Need to help a friend...

[Purple Sage]

This morning my best friend of 20 years called me and told me that she and her husband are having fights almost every day. When I asked her what they were fighting about it came spilling out that since their daughter was born, 3 years and 1 month ago they have only had sex 5 times. She said they fight all the time because he wants it and she doesn't. She thinks it is gross.

The more we talked about it the more it came out that she was raised by God fearing parents who probably meant the best but did not handle the conversations about sex well. She was told repeatedly that boys use girls that it is all about the boy and they will use a girl for sex and that is nasty and horrid. We talked and talked and I tried to get her to see that God intended sex to be a beautiful thing between married people but that our parents told us things like that to keep us from doing it before we were married but she cannot seem to reconcile in her mind that it is not dirty, nasty and horrid when it is with her husband. She thinks that he is just loving her for what he can "do" to her when she gives in and has sex with him and it makes her feel guilty if it feels good because then she feels like one of those nasty girls in high school that were getting pregnant, something her parents told her just showed to everyone how nasty they were.

I need some words of wisdom here. She says she has never talked to anyone else about this. A counselor is totally out of the question because she would not talk to a stranger about something so personal. I did ask for her permission to post this here and get some input though. Does anyone have any idea how to help her get this worked out? She has been married for 10 years! Her poor husband is really struggling right now. They are very strong christians and married till death do us part so he is not going to go looking elsewhere or leave her but she knows that he is upset and frustrated. The thing is, she thinks that he should be able to get over that and they can just have a platonic loving relationship, whatever that is.

She is not by nature a selfish person and would do anything for anyone but this thing she cannot get past in her mind that it is nasty, dirty and her husband is using her when they do it. I have tried to tell her that it is not that way at all, that it is one way men know of to express their love for us and it makes them feel loved when we are interested in it too but she says she is just totally grossed out by the whole thing, the smell, the "male parts" etc. I am just lost here....I was told similar things by my parents but it was always made clear that when it took place outside of marriage it was bad but inside of marriage it was blessed and beautiful and God gives it to us as a privalege of marriage.

I appreciate any help you can give me, any books that are faith based that could be helpful and any prayers that you could send my way since it seems like I am the one she has chosen to help her with this....like I know so much!

[LCinHouston]

I'm so sorry for your friend and what her parents did to her psyche. I was raised in a very similar situation. May I suggest finding a Shepherd's Guide for your area and contacting a christian-based therapist? They will be able to take a godly, biblical approach to helping restore the beauty of intimacy in their marriage.

she's fortunate to have a friend she feels comfortable going to!

[jedswife]

there is bound to be many books on the subject

and what about talking to a pastor??? maybe?? or maybe ask your pastor for words that would help her...i am sure he could probably even give you some stuff from the bible to ease her mind.

[CarolynF]

Hi,

Well, personally, I think this is really a very deep and serious issue with your friend..She definitely feels guilty..and she might have had some sexual experiences as a teen that she hasn't mentioned to you..

Well, she is not being an obedient wife at all according to the Scripture..and unfortunately, this may end in a divorce..So it is a very serious problem.

I would frankly tell her that she needs to seek professional help from a woman
Christian counselor FOR HERSELF..by herself..to deal with HER personal sexual
issues. She really needs to talk to someone..I agree that books are very helpful, but she has issues that need to be dealt with openly. Whether it is a result from her parents' distorted views..or possibly guilt about her own personal sexual history..It is destroying her marriage..

[Purple Sage]

See that is the thing...I appreciate all the input but I suggested a counselor today and she said it took her 10 years to be able to talk to me about this, how could she go talk to a counselor and besides that, she thinks that he ought to just be able to get over his need for that becuase she doesn't like it! I think part of it is just that she is being selfish in this one part of her life...the person who is never selfish. I don't get it. I am going to do a bible study on marital relationships though and go cruise a book store looking for a book.

I am quite certain that there were not "other sexual encounters"....the only way she had sex before marriage was if she and her DH did it then. She has been only with him steadily since freshman year of HS when I dated him and then broke up with him right before a dance and she felt sorry for him so she invited him to go...they have been inseparable ever since.

She is a total "prude" where that is concerned too. Her brother got his girlfriend pregnant in high school and her parent's attitude toward that mess has probably had a lot to do with her confusion on the issue. I just feel totally over my head here. I just didn't have a clue when her DH was trying to talk to me in December about what he could do to help my friend be happier so she would enjoy being together with him that this is what he was alluding to....I just thought he meant that she was so upset about the fact that they were going to get a new house and the deal fell through so they were staying at their yucky old farmhouse for a couple more years...I actually told him I thought it would help her feel better about things if he helped her repaint and stuff!

[HAB]

I think looking for a faith based book on the subject is a good plan since she is too embarassed/shy to seek out counseling. Possibly another book to that assures her that sex is not dirty and it's not nasty if sex feels good. It sounds like her fears are very deep seated since these are thoughts her parents instilled in her and she hasn't been able to overcome them on her own up to this point.

Maybe pointing out to her too that since her husband has been with her for 10 years he obviously loves her outside/apart from their physical relationship. If he was only looking for sex he would have gone outside the relationship or left her long before now, no?

Possibly taking it upon yourself to advise the husband as well if that would be comfortable for both of you. Perhaps a book on starting out slowly with the way he shows her his affections (hand-holding, snuggling, massaging, etc.) until she reaches a point where she is comfortable with being touched in a sexual manner and enjoying it. It may be overwhelming for her to be approached with the outright request for sex, moving slower could help her adapt.

Also, is there any way she could speak to her mother about these things? Does the mother feel that sex is "dirty" in any sense or just when it is performed outside of marriage? Perhaps the mothers assurance that God intended for sex to be enjoyable within a marriage would help her also?

