Step-by-step potato hack for diabetics???

[piratejenny]

I know there are many LONG threads about the PH on this site and around the web...but I'd love to read about diabetics who have had success with it--especially if you felt horrible initially. Could you please share your own story, or point me--as specifically as possible--to where I might read about others' experiences? By "specifically", I mean that if someone says, "Oh there are a couple diabetics doing great over in the Tater Thread on MDA", it is a bit overwhelming to find those 2 diabetics in a 1000-page thread with hundreds of members. So either names or threads/articles/blogs about diabetic PH would be appreciated.

I tried the PH for a day a while back and didn't make it past lunch...I felt severely hypoglycemic and got emotionally distressed just looking at potatoes for several days after! I had to give the rest of the bag to my neighbor!!! But I have heard of diabetics doing this, so I'd like to know more.

This morning I am just about entirely out of perishable food (meat, veggies) and am about to go shopping. If I were to do the hack, today would be a perfect day to start.

So, by step-by-step, I mean, were/are there any "tricks" you did/know of to ease into it/get past the first few days? Like, have "regular" breakfast (I know some [non-diabetic] people have a high-protein breakfast, wait 4 hours, then do the PH the rest of the day)? Or eating frequently? (I think I went 4-5 hours between meals because that is what I usually do. But maybe with potatoes it would be better to eat every 2-3 hours.)

PS: If you're not familiar with the PH, I know it may sound like a dangerous/foolish thing to do.
I'm going to be very careful if I try this again.
But I've come across several people who said their blood sugars normalized on this diet. I just don't think I've encountered anyone who said they felt terrible (as I did) and were able to stick with it. That could be an indication that it's "not for me", or that I need to do something differently.

[ouizoid]

not diabetic PJ, but I have read most of the threads around the web. I can't point you to where I saw it specifically, but there are a number of diabetics who have had gnarly detox/adaptation phases, and have white knuckled it through and found that their BS was better. I remember going, "Wow" and being surprised. I wish I had a specific reference, but at any case it is all N=1, y'know?

I think eat to appetite with potatoes for the first couple of days. If your BS crashes, eat a potato. I think the addition of bone broth is helpful. After 2-3 days you will find your appetite very modified. I wouldn't necessarily think that the detox reaction means it is not for you. I don't think you will harm yourself if you give it a week or so.

[sunday]

Good for you for beginning this thread!

I ran over to Thermogenix (Ray Cronise) and it is a blog with everyone's dialogue underneath in comments. Go to the blog post "No Guts. No Glory" part 2.

Begin reading under this. I believe the guy who has lost all of the weight and is diabetic is Rick, (hopefully, I have the right one) but there are quite a few more that are doing the "starch only" hack through Ray's advice.

I read both Part 1 & 2. Very interesting. Be prepared because this is very lengthy. Ray advises doing the hack for 2 weeks uninterrupted to receive the healing benefits. I really think you should write him! His main schtick is the Cold Therapy, but CT is only one part of his research studies.

•admin says:
June 29, 2012 at 11:13 am

Ok Here’s the trick Ron. By day three your hunger should be completely under control. Continue to drink plenty of water (3-4 L) and then only eat when you’re hungry and don’t feel you have to finish.
This may sound crazy, but I literally steamed 5 lbs of potatoes and just got a few out here and there. Eat only until you aren’t hungry. I tried to not focus on the meal or food too much. More like I wanted to get it done and move on. More like using a public restroom – get it done and move on.

Remember, this is not a “way of life” just a two week experiment. Most will see a significant drop in blood pressure and blood sugar if they started high. If anyone sees good control here where there was a problem, please post. You will also notice a huge satiation effect from these complex starches.
You’ll probably post some great weight loss numbers. You’ll once again be glycogen replete if you’ve been avoiding carbohydrate/starch/sugar. You’re basically flooding the body with glucose, while having just enough protein (yes, complete protein) to remain nitrogen positive.

This will be a place that you can always return to if progress stops. It’s a reset of sorts. I did it originally as a very simple experiment to prove to myself that I wasn’t completely nuts about the protein carb and fat – speak. It’s worked with every person that’s tried it. Simple.

