Metformin for weight loss? Diabetic experts? My VENT!!

[Karsen]

Anyone heard of taking Metformin(diabetic drug) for weight loss aid? And NOT being a diabetic? I have been trying again to do LC. (did it 3 years ago with success) then got off & regained... Now this time it will NOT come off...
My DH has lost 30 lbs & me - - the scales just go up one down one - up one down one....so discouraging. .
Saw a Dr. & he did mention a diabetic drug. . He mentioned Byetta - - (injection) but a friend of mine that went to him - - is taking Metformin.. She's not diabetic (but it is in her family) The weight has been falling off her. I know another person who went to a different Dr. & is Pre- diabetic and was put on Metformin - She started losing wt and wouldn't tell me how - - till last wk - - Said she was on the diabetic drug - - & doing the diabetic diet (eating every 2 hours) She said - " I'm eating from every food group and the weight is falling off me"...... We use to weigh the same - - now she is dropping the weight.... I was so depressed after seeing her - I stopped by the grocery - bought a huge supply of sweets & carbs and have been off my L C for the first time in 7 weeks. . Now why did I do that??? I've been on a big binge since Sunday (today is Tues>) I ate so many sweets tonight I just crashed asleep afterwards... Alot of Sweets do that to me. I don't know what that means - - If I am pre- diabetic or not - but alot just almost put me in a semi-coma feeling! So tired & sleepy. I did feel much better OFF the sugar - EXCEPT I WAS constantly craving something sweet and looking for something to replace it - like sugar free jello, sugar free whip cream, peanut butter, anything I could get my hands on. . . what do you think??

[KrystaLyn]

First off, Metformin is NOT a weight loss drug. It is an insulin lowering DRUG. Why would you want to mess with it if you don't have insulin issues? The side effects are NOT FUN. I was sick for a good 3 months when I started Met (I have insulin resistance due to PCOS). Vomiting and nausea and diarrhea. Is it worth it just to drop a few pounds? And was it a wonder weight loss drug? I lost maybe 5-8 lbs from the Met. The rest? Lots of hard work through diet and exercise.

I have to say, I am shocked that a Dr. would perscribe it to someone somply for weight loss. Not a Dr I would go see, that's for sure! That just seems totally irresponsible to me. Relying on ANY kind of drugs as some magic cure for weight loss is failure waiting to happen. It doesn't work. Never has, never will. What DOES work is committing to a lifestyle change through diet and exercise.

[watcher513]

I'm no diabetic expert or doctor but my DH was dx'd Type II diabetes the end of 12/06. It's been a learning experience for sure. Never heard of Metformin used for weight loss. However, re: your friend, my bet is she's losing because of the way she's eating. Eating every 3 hours or so keeps your blood sugars stabalized and you body won't go into starvation mode (from not eating). This is for Everyone. Example: last year my doc said, "suggested" I eat 5-6 meals a day; breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, snack, every 3 or so hours. I thought yeah, right - I always hated breakfast first thing in the morning. Well about the end of Sept. I gave it a shot and was amazed. (also started walking 1/2-1 mi/day - he wanted 30 min/day, and now up to 2 mi. or so 5/7 days- split up times). In a few months I was down 20 lbs or so. I switched from white bread (which I only ate sometimes), to whole wheat all the time, whole wheat english muffins, brown rice vs. white rice, whole wheat pasta vs. white etc. (once in awhile sour dough which is not quite as carby as white). I didn't particularly like the brown rice at first then started cooking it in chicken or vegetable broth instead of water - Much better that way. Started counting carbs (or just watching it a lot more/being "aware", but not super strict). I'm a tea drinker at night so decaf. green tea which I like better than regular. It has a "softer" taste, or not as harsh as regular green tea to me. Just eating healthier. Another trick is to have 2/3 of your plate (switch to a 9" plate) veggies and salad (and not starchy ones) and a 1/3 protein 3-4 oz.. And........WATER. If you're not a big water drinker (I sure wasn't), try 1/2 cup every 30 min. That amount is so much easier to drink than 8 oz. at once.

Some of my snacks are an apple and piece of string cheese, natural peanut butter on celery, hummus on celery or a few pita chips. Probably my favorite is lowfat (not non-fat - more calories/carbs in non-fat) vanilla yogurt with 1-2 T. granola and frozen/thawed berries. Sometimes for dessert I'll have key lime lowfat yogurt. To me, the key lime with a little cottage cheese mixed in reminds me of the lime jello salad. My doc said that a snack should be a little carb and some protein. Evidently anytime you have some carbs, have some protein and it helps counteract it (somehow).

