydrocortisone, but I think it's actually the potassium factor. My glucose was 85 last nite when I felt icky, so not low enough to cause my symptoms.
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:22 PM   #161
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Great snow!! I saw that someone on the hcg thread was doing the homeopathic but not too many others were. I saw the one you tube video and was quite impressed with what I saw. It was just a glimpse, but very interesting! I have concerns though, again it is with the oil and no using of it. In the summertime my sunscreen is my coconut oil, yes the straight oil. I then slather on the coconut oil lotion on top of it. It is all I use on my face and it has kept it ever so clear and beautiful. I would hate to do away with it, even for a short time. Maybe the fall would be a better time to start for me. Or I was thinking at least when I run out of my current batch of supplements. Wow, 6 pounds already...how many days so far have you done it? That sounds super awesome!
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #162
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snow,
I just emailed you but don't know if I hit send or not. It went away so I think it was the send button--just hope it wasn't the delete button!! See how ditzy I am? I am not even blond, must be the adrenal fatigue in me. Let me know if you get it!
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #163
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Yup, I got it! I'll email you back in a little bit!
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:23 PM   #164
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snow,
See how ditzy I am? I am not even blond, must be the adrenal fatigue in me.
Lol, no, you couldn't compete with me on the ditzy blonde category. Trust me, I know how the adrenal thing plays into it! I just feel so out of it all the time. Sometimes I'll say something to someone, and can't even remember what I said. Too bad we can't put a direct glucose IV line to our brains.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:35 AM   #165
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It may or it may not. You can have high DHEA & poor adrenal function. I use to have high DHEA-S, and then it dropped when my cortisol dropped.

You could try it out. Just a little bit though - 10 mg or so. But I'd wait till you get your bloodwork done. DHEA-S is part of the workup for adrenals.
Well I think a lot of my lethargy might be caused by adrenal exhaustion. And the adrenal exhaustion is caused by the 24/7 injection of adrenaline that I am getting from ingesting sugar. So I think I'm gonna try it .
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:56 PM   #166
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Hm they seem to be 100mg capsules of DHEA though.. please advise?
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:02 PM   #167
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Jackvance:

I think it's hard to get low dose DHEA. I took a 50mg tablet & broke it up into 5 pieces (I know, not very easy to do).

The reason you should take a low dose is that for some people DHEA converts to estrogen, and for others converts to testosterone. You just don't know which person you'll end up being, kwim? The ones who convert to testosterone end up sometimes shedding their hair. And it often doesn't stop once you stop the DHEA. I lost alot of hair on crown (I have alot already so you can't notice it) from naturally high levels of DHEA.

One possible solution for the testosterone conversion/hair loss is to take Saw Palmetto or Spearmint tea, which both can bind DHT levels (which is the part responsible when it comes to testosterone induced hair loss). But it doesn't always work. Lowering insulin resistance will help too, as that effects that whole cascade too.

The caveat is that spearmint tea can lower blood sugar. Soooo....the saw palmetto might be the better option. It's never easy, huh??

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Old 05-23-2009, 02:18 PM   #168
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Oh, I reread and saw you have capsules. Sorry! Break open the capsule & just drop a little in a glass of water or something. Or even right on your tongue.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:32 AM   #169
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Oh, I reread and saw you have capsules. Sorry! Break open the capsule & just drop a little in a glass of water or something. Or even right on your tongue.
I just took one capsule today. But then I was thinking.. do I *really* want to have more adrenaline??

Let me tell you how yesterday went. I went back to my parents, so the evening was spent sitting on the couch watching tv (important soccer match for my hometown team - and we won) and fidgeting on the PC. But I stayed up really late, which was a mistake since that means there is a long period of time I didn't eat anything. Just the occasional sip of cola. By the time I wanted to go to sleep, I'd probably been overrun by adrenaline. It's hard to fall asleep, because every time I seem to dose off I get a panic attack and shoot up straight. The next morning (today) I had this feeling over me that I just went through something traumatic.

So do I really want my body to produce even more adrenaline?....
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:52 AM   #170
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Jackvance,

DHEA won't give you more adrenaline. It's a steroidal precursor. It may keep you up at night though if you take too much, or take late in day (just like rx cortisone would). It's one of the hormones that often drop when your adrenals crash.

