How do you know when it's over?

[SouthernLady1]

In a marriage, how do you know when it's over? When do you finally walk away? I'm just so freaking confused right now. These past few months have been an emotional roller coaster ride and I've pretty much reached my limit. My DH and I haven't even been married for 2 years and I'm ready to give up already. How sad is that?

He's just changed so much from the man I married. I don't even know him anymore. We started having problems a few months ago. Lack of communication really. Then he started developing a "connection" with one of his female co-workers. Basically talking to her about all the things he used to talk to be about. Things only got worse from there and it ended with him telling me to leave because he needed to "find himself". He came to me the next day, crying and making promises about actually trying to make our marriage work and about all the things he was going to do different. I ended up taking him back because I believed him. That was over a month ago.

The first week or so he really seemed to be putting in an effort to make this work but now it's like we went through a time machine because things are the same as they were before, only worse. He's still withdrawn and we only talk when I start the conversation and hardly ever about anything important. Most of our important conversations end up with me doing all the talking and him giving his usual answer of "I don't know". He's also gotten even closer with previously mentioned co-worker and they're like best friends now. Maybe it's just me, but in my experience a man and a woman can never be "just friends". Especially when the friendship is as close as the one these two have. It always leads to something more. And that's what I'm afraid of.

Last night we had a serious conversation that opened my eyes to some things and made me confused about others. We talked for awhile before I told him that I believed that if he had to make a choice between me and her, he would choose her. I was of course met with silence so I came right out and asked him who he would choose. And he didn't know! He had to sit there and think for awhile before he would answer me. He eventually said that he would choose me but it's the thinking about it so long that has me where I am now.
I told him we would talk about it later and we still haven't. I honestly don't know what to say or do. I feel like he was telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. I mean, if he was as committed to this marriage as I am, he wouldn't have needed to think about it. He would have just known. Part of me wants to just throw my hands up and be done with it but another part of me keeps saying that I'm not a quitter and that I should stay and try some more. I'm just so confused and I don't know which part of me I want to listen to. I mean, how do you really know when it's over? I just keep thinking that if I stay, we'll have a repeat performance of that night a month ago when we both spoke in anger and said things we didn't mean.

I just really need someone to talk to and I can't talk to my parents because I can't bring myself to bring it up. I don't want to worry them I guess. I just need honest opinions on the situation from people who don't know us and aren't likely to only see what they want to see. Which is how my family is.
Sorry this is so long but it feels so good to finally get this off my chest. I may actually be able to sleep tonight.

[Jennyl]

I wish I had an answer for you. I suggest you get some counselling. Go as a couple if he is open to that.....also go by yourself. When my marriage was ending I went for counselling both individual and as a couple and it was a huge help for me.

[LadyBeloved]

The thing that struck me about your post was that it was so matter-of-fact with no histrionics. Since I don't know you at all, I don't know if that is your usual style or if you are simply resigned.

Does he understand that his relationship with his co-worker is inappropriate given the state of your marriage? Do you think he's having an affair with her? Or do you think that's the next step for him?

*I* would not develop a close relationship like this with a married man and most especially a married man going through a rough patch with his wife. It's a recipe for trouble.

Did you get the sense that he would be receptive to counseling or couples therapy? You can't work on what's wrong unless he is honest about what exactly he thinks is wrong or at least explain why he's being so distant and aloof. You can't carry the weight of your relationship by yourself.

You know your family better but I'll bet if they knew you were going through this alone, they'd not be happy.

[Fine Mind]

Sorry about this rough time!
I agree you will probably need to have some professional or spiritual help to continue but I have a few questions.
First of all, how old are you both and how long were you in a committed relationship before you married?
Why did you marry him in the first place? Top ten reasons, please.
When you look down the road ten years from now, where do you want to be in terms of family/children, housing, finances? In other words, what mutual dreams do you two have?

So many of us marry out of lust/passion/physical closeness and that carries us along for a long ride before reality checks in.