It wasn't as difficult as I thought but I found it was almost hard to eat that much. It made me really cut down how much I eat for the main meals. Another trick (from You, On A Diet) is, if you're not nut sensitive, 6 raw walnuts, 10 raw almonds or 20 peanuts 30 min. before a meal. Somehow it works so you don't stuff yourself at a meal. It works! Takes the edge off of your appetite.

Try the frequent meals thing, you'll be surprised I think.

[rockfordVicki]

I have had experience with metformin. First time I was given it was for pcos and many women with pcos also have insulin resistance. My insulin was 3xs the normal though my glucose was always normal. Having to much insulin causes weight gain is some and also increased hunger. It did for me. Taking Metformin did allow me to lose weight easier because it lowered my insulin. I had a doctor take me off Metformin because I had a hysterectomy and he no longer treated me for Pcos which was a mistake because now my glucose is getting higher and I have developed diabetes. So I am back on Metformin.
Many doctors do not check insulin levels only glucose. The main symptom that I always noticed when I stopped taking Metformin was I would get brown patches on the back of my neck and underarms.
I don't think Metformin works for weight loss unless the insulin is too high.
Im not an expert just sharing my experience.
Have a Great Night
Vicki

[Karsen]

Thanks Vickie & Watcher - Your replies were very courteous & sympathatic to what I was saying and asking unlike the other poster. I appreciate your little tips Vicke. We can all use all the "tips" we can get!

[KrystaLyn]

Just telling it like it is...

[rockfordVicki]

Your very welcome.

Vicki

[Silver Spice]

Search the web for this subject and you will see that many doctors are prescribing Metformin *glucophage* for weight loss.

I take a medication that is not for depression OR weight loss but it helps with the symptoms of both conditions.

[Karsen]

Thank you Silver Spice.....

[dreamerdee]

That thing you mentioned about getting sleepy/tired after a sugar binge is your blood sugar going higher. I experienced that before I was diagnosed. I was doing the whole low fat thing and any time I was having trouble sleeping I'd have some dry cheerios, and then I'd get drowsy. I realize now I was using carbs as a drug! Since being diagnosed and getting a blood sugar meter, I can test and I have noticed that when I start feeling drowsy it is usually because my blood sugar level is elevated at that time. Never happens anymore since lowcarbing (thank you Dr. Atkins). I am thinking you may be more diabetic than you think. If so, the sooner you know and decide to take care, the better outcome you can have. Maybe next time you speak with your doctor mention the sleepiness that comes after eating sweets.

[Silver Spice]

See, I get sleepy only when my blood glucose is too low. That's why its a good idea to keep track of it.

Eat
test in 90 minutes
levels should be between 100 and 160

I have a very high sensitivity to insulin, but do not show high readings of glucose. Although I am diabetic, I am a reactive hypoglycemic so I can pass out very easily with glucose in the lower end of the "normal" ranges.

Many people have to try to keep their glucose below 100, and I have to struggle to keep mine above 85. I black out at 83, totally unresponsive, going by ambulance to the ER, etc. It's scarey.

Lowcarb actually makes my condition worse, as does high carb. I have to keep it balanced and make sure I eat moderate protein w/ moderate carbs every 2 hours. (slice of cheese, 1/2 an apple, etc) Makes weight loss a very very difficult thing. Thats why I could not take Metformin, because although its not supposed to cause hypoglycemic episodes, it did cause them for me.

[Karsen]

Thanks for the replies. Well, I called & ask the Dr. to do a "A1C" (I think that's what it was) blood test on me. That's what my friend said I should do. She said she had read where many people just have to diagnose theirselves..... I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with me - SINCE I CAN NOT LOSE WEIGHT!!! For 8 Wks I did Low Carb - was eating very little - - the last month I have done water excercise - (I had been pretty mobile prior due to back problems & the heat outside) - - I've "moved" more than EVER lately - - What have I lost?? It was about 8 lbs in that 8 wks - (fluid)) - but since last wkend and the sweet binge - - I am now still UP almost 5 lbs that WILL NOT COME OFF!!!! (cheated only 4 days of sweets) and now these lbs have packed - the last two of NO Cheats, excercise - - and NOTHING has changed on the scales!!!!! Something has to be wrong!!!!
Course all this does is get me depressed and make me want to go get something gooey sweet.....I know it is just a temporary feel good at the moment - then feel tired and out of it afterwards.....
I just hope someone can figure out what is going on. I know it has something to do with sugar.

