some research on "dawn syndrome"

cfine · 05-17-2012, 04:18 PM

Thanks to everybody who posted on my last thread. As a result of that, I started doing a little research on my own about the dawn syndrome and it sounds exactly like what's going on with me.

I don't have any problems during the day with my BG spiking. When I go to bed it's fine and when I wake up it's not.

Anyway, I found out it could be the result of a sluggish liver. I am going to take milk thistle tonight and see if that helps. I actually took 250 mg of metformin last night and my BG was 113 this AM. UGH! I'm trying to do the least amount of medication without compromising my health.

I'm really hoping that this will work. If not, I can add it a couple of other supplements for my liver before going back on the metformin.

Wish me luck. I will keep ya'll posted as it could possibly help others.

piratejenny · 05-17-2012, 06:21 PM

Thanks! I bought a *pound* of milk thistle powder recently (my liver enzymes have been elevated for years), but haven't gotten into the habit of taking it yet. If it could help with dp, that would be extra motivation to take it!

cfine · 05-18-2012, 12:08 PM

I took the milk thistle last night, and my fasting BG this AM was 98. That's the first time it's been under 100 in about two weeks.

I am adding in NAC too see if that gets it lower. I took it in the middle of the day between meals, and then I am going to take the milk thistle tonight again. I will report in on my numbers tomorrow.

piratejenny · 05-18-2012, 12:12 PM

Nice! How much milk thistle did you take?

cfine · 05-18-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Nice! How much milk thistle did you take?

600 mg

I took the NAC today, so I decided to just hold off on the milk thistle. I had read somewhere(can't remember where)online that this person who was trying this with success actually cycled through several known liver supplements. That's what I'm going to try.

I'm so hopeful that this is what I need. Plus, I'm trying to really cut down on the AS.

piratejenny · 05-18-2012, 10:28 PM

What is NAC?

cfine · 05-19-2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

What is NAC?

N-acetyl-L-cycteine. When I went it to the health food store, I asked them for NAC and that's also what's on the front of the bottle. It promotes glutathione synthesis in the liver.

I didn't take the milk thistle last night, and my BG was 100 this AM. I am going to take it tonight. Hopefully I will see lower numbers in the morning. I will still take the NAC this afternoon.

cfine · 05-20-2012, 05:26 AM

I woke up this AM to a BG of 92. I am so excited. I took the NAC in the middle of afternoon, and then I took the milk thistle right before bed.

I also did an experiment yesterday. I purposely ate AS because I have been thinking that it could be the cause of my problem. The milk thistle took care of it!! I am so happy right now. I have been feeling for a while now that my liver is not functioning at it's best. I had no idea though that it could mess with blood glucose levels.

I am so glad I found out this information. I will keep you updated and let you know how it's going next week.

piratejenny · 05-20-2012, 04:40 PM

Thank you for the updates....please keep them coming!

cfine · 05-21-2012, 04:56 AM

Monday

BG-106 BOO!!

I am going to give this until next week when I go to a doctor's visit. I will keep taking the NAC and milk thistle until then. If I can't get it down I will add the metformin.

piratejenny · 05-21-2012, 06:01 AM

106 really isn't bad. I know you were excited about numbers under 100, but the fluctuation could be due to your meter, how much water you've drunk, vitamin C, monthly hormones if you're a lady...a lot of things!

When I add a supplement or make some other change, I take my fbg for a week and average it (before making any other change). Sometimes one or two of the readings will be discouraging but it's easier to see a pattern with the average.

Btw, I'm pretty anti-meds but I love my metformin. I used to have strange pains in my arms; gone. My hands & feet used to swell almost every day; no more. I used to have to pee every 45-60 minutes; now I can go 4-5 hours without needing a bathroom!

I worked my way up to 1500 mg/day but it upset my stomach, so now I take 750. My bg's a little higher but the other benefits are still happening.

cfine · 05-21-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

106 really isn't bad. I know you were excited about numbers under 100, but the fluctuation could be due to your meter, how much water you've drunk, vitamin C, monthly hormones if you're a lady...a lot of things!