The one thing I would advise for right now is to stop blaming yourself for the current situation. Engage in some diversion that is unrelated to this-- at least for an hour each day. Visit your family; keep them in your lives. You don't have to discuss the situation; just be around people who really love you. Feel free to come in here any time. The collective experiences brought to this board are just amazing. Hugs

[funkycamper]

I concur that counseling, preferably as a couple but individually would be OK if he won't go, would be a big help to you right now.

Fine Mind has an excellent suggestion regarding mutual dreams. Often people really don't discuss these issues well. Do you both wants kids? When? How many? How do you both envision they will be raised? Will one of you stay home? If so, how will you plan to deal with the income loss? How will responsibilities be split/shared? And on and on. You get the picture, right?

Often times, people find that they really don't have shared values/dreams. If you are on the same wavelength on the big picture of how you want your life to be, then working on saving the marriage might be the right choice. If you really don't share values/dreams, then I would predict many more rocky patches ahead.

Please don't share this with your parents. I've witnessed several situations where friends have shared their marriage problems with their parents. Then, if the marriage improves and they decide to stay together, the parents will often now have a negative impression of the spouse and hold a grudge. I can tell you a few horror stories of awful holidays and other gatherings because of these grudges and how they treated the spouse. It's only natural for a parent to side with their child and be protective. I don't fault the parents for this. But it can really wreak havoc in the future.

Seek out a close friend who is rational, not overly-reactive, and who is good at keeping secrets to share your secrets with.

I hope things work out for the best for you.

[USMCmom]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be tough. I'll be honest here, it sounds like he's having an affair or is very close to it with this co-worker. If he wants to save his marriage then I would suggest counselling. I know a lot of people don't like it and won't do it, but some will. It's worth trying. I agree with the poster that said to leave family out of it for now. It can cause negative feeling towards your husband, even if it works out. If counselling doesn't work or you feel things don't improve and he won't talk to you, then unfortunately you have your answer. If no children are involved, be glad. My DH's first marriage only last 1 year. He also said that his ex changed right after they got married. I'm wishing you the best.

[WriterGirl]

I'm so sorry you are going thru this. Marriage is tough and takes a lot of work. You've gotten some good advice here. Definitely counseling is in order and he needs it to. For him to have to think about choosing you over the other woman is indicative of his internal confusion. You both seem lost in your marriage, and counseling can either help put you on the path together or it will help you see that you are not meant to be together. People change in a marriage and not always for the good. Growing together is great and makes a successful marriage, but when one partner takes the fork to the right and the other to the left it's hard on a marriage and extremely difficult to put it right again, especially when there are outside influences that pull you away from each other and take precedence over your marriage.

You asked "when do you know it's over." Every marriage is different, but for me it took 3 years to get to the point I knew without a doubt that it was over. We went to counseling which helped only during the time we went. We would fall into the same patterns you are experiencing. For a while things were right, then the same old pattern of my DH's neglect, lack of communication, never being home, etc. would start all over again. We went thru this pattern time after time until I finally realized that we had drifted so far apart and that my DH had other problems that needed to be fixed before our marriage could be fixed. When he refused to work on these other things to save our marriage, I was done and we are now divorcing.

There were outside influences that destroyed my marriage because my DH refused to seek help or get rid of them. You need to ask your DH what is really going on with him that he needs to seek outside companionship, etc. A break away from each other might help put things in perspective for both of you.

Erin

[SouthernLady1]

First off, I'd like to thank everyone for giving me such wonderful advice. I myself have given a lot of thought to counseling. Both as a couple and individually. I haven't talked to him about it but he's not usually the type to go for things like that. He's not much of a talker and sometimes it's hard for him to voice his thoughts or feelings. I don't think he's having an affair but I *DO* think he's heading that way. And I don't think she's doing much in the way of trying to discourage him.