That cola however, especially after not eating for a long period, should be cut out if it's caffeined/sugary. The diet/caffeine/sugar has to be addressed first. Clean that up, and you may feel 100% better.

That adrenaline rush you described as you are falling to sleep is probably actually your blood sugar dropping. Those are the same symptoms I get. Like someone jolted me awake & I feel a rush. Perhaps a little adrenaline is involved, because that is your bodies way of getting your attention in a dangerous situation. Getting to sleep before 11pm really helps your adrenals if you can do that. And again, eating small meals during the day, and a bedtime snack of protein/fat/complex carb - or whatever combo works for you. And also making sure you are eating a healthy breakfast in the morning.

And no, I definately wouldn't take 100mg dhea again.

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I just took one capsule today. But then I was thinking.. do I *really* want to have more adrenaline??

Let me tell you how yesterday went. I went back to my parents, so the evening was spent sitting on the couch watching tv (important soccer match for my hometown team - and we won) and fidgeting on the PC. But I stayed up really late, which was a mistake since that means there is a long period of time I didn't eat anything. Just the occasional sip of cola. By the time I wanted to go to sleep, I'd probably been overrun by adrenaline. It's hard to fall asleep, because every time I seem to dose off I get a panic attack and shoot up straight. The next morning (today) I had this feeling over me that I just went through something traumatic.

So do I really want my body to produce even more adrenaline?....
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:16 AM   #171
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J
That cola however, especially after not eating for a long period, should be cut out if it's caffeined/sugary. The diet/caffeine/sugar has to be addressed first. Clean that up, and you may feel 100% better.
Yes I know.. but my exams start in 8 days. I can't start the diet now because i don't have enough time to get stabilized. If I cut out sugar and softdrinks, I become incredibly sleepy during the day.
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And no, I definately wouldn't take 100mg dhea again.
I'm not gonna take DHEA again, atleast not until I can get my hypoglycemic fits under control, either with a diet or fixing the underlying problem :/
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That adrenaline rush you described as you are falling to sleep is probably actually your blood sugar dropping. Those are the same symptoms I get. Like someone jolted me awake & I feel a rush. Perhaps a little adrenaline is involved, because that is your bodies way of getting your attention in a dangerous situation.
Yes I think you are right. A sudden blood sugar dip would explain it perfectly.

It seems I simply produce too much insulin and this is causing most of my problems. You appear to have the same symptoms as me.. we might have the same thing. Is it a slow working thyroid with you? And does it help to take meds for that or do you still need to diet?

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Old 05-24-2009, 09:27 AM   #172
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You could have hyperinsulinemia (sp?). Your body produces too much insulin. I don't know the various causes besides insulin resistance. But I think there are some. You could have your insulin levels checked too. I had mine checked, and they're fine. I'm still getting to the bottom of my problem. I have a pituitary tumor diagnosis (which sends the messages to your endocrine glands), but my endoc thinks it's my adrenals. But there have definately been times when my body probably overshot insulin. It's usually when I've abruptly changed diets, and my body is expecting more food. Unfortunately, it's really hard to know what is going on in there unless you're hooked up to a monitor 24/7!
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:33 AM   #173
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If you can't cut out the sugar/caffeine right now (which actually you may think you're getting a kick from them, but it's temporary & they just send your blood sugar right back down even more), could you carry around snacks with you? Buy some fiber crackers (Waser makes some high fiber ones), throw some natural peanut butter, or some cheese. Make a sandwhich out of them & put them in a baggy, and snack on them throughout the day. Or some whole wheat bread with a protein on it. Bring some fruit with you too. You can't live on caffeine & sugar alone. That's a direct line to an adrenal crash.
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:45 AM   #174
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Yeah I bought a lot of bread, gonna eat that with coconut oil, cheese or ham throughout the day. Don't think I have a tumor though, I've had this for so many years. Tomorrow morning I have a doctor's appointment. I'm gonna bring my glucometer along for proof of my sudden crashes in sugar levels. (I've run some tests and it stores the results) I hope she can accomodate me and help me look for the reasons..
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:02 AM   #175
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Ok i went to see the doctor. So I told him about my little experiment with drinking sugar water and how my glucose levels would rapidly crash after spiking. He immediately started saying this was perfectly normal, that the body overshoots insuline when I put such physical stress on it (ingesting sugar). I told him that constantly being pumped full of adrenaline was very uncomforting.. and he basically told me to go on a low-carb diet.. well atleast he knows that much .

