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Old 04-21-2011, 08:37 PM   #91
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I don't usually have any energy issues from a cheat day other than sometimes a pound or two that come right back off. But I will say this. All these carbs are giving me some serious intestinal rumblies if yannowhaddamean LOL! Ugh, and I feel bloated. I baked brownies with my son, and ate one. It was only one, but I feel stuffed!

You don't even want to know what I had for dinner. Garbage. Oh well, if it gets the scale moving again, it will be worth it!!!
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:53 PM   #92
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I totally agree with you, chelsie, when I "commit carbacide" bagels are the only thing that taste good!


Mr Biggs, this thread is amazing, thanks for starting it. I do cheat days from time to time with high carbs... do you think one should still eat fat on those days or keep it to a minimum? I've heard a few different approaches... that the combo of carbs AND fat is heaven for the glucose/insulin/leptin team... and I've heard that fat will likely get stored as fat and on those days the focus should be on as many carbs as possible and little fat. What's your opinion? I'm wondering if because it's just one day if it really matters... maybe just enjoy yourself?
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:00 AM   #93
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I totally agree with you, chelsie, when I "commit carbacide" bagels are the only thing that taste good!


Mr Biggs, this thread is amazing, thanks for starting it. I do cheat days from time to time with high carbs... do you think one should still eat fat on those days or keep it to a minimum? I've heard a few different approaches... that the combo of carbs AND fat is heaven for the glucose/insulin/leptin team... and I've heard that fat will likely get stored as fat and on those days the focus should be on as many carbs as possible and little fat. What's your opinion? I'm wondering if because it's just one day if it really matters... maybe just enjoy yourself?
In my opinion I would say that you should try to eat fat and carbs together. I think the fat slows and actually negates some of the carbs effect on blood sugar. I think that the hard part is not going crazy with the carbs when having a free day or whatever. Once again I am a big believer in philosophy with my eating, and have this to say about free days.

When you have a free day or cheat day, does that mean a normal day is prison or hard?

Is the free day or cheating what you really want to be eating every day?

I don't take free days because, I have a medical problem. I have obesity, and I will have it forever. I have to realize I am special and I have rules to obey. I can chow down on some sausage and cheese, but I can't eat bread. I have foods I can eat and foods I can't eat. I had a problem with tea. I'm not sure why tea causes problems, but it did, and now its gone forever. I have accepted who I am, and what I am. It's not all that bad really. I can eat a lb of bacon for breakfast and a huge dinner and wake up weighing less. I'm not on a diet anymore, I'm an obese person who has accepted themselves and is dealing with there illness. So what I'm saying from a philosophical point of view is this. A free day is just a way of saying you hate your diet and want something else. Eventually you will give into your desires. If eating bad is freedom, then eating good is prison.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:25 AM   #94
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I totally agree. I really shouldn't have referred to it as a "cheat" day because that suggests one's doing something wrong/unplanned. I was more referring to the days like you were suggesting to Chelsie, up your carbs (temporarily, of course) to get your weight loss started again.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:29 PM   #95
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Yes maybe they should be called something else. Like an "up" day or meal...(upping your carbs) or a "carb" day. I really am satisfied on this WOE and I only did it to shake things up. When I was on maintenance before, I would occasionally "splurge" at a potluck or party or something. But the splurge was on pita chips or bbq chicken. Not on cupcakes or ice cream.

Honestly, the only thing I truly miss is good bbq sauce. We use a lot of it. I know there are decent ones that use splenda, but I refuse to eat artificial sweeteners, and I can't find any good recipes that use stevia. I've tried a couple, but something is just not quite right about it.

So keep an eye out for stevia-bbq sauce for me =)
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:45 PM   #96
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I like "up" day. In the body building world, they call them "refeeds".

Regarding the BBQ, how do you feel about Truvia? It's mostly eryrthritol but also some part of the stevia plant. I recently made a sugar free ketchup recipe that called for Splenda and I had to do some conversions (I used about 1/3 of what the recipe called for, since they're different levels of sweetness) but it came out really great.

I wonder if a spicy BBQ would be better with stevia than say a "honey" bbq type sauce. I want to experiment!

is this one of the ones you tried? looks intense but goooood!
Barbecue Sauce with Stevia
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Old 04-22-2011, 02:41 PM   #97
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Hello - I'm new

I'm transitioning to this WOE from alternate day dieting (JUDDD). This is my fourth day on plan, and so far I love it. It's felt really easy and natural to stay within the percentages. At the same time, I am switching from being a vegetarian who also eats seafood to eating meat and poultry again after 8 years of not touching it. That part has been harder, although I'm sure I'll get there. I'm trying to follow the EFGT plan along with Cate Shanahan's "Food Rules" which stresses the anti inflammatory aspect of low carb with a huge emphasis on eating grass fed organic meats (of course the expensive ones, lol), and utilizing more old world recipes like bone broth (stock) and fewer processed meats. Anyhow, I know there's a learning curve in there for me bigtime with coming off of being Veg.