So, if “carbs” were THE problem and potatoes were “carbs” then there should be no way to control blood sugar and lose weight with these alone and yet Rick is now down below 299 (as of yesterday) and had averaged .9 per day for the last 40 days. He’s not not hungry. He has energy and cholesterol, blood sugar and liver enzymes are all in line.
Now, having said that – sugar and fructose (honey, agave, HFCS etc…) are not starches despite being “carbohydrates” by definition of containing a glycosidic linkage. There is a big difference in metabolism.

[sunday]

Key points from Key Tones hack thread...
I could be wrong but I think the gut flora has a lot to do with this healing. I have read this many times and taters have done something miraculous for me personally. I am doing my 3rd hack now. I have been eating taters daily. Never touched them except on very rare occasion prior to going PHD, because I was a strict paleo LC girl.

Bottom line, I lost 12 pounds in two weeks. Then I resumed my normal paleo/primal eating and in the month since, I regained 2 pounds. My weight seems pretty firmly set at 170 now.

Here's where I think the magic lies:
- Potatoes have a really good amino acid (protein) profile, so you aren't wasting muscle as you would eating only cabbage or grapefruits.

•According to studies on the satiety of food, plain potatoes blow away every other food. Google it, potatoes are at the top of every study.

•Eating a huge starch bomb 2-3 times a day spikes insulin, the blood glucose is quickly cleared, and fasting blood glucose ends up lower. Fat burning can only occur in an insulin-depleted state. Eating lots of fat and protein slow the digestive system down with release of pancreatic CCK, eating starch is a fast digestive act--it starts in the mouth and finishes mostly in the stomach. Protein and fat digestion starts in the stomach and finishes in large intestine.

•Eating a plain high GI diet for 1-2 weeks improves gut flora signalling. This is probably the most important thing I said in this answer!
•Losing fat with a potato diet, when done simply, is repeatable, predictable, and painless.

I see myself using the Potato Protocol once or twice a year at most as a means to keep my weight within the narrow band that makes me feel healthiest. If someone wanted to abuse it to become a walking stickman, they could.

[piratejenny]

Originally Posted by ouizoid

it is all N=1, y'know?

I know...I just would like to read other people's stories or know where to go for some support when I am feeling scared or discouraged!


Thanks, Sunday, for the info!

I think I am going to wait another week or two to try it.
For the last 3 months I have been more frustrated than usual with my weight; I've been gaining when the same food/lifestyle had me maintaining or even losing a little previous to December. I blamed it on the holidays/winter darkness for a while, but it's gone on way too long. I've even been wheat-free for a month with no weight loss, but when I did one wheat-free week in December, I lost 5lbs!!! Just realized that my pharmacy gave me a different version of my generic medication in December, and this has wreaked havoc with my weight before (gaining 5-15lb/month), so today I asked them to order the other brand. I don't like to change too many factors at once (supplements, exercise, food), so I will get back on my old med for a week or two and see what happens.

[sunday]

Jenn,
I am just wondering? This is my thought from reading so many differnt type of hacks. What if you just did taters and greens, with very small amount of protein for a trial? I think one reason that it doesn't effect me as harshly as some of the others, is because I introduced the tater slowly over a period before I did the first hack.

posted by Tatertot on PHD~ (I know he is all over the web! )

When I was eating LC Paleo, I only counted carbs. That took starch completely off the table. Now, under PHD guidelines, I include starch every day. I don't think portion sizes and macro ratios are as important as just eating real food, including starch.

At first, I was shooting for 1 pound per day of starch, meat, and fruit/veg. Over the course of 6 weeks, I find some days I eat more/less starch, more/less fruit, more/less meat. My advice to anyone is just to start eating starch (potato, rice, plantain, etc...) and let the amounts come naturally.

Avoidance of the 'Do Not Eat' foods will get you 85% of the way, the last 15% will be determined by following your body's cues toward a diet that includes all the other PHD elements without undereating, overeating, and getting all the proper nutrients.

The Do Not Eat foods for PHD are ~ Grains, Legumes, Vegetable Oils, Sugar

[piratejenny]

I was thinking of something like that, because I bought a HUGE container of arugula today!!!

Like, eggs & broccoli or big salad for breakfast, potatoes for lunch and dinner.
Or maybe just dinner at first, then work up to lunch & dinner, but keep eating breakfast because when I don't, I get insomnia. Although, maybe that would dissipate with the hack. Also, nighttime eating is bothersome for me. I usually have "lunch" around 3-5pm, and get hungry before bed but never "know what I want to eat". Certain things give me acid reflux. And my son usually eats a lot when he comes home from school, then isn't interested in a big dinner. So we snack. If my only choice was potatoes, that would simplify things.

