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Old 09-09-2012, 10:52 AM   #121
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[QUOTE=TuscanGirl;15931125]:
Blue!!
I want to look like your avi!
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Yeah, Tuscan Girl, me too Put on there for inspirational purposes only.

Sounds like a fun day in store for you, any idea what movie?
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #122
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Hi Blue and everyone,

I was doing nutritional ketosis without calling it that - probably what you'll be doing just with the right name (nutritional ketosis). Barry Groves has been advocating this way of eating for years and I found him (and these wonderful people), at just the right time.

I just got a meter a couple of weeks ago and then the expensive strips came.

The urine keto strips have not been useful or informative to this way of eating, I don't think.

I think Portcop is right - just start eating this way. It only took me a day or two to not be hungry. My failure now is eating too few calories.

That said, I would get a ****** account and start tracking every bite. It's tedious but it's very eye-opening.

On that NK thread, a few people who thought they were doing well got their meters and found they were not in ketosis. I'm not selling a meter, but I will say I lurkingly thought their protein levels were too high.

I wouldn't worry much about calories. Decide on your protein number (55 is probably good; eat to your goal weight) then decide how many carbs you want to eat each day. The successful people seem to be eating very low carb 20-30 or so each day. I think Barry Groves thought it could go higher. BUT if you are aiming to get into ketosis, just go very low carb a few days. And the rest of your calories should come from fat. So you're looking at a lot of butter and cream cheese (lower protein sources of fat).

It's amazing how this way of eating seems to have unlocked a giant mystery for people who have been low-carbing for years. Too much protein turns to fat. Just like too many carbs did - except carbs make us hungry, I think.

I think we are doubly blessed here because Buffy has just recently jumped in with both feet so we'll all be able to tweak together. Except for the startlingly large number of people who seem to be at goal and travel these United States and the world. You tiny girls know who you are.....

Welcome and I wish all the good people all this board a great Sunday afternoon!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:12 AM   #123
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Oh and Mary Kay, can you believe BlueTopaz took a picture of me and used it as her avi??
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #124
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Blue and anybody who wants it. Someone posted this link on the NK thread. It's a tiny little program Rebecca Latham did on Excel so you can tweak your numbers.

Plug in the number of grams of protein you want, the same for carbs, and maybe leave the fat alone. Very useful.

https://www.box.com/s/e244d6ebddaf5605d208
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:26 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Oh and Mary Kay, can you believe BlueTopaz took a picture of me and used it as her avi??
Pffffftttt, right!

Small world...I'm on a thread w/Mom2Zeke who is also active in Nutritional Ketosis and she did figure out my protein gram -64 I believe.

No worry about calories? okay, won't. I'm hungry most days anyway.

I was wondering about the 60g carbs Dr. Grove was talking about. I saw his menu's included "b.r.e.a.d". OMG! I knew that I would have to tweak that part or else, more water weight, more appetite, being a guinea pig on a wheel and getting nowhere!

One of the things he said was that if you are not overweight, do not diet. Techically I'm "not" but I'm on the high end of normal BMI. Because, he says, his diet may not work. GULP. So, at that point, I thought I may as well see what my protein should be, I know my carbs will be net 20 or less, didn't know what calories to shoot for and kinda hard if you are supposed to eat alot of fat, how can you do that when protein and fat are calorie dense?

I did like the section that he doesn't advocate excercising like a fiend. I do exercise but not to the point of extreme pain, which he warns against.

Gotta do some planning and yes, I do use ****** and love that program. I just gotta be more dilligent about recording everything going forward.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #126
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Oh good - Mom2Zeke or Rebecca are the experts. I hope the day comes when you are not hungry. I'm not hungry.

You are not technically overweight, but you wish to weigh less to bring down your BMI - got it. I guess you really will need to see what you are eating and how it affects your weight. Glad you are posting here, too!
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:29 PM   #127
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Hi gang..

Welcome, Blue..Very interesting conversation..

Some of us have corresponded with Barry in the past and he said 60 wasn't a hard and fast number in the carb department..It all depends on age, activity, metabolism, etc.
Most women have to go lower than that. Yes, he does mention bread..but remember he lives in England he and his wife walk a lot and exercise a lot..

Buffy, it is one day at a time..

Nice to see so many ladies on here..I love it..
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:39 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Blue and anybody who wants it. Someone posted this link on the NK thread. It's a tiny little program Rebecca Latham did on Excel so you can tweak your numbers.