SILVER SPICE SAID---------------------------------------------------------------
I have a very high sensitivity to insulin, but do not show high readings of glucose. Although I am diabetic, I am a reactive hypoglycemic so I can pass out very easily with glucose in the lower end of the "normal" ranges.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***SILVER SPICE - What did you have to do to find out - you have the high sensitivity to insulin and reactive hypoglycemic??

[Karsen]

Originally Posted by dreamerdee

That thing you mentioned about getting sleepy/tired after a sugar binge is your blood sugar going higher. I experienced that before I was diagnosed. I was doing the whole low fat thing and any time I was having trouble sleeping I'd have some dry cheerios, and then I'd get drowsy. I realize now I was using carbs as a drug! Since being diagnosed and getting a blood sugar meter, I can test and I have noticed that when I start feeling drowsy it is usually because my blood sugar level is elevated at that time. Never happens anymore since lowcarbing (thank you Dr. Atkins). I am thinking you may be more diabetic than you think. If so, the sooner you know and decide to take care, the better outcome you can have. Maybe next time you speak with your doctor mention the sleepiness that comes after eating sweets.

Dee- are you on any med's (such as Mediformin??) Did they do a regular glucose test on you to find out 0r a A1C test?? Are you on a Diabetic Diet along with Low Carb??? Thanks Dee for your reply. I just know something is going on & it is so hard for me to lose wt. Was it hard for you to lose wt prior to finding out??

[Silver Spice]

Originally Posted by Karsen

***SILVER SPICE - What did you have to do to find out - you have the high sensitivity to insulin and reactive hypoglycemic??

MANY many tests and trials with medications, changing doctors, keeping a food journal including what I ate, time, blood sugar readings, etc.

The American Diabetic Diet is way too many carbs for me, and yet Atkins isn't enough. Right now I'm doing Weight Watchers Core plan, but I always have a protein and a fruit (the carb) and very small servings of brown rice, other "good" carbs with a protein meal. Never a carb alone. Always a carb included. Its alot to keep up with, but beats being in the hospital.

[Karsen]

Thanks for reply - - Guess, I'll keep on cking...& going to Dr/s.

[watcher513]

I didn't think to ask, have you had your thyroid checked? Your thyroid is involved with so many other organs it's important to get it checked. If it's out of whack (especially, hypothyroid - low) it can skew other lab tests and show numbers higher (like cholesterol) than they are. Being hypo also affects weight loss, unfortunately, I know, because I am (hereditary). At a minimum, TSH (actually a pituitary test but it's what they all use) and also (might have to insist on these as most docs are in the stone ages and only use the TSH), Free T4, Free T3 and Anti-TPO antibodies. Always get a copy of your lab results that have the ranges they use and keep them. The A1C is a good idea to make sure you're not diabetic (or pre-diabetic) because if you are you want to get it under control asap.

Good luck, I hope something in any of these suggestions helps you.

[Karsen]

I am on Sythroid already.
I got the results of the A1C today. They said it was okay. I ask the number and they said it was - 5.5. So, guess that rules that out.....

[ItsTheWooo]

Metformin is a diabetic drug that works in a multitude of ways to counteract the effects of insulin resistance syndrome. Mainly what it does is stop the liver from making too much sugar, while at the same time making it easier for your muscles to suck up the sugar and use it for energy.

Weight loss occurs for a few reasons. One, with less sugar output, there is less insulin output, and with less insulin output, we store less body fat and water. This results in an almost instant drop on the scale (from the water), and a smaller drop from fat loss. Insulin directly controls nutrient storage, and an excess of insulin directly translate into an excess store of body fat (among other things).
Second, with better insulin sensitivity, there is less insulin output... and again, the cycle works the same as previous.

Also, if the muscle cells are more apt to use sugar for energy, overall metabolic rate increases, and this decreases fat storage and insulin levels for a third time.



However, metformin is not a wonder drug. It only works if you have insulin resistance (a liver, and muscle tissue, that does not respond to insulin normally). Most of the weight your friend lost was probably attributed to her diet and lifestyle change. The only difference is metformin (and the psychological reinforcement of her doctors support) makes her feel more confident about making the change. The drug and the physician support give her direction and assurance, which is essential for a lot of people. When people feel lost, hopeless, and unsupported, it is impossible to make a positive lifestyle change. For example, you went and binged on sweets because of those same feelings.


Bottom line when it comes to insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia, it's all about blood sugar and carbs. Or at least, 90%. Reducing the carbs reduces blood sugar, which reduces the insulin. It is true there is a point of no return with insulin resistance (early on the problem is mostly HYPERINSULINEMIA, secondary to poor / excessive nutrients and sedentary lifestyle... insulin RESISTANCE doesn't really come major effect until late in life or severe obesity). But even if you do have aquired insulin resistance, low carb will *still* go a long way to control the majority of your problems.