I'm following this plan to the letter for now, with the hope of getting rid of more belly fat than I have been able to lose otherwise. Eventually I would like to be able to schedule in some "Up" days with higher calorie counts and higher carb counts, and follow them with a day of fasting to again deplete the glycogen and get back into fat burning mode quickly.

Chelsie, it's been the same for me as for you - where a higher carb day on occasion seems to jump start my metabolism when it's at a point where it has adapted completely to whatever I'm doing. Also it's been easy to follow the alternate day diet, because I know I can have whatever I want at least once a week. I'm really hoping to be able to do that with this plan. Mr Biggs, for me that doesn't mean I dislike the regular plan days, it just would be a way to make this a plan I can do long term, and a way to still be able to attend weekend functions with my family when they happen without dietary restriction. But then again, I suppose those will be easier by not having the vegetarian restriction anymore. But I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it.

So far I love this plan, and these boards have been very helpful and educational. Thank you for posting!!

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Old 04-22-2011, 02:51 PM   #98
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I totally agree with you, chelsie, when I "commit carbacide" bagels are the only thing that taste good!


Mr Biggs, this thread is amazing, thanks for starting it. I do cheat days from time to time with high carbs... do you think one should still eat fat on those days or keep it to a minimum? I've heard a few different approaches... that the combo of carbs AND fat is heaven for the glucose/insulin/leptin team... and I've heard that fat will likely get stored as fat and on those days the focus should be on as many carbs as possible and little fat. What's your opinion? I'm wondering if because it's just one day if it really matters... maybe just enjoy yourself?
I think that once enough insulin is released and everything switches to fat storing mode, the body stores ALL excess calories as fat. So to me it wouldn't make sense to still eat the fat too; that would just be more calories stored. Unless you're talking about keeping the carb counts low enough, and spread over enough time so that the fat would have a chance to lessen the carb's impact enough to not cause fat storage to happen at all. It's so complicated. I wish there was a siren when I was within range of switching to fat storage. Then everything would be so much easier to manage!!
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Old 04-22-2011, 04:48 PM   #99
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If I'm going to have an "up" day I sure as heck am going to enjoy foods that I like, not low-fat crap!! LOL!!

But in all seriousness, I think that if you have a bit of carbs in a meal (let's say half of a fresh orange) it's better to eat it with something high in fat, so it lessens the effects of the carbs. But if you're on an all-out free-for-all carbocide mission, then yes, I think the extra fat is stored just like any non-low-carb diet.

But after a carby meal or day, I just go back to the low carb WOE and it flushes it right off. I have never had any long-term gains from an up day. It always melts right back off.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:17 PM   #100
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If I'm going to have an "up" day I sure as heck am going to enjoy foods that I like, not low-fat crap!! LOL!!

But in all seriousness, I think that if you have a bit of carbs in a meal (let's say half of a fresh orange) it's better to eat it with something high in fat, so it lessens the effects of the carbs. But if you're on an all-out free-for-all carbocide mission, then yes, I think the extra fat is stored just like any non-low-carb diet.

But after a carby meal or day, I just go back to the low carb WOE and it flushes it right off. I have never had any long-term gains from an up day. It always melts right back off.
Yup - agreed, but I do like to fast the day after because then I feel pretty sure the glycogen is flushed out and I'm back to fat burning right away. That's what I think anyhow, no way to tell if it's actually the case.
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Old 04-22-2011, 07:45 PM   #101
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One of the main things scientist are starting to learn is that dieting is one of the main causes of obesity. Dr. Groves covers this in his book in some detail. The danger with playing with you body is that your body will defend itself if it feels attacked. Using EFGT to lose weight and then going back to your old ways is going to end with you back on EFGT to lose weight again. I have let go of foods I can't have. I will never, unless im starving to death, eat a candy bar again. I'm ok with it, because I have accepted my problem. If you are an obese person then I think you should think really hard about your options. I don't believe I can ever eat high carb again. I'm not going to have a free day that causes me to relapse into my old life. I think there are people here who just want to lose some weight, who are not morbidly obese, and will not agree or understand what I am saying. I am saying for myself there is no other way, its is eat this way or I die at 600lbs or something higher.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:02 AM   #102
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If I'm going to have an "up" day I sure as heck am going to enjoy foods that I like, not low-fat crap!! LOL!!