Plug in the number of grams of protein you want, the same for carbs, and maybe leave the fat alone. Very useful.

https://www.box.com/s/e244d6ebddaf5605d208
JM - Thanks and I did dowload it but it's password protected.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:51 PM   #129
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OK - open a blank excel spreadsheet.

Starting at column C on line 4 make the following headings:
Calories (cell C4) Fat Grams (D4) Protein Grams (E4) Carb Grams (F4) Fiber Grams (G4) Net Carbs (H4)

Under the Calories heading in cell C5 type: =(D5*9)+((E5+F5)*4)
The only other thing you need to enter is how to get the net carbs, so in cell H5 enter: =F5-G5

And here is what is written underneath.

CHANGES CAN ONLY BE MADE IN THE YELLOW BOXES. THE BLUE AND GREEN BOXES WILL CHANGE AUTOMATICALLY.
STEP 1 PUT IN THE NUMBER OF PROTEIN GRAMS YOU DESIRE.
STEP 2 PUT IN THE NUMBER OF TOTAL CARBS YOU DESIRE.
IF YOU ARE COUNTING NET CARBS, YOU CAN ALSO PUT IN THE NUMBER OF GRAMS OF FIBER THAT YOU DESIRE TO GET CARBS.

STEP 4 ADJUST THE NUMBER OF FAT GRAMS UNTIL YOU GET THE FAT PERCENTAGE YOU DESIRE.

YOU WILL NOTICE THAT I DID NOT GIVE THE PERCENTAGES FOR PROTEIN AND CARBS, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT MATTER.

YOUR GRAMS OF PROTEIN ARE BASED ON YOUR GOAL WEIGHT, NOT ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR TOTAL CALORIES.

YOUR GRAMS OF CARBS ARE BASED ON YOUR CARB TOLERANCE, NOT ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR TOTAL CALORIES.


(yellow cells are D5, E5, F5, G5)
(and it's not me shouting, I just copied and pasted...

Last edited by JMCM1; 09-09-2012 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:45 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
OK - open a blank excel spreadsheet.

Starting at column C on line 4 make the following headings:
Calories (cell C4) Fat Grams (D4) Protein Grams (E4) Carb Grams (F4) Fiber Grams (G4) Net Carbs (H4)

Under the Calories heading in cell C5 type: =(D5*9)+((E5+F5)*4)
The only other thing you need to enter is how to get the net carbs, so in cell H5 enter: =F5-G5

And here is what is written underneath.

CHANGES CAN ONLY BE MADE IN THE YELLOW BOXES. THE BLUE AND GREEN BOXES WILL CHANGE AUTOMATICALLY.
STEP 1 PUT IN THE NUMBER OF PROTEIN GRAMS YOU DESIRE.


STEP 2 PUT IN THE NUMBER OF TOTAL CARBS YOU DESIRE.
IF YOU ARE COUNTING NET CARBS, YOU CAN ALSO PUT IN THE NUMBER OF GRAMS OF FIBER THAT YOU DESIRE TO GET CARBS.

STEP 4 ADJUST THE NUMBER OF FAT GRAMS UNTIL YOU GET THE FAT PERCENTAGE YOU DESIRE.

YOU WILL NOTICE THAT I DID NOT GIVE THE PERCENTAGES FOR PROTEIN AND CARBS, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT MATTER.

YOUR GRAMS OF PROTEIN ARE BASED ON YOUR GOAL WEIGHT, NOT ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR TOTAL CALORIES.

YOUR GRAMS OF CARBS ARE BASED ON YOUR CARB TOLERANCE, NOT ON A PERCENTAGE OF YOUR TOTAL CALORIES.


(yellow cells are D5, E5, F5, G5)
(and it's not me shouting, I just copied and pasted...

Thanks JM and I did the excel worksheet - I put in the correct info in the right cells but the formula didn't work - when I put my numbers in the yellow cells, nothing happens. I'll play around with it when I have time but the formula looks right and all.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:16 PM   #131
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Hi Y'all!
Blue!

Its been a good week-end. We went for a two day motorcycle ride with friends. This morning we had a BBQ @ church & I took a green salad. There was just enough of it left by the time I got there, so I was able to eat with everyone, plus a burger patty. Hoping it didn't have gluten in it, but I think not. So that's like the first time this year, that I've had more then a cup of coffee at a potluck.