If she is fully committed to her relationship she should be willing to do what it takes to make things work for both of them and so should he.

Hope that I didn't overstep my bounds and that helps to some degree!

[Jennyl]

If she refuses to talk about it with a professional or even consider doing something to try and fix the situation then I don't see a happy ending. Either they stay together and are miserable, or they separate because of this. The husband might be a loving, true, christian partner, but that doesn't mean he planned on being celibate for life and having a platonic relationship with his wife. I think it's very selfish of her to expect that of him. I'm not saying she should have sex when she doesn't want to....I am saying that she needs to figure out a way to seek counselling for this problem. If I was in a troubled relationship with someone and my partner didn't even have enough respect for me to discuss, or attempt to rectify, the problem at hand....I don't think there would be much hope for a future together.

[jedswife]

Originally Posted by Purple Sage

See that is the thing...I appreciate all the input but I suggested a counselor today and she said it took her 10 years to be able to talk to me about this, how could she go talk to a counselor and besides that, she thinks that he ought to just be able to get over his need for that becuase she doesn't like it! I think part of it is just that she is being selfish in this one part of her life...the person who is never selfish. I don't get it. I am going to do a bible study on marital relationships though and go cruise a book store looking for a book.
!

tell her she can either get help and try to fix this or be divorced - this sounds like this has been going on for years and her poor husband must feel horrible - tell her to think about how he feels - unwanted, undesired, unloved etc etc etc. you gotta let her know this is a major deal in regards to marriage - and she should want to make her husband happy and she should also want it for herself as part of loving marriage.

this sure seems to be more than just a rigid upbringing - its possible she was molested and unable to say so - or could be depression...maybe.

does she think that the sex she obviously had to make her child was nasty and disgusting and if not then how could it be now? can you imagine what the hubby must be thinking - i wonder if he thinks all of their sexual encounters were just put up with to get it over with - that must really hurt him.

if she just ignores it and does not try to fix it - i could not blame the hubby for divorcing her as it will appear to him that the relationship is just not worth the effort.

i hope she figures out before her marriage falls apart.

[LauraFL]

Christa, tell her to open her bible and read the book "Song of Solomon". It's very racey and will let her see what God thinks about sex between a husband and a wife.

[Purple Sage]

Lowcarbcontender:
I have actually just been reading that today and preparing to call her and tell her to read that.

As for all the people saying they are going to get a divorce, I can tell you that is not going to happen. It is just that her husband is absolutely a man of honor and he made a committment to her and he will not walk away. I know you may think I am being naive or whatever but we have had many of these discussions and he won't walk away...he is not as happy as he woudl like to be though.

I appreciate all the input though. She knows this is a problem and knowing this person like I do, it was a HUGE thing for her to talk to me about it. The fact that she is willing to talk to me about it signals that she realizes she has to chnage. TElling her that she has to get over it or she will be divorced is really not going to be constructive in this situation. These are people I have known since childhood and trust me when I say I know that would just destroy everything that she is trying to change at this point. I will do my best to help her through this but stating things like they are getting a divorce is not really what I was asking for when I said I needed help. And saying over and over that she has to go to a counselor is not helpful either because I know she will not. I have already suggested it and it is not something that will be benificial to continue to hammer on that. Thanks again for your input.

[Purple Sage]

Just an update....talked to my friend this morning and she has been thinking about what I said and reading in Songs of Soloman. Another change she has made is that I recommended she stop taking her birth control as they are not having sex anyway and see if that could be having sexual side effects. That was 4 days ago and she says that she can tell that it was having that side effect *details not necessary* but I think she is making progress.

[jedswife]

thats good i really hope it works out for her

[divinec]

Christa,
Was she on any other medication? Once I was put on prozac for depression and it completely and totally made me not want sex. And when my then boyfriend/now husband and I did, it was not .... pleasurable. That was the last time that prescription was filled. Sorry if TMI, but some medications really, really mess with your sexuality.

About the BC, do they want to get pregnant again? Because if she's not using anything and the mood suddenly strikes her.....

There are non-hormonal bc methods she could try if she does want to keep from getting pregnant. Obviously you know this, I'm just trying to be helpful- an unwanted pregnancy can be disastrous to an already unsteady marriage.

[relentless]

It sounds like in addition to the things listed by all the other folks here, she may need to work on pleasing herself sexually so that she can enjoy being with her husband. I dont' know if that's something you could talk with her about, but it's clealry important to know what makes your own body feel good in order to enjoy being with someone else.

It is difficult to move through repressive conditioning regarding sex/sexuality, but definitely possible. She needs to commit to herself and her husband to do WHATEVER SHE CAN to improve this issue.

I understand your thoughts that she won't see a therapist, but there does come a time that tough love is the only realistic approach. People have to be ready to do what needs to be done to change.

[BlueBrooke]

Hi, Christa --

About the only thing I can add to what's already been suggested is this:

I understand how difficult it is for your friend to discuss a matter like this with a total stranger (i.e., therapist or counselor), but perhaps you could reminder her that it's a bit easier to talk to *you* now that she's taken that first step.

Just like a little one confessing to stealing the bubble gum, it's only really hard to get the first words out -- then the flood comes. If she can just bring herself to tell a counselor "sex is dirty," her life would change so dramatically for the better, and she and her husband would be so much happier.

I just cannot imagine this poor couple living out the rest of their lives like this -- both of them equally miserable.

While I understand her reluctance to seek professional help, I'd be very surprised if books or friendly support are going to really fix this problem. Once you get an idea like that deep into your head, it's so hard to get it out -- I think it calls for a professional.

If ten years of being married to this wonderful man hasn't taught her that what she was told was bunk, how can a book do it?

I am hoping for the best, but I am not optimistic while she feels this way about professional help.

Good luck!