But in all seriousness, I think that if you have a bit of carbs in a meal (let's say half of a fresh orange) it's better to eat it with something high in fat, so it lessens the effects of the carbs. But if you're on an all-out free-for-all carbocide mission, then yes, I think the extra fat is stored just like any non-low-carb diet.

But after a carby meal or day, I just go back to the low carb WOE and it flushes it right off. I have never had any long-term gains from an up day. It always melts right back off.

Does this make you a "carbikaze pilot"?
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:54 AM   #103
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Mr. Biggs, I agree with you. For seriously obsese people, changing your way of eating is like a prescription. If a doctor gave you life-saving medication, you wouldn't stop taking it for a day, just cause you felt like it. You have to be vigilant. I was borderline obese/overweight when I was at my highest weight of 200 lbs (I'm also tall- 5'9) so I have never been in your shoes, But I'm so glad you're taking it seriously.
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Old 04-23-2011, 07:32 PM   #104
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Mr. Biggs, I agree with you. For seriously obsese people, changing your way of eating is like a prescription. If a doctor gave you life-saving medication, you wouldn't stop taking it for a day, just cause you felt like it. You have to be vigilant. I was borderline obese/overweight when I was at my highest weight of 200 lbs (I'm also tall- 5'9) so I have never been in your shoes, But I'm so glad you're taking it seriously.
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them. I hope I have not offended anyone by my comments. I am simple stating the fact, that I have an addiction to carbs, and that if I go back I won't be able to stop.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:55 AM   #105
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My mom (who has struggled with her weight her whole life) told me this: if only she could just give up food forever. Alcoholics and druggies have it easy. They can give up alcohol forever. They can give up drugs forever. It won't be easy... but once they get "clean" they can just avoid them. But food addicts don't have that luxury. They still have to eat. And that is like telling an alcoholic- you HAVE to drink this one drink.... but nothing else. And don't become instantly addicted. Or here, take this one little tiny drug... not enough to get you high, but enough to make you want more. But that's all you can have.

Obese people are forced to face their demons every single day, at each and every meal.
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:01 PM   #106
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One of the main things scientist are starting to learn is that dieting is one of the main causes of obesity. Dr. Groves covers this in his book in some detail. The danger with playing with you body is that your body will defend itself if it feels attacked. Using EFGT to lose weight and then going back to your old ways is going to end with you back on EFGT to lose weight again. I have let go of foods I can't have. I will never, unless im starving to death, eat a candy bar again. I'm ok with it, because I have accepted my problem. If you are an obese person then I think you should think really hard about your options. I don't believe I can ever eat high carb again. I'm not going to have a free day that causes me to relapse into my old life. I think there are people here who just want to lose some weight, who are not morbidly obese, and will not agree or understand what I am saying. I am saying for myself there is no other way, its is eat this way or I die at 600lbs or something higher.
I think for me it's more of a psychological trick than anything else, meaning when tempted I can tell myself that I can have whatever it is on Saturday or Sunday. I'd say at least 90% of the time by then I don't really care about whatever it was. And you're absolutely correct in your initial post, that this plan actually does include enough carbs to make eating what I want daily very easy. So far I've been on plan 100% every day - this is day seven. And I've had no carb cravings. I've been pretty low carb for years though, never a big white bread/boxed food fan, and not much of a sweet tooth luckily.

I had bacon today for the first time in 10 years, and it was fantastic. I made a nice bean soup and added sausage and bacon grease, and holy moley it sure does it taste better that way!!

Had a real tough time in the meat aisle though, when I went grocery shopping. It's been so long since I've had to plan meals around meat. Just haven't figured out my approach yet, other than bacon, good sausage and liverwurst.

I'm really glad I found this forum. It's discouraging the way doing an internet search for high fat recipes usually returns one recipe link and ten thousand that assume you meant low fat.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:09 PM   #107
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I think for me it's more of a psychological trick than anything else, meaning when tempted I can tell myself that I can have whatever it is on Saturday or Sunday. I'd say at least 90% of the time by then I don't really care about whatever it was. And you're absolutely correct in your initial post, that this plan actually does include enough carbs to make eating what I want daily very easy. So far I've been on plan 100% every day - this is day seven. And I've had no carb cravings. I've been pretty low carb for years though, never a big white bread/boxed food fan, and not much of a sweet tooth luckily.

I had bacon today for the first time in 10 years, and it was fantastic. I made a nice bean soup and added sausage and bacon grease, and holy moley it sure does it taste better that way!!