I probed him about getting my thyroid and adrenals tested, but he said the only possible reason to excrete excessive insulin was a tumor, and I'd already been dead if that was the case (this is true). If I had a slow thyroid I'd be fat and slow, the opposite of the way I was now. And that the adrenal test was pointless as it had nothing to do with this. I still wanna get these tested, but I'm out of ideas how to get it done now.. I don't know of any such publicly available test like in the US

Anyway, before I went to the doctor I had had a gruesome night again. Even though I had done regular eating up to going to bed, i couldn't fall asleep and after a while I started getting those 'shoot up straight' reactions when dozing off. Remembering this thread I figured my blood sugar was crashing, so I got up and tested my glucose levels twice, with surprising results:
3:19 131mg/dL
3:33 93mg/dL

So even though I was doing nothing but lying in bed (no ingesting sugars or anything), my sugar level dropped by almost 40 in less than 15 minutes! (I don't get how it could be 130 though, this is the highest I have ever measured)

I told the doctor this, that I wasn't putting the fysical strain of sugar on my body here, yet it crashed so fast. And that a drop of 30mg/dL over a 30min period should atleast account for relative or reactive hypoglycemia? He agreed that it was indeed not "that" normal, but provided no further comments.

I guess if they don't know how to help you, that they will always call it normal..
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:39 AM   #176
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I probed him about getting my thyroid and adrenals tested, but he said the only possible reason to excrete excessive insulin was a tumor, and I'd already been dead if that was the case (this is true). If I had a slow thyroid I'd be fat and slow, the opposite of the way I was now. And that the adrenal test was pointless as it had nothing to do with this. I still wanna get these tested, but I'm out of ideas how to get it done now.. I don't know of any such publicly available test like in the US
That is not true about excess insulin! Read this: Hyperinsulinemia: Is it diabetes? - MayoClinic.com. And the fact that you are thin (and energetic??) is an important clue. Because you are on a low carb board, I just assumed you were overweight. You could have hyperthyroidism. You could have hyperinsulinemia. You could have alot of things. But I'm half awake and need to put my thinking cap on. The adrenaline test is not pointless. Otherwise my endocronologist would have never made me jump thru all the hoops to take it by having to cut out a long list of foods for a week including caffeine. But remember, there are various hormones put out by the adrenals. The most common one being cortisol.

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Anyway, before I went to the doctor I had had a gruesome night again. Even though I had done regular eating up to going to bed, i couldn't fall asleep and after a while I started getting those 'shoot up straight' reactions when dozing off. Remembering this thread I figured my blood sugar was crashing, so I got up and tested my glucose levels twice, with surprising results:
3:19 131mg/dL
3:33 93mg/dL
Ok, it's important to know details since you live in belgium, lol. What time did you go to bed, and what did you last eat & at what time?? If this was more than 2 hrs after eating (the 131mg/dl reading) & you had eaten normally (not high amts of sugar), then it could just be a result of a liver dump (your blood sugar went low, and you liver dumped a highish amt of sugars into your system), and then the 93 is just your insulin kicking in & doing the right thing, although that rapid of a drop can make you feel bad. It's helpful to take your glucose levels before going to bed to see if they are lower than that middle of the night high.

All I can say is that you'll have to move onto another doctor. It happens to all of us. We have to bounce around until we find someone who knows what they're talking about & will listen. And/or you could finding a saliva lab online, and order saliva tests. You do your test at home, and you send it back to the lab. The only problem I can see is that if Belgium has also banned saliva tests. This will only give you a small picture. If you had a benign adrenal tumor for instance, it can put out any hormone that the adrenal makes. Including adrenaline. And the adrenals aren't the whole picture either.

And again, like I said, just cutting out the caffeine & sugar could be the whole problem. I know you say you're tired when you cut them out. But that is normal until your body adjusts. Weaning down slowly will help. The first time I cut out caffeine for 3 years, I was in a fog when I came off it. The 2nd time I cut out caffeine, it actually made me more alert. So it can go both ways.