My advice: put all your energy into focusing on the carbs. When people go low carb, they often try to do too much at once (restricting artificial sweetener, eating at certain times, restricting fat, restricting calories, exercising, etc). Focus ONLY on eating low carb, set a carb limit that is near ketosis, and eat that or less every day. If you do too much at once you'll overwhelm yourself and run the risk of failiure.
When it comes to obesity/related diseases, it's insulin poisoning, it's carb toxicity, it's modern lifestyle. It's mostly the carbs. Don't focus on meaningless nonsense (artifical sweeteners/meal times/lower fat/lower cal). Just put your energy into doing low carb and sticking with it. This will get you huge results. If, at a later date, when you feel securely cemented into low carb eating, then you can experiment with tweaking, but for now, the most important thing is to reclaim your health by sticking 100% 24/7 never cheating LOW CARB. If you want sweets, eat LOW CARB sweets (sugar free cheesecake, and other baked goods, can be easily prepared with a small investment from netrition). It's really all about the carbs, have faith, and it will work.

If you still have prediabetic symptoms and unacceptable blood sugars/isnulin levels after making this change, then and only then consider taking drugs like metformin. Metformin is not pleasant, as was mentioned it causes gastrointestinal symptoms, and there is a risk of lactic acidosis... and, it's just not good to be drug dependant as a rule of thumb, right?
First make the necessary diet change, commit to it, have faith that you need to do this for your health 100%, come to the forum for your support and encouragement... you can do this

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by Silver Spice

Search the web for this subject and you will see that many doctors are prescribing Metformin *glucophage* for weight loss.

I take a medication that is not for depression OR weight loss but it helps with the symptoms of both conditions.

Out of curiosity, what is this drug? Is it a SNRI like strattera? I have long suspected a link between metabolic defects that would cause a specific kind of depression linked to catecholamines in the brain, as well as weight problems... there is a link between NE, positive mood & mood stability (increased energy in the brain) and low insulin/ketosis (increased fat catbolism). It might explain numerous types of eating disorders, and my own personal issues with mood and food.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by Silver Spice

See, I get sleepy only when my blood glucose is too low. That's why its a good idea to keep track of it.

Eat
test in 90 minutes
levels should be between 100 and 160

I have a very high sensitivity to insulin, but do not show high readings of glucose. Although I am diabetic, I am a reactive hypoglycemic so I can pass out very easily with glucose in the lower end of the "normal" ranges.

Many people have to try to keep their glucose below 100, and I have to struggle to keep mine above 85. I black out at 83, totally unresponsive, going by ambulance to the ER, etc. It's scarey.

Lowcarb actually makes my condition worse, as does high carb. I have to keep it balanced and make sure I eat moderate protein w/ moderate carbs every 2 hours. (slice of cheese, 1/2 an apple, etc) Makes weight loss a very very difficult thing. Thats why I could not take Metformin, because although its not supposed to cause hypoglycemic episodes, it did cause them for me.

A person shouldn't black out at 83. My blood sugar has been as low as 45 and I still did not pass out.
If you pass out at 83, this tells me one of the following.

1) Your meter is broken

2) Your pancreas slams your body hard and fast with insulin when your sugar spikes (therefore, by the time you finger stick and get that 83 reading, good ole mr pancreas has flooded your blood with enough insulin to crash you <60 within a few minutes).

3) Your average blood sugar is *so high* that your body responds as if hypoglycemic when blood sugar is actually in the normal range.



Assuming you have isolated 1 as not being the cause, the problem is most likely #2: You are an insulin hypersecreter. That's pretty much where I fall too. My sugar issues are less related to insulin resistance and more related to an extreme reactivity to carbohydrate and rapid change (up or down) in sugar. I make a ton of insulin for not a ton of carbs. That simple.

Metformin is less beneficial for people like us, because it is of greatest benefit to those with a marked inability to effectively "hear" insulin speaking to their cells. WIth us, we hear insuiln pretty damn well (that's why we crash so easily and so quickly, a spike tells the cells "HERES THE KEY OPEN UP THE LOCK" and out goes all our precious sugar). The problem is that a tiny bit of carb makes a TREMENDOUS bolus of insulin.

