Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Health Support Groups > Diabetes
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-06-2013, 05:38 AM   #1
Major LCF Poster!
 
Aomiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,401
Gallery: Aomiel
Stats: 330/140/140 A1c 4.8
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: January 2010
Dawn phenomena

When I was still controlling my diabetes with meds, I had to take my Lantus at night and then again in the morning. The nighttime was to control my higher BG on waking (6 a.m.).

Interestingly, now that I'm diet controlled, I notice that my 6 a.m. BG is around 83-84 but by the time I sit down to breakfast at 8 a.m., it's gone up to 95. Even when I routine ate my breakfast at 10 a.m., it would go up like that. I eat about 3 carbs for breakfast (eggs and half & half) and my 2 hr PP is back down to 90 where it pretty much stays the rest of the day. So what happened to the dawn phenomena and why is it going up after I'm up and moving?
__________________
Melody
Type 2 controlled by low carb diet <25gm carbs and and controlled protein.
Aomiel is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 08-06-2013, 07:47 AM   #2
Senior LCF Member
 
lazy girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 202
Gallery: lazy girl
Your numbers at least don't look dangerous. I think that your body is still reacting to what is "perceived" as a fast or starvation mode. This happens to non-diabetics as well. However, their bodies are able to keep down any rise in blood glucose. You can get much more helpful answers by doing an internet search. I briefly tried "delayed dawn phenomenon", but the answer I looked at was addressed to Type I diabetics. Perhaps a search of delayed "dawn phenomenon Type II diabetics" would be more specific. I still think your numbers are quite safe.
lazy girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 07:48 AM   #3
.
 
ravenrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,622
Gallery: ravenrose
Stats: lost 130 lb so far, and miles to go before I sleep
WOE: low carb controlled calorie
Start Date: June, 2009
well, to start with, glucose monitors are not all that accurate. if this is a pattern day after day, maybe it is going up, but it could just be meter inaccuracy.

the hormones involved are very complicated. your body is constantly tinkering with releasing this and that to keep everything balanced. going up that much is just not enough to worry about.

it could be your body making glucose out of protein, gluconeogenesis.
ravenrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #4
Major LCF Poster!
 
Aomiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,401
Gallery: Aomiel
Stats: 330/140/140 A1c 4.8
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: January 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenrose View Post
well, to start with, glucose monitors are not all that accurate. if this is a pattern day after day, maybe it is going up, but it could just be meter inaccuracy.

it could be your body making glucose out of protein, gluconeogenesis.
I have 3 monitors (switched to others when the test strips doubled in price) and they are all the same, so I don't think it's an inaccurate meter.

Also, I don't think it's my body making glucose out of protein since I haven't eaten anything between my morning fasting and my pre-breakfast test.

I'm not worried since I haven't dropped below 80 in the morning. I was just puzzled why I'm going from low 80's to mid-90's in the morning without having eaten anything for roughly 12 hours. Both of those numbers are fasting, it's just one is when I first get up and the other about 2 hours later right before I eat.
Aomiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 07:15 AM   #5
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tyrone Georgia U.S.A.
Posts: 1,185
Gallery: E.W.
Stats: 318/297/ a lot less
WOE: Fast5
Start Date: restart again 1/17/2014
When we get up there is a surge in some hormones which make us more insulin resistant.
This is reflected in the rise in blood sugar. The same type of thing ofton hapens when we
have an infection or get a shot of cortosone. Count yourself lucky you only have a 12 to 13 mg bump in your blood sugar. I usualy have a 25 to 40 mg rise between 6am and 8am.
E.W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 02:18 PM   #6
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,110
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Low-carb eaters tend to have higher than normal fasting blood sugar.

Peter of Hyperlipid noticed this and provided the science for it, and it seems to be similar to a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon.

I am not a diabetic, but all my siblings are, so I worry about it. I'm hypothyroid, but when my endo checks my hormone levels, he includes not only the fasting number but the A1C.

I asked him about the idea that my low-carb eating gives me higher fasting BG, and he said that was true, which is why he relies more on my A1c.

Since Peter's explanation suggested that we have the equivalent of a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon, the last 2 times I was going to have labs, I had a bedtime snack (which I never do normally). My fasting numbers on those tests--usually 93-95) were 83 and 82. So I think there's something to Peter's theory (which he tested on himself).
Leo41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #7
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Gallery: Liz1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo41 View Post
Low-carb eaters tend to have higher than normal fasting blood sugar.