To answer the questions FineMind asked, we're both 21. Young I know but we dated for 4 years before getting engaged and I've known him forever. As for the top ten reasons I married him: He's my best friend, the one I can talk to about anything or at least it used to be that way. He listens to me in a way no one else ever has and he really "hears me". I can be myself around him without having to pretend I'm someone else. He understands me in a way no one else ever has. He's always honest with me even if it means telling me something I don't want to hear. He has such a big heart and he loves with everything he is. He always encourages me to do the things I want to do and reach my full potential. Just seeing his smile makes my heart beat faster. But mostly I married him because I couldn't imagine my life without him. I was in a really bad place before I met him and he helped bring me back and begin to look forward to my future. As for our future, yes we both want children. We even tried for a few months last year before taking a break and I'm not ready to try again until we can get our marriage problems sorted. He has a really good job and I see him being there for awhile and I'm working on earning a degree in Early Childhood Education.

I think most of his problems go back to his childhood. His parents had a very ugly divorce when he was a child and things between them are strained even now. He's not close to either one of his parents or his brother. His teenage years were spent trying to be the perfect son and he never really made any mistakes. He didn't really "live" back then. My teenage years were the exact opposite. I was a trouble maker and I lived those years to the fullest I made a ton of mistakes but I learned very important lessons from them. He never did any of that and never really got to have all the fun that comes with being a teenager. Then we got married and real life hit and turned him into the person he is now.

I think I'm going to sit him down tonight and have another talk. Tell him what I think and how I'm feeling. Tell him that I think we should start counseling and see what he thinks. I'm also thinking about a brief separation for a month or two. Let us live our own lives for awhile and see how that goes. Maybe separate for awhile and go to counseling.

Thank you and for all the wonderful advice you gave.

[toni1954]

Why don't you let him read what you wrote here. I think he needs to know how much you love him and want to make things good again.

[Skinnymocah]

If he isn't much of a talker, is he much of a writer? What I mean is if you put your feelings on paper and ask him to respond in kind, will he do that? Only thing I'd ask for and be prepared for is brutal honesty. I would not want to waste my time working toward healing something that my partner had already given up on. I would need to know what was up and how to move foward, either together or alone.

[SouthernLady1]

See, the thing is he used to be a talker. We would share everything with each other and lie in bed for hours just talking. It's only now that he doesn't talk as much. He's withdrawl from everyone and it seems all we do each day is make small talk. He's not much of a writer either but my not being able to read his writing could have something to do with it. Personally, I am a writer. When I can't put my feelings into words, I usually write them down and he knows this. We have wrote back and forth to each other and emailed each other but he's really not good at the writing part.

We had the talk last night and he agreed to a brief separation. I told him we both had some things to think about and some issues to work out and I think it would be best to do it alone. He also agreed to counseling so I guess maybe he is willing to make an effort. He's leaving this weekend.

I also had a talk with my parents and explained my decision to them. They support it completely and think this really is the best thing to do at the moment. They've noticed how he's been the past few weeks and were also fearing a repeat performance of last month but they were hoping it wouldn't come to that. They were actually trying to figure out how to approach the subject with me. So we're going to try it this way and see what happens. I figure either way I'll have my answer. Thanks again for all the advice and listening to my rambling. You ladies are wonderful!

[berries&cream]

I agree that counseling seems very wise at this time, and I am glad that he is willing to go with you. I don't believe you should undergoe a "trial separation". These too often lead to divorce. I believe very strongly that once two people are married they should stay together. Love is a choice, and its hard work. Neither of you have done anything terrible to the other, your problems are small things that can be worked out. I just don't believe you should get a divorce simply because you are not talking like you used to and he has a female friend. It may help to encourage him to find more and closer male friends, so that the people outside of you he confides in are less of a perceived threat to your relationship. You could also befriend his female friend yourself, and ask him to see her mostly in the presence of other people. I am married and have many male friends, my husband is incredibly understanding and trusting. I trust him as well, but I have never had any reason not to. I know that its tough to see him get along so well mentally with another woman, but if its not actually cheating then its something you can work out. Marriage is never easy, it never will be. There will always be tough times, but hopefully your spouse is worth going through tough times for.