We're luckier in a way.... all we have to do is avoid foods that affect blood sugar level. That means eating primarily of fat. You said low carb put you too low: did you try eating a calorie adequate diet with plenty of fat? It's normal to go hypo when switching to low carb initially: the body has to adjust its basal insulin output to a lower level of blood sugar (and, for someone like you, that can easily send you hypo because of how hairtrigger your insulin and sugar levels are).
Protein and carb is a decent way to manage it, but ideally you want to eat mostly of fat, with moderate-high protein and very few carbs.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by Karsen

Thanks for the replies. Well, I called & ask the Dr. to do a "A1C" (I think that's what it was) blood test on me. That's what my friend said I should do. She said she had read where many people just have to diagnose theirselves..... I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with me - SINCE I CAN NOT LOSE WEIGHT!!! For 8 Wks I did Low Carb - was eating very little - - the last month I have done water excercise - (I had been pretty mobile prior due to back problems & the heat outside) - - I've "moved" more than EVER lately - - What have I lost?? It was about 8 lbs in that 8 wks - (fluid)) - but since last wkend and the sweet binge - - I am now still UP almost 5 lbs that WILL NOT COME OFF!!!! (cheated only 4 days of sweets) and now these lbs have packed - the last two of NO Cheats, excercise - - and NOTHING has changed on the scales!!!!! Something has to be wrong!!!!
Course all this does is get me depressed and make me want to go get something gooey sweet.....I know it is just a temporary feel good at the moment - then feel tired and out of it afterwards.....
I just hope someone can figure out what is going on. I know it has something to do with sugar.

SILVER SPICE SAID---------------------------------------------------------------
I have a very high sensitivity to insulin, but do not show high readings of glucose. Although I am diabetic, I am a reactive hypoglycemic so I can pass out very easily with glucose in the lower end of the "normal" ranges.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***SILVER SPICE - What did you have to do to find out - you have the high sensitivity to insulin and reactive hypoglycemic??

If your A1C results are 5.6, and assuming you are overweight and eating a diet with carbs... that's actually a fantastic A1C considering these factors (overweight/obese/carb eating on regular occasions).
Just to give you an idea of how fantastic that is, I was *underweight*, eating an average calorie level of about *1400* and carbs maybe *60-70* and my A1C was only 5.4
I had been low carb for a few years at the time, too. I can only imagine how attrocious my A1C was prior to weight loss cal/carb restriction.

As of last reading, my A1C was 5.1. I"m LC (60 c avg) 4 years strictly.

Sure a 5.6 isn't objectively fantastic, but considering there is still so much room for improvement, it actually tells me that your baseline blood sugar/insulin level is pretty darn good. You aren't prediabetic. I consider 90% of my blood sugar issues to be related to carb sensitivity (not insulin resistance) and it should seem that even my insuiln resistance is probably greater than yours (considering I've already lost all weight and strictly low carb yet still have a relatively high A1C, that has only slowly taperd down over time).

6 months into low carb, 200 lbs, and in constant ketosis... I still had high triglycerides and low HDL. (I did not check my values before low carb, but just the fact they have SLOWLY improved over the years/months is all I need to know).
It takes a long time to really 100% recover. Today my labwork is pretty fantastic, but it took awhile to get to that point and it didn't just happen overnight completely with weight loss.

Point is, considering you have such a good average blood sugar and ahve barely begun your journey, that's a promising sign that insuiln and blood sugar fubarness isn't a major factor for you. Not saying there aren't reasons you aren't losing weight... just that you should investigate elsewhere.

FIrst thing that stands out is you seem to have an emotional dependance upon sugar to alter your moods (repeatedly you give the impression that numbing yourself with sugar is a common coping mechanism you use). IT is normal to feel sleepy and lethargic after eating a large amount of sugar and starch, this isn't a sign of a problem. What may be a problem is that you've learned dto use binging as a way to deal with your problems... an issue that you should confront and try to change right away. THere are many healthier ways to deal with unpleasant feelings. I too am an addictive person so I know how it is (to want to just focus in on one thing that makes you feel better, to the point where it is really hurting your life in a lot of other ways). The key is to diversify. Think of a lot of different things you like to do that will help you feel less stressed, and more positive. One thing that just *love* is going for a nice walk at night listening to headphones. Sometimes, just allow yourself the luxury to cry. A good screamin' cry into a pillow, if need be, is way more effective than binging into a sleep coma, right?

Blah, rambling. Anyway, my point is, it seems like addictive habits with food are at least one of the reasons you have trouble losing weight. Try to replace those old habits with new ones, that won't hurt you and cause health problems. There are many ways to destress, forget, unwind, and express your emotions that don't involve sugar sedation.

[Silver Spice]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

A person shouldn't black out at 83[COLOR="Red"].((I have several times, no fun for sure))[/COLOR] If you pass out at 83, this tells me one of the following.