The problem I'm having is that they are consistently like this and I have used two different meters to make sure that it is correct. I don't take vitamin c and I had a hysterectomy and I take the same amount of horomones daily so I don't usually have those problems. My last doctor wanted me on metformin years ago to try and help me lose weight. I don't know why I was so scared of it. Now that my BG is proving to be a problem, I am ready and willing to take it. It might even help me to lose weight easier.

Cablegriz · 05-22-2012, 05:05 AM

After reading this thread, I bought some Milk Thistle yesterday and took 250mg tablet before bed. BS was 116 this morning

cfine · 05-22-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

After reading this thread, I bought some Milk Thistle yesterday and took 250mg tablet before bed. BS was 116 this morning

I'm not having as much success as I was hoping either. I think that we need to get it a little more time though. I know my liver can use a little help anyway because I've had my gallbladder out so I figure it can't hurt.

I can't check my BG again until I get back home on Sat because I don't have my meter with me. I may go and buy one though

Cablegriz · 05-22-2012, 08:46 PM

I'm going to still try also.

cfine · 05-23-2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

I'm going to still try also.

I forgot to say also that I am taking 600mg at bedtime.

ChristiansMom · 05-30-2012, 01:38 PM

What are the side effects of metformin?

My blood sugars are good during the day but every morning they are REALLY high. Granted, I've been in denial about my diabetes and have recently started getting things back on track but my morning readings always seem to be higher than they should be. I do not want to take medication if I don't have to so I'm trying to figure out how to get that morning number down where it should be. I think I'm going to swing by the store and buy some milk thistle and see if it helps at all.

I understand why DS happens but I need to figure out how to fix it without waking up at 3am to eat something healthy.

piratejenny · 05-30-2012, 02:48 PM

I have experienced GI discomfort from Metformin, but it's under control now.
I've also heard that it can lead to a B12 deficiency.
Honestly, if you Google "metformin side effects" you can get a lot of info.

I wanted to mention that if any of you really want to give milk thistle a chance, you can get it by the pound; either the seed (for sprouting, or making tea), or powdered seed. I got a pound of the powder for $12.

I've been taking a teaspoon (5g...that would be many, many pills!!!) at night. I put it in 1/2 cup of hot water, with cinnamon, sf maple syrup, and a splash of cream; it tastes quite a bit like oatmeal!

Milk thistle tea is very mild, almost flavorless, and is good mixed with other teas (like chamomile).

CM, if you really don't want to take metformin (although I think it's less scary/damaging than a lot of other meds out there), there is a supplement called d-chiro-inositol that has very similar effects. It's an extract of the carob plant. In addition to its benefits for diabetes, some women use it (instead of metformin) for PCOS; Dr Bernstein (

my diabetes guru) recommends it in his book. However, metformin is much much cheaper!!!

A couple months of months ago, a friend of mine lent me a Life Extension Foundation (LEF) magazine. It had a very interesting article about green coffee bean extract (GCBE); in addition to (supposedly) reducing after-meal BG spikes, it suppresses gluconeogenesis, so I ordered some. However, I hadn't been taking it very regularly. Recently there's been some buzz about GCBE because Dr Oz mentioned it on his show, so yesterday I started taking it as described in the study--800mg 2x/day. I'll keep you updated.

This morning I woke up early and took 800mg. I ended up falling back asleep for a couple hours, and when I checked my BG it was only 112--it is usually anywhere from 125-160. This particular meter tends to measure 15-20 points high, so my BG might have actually been under 100! That's awesome for me!!!

I was concerned that the caffeine in GBCE might keep me awake (I have troubles with insomnia), but, as I said, I fell asleep this morning after taking it. So I might try taking a dose the middle of the night (3am, or whenever I wake up to pee

) and see if that helps without messing up my sleep.

PS--I can't post the link for LEF website, but if you Google "life extension foundation green coffee bean", it shows up right on top.

cfine · 05-30-2012, 03:40 PM

My numbers are always high in the morning too. I am anxious to go to the doctor tomorrow to talk about it and see what she suggests. I took one metformin(500mg)last night and I woke up at 4:30 with diarrhea. I had it all morning long so I don't know what to do.

ChristiansMom · 05-30-2012, 09:56 PM

Jenny thank you for the information. I will google those suggestions.

