Pray for me

[gavinsmom]

Hey everyone......... I had such a horrible night last night. I dont know if I should even go into it...

Dh and I have recently reconnected with some old friends of ours. They have kids almost the same age as ours. They have a son who is 7, like my son Gavin and a daughter who is 5... my daughter Gabby is 3.
Well I watch her kids and she watches mine..... we let them come over and play and sometimes spend the night.

My house is a 2 story house... when the kids are over they usually play upstairs. I go up every now and then to check on them, and when they argue and things and tattle tale like most kids that age do. But for the most part they play up in their rooms while they are here.... and I am downstairs cleaning ect...

Well last night something happend ( that I dont want to go into) that I found out that our friends kids have been teaching my children to "Play doctor"
As I spoke with my children there are times that their daughter sits on her brother with her panties off .......... and she tries to kiss him. I have had to get onto the girls a couple of times for running around with no clothes on..
But their was alot of things that my son told me that their son says when they are here. I had a long talk with my son..... and daughter. I called my hubby at work and told him......... I was so upset........ in tears. I was nearly molested by my father..... he never actually had intercourse or anything like that but their was inappropriate behavior that has scarred me for life.......
Anyway I decided to call HEather ...... their mom to tell her what was said. I told her what my son said happens when they come over...... and she was kinda like well nothing like that ever happens over here........ I said I know my son says they never do that at your house. I said it is probably because my house is 2 story; and they have alot more seclusion up there.
I was like I love your children, and I just wanted to let you know that I mean kids see things on tv and such.... I just wanted to let you know so that you could talk with your kids.

I called her back later and told her I just wanted to make sure she wasnt mad at me..... that I was upset and just wanted to let her know the situation. She was like my kids are sitting at the table and they are gonna get their butts busted when my hubby gets home. She said I am getting conflicted stories like your son is the one who does that.... and that your daughter is the one who suggests that they take off all their clothes..... ok my 3 year old? I knew that they would say that because I have to get onto them all the time here about lying. But it isnt from my kids..... nothing like this has ever happend until now........ till her kids have been coming over. She was like this isnt the first time this has happend..... that her daughter has been caught playing doctor with another little girl. She was like mad at me saying well my kids arent going over to anyones house and no one is coming over here till I get to the bottom of this.... it is like she was mad at me........ which I dont understand...... since my kids are the innocent by- standards in this and she said that she has had this happen before with other kids........
Anyway.......... I have been so distraut...... and just sick to my stomach all night. I obviously dont want them coming over here anymore. But then again she said how embarassing this was that she is sick of this and her kids know better.... I mean I am not embarrassed I am upset........ I mean you never know what is happening with those kids..... or what they see....... I am not in their house.....
I am just so upset.... that my kids have been exposed to this....... my babies......
Just pray for me........

[GypsyVisions]

Oh honey, no wonder your upset, any mother would be

There's no telling what those kids have seen on t.v. etc., and I'm not exactly sure what I would do in your situation. But I will keep you in my prayers.

[debkeversole]

for you and your babies... don't worry about her blaming you you have done the right things for your little ones.. i myself would not let them come over again it's awful and wrong babies that age would be exposed to things like that, but you can keep your kids away from them

[Lori]

I don't know you or your background except for what you said about sexual abuse in your post. What I do know is that playing doctor and having curiosity about their bodies are common, normal things for 5 and 6 year-olds to be interested in. I'm not saying that you are, but if you do overreact you risk making them needlessly confused and afraid. On the other hand you have to make sure your kids are safe.

Here is a good site on Playing Doctor and Growing Up Healthy:

It’s common for children up to about age 6 to "play doctor." They may be interested in each other’s anatomy and display socially unacceptable behavior like stripping off their clothes in public or engaging in I'll-show-you-mine-if-you-show-me-yours activities.

Of course, it isn’t OK for kids to be sexually aggressive with their playmates. But instead of cutting off contact with the other child, which your daughter might misperceive as punishment for having told you what he did, you may want to first take a milder approach, advises Dr. Andrea Van Deven, director of the Child Protection Team at Children’s Hospital Boston.

For starters, make sure all play dates are highly supervised. Naturally, talk with your daughter so she understands the touching wasn’t appropriate and that if this friend or anyone else touches her in a way that she doesn’t approve of she has a right to tell the person to stop and she should also inform you. If you think your daughter may need more help, however, speak with your pediatrician, who can either offer counsel or refer you to someone who can.
<snip>

Source: Lots more information - good reading

[BFL Chick]

Actually as far as I know, "playing doctor" is considered a normal part of sexual development and is not abnormal at all unless there is more than 4yrs age difference between the kids....
There is a huge difference between a grown adult molesting you (sounds like he really crossed your boundaries without your permission & to me that's molestation regardless of whether sexual intercourse happened or not). These kids were probably just trying out different things & playing....Try not to overreact because then your kids might develop a very negative attitude towards their body and sexuality....