1) Your meter is broken [COLOR="Red"](((NOPE, it was the hospitals meter and was confirmed with a lab blood work up)).[/COLOR]

2) Your pancreas slams your body hard and fast with insulin when your sugar spikes (therefore, by the time you finger stick and get that 83 reading, good ole mr pancreas has flooded your blood with enough insulin to crash you <60 within a few minutes). [COLOR="red"]((There was no spike. My sugar has been in tight control for years, only occasionally having these episodes of low sugar, but not high. I can eat a whole candy bar and never see over 120)))[/COLOR]
3) Your average blood sugar is *so high* that your body responds as if hypoglycemic when blood sugar is actually in the normal range. [COLOR="red"]((again, no, I do not have a history of high sugar... every check up comes back with an A1C in the range of 4.5 to 5.0 ))[/COLOR]

Assuming you have isolated 1 as not being the cause, the problem is most likely #2: You are an insulin hypersecreter. That's pretty much where I fall too. My sugar issues are less related to insulin resistance and more related to an extreme reactivity to carbohydrate and rapid change (up or down) in sugar. I make a ton of insulin for not a ton of carbs. That simple.

Metformin is less beneficial for people like us, because it is of greatest benefit to those with a marked inability to effectively "hear" insulin speaking to their cells. WIth us, we hear insuiln pretty damn well (that's why we crash so easily and so quickly, a spike tells the cells "HERES THE KEY OPEN UP THE LOCK" and out goes all our precious sugar). The problem is that a tiny bit of carb makes a TREMENDOUS bolus of insulin.

We're luckier in a way.... all we have to do is avoid foods that affect blood sugar level. That means eating primarily of fat. You said low carb put you too low: did you try eating a calorie adequate diet with plenty of fat? It's normal to go hypo when switching to low carb initially: the body has to adjust its basal insulin output to a lower level of blood sugar (and, for someone like you, that can easily send you hypo because of how hairtrigger your insulin and sugar levels are).
Protein and carb is a decent way to manage it, but ideally you want to eat mostly of fat, with moderate-high protein and very few carbs.

I have Brittle diabetes, in fact being so low so often the doctor suggests that I actually tell everyone that I am hypo to prevent them from shooting me with insulin in an emergency. THAT would NOT be good.

I am doing much better since I started following my doctors recommendations to keep carbs in my diet. I have absolutey perfect blood work, very stable normal blood pressure and no heart, kidney, liver or thyroid problems that they can see so far.

[Karsen]

WOO - Well, you have given alot of good advice.
I have NOT been eating alot of carbs - except for the binge last wkend for 3 days Would the 5.6 still be a good A1C number without eating alot of carbs???
- I've been doing low carb for the past 8 wks and not losing weight.....(maybe 5 lbs).....that's why I've wondered why the scales are not moving..since I AM overweight (208)...3 years ago, I did this same low carb and lost 50 lbs.....SO, I don't understand what is going on now?????!!!!!!!!!!

I've been on .88 of Synthroid for a long time....The Dr. upped it to 100 for this one month - to see if it helped with my trying to lose weight----(then after one month I'm to go back to .88) So far I think it is causing me to gain!

I'm going to go crazy if I don't at least drop 10 lbs and get under 200.... My husband has just lost 30lbs in the last 3 months on LC and he told me this morning he now weighs 216 - - I'm thinking, heck soon we'll be weighing the same......

I emailed a wife of a friend - who I found out is a Diabetic Patient Instructor. I found out she has a great class & I'd like to attend it - just to find out how to eat & see if that way help me lose wt, since this way is not. Thought all of you might find her comments interesting. Here it is:

To try and answer your questions:

1. Yes, you can come to class even if not diagnosed with diabetes---may be still in the pre-diabetes state.

Your doctor would need to write you a referral/prescription for class, then you or your doctor’s office could call and see about the dates for the classes



2. Sometimes with a big carb load you get a surge of high blood sugar levels and it does make you feel lousy---sometimes it helps to be able to check blood glucose levels during that time to help decide what is

going on.



3. Some folks lose quite a bit on the low carb diet but it usually is very restrictive when they do and the problem I that you tend to regain the weight if not careful.



4. If you have been through cycles of dieting in the past, your metabolic rate may be so low that just restricting the calorie is not enough---your body slows down to hold on to what it has since the food is not coming

Got to get the activity level up in order to see the weight go down.