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Old 05-25-2009, 07:56 AM   #177
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the fact that you are thin (and energetic??) is an important clue. Because you are on a low carb board, I just assumed you were overweight.
Heh, I wouldn't say I'm slim.. more slim than overweight though (BMI of ~21). I came to this board by googling for forums that dealt with hypoglycemia. And I'm the opposite of energetic. Lethargic would more accurately describe me.

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If this was more than 2 hrs after eating (the 131mg/dl reading) & you had eaten normally (not high amts of sugar), then it could just be a result of a liver dump (your blood sugar went low, and you liver dumped a highish amt of sugars into your system), and then the 93 is just your insulin kicking in & doing the right thing, although that rapid of a drop can make you feel bad.
Yes I figured it was a liver dump, had to be. While all those things may be normal, is it really normal to be awake for 4 hours, even though I've taken a sleeping pill, in a state of mild panic attacks whenever I doze off?..

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And again, like I said, just cutting out the caffeine & sugar could be the whole problem.
Well in high school I didn't smoke, had little caffeine and sugar and ate healthy and still had most of these symptoms. That's why I'm not very optimistic.

I've been looking around for symptoms that most closely resemble what I am experiencing. Only in your thread and your description did I find that. I've now been looking for some Addison's/adrenal insufficiency and it also feels spot on.

It's like I'm always tense. Sometimes I go slightly dizzy/pale. Physical exercise is not my thing. It's like everything is hard - doing even trivial things feels like an enormous burden. I show all the symptoms of being overstressed, even when doing absolutely nothing for days. I just want this to go away, to be calm, relaxed, capable of dealing with the normal things of life, you know..

Anyway, sorry for the rant :blush: I'm very irritated by that doctor calling everything "normal" while I feel it is everything but, and their inability to take my complaints seriously.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:24 AM   #178
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Jackvance,

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly - obviously you stated your fatigue symptoms in the past.

I guess you could consider the liver dump a normal response, that is if it's not too much glucose dumped. Which I assume can just set off a reactive type hypoglycemia, and the cycle just goes back & forth. But the initial hypoglycemia that triggered the large liver dump is not normal. So you definately have to get to the bottom of that!
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Old 05-26-2009, 05:38 AM   #179
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jack, i was wondering what you eat on a typical day? can you give us an example of meals from an average day? i think there are probably other things going on besides too much sugar in the diet, but figuring out how much you're ingesting right now might be a clue as to ideas we can give you to help.

you DO need thyroid levels checked too. just because you're not "fat" doesn't mean you don't have a thyroid issue. I have low T3 and I'm not fat, it makes me feel like I have zero energy to do anything though. I think the cortisol I'm taking right now is fixing about 75% of the problem and that taking some more T3 hormone will hopefully fix the rest for me if I can get my dose upped.
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Old 05-26-2009, 06:01 AM   #180
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My typical meals? Ok let me first tell you the things I totally avoid because I have a high intolerance to them (had this tested with a blood sample) : caffeine, peanuts, eggs, black pepper and yeast. (I know I said a bit back I drank cola, but I've actually switched to another soft drink without caffeine for months now, but you prolly don't know the name in the US :P)

So on a typical day I might eat:
- about 2-3 times a week soup with lots of vegetables in them (made by my mother)
- about 4 times a week a hot meal consisting of potatoes, meat and vegetables
- pasta/spaghetti, quite often because I love this
- bread (special bread not made with baker's yeast) with cheese or ham
- fries (another favorite of mine) with meat (and lotsa salt)
- random things like a pizza, or pancakes (made by my mother without eggs), or rice with veggies/meat
- potato chips (rare these days)

That's my general routine

(edit: oh.. and I have to add, and I know this is odd, but I actually seem to have an aversion to eating. Unless I consciously make my myself eat, I'd rather just skip meals or eating alltogether, even though I might be hungry as hell. If I were to just follow what my body seems to want, I'd eat maybe once in the middle of the day and that's it. Ofcourse I know that is bad, so I avoid that - eating regularly (every 2-3 hours) makes me feel a lot better. So I don't really know why I have this tendency.. but the doctor said something about forcing out my symptoms will give me endorphine shots, making it addictive)

Last edited by jackvance; 05-26-2009 at 06:24 AM..
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