[sunday]

Great plan! I love the little yukon golds. I can eat them plain cold or mashed into mashed taters. Don't understand why the wheat-free isn't working better? I have not been strict about no wheat until the beginning of Jan.

Here is another excellent idea... maybe try the Mini McDougall?

McDougall Newsletter June 2006 Mary's Mini-McD Diet

I don't think I could eat that much fruit, but lean greens for sure!

[sunday]

I will always be very sparing with fruit. Jaminet recommends treating as a dessert, sparingly and not with every meal.

[piratejenny]

No prob; I basically don't eat fruit at all.
I grew up in Costa Rica where the fruit was SO amazing!!! that fruit in the US has been very disappointing ever since! Especially grocery-store-fruit...I'll occasionally eat berries if they were picked like 2 minutes ago.

[sunday]

Originally Posted by piratejenny

No prob; I basically don't eat fruit at all.
I grew up in Costa Rica where the fruit was SO amazing!!! that fruit in the US has been very disappointing ever since! Especially grocery-store-fruit...I'll occasionally eat berries if they were picked like 2 minutes ago.

Costa Rica is on my bucket list. I can't even imagine how beautiful.
I am crazy about blueberries, lemon, lime, and coconut. I try to use this sparingly, but I am not going to sweat if I go over.

[piratejenny]

oh, shoot, do limes count as fruit?!
i just think of them as "sour"!
well, i prob only have 1/2 per day.

[piratejenny]

from the mcdougall site:

High protein diets are popular in part because they are easy to learn and follow: Buy a burger anywhere—throw away the bun, scrape off the ketchup and you are now on a diet that gives immediate weight loss. The working mechanism for this diet is to make you sick by feeding you an unbalanced diet solely of fat and protein, causing fluid loss and appetite suppression.

omg, srsly?!!!

[sunday]

Yes, I eye rolled too. McDougall is strictly plant based, isn't it?

Although, I have lowered my protein in trying to keep the PHD 65/25/10 and noticed that it is working out better for me. I still get about 55 gr from protein, but not much more.

[sunday]

Ya know? Maybe limes don't count. I have always counted but maybe they don't because they are citrus. You have the same tastebuds I have.

[sunday]

Jenn,
One last thought for you.

I hope that you can do this tater hack or a similar RS hack and more importantly, I hope that this leads to healing for your diabetes.

I posted this link over in the other tater thread, but wanted to point out the part that deals with Insulin & Glucose metabolism.

Resistant starch and insulin and glucose metabolism

Insulin is a hormone that enables glucose uptake by muscle and adipose cells, thereby lowering blood glucose levels. It also inhibits the use of stored body fat and together with an array of other physiological signals can modulate appetite and satiety signals. RS-rich foods release glucose slowly and therefore one would expect this to result in a lowered insulin response, greater access to and use of stored fat and, potentially, a muted generation of hunger signals. Not only would these conditions help in the management of clinical conditions, such as diabetes and impaired glucose tolerance, but also possibly in the treatment of obesity and in weight management.

There have been a number of studies examining the effects of various forms and doses of RS on glucose (glycaemic) and insulin (insulinaemic) responses. Most studies in humans have focused on postprandial glycaemic and/or insulinaemic responses and have varied in quality (see below). There is a lack of consensus regarding the precise effects of RS on insulin and glucose responses: 15 studies have reported an improvement in these measures following the consumption of a RS-rich test-meal, while 10 have showed no, or a physiologically irrelevant effect. It is noteworthy that, to date, there are no reports of RS worsening insulin and glucose responses. In general, positive effects were usually observed shortly (i.e. within the first 2–8 h) after the high RS-meal (Higgins 2004). It would also appear that RS consumption may confer a small decrease in postprandial glycaemia, but is associated with more physiologically significant reductions in postprandial insulinaemia. From these studies it was concluded that RS must contribute at least 14% of total starch intake in order to confer any benefits to glycaemic or insulinaemic responses (Behall & Hallfrisch 2002; Brown et al. 2003; Higgins 2004). Table 8 lists the studies analysed.

I hope that you are able to access this link. I work for a University and sometimes I can see links that others can't.