Hope you're all enjoying a fun, relaxing week-end.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:07 PM   #132
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Hi Debby
Sounds like a good weekend for you.
Nice to hear you actually got to eat something other than coffee!
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:51 PM   #133
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Thanks for the Welcome Carolyn - nice to meet ya
I would have said that sooner but JM had me playing around with "an" Excel spreadsheet - teehee.

Thanks for sharing Barry's real thoughts on the carbs because I expected since the title was all about eating fat, that the carbs would be very, very low. I was a little shocked. Us American's don't walk as much as Europeans in every day life, in general. He didn't seem like the exerciser type since he said it was mostly for social reasons. Hmmmph. Closet exerciser? Just kidding, I did like his no balls to the walls attitude. I didn't feel like a slug so much after reading that chapter.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:02 PM   #134
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Anyone, is there a way I can make that spreadsheet available to her?
I don't know how.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:16 PM   #135
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Anyone, is there a way I can make that spreadsheet available to her?
I don't know how.
I got the Calories and the Net Carbs to work! by changing the row number of the formula (it was off 1 row)

but I cannot get the percentage of the fat grams (green box below fat grams) to work and where's the formula for that?

I would need her password to unlock her spreadsheet to see her formulas. Maybe I should PM her and tell her my problem?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:23 PM   #136
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The percentage of the fat grams is in my spreadsheet in cell D6 and the formula is
"=(D5*9)/C5"
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:25 PM   #137
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Also regarding exercise, many people say too much exercise will work against weight loss. The 2 girls who had so much initial success in the nutritional ketosis thread both said they were not exercising at all.
I don't want to mess up a good thing by exercising!
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:46 PM   #138
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Quote:
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The percentage of the fat grams is in my spreadsheet in cell D6 and the formula is
"=(D5*9)/C5"
Thanks JM, that seemed to work (I just had to change the row # like the rest of the formulas) - not sure what I did there....anyway, here are my figures:

Protein: 63 (figured by Mom2Zeke)
Carbs Desired: 30
Fiber: 8
Net Carbs: 22

Upping my fat grams to get about 80% would mean 200 grams?
That means my calories would be 2,172 ?

Wow - that seems high for fat grams and calories? I want to lose 13 lbs. Not gain!

Could you run my numbers on yours to see if this is right?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:49 PM   #139
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Also regarding exercise, many people say too much exercise will work against weight loss. The 2 girls who had so much initial success in the nutritional ketosis thread both said they were not exercising at all.
I don't want to mess up a good thing by exercising!
Well, I concur except I don't know how else to loose the thigh jiggle except to try to build the muscle. It would be nice if the jiggle would melt away like heated jello.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #140
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Wow! Everyone's been busy!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Also regarding exercise, many people say too much exercise will work against weight loss. The 2 girls who had so much initial success in the nutritional ketosis thread both said they were not exercising at all.
I don't want to mess up a good thing by exercising!
My latest obsession is Mark Sisson's The Primal Blueprint.
He believes we exercise too much!!
According to him we need moderate exercise daily (walking, biking etc) but not strenuous - like running for miles - heavy lifting about 3 days a week and for no more than an hour, and occasional sprints (like a doberman is chasing you) but those are only once a week and maybe for 30 seconds.

I think I like him because he's agreeing with what I'm doing!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffy45 View Post
Looks like lots to me!
Thanks!

[quote=BlueTopaz;15931296]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuscanGirl View Post
:
Blue!!
I want to look like your avi!
QUOTE]

Yeah, Tuscan Girl, me too Put on there for inspirational purposes only.

Sounds like a fun day in store for you, any idea what movie?
We saw the new Jane Fonda one - Peace, Love & Misunderstanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post

I think we are doubly blessed here because Buffy has just recently jumped in with both feet so we'll all be able to tweak together. Except for the startlingly large number of people who seem to be at goal and travel these United States and the world. You tiny girls know who you are.....

Welcome and I wish all the good people all this board a great Sunday afternoon!



No clue if I'm included in the tiny girls - but I'm taking it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Oh and Mary Kay, can you believe BlueTopaz took a picture of me and used it as her avi??