[gavinsmom]

Well my hubby was upset as well.
My hubby and son went fishing with some other men in our family this morning... I just asked him to have a loving talk with my son. My son already feels like he is the bad guy. I wanted to talk to him in depth to make sure no touching or anything like that had went on...... I hope I havent made such a deal about it that .......... I dont know this is just hard......... honestly I am mad that my family is having to deal with this........ my kids are too young to be having to deal with something like this....

I just dont want this to be something that my son has memories forever about ........ something that changes him........ his innocence.......

I am so mad......... and hurt..... I feel that my family has been violated......
I mean I know how much of an impact sexual things have on kids....... it just worries me....... all I can do is pray that god interviene in this situation.....



I just wanted to say that there are things that my kids told me that were said that are definitely not normal Kids playing doctor.......

My son told me that their son says things like suck my penis, and to kiss his boobies......... so their is definite reason for my being upset.

[gavinsmom]

And I was trying to find out information without making it such a big deal, but definitely letting my kids know what is acceptable and what is not... telling my son that he was not in trouble, that he can always tell me anything.... but based on what he said was happening I had to ask certain questions.......... trust me the last thing I want for my child is for this to be a issue in his life.

[BFL Chick]

You should definitely call your pediatrician and see what he/she thinks....

If he had said something like give me a BJ, then I would be much more concerned.....But it all sounds like play to me....Seriously, it might all be normal development.....

[gavinsmom]

I am sorry but a 7 year old telling his 5 yr old sister to sit on him naked, and kiss his boobies and suck his you know what is not normal behavior.....

My job is to protect my children....... and that is what I plan to do......

[Lori]

I think your pediatrician can give you advice on how to approach this with your kids. You don't want it to seem like an interrogation that will make them feel guilty. They are all little children.

I'd be concerned about the other child like where he got those ideas at such a young age.

Edited to say: BFL and I are posting at the same time and saying the exact same thing. Talk to your children's doctor - someone who has experience in issues like this. That is the best way to protect your children, not just physically but psychologically. The doctor can sort out what is normal and what if anything is not.

[gavinsmom]

You are right......... I will talk to my doctor..... he does know how to approach these things much better than me....

but I was careful to not make my conversation an interrogation....... I dropped it pretty quickly and moved on ....... and we went and made cookies.......

[gavinsmom]

And I am ......... very concerned about where their kids got those ideas ......

[stews]

Originally Posted by BFL Chick

You should definitely call your pediatrician and see what he/she thinks....

If he had said something like give me a BJ, then I would be much more concerned.....But it all sounds like play to me....Seriously, it might all be normal development.....

I disagree. a kid telling another one to suck his penis does not sound normal to me at all.


gavinsmom: your kids will be fine. you are a loving concerned parent that wants the best for them. see what dh says after talking to your son. you can always talk to their pediatrician (as suggested) to see what they recommend or if they recommend a pediatric counselor etc. it may very well not be needed with the communication you seem to have with your kids.

it's going to be ok.

[Lori]

Would you get back to us after you talk to the pediatrician?

And making cookies sounds like the perfect thing to do.

[gavinsmom]

I am going to wait and see how the talk with Dh goes. I think that things are going to be fine.... I just am upset because my kids have been exposed to this.
I mean we all as parents want to keep our children safe.

But thanks after posting this I do feel better....... I know that what happend to me as a child is making into an even more upsetting situation. I know that a adult molesting a child is a totally different than what is going on here....

I just want to protect my children.

[Lori]

Originally Posted by gavinsmom

I just want to protect my children.

[mirroravoider]

It's obvious to me that your friend's kids have been exposed to tv and movies they should have been protected from. There is no other reason why children at that age would be interested in or comprehend that kind of [oral] sexual behavior. This goes beyond the normal curiosity that we would expect and understand. Although I certainly understand that it's disturbing to you, I doubt very much that this will carry any life-long scarring like an adult molestation would. My kids had similar encounters with neighborhood children that I didn't learn about till they were in high-school. They're both fine and in healthy relationships (26 & 22 yr. olds). Even with our best efforts, we can't monitor every minute of their lives. Don't beat yourself up over it -- kids are more resiliant than we give them credit for!