Had a real tough time in the meat aisle though, when I went grocery shopping. It's been so long since I've had to plan meals around meat. Just haven't figured out my approach yet, other than bacon, good sausage and liverwurst.

I'm really glad I found this forum. It's discouraging the way doing an internet search for high fat recipes usually returns one recipe link and ten thousand that assume you meant low fat.
I think with some minor amount of research you will find the kids of foods you can have with this plan.

It is important to read labels on the foods as well. You have to be on the lookout for hidden carbs and for the percentage of calories from fat.

It takes some getting use to and some proper planning, but you will find it will come naturally after awhile.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:41 PM   #108
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Hi all, I found this forum and thread a few days ago after reading ‘Eat Fat Get Thin’ and was trying to find out what people ate on it and their experiences. I have to say Mr. Biggs, thank you for the initial post here. I joined the forum just so I could pick your brain and any others who want to join in. I hope you don’t mind.

I need to lose about 170 pounds to get to my target weight. I’ve done every diet plan outside of surgery, which I think is insane, and then I learned about a high-fat diet… color me stunned.

So I started with coconut oil as suggested in Eat Fat Lose Fat, but I was still always hungry because it was about 6 Tbsp a day and everything else was normal. Then I kept the coconut oil and dropped the protein and carbs down like suggested in EFGT and it was weird… for the first time in my 41 years I haven’t been hungry 24/7. (my parents still tell stories about how I was born hungry)

Honestly, it was your post that really kicked my courage into doing it. And for about five days I’ve been following it. I feel a little better, more energy. I still haven’t gotten the courage to get back on the scales. That and exercise are the bane of my existence.

Hopefully you don’t mind if I ask some questions that I haven’t quite figured out and was hoping to get some advice.

1. How many carbs do you eat/recommend a day?

I ask because I’ve heard everywhere from 60 to 150 grams which is a big gap. I’d like to think I’m eating just 60 carb grams, but when you get to reading, hot dogs do, cream does. I mean, you wouldn’t think cream has carbs.

2. Do you count carbs from things like cream and cheese or let that go and just count bread, fruit and things like that?

3. Do you literally count your carbs or go off of a ratio like on ******?

When I figure out my recipes on it I actually figure out the carb grams from the total and find that usually at 15%, sometimes even 10%, the carbs are too high, or am I over-obsessing?

4. I read your post about someone who was saying that 53 or 66 percent of our protein acts like carbs. Where can I get this information at? I mentioned it to my brother who was learning to be a personal trainer and he looked at me like I was insane, I had nothing to back that up with.

Mostly I just want to know what to actually count the carbs to. If it’s everything then I’m going to have to add some carbs just to be happy while eating if a cup of cream is going to be 16 grams of my daily carb total.

Thanks for your time and inspiration!
Sojo
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:52 AM   #109
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Hi all, I found this forum and thread a few days ago after reading ĎEat Fat Get Thiní and was trying to find out what people ate on it and their experiences. I have to say Mr. Biggs, thank you for the initial post here. I joined the forum just so I could pick your brain and any others who want to join in. I hope you donít mind.

I need to lose about 170 pounds to get to my target weight. Iíve done every diet plan outside of surgery, which I think is insane, and then I learned about a high-fat dietÖ color me stunned.

So I started with coconut oil as suggested in Eat Fat Lose Fat, but I was still always hungry because it was about 6 Tbsp a day and everything else was normal. Then I kept the coconut oil and dropped the protein and carbs down like suggested in EFGT and it was weirdÖ for the first time in my 41 years I havenít been hungry 24/7. (my parents still tell stories about how I was born hungry)

Honestly, it was your post that really kicked my courage into doing it. And for about five days Iíve been following it. I feel a little better, more energy. I still havenít gotten the courage to get back on the scales. That and exercise are the bane of my existence.

Hopefully you donít mind if I ask some questions that I havenít quite figured out and was hoping to get some advice.

1. How many carbs do you eat/recommend a day?

I ask because Iíve heard everywhere from 60 to 150 grams which is a big gap. Iíd like to think Iím eating just 60 carb grams, but when you get to reading, hot dogs do, cream does. I mean, you wouldnít think cream has carbs.

2. Do you count carbs from things like cream and cheese or let that go and just count bread, fruit and things like that?

3. Do you literally count your carbs or go off of a ratio like on ******?

When I figure out my recipes on it I actually figure out the carb grams from the total and find that usually at 15%, sometimes even 10%, the carbs are too high, or am I over-obsessing?

4. I read your post about someone who was saying that 53 or 66 percent of our protein acts like carbs. Where can I get this information at? I mentioned it to my brother who was learning to be a personal trainer and he looked at me like I was insane, I had nothing to back that up with.