I KNEW she looked familiar!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DebbyL View Post
So that's like the first time this year, that I've had more then a cup of coffee at a potluck.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:49 PM   #141
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No clue if I'm included in the tiny girls - but I'm taking it!
As you SHOULD! Because yes!
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:55 PM   #142
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"Could you run my numbers on yours to see if this is right? "

You could always keep your fat down. We have found here that calories DO count (as you already suspect) but that eating more fat has kept the calories down too.

Why don't you eat to your protein goal and your carb goal and see if you are even near hungry enough to add that much fat?

What if you shot for 150 fat grams = 1726 calories?
I bet you wouldn't even want that much fat.

Rebecca Latham lost a few pounds with all the calories in her plan, then cut back on the fat because she plateaued.
- - -
167 fat grams on my calculator = 80%
And a whopping 1879 calories. How tall are you and what is your goal weight?

Last edited by JMCM1; 09-09-2012 at 08:58 PM..
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:20 AM   #143
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Wow! I'm lurking and learning as you guys discuss this.

Thinking out loud here...despite success with the blood glucose control, there's little weight loss and that has to happen to get better long-term control. So, reducing carbs and protein and upping fat even more today.

Mary Kay: I really like Mark Sisson's exercise philosophy too and it seems to get results quickly. Lifting heavy things (and squats) firms up the flabby muscle quickly, especially the rear end. Man, I hate being old and weak!! Those old PT type exercises really work.

Carry on...

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Old 09-10-2012, 05:23 AM   #144
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Morning gals,
Wow, morning is coming earlier to me now that I am back lowcarbing! Interesting.

Blue, that is a high number of fat grams, I think you will find that you aren't that hungry as you adjust to the diet but everyone is different. My fat grams are usually between 105 to 130 or something like that, around 70%. But, I am still in the tweaking stage too so that could change. It is just so luxurious eating all those yummy fats, I have to say!

Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. We did and our weather has cooled a little so it is getting really nice here.

Work in the office here today, my desk seems to get so messy when I don't work in here, hmmm?????
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:25 AM   #145
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Deb, it is definitely a tweaking process to get all those right. I lost well this past, 1st, week but we will see what this week brings.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:27 AM   #146
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Buffy, that's great! Hope it is more of the same.

Loving the cooler weather here too.

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Old 09-10-2012, 05:33 AM   #147
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Down 2 lbs in 2 days just by eating more fat and lower my protein .upping my cals,,,wow unreal we can eat this good and lose weight and feel great too..I love it!!!

I'm now at my 20 lb weight lost..July 2 I was 201 today is 181... Woooooo.i would love to be in the 177 by oct 1',,,,,,,,,I can do it..
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:41 AM   #148
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Morning!!

Portcop - yes you can!!

Am i the only one that is sad about cooler weather??

I miss the 80's - not the 100's - just the 80's.
Luckily we're supposed to go back up tomorrow! Phew!

Today is a normal day.
RIP class (Deb - squats with a barbell over your shoulders and later, lunges!), home to clean (and it needs it!) Library Foundation Board meeting, and FINALLY after talking about it forever - starting T-shirt quilt for daughter #2!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:59 AM   #149
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Thanks Judy for all your time in helping me. I should be learning your real names instead of trying to make the excel worksheet work This morning, whatever I accomplished last night doesn't work this morning. I get VALUE under calories and no fat percentage. That's fine - I'll just work with the protein and carbs and see where the fat falls. Sounds good.
I'm 5'7" - goal weight is: 140 lbs.

I miss the warm 80's weather too. Autumn is entering in - cool and damp, later winter - cold and damp. Oh well, it happens every year!

Hi Buffy - Normally, my appetite is under control w/low carbing but I've had to be on Progesterone BC pills for 21 days to stop a month long horrible TOM. So...I'm dealing w/bloat and hunger. I have a couple of weeks left on them, then done. My vacay is 10/6 - I was hoping to lose 10 lbs by then but it's not likely.

How's everyone doing? Sorry for missing peeps - I look forward to getting to know all of you. Apologies in advance: I don't mean to be a thread jack. I work during the day so I won't be on till evenings and early mornings.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:01 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
Down 2 lbs in 2 days just by eating more fat and lower my protein .upping my cals,,,wow unreal we can eat this good and lose weight and feel great too..I love it!!!

I'm now at my 20 lb weight lost..July 2 I was 201 today is 181... Woooooo.i would love to be in the 177 by oct 1',,,,,,,,,I can do it..
Congrats Port - you are working it, girlie! At this rate, you will DO IT!
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