[pooticus]

yeah i'm sorry but that's NOT a normal part of sexual development.

facts r ur kids have been exposed to this. facts r it will be scarring to some degree. i played doctor with the neighbor boy when we were about 5. in the closet. u show me ur i show u mine...we got caught. i got sent home. we got in trouble i remember it to this very day and the shame involved with it. embarrasing! that's gonna be the case here.

but...man i would never allow those children in my house again. don't want em around them. even with supervised play that child (the little boy) will talk. they've obviously been exposed to shows with inappropriate conduct, or porn, or even sexual molestation. because this is "acting out" behavior not normal everyday playing doctor behavior.

i would not introduce that dynamic into my family. ur the mom. it's now ur job to choose to protect and shelter them. tell them why ur not going to let them over. tell them it's ur job to set boundaries and to protect them and that "little johnny" is just too mature for them to play with.

[Mindy5936]

I am a family therapsit who does extensive work with traumatized children. I agree that talking to your pediatrician is a good idea. I don't want to give any clinical advise but want to let you know that there are times when children recreate what they have seen without malice, in other words they don't recognize their behavior is inappropriate due to age , relationship with the other person etc.. this is developmental. An example would be a child wanting to use their tongue to kiss because they saw their parents do so. While not acceptable the children particpating may not realize that, there are ways to intervene that help create a learning experience for the children so the can better discern what is ok in the future. Please note these situations are enitrely different than molestation or other sexual abuse and I am not in a position to judge if this applies to our situation but wanted to throw it out there

[Lori]

Mindy,

You said that very well. I am a developmental psychologist but I too would never try to give personal advice without knowing the family - except to refer them to someone who does know, namely their pediatrician.

[southerngrace]

Pooticus - You can not blame this all on the children because they are just as innocent as Ashley's (gavinsmoms) I feel as though she needs to talk to someone that can give her some advice on what she can or needs to do about the other couples children. Ashley is a loving mother and her children I feel will heal from this fine, I do not think she has over reacted and kept the topic in moderate and no substantal elaborance on the subject. I am more concerned about the other children which are just as innocent possibly have being molested and NO ONE stepping in to validate it. I love ya Ash and you turn all this over to God and he will lift the burden and give you the sense to know what to do next! You know you are in my prayers

[lori121]

I'm so sorry that your going through this. Wish there was a way to help you through this

[gavinsmom]

Thanks........ actually just getting what has happend out in the open has made me feel much better. I feel that I handled it the best way that I knew how, and will continue to look after the well being of my children no matter what. And I hope that I conveyed things in a way that my son will feel like he can tell me anything that may happen in the future no matter what it is... I think that I have.

[gettingstrength]

[lalabella]

that is so scary and seems so odd... I can only imagine what you must be feeling...

I think I'd feel the worst about the other mom saying "they got these ideas from your kid not mine" etc. and how that kind of thing would hurt and freak me out... Hearing someone else's denial or turning it back on you when you are trying to help her know what is going on with her kids... yikes...

You are a great mom, and it sounds like you really handled it well (asking questions without freaking them out too much) ... let them know they are ok and that you love them no matter what...

I wouldn't want to see my friend or the other kids at all after something like that. I am sure I'd feel like i'd lost a friend as well as the strangeness of the over-the-line doctor playing.


I hope things settle down. You are doing a great job. Hang in there!

:hugs

[LauraFL]

Ashley, it sounds like you handled the situation just wonderfully! I think you struck the right balance. As far as contacting your physician goes, um, I think YOU, your husband and God know your child better than a doctor does. The physician is only good for general info.

The way that boy was acting and talking is definitely NOT normal sexual development. We had a similar incident with a neighborhood boy when my kids were little. He acted out too and also exposed himself repeatedly to different boys in the restroom at school. His parents were real low-lifes, with porn all over the house. They didn't even bother to hide it. The kid eventually got kicked out of school because they couldn't get his behavior under control. He was in elementary school. The parents both worked with one working the night shift and sleeping all day leaving the kids unsupervised. The kid experimented on his younger brother who was 1 1/2 years old while the dad was sleeping. (He told this to other kids!) But the parents never lost custody of their children because (everyone figured) he was a cop.

No one in the neighborhood liked them or would let their kids play with that kid. He'll probably grow up to have a twisted and warped view of sex due to his confusion. He was exposed to explicit sex long before he was ready to see such things. There are all kinds of weird people out there who do not take as good care of their children as you would. I wouldn't let my kids be exposed to them again. And I like the suggestion to report the situation to child protective services, so they can find out why that kid is acting out like that. Your kids however will be fine I'm sure.

Smart thinking not to get too upset in front of the children. Venting here means they'll never know how truly freaked out you were about the whole thing. Prayers going up for you!