Mostly I just want to know what to actually count the carbs to. If itís everything then Iím going to have to add some carbs just to be happy while eating if a cup of cream is going to be 16 grams of my daily carb total.

Thanks for your time and inspiration!
Sojo
Great questions and a great post!

I don't count carbs or anything for that matter. I get my vitamins from things like peppers, onions, liver, and the occasional piece of a low carb fruit.
The main thing is to get on the scale and see whats going on. You have to realize that its a battle and some things are going to stall you or make you gain, and you have to alter your program to make it work. Some people can eat carbs all day and not gain, but probably not you and I. Start with the basics and eat high fat foods as much as possible and learn to realize when your full on your own. The use the scale to help you make smart choices. If you can wake up and have toast or oatmeal and you lose and you like your eating then do it, but if not then adjust and overcome.

In EGGT Dr. Groves does discuss the ratio of food that will interfere with your body using fat for energy. It's not that 59% of protein is carb, it's the fact that 58% of protein can be converted to glucose in the body and can be used for energy instead of your own body fat.

You want your body to burn it's fat for fuel, and carbs stop it at 100% of their calories, protein at 58% and fat at 10%

Hope this helps you some.
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:44 AM   #110
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Cool, thanks Mr. B. It was very helpful. It relieved me in some ways and made the foodie in me cry in other ways.

SighÖ I guess I will have to get on the scales and see whatís what.

And Iím going to have to go read Grovesí book again; I completely missed that part about protein. Probably shell-shockedÖ

Thanks again!
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:24 AM   #111
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One of the main things scientist are starting to learn is that dieting is one of the main causes of obesity. Dr. Groves covers this in his book in some detail. The danger with playing with you body is that your body will defend itself if it feels attacked. Using EFGT to lose weight and then going back to your old ways is going to end with you back on EFGT to lose weight again. I have let go of foods I can't have. I will never, unless im starving to death, eat a candy bar again. I'm ok with it, because I have accepted my problem. If you are an obese person then I think you should think really hard about your options. I don't believe I can ever eat high carb again. I'm not going to have a free day that causes me to relapse into my old life. I think there are people here who just want to lose some weight, who are not morbidly obese, and will not agree or understand what I am saying. I am saying for myself there is no other way, its is eat this way or I die at 600lbs or something higher.
This is my "truth" too..I have been lowcarbing for about 8 years plus and every time I eat carbs, I gain...Is there a lesson here? Of course, I'm 61 years old and that makes a difference, too.

Plus another "truth" is: the smaller you are, the less calories you need to fuel your body. Many LCers don't learn this lesson and think they can eat the
same amount of food they ate when they were lugging around lots of extra
weight...
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:59 AM   #112
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That's a good point, Carolyn, thanks. I've started to realize that it's a forever thing and bread and potatoes just may have to be taken from my diet forever. (which is funny and ironic since my parents are from Idaho and my grandfather was a wheat farmer)

AND... I did the deed and weighed myself. I've gained 5 pounds. So I guess I need to cut out the higher carbs and go with low.

And there was Easter, I thought I did really good on it. I had a small amount of high-fat ice cream and a couple of pieces of candy and that was it. Now I'm rethinking that I shoulda left them completely alone.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:55 PM   #113
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I'm not usually a calorie/carb counter, but have been tracking all my food on *********** (Fit Day works the same way) since starting this plan. It has been very helpful for me, as I enter my breakfast foods and then hit the percentages report and see where I am with fat and carbs. If my carbs are under 10%, I know I should have half a grapefruit or some other healthy carb to bring the percentage up over 10%. If you track your weigh there too, it gives you a daily calorie range to aim for, and that is automatically adjusted as you lose weight.

I'm really surprised at the lack of carb cravings once I upped my fat intake.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #114
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What sounds good for dinner? I'm Taking suggestions.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:59 PM   #115
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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I am having leftover meatloaf and I made some faux taters with cauliflower and my
stick blender that makes the best "taters"..
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:39 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolynF View Post
I am having leftover meatloaf and I made some faux taters with cauliflower and my
stick blender that makes the best "taters"..
That does sound good thank you.
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:44 PM   #117
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Im stalled but Im Fighting
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:43 PM   #118
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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Mr...fight through it.. If you are still stalled after a while, then your body is telling you
to adjust your plan..
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:21 PM   #119
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Shake things up, but don't commit carbocide like I did! UGH--- still regretting that.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:53 PM   #120
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Thank for the Inspiration guys. I saw some loss on the scale this morning, and that helped. I have tried mixing it up, and I think that will also help.
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