I was reading some other threads about ACV helping as well so I decided to give that a try tonight - blech! That stuff tastes like crap! I mixed 2 Tbsp with a cup of water and a whole bunch of Sweet Tea Mio - put the straw as far back on my tongue as I could and sucked it up as fast as possible. I also took 2 cinnamon pills. Let's see if it makes a difference tomorrow. I will keep doing this for a couple of weeks because I know it sometimes takes time for things to make a difference. If that doesn't help a bit then I will move on to the milk thistle. I would love to be able to get this under control without doctor prescribed meds.

cfine · 05-31-2012, 04:52 AM

Quote:

I would love to be able to get this under control without doctor prescribed meds

Me too, but since reading Dr. Bernstein's book, I am more concerned about not burning my pancreas out. Keep us posted on your progress.

ChristiansMom · 05-31-2012, 10:11 AM

Ok so maybe this will work - I'm a skeptic so I will keep doing what I did last night for a few weeks to really see how it changes my BS readings in the morning.

I have been in denial about my diabetes so for a good year I pretty much ate what I wanted with a slight lean towards LC because that's what I "know". When I decided to get back on track my BS in the afternoon was around 220 and my morning reading was even higher.. about 250 or so. I've been eating good for the past month and my afternoon readings have been around 160 and but my morning has been about 220. I'm working hard to get them both down and I will be happy if I can get them both between 100-125.

After doing that little ACV/Cinnamon thing last night, this morning my fasting reading was 182 so it dropped by about 40. I'm going to keep eating right and drinking this mixture - will keep you posted.

cfine · 05-31-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Ok so maybe this will work - I'm a skeptic so I will keep doing what I did last night for a few weeks to really see how it changes my BS readings in the morning.

I have been in denial about my diabetes so for a good year I pretty much ate what I wanted with a slight lean towards LC because that's what I "know". When I decided to get back on track my BS in the afternoon was around 220 and my morning reading was even higher.. about 250 or so. I've been eating good for the past month and my afternoon readings have been around 160 and but my morning has been about 220. I'm working hard to get them both down and I will be happy if I can get them both between 100-125.

After doing that little ACV/Cinnamon thing last night, this morning my fasting reading was 182 so it dropped by about 40. I'm going to keep eating right and drinking this mixture - will keep you posted.
__________________
Never dim your light for others,

Those numbers are pretty high. If it were myself, I would be getting to the doctor ASAP. That's nothing to mess with. Keep us posted.

ChristiansMom · 05-31-2012, 09:45 PM

I know it is high but when I originally was diagnosed, my reading was 126 and the nurse acted like it wasn't anything to be so concerned about (I was tearing up a bit) - she told me she has had people come in with numbers in the 300-500 range and that as long as I shoot to stay below 130, then I would be fine. I don't feel bad at all - I actually feel pretty awesome since I've been eating right. I know the numbers will come down, they have before - I just need to make it stick and my AM fasting number is the one that had me concerned. If they don't come down in the next 2 weeks then I will schedule to see the doctor. Thank you for the concern though!

05-17-2012, 04:18 PM	#1
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,448 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	some research on "dawn syndrome" Thanks to everybody who posted on my last thread. As a result of that, I started doing a little research on my own about the dawn syndrome and it sounds exactly like what's going on with me. I don't have any problems during the day with my BG spiking. When I go to bed it's fine and when I wake up it's not. Anyway, I found out it could be the result of a sluggish liver. I am going to take milk thistle tonight and see if that helps. I actually took 250 mg of metformin last night and my BG was 113 this AM. UGH! I'm trying to do the least amount of medication without compromising my health. I'm really hoping that this will work. If not, I can add it a couple of other supplements for my liver before going back on the metformin. Wish me luck. I will keep ya'll posted as it could possibly help others.

05-21-2012, 06:01 AM	#11
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	106 really isn't bad. I know you were excited about numbers under 100, but the fluctuation could be due to your meter, how much water you've drunk, vitamin C, monthly hormones if you're a lady...a lot of things! When I add a supplement or make some other change, I take my fbg for a week and average it (before making any other change). Sometimes one or two of the readings will be discouraging but it's easier to see a pattern with the average. Btw, I'm pretty anti-meds but I love my metformin. I used to have strange pains in my arms; gone. My hands & feet used to swell almost every day; no more. I used to have to pee every 45-60 minutes; now I can go 4-5 hours without needing a bathroom! I worked my way up to 1500 mg/day but it upset my stomach, so now I take 750. My bg's a little higher but the other benefits are still happening. __________________ "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast." --Ace Rimmer "Really, how is eating a piece of cake bad? Being bad is murdering someone. That's bad. Don't do that." --Sarah Michelle Gellar **************************************** Last edited by piratejenny; 05-21-2012 at 06:17 AM..

