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-   -   Dawn phenomena (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/diabetes/809556-dawn-phenomena.html)

Aomiel 08-06-2013 05:38 AM

Dawn phenomena
 
When I was still controlling my diabetes with meds, I had to take my Lantus at night and then again in the morning. The nighttime was to control my higher BG on waking (6 a.m.).

Interestingly, now that I'm diet controlled, I notice that my 6 a.m. BG is around 83-84 but by the time I sit down to breakfast at 8 a.m., it's gone up to 95. Even when I routine ate my breakfast at 10 a.m., it would go up like that. I eat about 3 carbs for breakfast (eggs and half & half) and my 2 hr PP is back down to 90 where it pretty much stays the rest of the day. So what happened to the dawn phenomena and why is it going up after I'm up and moving? :confused:

lazy girl 08-06-2013 07:47 AM

Your numbers at least don't look dangerous. I think that your body is still reacting to what is "perceived" as a fast or starvation mode. This happens to non-diabetics as well. However, their bodies are able to keep down any rise in blood glucose. You can get much more helpful answers by doing an internet search. I briefly tried "delayed dawn phenomenon", but the answer I looked at was addressed to Type I diabetics. Perhaps a search of delayed "dawn phenomenon Type II diabetics" would be more specific. I still think your numbers are quite safe.

ravenrose 08-06-2013 07:48 AM

well, to start with, glucose monitors are not all that accurate. if this is a pattern day after day, maybe it is going up, but it could just be meter inaccuracy.

the hormones involved are very complicated. your body is constantly tinkering with releasing this and that to keep everything balanced. going up that much is just not enough to worry about.

it could be your body making glucose out of protein, gluconeogenesis.

Aomiel 08-06-2013 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenrose (Post 16547852)
well, to start with, glucose monitors are not all that accurate. if this is a pattern day after day, maybe it is going up, but it could just be meter inaccuracy.

it could be your body making glucose out of protein, gluconeogenesis.

I have 3 monitors (switched to others when the test strips doubled in price) and they are all the same, so I don't think it's an inaccurate meter.

Also, I don't think it's my body making glucose out of protein since I haven't eaten anything between my morning fasting and my pre-breakfast test.

I'm not worried since I haven't dropped below 80 in the morning. I was just puzzled why I'm going from low 80's to mid-90's in the morning without having eaten anything for roughly 12 hours. Both of those numbers are fasting, it's just one is when I first get up and the other about 2 hours later right before I eat.

E.W. 08-12-2013 07:15 AM

When we get up there is a surge in some hormones which make us more insulin resistant.
This is reflected in the rise in blood sugar. The same type of thing ofton hapens when we
have an infection or get a shot of cortosone. Count yourself lucky you only have a 12 to 13 mg bump in your blood sugar. I usualy have a 25 to 40 mg rise between 6am and 8am.

Leo41 08-12-2013 02:18 PM

Low-carb eaters tend to have higher than normal fasting blood sugar.

Peter of Hyperlipid noticed this and provided the science for it, and it seems to be similar to a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon.

I am not a diabetic, but all my siblings are, so I worry about it. I'm hypothyroid, but when my endo checks my hormone levels, he includes not only the fasting number but the A1C.

I asked him about the idea that my low-carb eating gives me higher fasting BG, and he said that was true, which is why he relies more on my A1c.

Since Peter's explanation suggested that we have the equivalent of a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon, the last 2 times I was going to have labs, I had a bedtime snack (which I never do normally). My fasting numbers on those tests--usually 93-95) were 83 and 82. So I think there's something to Peter's theory (which he tested on himself).

Liz1959 08-13-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo41 (Post 16556612)
Low-carb eaters tend to have higher than normal fasting blood sugar.

Peter of Hyperlipid noticed this and provided the science for it, and it seems to be similar to a diabetic's Dawn Phenomenon.

LEO, do you have a date, title or link to that discussion? I went to his blog but couldn't find it. Sounds interesting.

E.W. 08-13-2013 12:19 PM

I am not Leo41 but here is one of the little articles. I think he has about 8 of them but this is the first.

Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (2); Dawn Phenomenon

Leo41 08-13-2013 12:58 PM

Thanks E.W.

I read it so long ago, I'd have had to hunt for it.

The fact that my endo was aware of this affirmed it for me.

Liz1959 08-14-2013 07:44 AM

Thanks for the link.

E.W. 08-21-2013 06:15 AM

I may have found something that realy works for me. Say 3 weeks ago if I got up with a fasting BG of 100mg it would rise 20 to 30 mg during the next 2 hours and 15 to 30 min. of light exercise would add another 10 to 15mg. So get up with a fasting bg of 100
hop on the treadmill for 15 min and 2 hours after I get up my BG would be in the 130 to 145 range. Not good. Well 2 weeks ago I started taking 10 to 20 grams of the soluable
fiber intulinFos in devided doses caution it can cause gas. My fasting BG is a few mg lower, my morning BG rise is only 10 to 20 mg instead of 20 to 30 mg and just 15 min. of
exercise now instead of raising my BG seems to just about stop that 10 to 20 mg rise!
The only time I did 30min. of exercise I ended up with a BG that was lower than my fasting BG. I tried other types of fiber and resistant startch ect. nothing else helped me.

IntulinFos may encourage a type of friendly bacteria that is al least in animals associated with weight loss. If you want to read more about this google weight
loss bacterium found.

ibryt 08-23-2013 08:15 AM

According to Diane Kress, author of the Diabetes Miracle diet book, the human liver will automatically dump about 35 mg of glycogen on its own about every 5 hours if you have not eaten. So say you ate something before you went to bed at 10 pm. At about 3 pm your liver does its thing by self feeding the body and dumps about 35 mg of glycogen, which raises blood sugar levels. Then say you get up at 6 am. If you do not eat something by 8 am, the liver self feeds again and up goes blood sugar. Her way of controlling this dawn affect is to eat something within an hour of getting up in the morning. It doesn't have to be a lot. Maybe a cheese stick or something else that is under 5 carbs.....anyway, try that and see if it works. It does for me.

Aomiel 08-28-2013 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibryt (Post 16571370)
Then say you get up at 6 am. If you do not eat something by 8 am, the liver self feeds again and up goes blood sugar. Her way of controlling this dawn affect is to eat something within an hour of getting up in the morning. It doesn't have to be a lot. Maybe a cheese stick or something else that is under 5 carbs.....anyway, try that and see if it works. It does for me.

Interesting, I'm going to try this...maybe with an ounce or so of cheese first thing and see what happens!

ibryt 08-28-2013 07:24 AM

I know it works for me. I have a mozzerlla cheese stick and a half glass of V8 when I get up....then you are supposed to not let more than 5 hours go by without eating some protein or low carb throughout the rest of the day to keep the liver resting...apparently this info comes from the guy that wrote the Fat Switch book. He got his info from studying what happens when bears hibernate. The liver self feeds them from the glycogen they store up. I want to buy his book and learn more about it but its pretty expensive.


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