Health properties of resistant starch - Nugent - 2005 - Nutrition Bulletin - Wiley Online Library

[piratejenny]

Yay! I can see it but :yawn: I'll have to save it for tomorrow. Thank you!

[piratejenny]

Holy schmoly!!! Bad blood sugar readings!!!

All right, I know there's probably an "adjustment period" or something, but...

9:15pm (no food since 5pm): 89
9:45: approx 6oz potatoes + 1 cup homemade beef broth
10:30: 173
11:50: 123
(went to sleep around 12:30, had nightmares, woke up 6am)
6:30: 131 <--I've been having much lower FBGs lately
7:30 (no food yet, just water): 177
(I haven't seen a morning number that high in the 2 years I've been testing!!!)

For comparison, a couple days ago I woke up w/102 and and an hour later (no food, just water) it only went up to 117.

This is why I'm looking for more detailed info on what other diabetics went through on the potato hack...maybe everybody goes through this the first couple days; maybe this is terrible...I have no clue. I was prepared for a spike after eating the potatoes, but surprised that my blood sugar was CRAZY 10 hours later.

[sunday]

Uggh, I believe you are one of the folks that needs to slowly add taters in small portions to each meal for a good time before experiementing with the hack. I remember you said rice doesn't wreak havoc with your bs? I wonder if you may need to switch to rice w/ greens as Jean did on that blog of hypothermic? I am still researching, but have so little time right now. If I find anything else out, I will come back and post.

[piratejenny]

I'm doing an experiment with white sugar this morning, because I recently bought coconut sugar and tagatose, and I want to compare how they affect my blood sugar.

This got me thinking about The Shangri-La Diet (flavorless calories), and wondering if the sugar-water option might work similarly to the potato hack/insulin spike thing.

Originally Posted by sunday

Uggh, I believe you are one of the folks that needs to slowly add taters in small portions to each meal for a good time before experiementing with the hack. I remember you said rice doesn't wreak havoc with your bs? I wonder if you may need to switch to rice w/ greens as Jean did on that blog of hypothermic? I am still researching, but have so little time right now. If I find anything else out, I will come back and post.

The potatoes also affected my tummy...last night (24 hours later) and this morning (36 hours later). A *lot* of gas, a *lot* of pain. I usually have this trouble with prebiotics...inulin, Jerusalem artichokes, whatever they put in Chocoperfection. Odd that potatoes with fat don't affect our stomachs this way?!

I don't know if I've ever really tested how rice on its own affects me...I usually eat it with beans & eggs or meat, or with curry.

Rice with greens sounds good, though!

Thanks for taking time to help when you're so busy!!!

[sunday]

Popping in to post something I read on PHD from tatertot. I am going to see if I can flag him to come visit this thread. He is eating plaintains for RS.
Very interesting.

Author: tatertot
Comment:
And how were they? Pretty good, huh? I have been eating a handful (about 1/4 - 1/3 of a plantain) every morning for several weeks as my breakfast. I can't say they are a 'magic bullet' but the effects of RS have been very well studied. The main effect is on colon health, but there are also shown benefits in lipid/glucose regulation, hunger, nutrient absorption, and weight loss.

This paper Health properties of resistant starch - Nugent - 2005 - Nutrition Bulletin - Wiley Online Library discusses just about all of the studies done and gives results (good and bad) so it's not a one-sided industry project. A few select lines:

- It is noteworthy that, to date, there are no reports of RS worsening insulin and glucose responses.

- RS-rich foods release glucose slowly and therefore one would expect this to result in a lowered insulin response, greater access to and use of stored fat and, potentially, a muted generation of hunger signals.

- It is likely that RS mediates some or all of its effects through the action of SCFA but interest is increasing regarding its prebiotic effects.

- More recently RS has been reported to influence immune function, particularly the production of a number of pro-inflammatory cytokines (e.g. tumour necrosis factor alpha) and the expression of a number of receptors...

[piratejenny]

Yeah, I've been wondering why people eat green bananas--have they never heard of plantains?

I'm just taking spoonfuls of resistant starch at night.
Really helps me sleep. I don't know if I mentioned it on this thread, but I usually have nightmares and wake up every night feeling terrified, like I got thrown off a building. Since taking the RS, I don't have nightmares and if I do wake up, I feel very calm and my heart's not pounding or anything.