5. Sometimes you go through cycles of low blood sugar (the weak episodes you’re describing) and have to eat something—the pancreas may be putting too much insulin in at the wrong time—overshoots and blood sugar goes low, then you eat and put in a big surge and it can’t put enough in the blood stream fast enough to handle it---not unusual to see fluctuations between too high/low and too much/too little but as time goes on, toe blood sugars go up and then we make a diagnosis of diabetes---the fluctuations are an early sign the pancreas may not be functioning just right.



6. next class we have an opening is Oct 15, 16th---just let me know

[Tazcat]

I don't have Diabetes - but I am predisposed to Diabetes due to PCOS - so I do take Metformin - which is a pretty amazing drug. (I used to sell pharmacueticals so off label indications fascinate me).

It's not a weight loss drug per se, but can be helpful

[ItsTheWooo]

HI,
Well that all depends...
1)how long were you on the low carb diet?
2) Did you cheat regularly? (some people think eating whatever once or twice a week doesn't count for some reason... it DOES count for your a1c!)
3) How low is low carb to you? Some people think low carb is 150 grams, others think it's like 20 grams... average carb level matters a LOT, and 10 grams even can make a big difference (60 grams I maintain eating 1650 cals; 45 grams, I lose weight, especially if I eat almost none at morning... big difference there!)

But, considering your weight (I am assuming average height) a 5.6 a1c is still pretty darn good. Being overweight itself is a risk factor (in additoin to a symptom) of impared glucose tolerance and higher insuiln levels. Like I said, mine was 5.4 even when way thin and eating low carb/low cal for a long time.

Since you are on synthroid, am I correct in assuming you have hypothyroidism? If so, have you considered maybe you need a med adjustment? Also, please keep in mind that many factors can interfere with the effectiveness of your thyroid meds. If you have been restricting cals a lot, this can interfere with the effectiveness of your meds. Considering that your a1c is normal, but you do have hypothyroidism, I would investigate that route (possible dosage readjustment necessary) before anthing else.

[ItsTheWooo]

Originally Posted by Silver Spice

I have Brittle diabetes, in fact being so low so often the doctor suggests that I actually tell everyone that I am hypo to prevent them from shooting me with insulin in an emergency. THAT would NOT be good.

I am doing much better since I started following my doctors recommendations to keep carbs in my diet. I have absolutey perfect blood work, very stable normal blood pressure and no heart, kidney, liver or thyroid problems that they can see so far.

Ah I did not realize you were diabetic... are you a type 1 then? It's very unusual for a type 2 to have swings in blood sugar like that.

Yes, with a type 1 you can have a hard fast drop... and worst of all you're never aware your glucose is falling, so one m inute you're 80, and the next minute, you're like 40 (because your insulin sensitivity is good, but if underfed/overmedicated you're using up faster than putting out, because your insuiln comes from that injection and not from your body detecting sugar changes).
The type 1 isn't aware the hypoglycemia is happening because they develop hypoglycemia unawareness... the sympathetic nervous system quite simply stops trying to regulate blood sugar. This is bad for two reasons. One, you are *unaware* of a sharp decline in sugar. IN a normal person who makes too much insuiln (like moi ), we get really ugly nasty emotional and physical symptoms before our blood sugar even goes into the danger zone - all from the adrenals and epinephrine responding to a rapid change in sugar.
Two, that response of adrenal stimulation also works to counteract the sugar drop, by bringing it up again.

In type 1 diabetes the body kinda "forgets" how to regulate its sugar, so you don't get any symptoms OR adjustment of sugar as a natural response. 83 one minute, passed out the next.

For all diabetics, a very low carb diet is best... especially type 1s... however you will have to adjust your meds as blood sugar gets lower. The problem is probably overmedication, not low carb.

[Karsen]

Woo in reply-
1) off & on then good the past 8 wks (just the cheat last wkend)
2) No cheats during the past 8 wks of any sugar - the only "cheats" per say was some peanut butter -some nights out of a spoon or mixed with Walden Farm Sugar Free Jelly.
This past wkend was the first real sugar type sweets in the 8 wks.
3) I haven't counted the carbs lately, & I should - but they should not be much over 20.
Breakfast usually is eggs & candian bacon
this holds me past noon as I am usually busy & have been going for water therapy & excerise during this time.
Lunch-Ease Shake - 2 carbs while on go - If real hungry after therapy - maybe a Atkins Peanut Butter Crisp. (they are the lowest in sugar alchols,etc.) only 1 sugar & 1 sugar alchol & 2 effective carbs. I might only have these bars twice a wk.
Snack- hand ful of almonds
Dinner-meat - salad - usually or one of Linda Sue's Quiches
After Dinner (This is the time I want something more than any other time in the day)
Spoon of Peanut Butter -/&/ OR Waldenfarms Jelly with Flatbread wrap
Sugar Free Jello with Sugar Free Redi Whip
I always drink water - seldom drink carbonated drinks - If I do, it is a Caffiene Free Diet Dr. Pepper - maybe 2 per wk.