05-30-2012, 01:38 PM	#17
ChristiansMom Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 17,132 Gallery: ChristiansMom Stats: :( :\| :)	What are the side effects of metformin? My blood sugars are good during the day but every morning they are REALLY high. Granted, I've been in denial about my diabetes and have recently started getting things back on track but my morning readings always seem to be higher than they should be. I do not want to take medication if I don't have to so I'm trying to figure out how to get that morning number down where it should be. I think I'm going to swing by the store and buy some milk thistle and see if it helps at all. I understand why DS happens but I need to figure out how to fix it without waking up at 3am to eat something healthy. __________________ Never dim your light for others, shine as bright as you can so they too may be interested in the origin of your Light. Matthew 5:14-16 376...366...356...346...336...326...316...306 296...286...276...266...256...246...236...226 216...206...196...186...176...166...156...146

05-30-2012, 02:48 PM	#18
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	I have experienced GI discomfort from Metformin, but it's under control now. I've also heard that it can lead to a B12 deficiency. Honestly, if you Google "metformin side effects" you can get a lot of info. I wanted to mention that if any of you really want to give milk thistle a chance, you can get it by the pound; either the seed (for sprouting, or making tea), or powdered seed. I got a pound of the powder for $12. I've been taking a teaspoon (5g...that would be many, many pills!!!) at night. I put it in 1/2 cup of hot water, with cinnamon, sf maple syrup, and a splash of cream; it tastes quite a bit like oatmeal! Milk thistle tea is very mild, almost flavorless, and is good mixed with other teas (like chamomile). CM, if you really don't want to take metformin (although I think it's less scary/damaging than a lot of other meds out there), there is a supplement called d-chiro-inositol that has very similar effects. It's an extract of the carob plant. In addition to its benefits for diabetes, some women use it (instead of metformin) for PCOS; Dr Bernstein (my diabetes guru) recommends it in his book. However, metformin is much much cheaper!!! A couple months of months ago, a friend of mine lent me a Life Extension Foundation (LEF) magazine. It had a very interesting article about green coffee bean extract (GCBE); in addition to (supposedly) reducing after-meal BG spikes, it suppresses gluconeogenesis, so I ordered some. However, I hadn't been taking it very regularly. Recently there's been some buzz about GCBE because Dr Oz mentioned it on his show, so yesterday I started taking it as described in the study--800mg 2x/day. I'll keep you updated. This morning I woke up early and took 800mg. I ended up falling back asleep for a couple hours, and when I checked my BG it was only 112--it is usually anywhere from 125-160. This particular meter tends to measure 15-20 points high, so my BG might have actually been under 100! That's awesome for me!!! I was concerned that the caffeine in GBCE might keep me awake (I have troubles with insomnia), but, as I said, I fell asleep this morning after taking it. So I might try taking a dose the middle of the night (3am, or whenever I wake up to pee ) and see if that helps without messing up my sleep. PS--I can't post the link for LEF website, but if you Google "life extension foundation green coffee bean", it shows up right on top. Last edited by piratejenny; 05-30-2012 at 02:53 PM.. Reason: PS

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05-17-2012, 06:21 PM	#2
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	Thanks! I bought a pound of milk thistle powder recently (my liver enzymes have been elevated for years), but haven't gotten into the habit of taking it yet. If it could help with dp, that would be extra motivation to take it!

05-18-2012, 12:08 PM	#3
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,448 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	I took the milk thistle last night, and my fasting BG this AM was 98. That's the first time it's been under 100 in about two weeks. I am adding in NAC too see if that gets it lower. I took it in the middle of the day between meals, and then I am going to take the milk thistle tonight again. I will report in on my numbers tomorrow.

05-18-2012, 12:12 PM	#4
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	Nice! How much milk thistle did you take?

05-18-2012, 10:28 PM	#6
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	What is NAC?