Peter of Hyperlipid noticed this and provided the science for it, and it seems to be similar to a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon.
LEO, do you have a date, title or link to that discussion? I went to his blog but couldn't find it. Sounds interesting.
Liz1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:19 PM   #8
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tyrone Georgia U.S.A.
Posts: 1,185
Gallery: E.W.
Stats: 318/297/ a lot less
WOE: Fast5
Start Date: restart again 1/17/2014
I am not Leo41 but here is one of the little articles. I think he has about 8 of them but this is the first.

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (2); Dawn Phenomenon
E.W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #9
Senior LCF member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,110
Gallery: Leo41
Stats: 340 then/145 now
WOE: Low carb/calorie cycling
Thanks E.W.

I read it so long ago, I'd have had to hunt for it.

The fact that my endo was aware of this affirmed it for me.
Leo41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 07:44 AM   #10
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 318
Gallery: Liz1959
Thanks for the link.
Liz1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 06:15 AM   #11
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tyrone Georgia U.S.A.
Posts: 1,185
Gallery: E.W.
Stats: 318/297/ a lot less
WOE: Fast5
Start Date: restart again 1/17/2014
I may have found something that realy works for me. Say 3 weeks ago if I got up with a fasting BG of 100mg it would rise 20 to 30 mg during the next 2 hours and 15 to 30 min. of light exercise would add another 10 to 15mg. So get up with a fasting bg of 100
hop on the treadmill for 15 min and 2 hours after I get up my BG would be in the 130 to 145 range. Not good. Well 2 weeks ago I started taking 10 to 20 grams of the soluable
fiber intulinFos in devided doses caution it can cause gas. My fasting BG is a few mg lower, my morning BG rise is only 10 to 20 mg instead of 20 to 30 mg and just 15 min. of
exercise now instead of raising my BG seems to just about stop that 10 to 20 mg rise!
The only time I did 30min. of exercise I ended up with a BG that was lower than my fasting BG. I tried other types of fiber and resistant startch ect. nothing else helped me.

IntulinFos may encourage a type of friendly bacteria that is al least in animals associated with weight loss. If you want to read more about this google weight
loss bacterium found.
E.W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:15 AM   #12
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California
Posts: 63
Gallery: ibryt
WOE: Diabetes Miracle
Start Date: 10/15/2012
According to Diane Kress, author of the Diabetes Miracle diet book, the human liver will automatically dump about 35 mg of glycogen on its own about every 5 hours if you have not eaten. So say you ate something before you went to bed at 10 pm. At about 3 pm your liver does its thing by self feeding the body and dumps about 35 mg of glycogen, which raises blood sugar levels. Then say you get up at 6 am. If you do not eat something by 8 am, the liver self feeds again and up goes blood sugar. Her way of controlling this dawn affect is to eat something within an hour of getting up in the morning. It doesn't have to be a lot. Maybe a cheese stick or something else that is under 5 carbs.....anyway, try that and see if it works. It does for me.
ibryt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 06:26 AM   #13
Major LCF Poster!
 
Aomiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,401
Gallery: Aomiel
Stats: 330/140/140 A1c 4.8
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: January 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibryt View Post
Then say you get up at 6 am. If you do not eat something by 8 am, the liver self feeds again and up goes blood sugar. Her way of controlling this dawn affect is to eat something within an hour of getting up in the morning. It doesn't have to be a lot. Maybe a cheese stick or something else that is under 5 carbs.....anyway, try that and see if it works. It does for me.
Interesting, I'm going to try this...maybe with an ounce or so of cheese first thing and see what happens!
Aomiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2013, 07:24 AM   #14
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California
Posts: 63
Gallery: ibryt
WOE: Diabetes Miracle
Start Date: 10/15/2012
I know it works for me. I have a mozzerlla cheese stick and a half glass of V8 when I get up....then you are supposed to not let more than 5 hours go by without eating some protein or low carb throughout the rest of the day to keep the liver resting...apparently this info comes from the guy that wrote the Fat Switch book. He got his info from studying what happens when bears hibernate. The liver self feeds them from the glycogen they store up. I want to buy his book and learn more about it but its pretty expensive.
ibryt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:04 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.