The Dr. just re-adjusted my Synthroid the first of Sept. He up the dose to see if it helped in losing wt. So far, losing has been harder... Maybe I need to go back down on my regular lower dose of .88.
THANKS!!

[ItsTheWooo]

Hi,
2 months with no cheats is good, but how were you eating the month before that? A1C measures your average sugar over a 3 month period.

20 carbs is low, however, it seems like you are eating a lot of foods that actually have hidden carbs. EAS products often say 2 or 3 net carb, but in reality it's much higher, because they use maltitol to sweeten. Maltitol is worth anywhere from 50% to 66% the value of regular carb... so the canned EAS shakes aren't a good idea.

Another issue to consider, is the fact that ultra low carb might not be for you . The effectiveness of thyroid hormone is reduced during ketogenic low carb, some people experience this more than others. You might find the scales (and sugar cravings) may go away if you try around 40-50 net. I haven't been ketogenic in a long time but I remember feeling best at around 40 carbs.

A final issue might be that you are eating too many calories. It doesn't seem that way, if what you wrote is what you eat, but it is still a possibility. "Eggs and canadian bacon" might be 1-2 T butter, 4 eggs, 3 oz ham, etc. I mean when I think of "eggs and canadian bacon" I imagine a tiny lick of butter, 2 eggs, and 1 oz ham. Everyone's concept of portion size is different. A "handful of almonds" to me is about 9 (about half an ounce), but for some people it might be 30 (1.5 oz)
Do you know what your average calorie intake is about?

[dreamerdee]

Dee- are you on any med's (such as Mediformin??) Did they do a regular glucose test on you to find out 0r a A1C test?? Are you on a Diabetic Diet along with Low Carb??? Thanks Dee for your reply. I just know something is going on & it is so hard for me to lose wt. Was it hard for you to lose wt prior to finding out??

Hi again Karsen,
Sorry I haven't been back for a few days. I am on metformin, 500mg after breakfast and another 500 after supper. When first diagnosed (via a booth at a festival following downing one of those sugary ice cones!) I had a blood sugar level of 222. I made a doc appt asap. They did the A1c there, and it came out just over 12. That is bad, bad, bad. Doc started me on the metformin just 500, then went up until I was taking 1000mg twice a day. It was a couple or more years later that I found Atkins. After losing some, and having way better blood sugar levels I decreased the metformin on my own. At doctor visits she agreed to reduce it more, until just 500 daily, then discontinued totally. I started gaining weight, and thus begain an alice in wonderland type journey trying to figure out what the heck was going on. I kept the same diet, exercise, etc. Lots of trying to track down thyroid support (I am hpyo w/hashimotos). Finally decided to add the metformin back in again. Currently am on 500 twice a day & my last A1c was 5.0 which is the lowest (best) I've ever had. My daily readings are mostly in the 90's.

As for diet, what the ADA calls diabetic diet is way high in carbs, and doesn't do much to prevent the long term complications of the disease. Low carb IMO is the way to treat diabetes. I have so far avoided even the beginnings of the various complications that come with diabetes. What I eat is mostly meats and low carb veggies such as salads, green beans, asparagus, etc. And some low carb fruits such as berries, yogurt without sugar, but with splenda. I mostly avoid all the low carb convenience foods, for me they were kind of like methadone, I got too hooked on them. Especially the evil delicious ice creams.

I finally stopped regaining weight and have lost some of the regain. At this point I am more concerned with keeping my blood sugar levels where they should be. I would love to lose more weight, but so far no miracles. I am working with a new doctor and hoping that he has a better understanding of thyroid issues.

[Karsen]

wOO-iN REPLY- when I eat eggs - I spray the skillet w/ pam ---no butter....
Almonds - I usually eat around 10-12. Max would be the serving size of I believe 21, but not often - usually 10-12.

The month before low carb - I was eat fair one day - - eat terrible one day etc. eat low carb one day (probably a Mon) etc ...On and off trying to do good and not......

Thanks for your help. It's Monday - Don't know what to eat - that would be good for me and help me to lose weight. Actually I get so sickk of eggs when trying to do low carb.... Thats why I do the Eas, especially at lunch when I'm gone from home doing errands and feel it's time I eat something.... SUGGESTIONS?????