05-20-2012, 05:26 AM	#8
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,448 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	I woke up this AM to a BG of 92. I am so excited. I took the NAC in the middle of afternoon, and then I took the milk thistle right before bed. I also did an experiment yesterday. I purposely ate AS because I have been thinking that it could be the cause of my problem. The milk thistle took care of it!! I am so happy right now. I have been feeling for a while now that my liver is not functioning at it's best. I had no idea though that it could mess with blood glucose levels. I am so glad I found out this information. I will keep you updated and let you know how it's going next week.

05-20-2012, 04:40 PM	#9
piratejenny Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,689 Gallery: piratejenny Stats: 293/285/<160 (5'7") WOE: LC/JUDDD/Fast5/Diabetes Miracle 2010-12 Start Date: 2013: IDK!	Thank you for the updates....please keep them coming!

05-21-2012, 04:56 AM	#10
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,448 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	Monday BG-106 BOO!! I am going to give this until next week when I go to a doctor's visit. I will keep taking the NAC and milk thistle until then. If I can't get it down I will add the metformin.

05-22-2012, 05:05 AM	#13
Cablegriz Senior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Wernersville, PA Posts: 921 Gallery: Cablegriz Stats: 218/178/200/140 WOE: LC, Insulin Resistant on Metformin HCL 2000mg Start Date: April 23, 2010 a restart for my health	After reading this thread, I bought some Milk Thistle yesterday and took 250mg tablet before bed. BS was 116 this morning

05-22-2012, 08:46 PM	#15
Cablegriz Senior LCF Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Wernersville, PA Posts: 921 Gallery: Cablegriz Stats: 218/178/200/140 WOE: LC, Insulin Resistant on Metformin HCL 2000mg Start Date: April 23, 2010 a restart for my health	I'm going to still try also.

05-30-2012, 03:40 PM	#19
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,448 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	My numbers are always high in the morning too. I am anxious to go to the doctor tomorrow to talk about it and see what she suggests. I took one metformin(500mg)last night and I woke up at 4:30 with diarrhea. I had it all morning long so I don't know what to do.

05-30-2012, 09:56 PM	#20
ChristiansMom Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 17,132 Gallery: ChristiansMom Stats: :( :\| :)	Jenny thank you for the information. I will google those suggestions. I was reading some other threads about ACV helping as well so I decided to give that a try tonight - blech! That stuff tastes like crap! I mixed 2 Tbsp with a cup of water and a whole bunch of Sweet Tea Mio - put the straw as far back on my tongue as I could and sucked it up as fast as possible. I also took 2 cinnamon pills. Let's see if it makes a difference tomorrow. I will keep doing this for a couple of weeks because I know it sometimes takes time for things to make a difference. If that doesn't help a bit then I will move on to the milk thistle. I would love to be able to get this under control without doctor prescribed meds.

05-31-2012, 10:11 AM	#22
ChristiansMom Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 17,132 Gallery: ChristiansMom Stats: :( :\| :)	Ok so maybe this will work - I'm a skeptic so I will keep doing what I did last night for a few weeks to really see how it changes my BS readings in the morning. I have been in denial about my diabetes so for a good year I pretty much ate what I wanted with a slight lean towards LC because that's what I "know". When I decided to get back on track my BS in the afternoon was around 220 and my morning reading was even higher.. about 250 or so. I've been eating good for the past month and my afternoon readings have been around 160 and but my morning has been about 220. I'm working hard to get them both down and I will be happy if I can get them both between 100-125. After doing that little ACV/Cinnamon thing last night, this morning my fasting reading was 182 so it dropped by about 40. I'm going to keep eating right and drinking this mixture - will keep you posted.

05-31-2012, 09:45 PM	#24
ChristiansMom Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 17,132 Gallery: ChristiansMom Stats: :( :\| :)	I know it is high but when I originally was diagnosed, my reading was 126 and the nurse acted like it wasn't anything to be so concerned about (I was tearing up a bit) - she told me she has had people come in with numbers in the 300-500 range and that as long as I shoot to stay below 130, then I would be fine. I don't feel bad at all - I actually feel pretty awesome since I've been eating right. I know the numbers will come down, they have before - I just need to make it stick and my AM fasting number is the one that had me concerned. If they don't come down in the next 2 weeks then I will schedule to see the doctor. Thank you for the concern though!