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Old 06-23-2009, 08:12 AM   #871
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I am on metformin 850 3 times a day and I have been going up and down on my lantus dosage based on my morning sugar. yesterday I took about 27 units in the morning and before I went to bed at 12 last night BS was 150. This morning when I woke up at 6 it was 60. What can I do about this. I did only have an atkins shake in the even with about 2 squares of the peanut butter fudge. But, going to bed with it 150 and at 12 at night should have been safe enough. Does that mean It needed to be higher? That was hours after after having my dinner. I cant wake up in the middle of the night just to have a snack to prevent this. There has to be something else other than taking the fast acting insulin. I took 20 units this morning and ate at least 10 carbs with my breakfast. I took my sugar about 15 minutes after breakfast and it was 119. This is all so hard to perfect. Almost impossible to know what your body and the insulin is going to do.
60 is not too low for morning, so no need to prevent it. 60-90 is normal fasting BS. 150 is way too high before bed to prevent health problems over time. Remember that as you lower carbs, your meds must also be adjusted by your doc. If you are type II, you may be able to reduce insulin to zero or near zero with your doc's coordination. If you are type I, you may be able to reduce your insulin quite a bit, but you will always need some since your body doesn't make it. It looks to me like you need to adjust the meds, not eat more carbs.

Have you read Dr. Richard Bernstein's book yet? It's required reading for diabetics, lol. He has been type I for over 65 years and only needs 7 units of insulin a day along with his 30-gram/day carb diet. So you can see that your 27 units is a little on the high side. Everyone is different, so that is why you need your doc to taper you down. You may also be one of those diabetics that has fluctuating blood sugars, so that will make it more tricky.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #872
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60 is not too low for morning, so no need to prevent it. 60-90 is normal fasting BS. 150 is way too high before bed to prevent health problems over time. Remember that as you lower carbs, your meds must also be adjusted by your doc. If you are type II, you may be able to reduce insulin to zero or near zero with your doc's coordination. If you are type I, you may be able to reduce your insulin quite a bit, but you will always need some since your body doesn't make it. It looks to me like you need to adjust the meds, not eat more carbs.

Have you read Dr. Richard Bernstein's book yet? It's required reading for diabetics, lol. He has been type I for over 65 years and only needs 7 units of insulin a day along with his 30-gram/day carb diet. So you can see that your 27 units is a little on the high side. Everyone is different, so that is why you need your doc to taper you down. You may also be one of those diabetics that has fluctuating blood sugars, so that will make it more tricky.
well, if it was lower than 150 at that time of night then it would have been really low by morning. My insurance is running out at the end of the month and there will be no more endo. I am type II. Lanust cause lower numbers by morning. That is the problem. Yes I have the book. My edno just told me to go up and down by two units. My blood sugar is very tricky. I have not figured it out yet. I have been staying between 5 and 10 carbs per meal. I dont think it would be a good idea to follow his carb intake since he says 6 in morning and higher rest of day. I dont know. Because my sugar is lower in the morning due to lantus. After breakfast this morning my sugar stayed around 100. I went to work out and it went up to 117. I am going to have an atkins shake for lunch instead of dinner like I did yesterday. This is all so hard.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:50 PM   #873
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well, if it was lower than 150 at that time of night then it would have been really low by morning. My insurance is running out at the end of the month and there will be no more endo. I am type II. Lanust cause lower numbers by morning. That is the problem. Yes I have the book. My edno just told me to go up and down by two units. My blood sugar is very tricky. I have not figured it out yet. I have been staying between 5 and 10 carbs per meal. I dont think it would be a good idea to follow his carb intake since he says 6 in morning and higher rest of day. I dont know. Because my sugar is lower in the morning due to lantus. After breakfast this morning my sugar stayed around 100. I went to work out and it went up to 117. I am going to have an atkins shake for lunch instead of dinner like I did yesterday. This is all so hard.
Babsy, I really hear your frustration. Hang in there. If your doc says only lower lantus by 2 units at a time, then that's what you should do, and your morning and night blood sugars will hopefully even out. I guess I don't get why they were 150 before bed? Was that on purpose? I agree that not everyone should follow the 6-12-12 carb pattern that Bernstein does, just important to read the book. I'm real big on everyone experimenting until they find what works for them.

I guess your main question about should your carbs be higher than 150 before bed would be answered best by "no." Work on lowering the insulin that is obviously too high a dose for you. 27 units is quite a lot. Your endo said you could lower it, so it's a good idea, especially since you're losing your insurance and may not be able to afford it soon anyway. Better to taper off rather than go cold turkey at some point. Did you know that a diabetic taking no meds will hardly ever go hypo? I can push and push and starve and not go below 80 ever. There is a lot of freedom in never having to worry about it. And low carb means I don't have to worry about it going too high either.

Try not to worry too much. Your blood sugars are actually pretty good, and as long as you're working at it, you will figure out how to get that A1c eventually around 5.0 or less, with or without a doctor to lean on. You really are on the right track.

Maybe others more familiar with insulin/metformin will contribute here. I take no meds, although everyone else in my family does, so I'm familiar but not experienced with it.

BTW, working out does raise your blood sugar temporarily due to the liver squirting out a little glucose. Just something we have to deal with. The good thing is that exercise increases circulation and insulin absorption too.

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Old 06-23-2009, 08:59 PM   #874
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no it was not on purpose that my blood sugar was . It just was. If it were any lower at that time, I would have been in trouble with it being lower than when I got up. Thats the way it is with lantus. It seems to be much lower around 3 to morning. I asked if I could take it at night since I have heard of some doing that and he said no. My blood sugar is all over the place. I have recently quit drinking so I think that may help.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:04 PM   #875
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no it was not on purpose that my blood sugar was . It just was. If it were any lower at that time, I would have been in trouble with it being lower than when I got up. Thats the way it is with lantus. It seems to be much lower around 3 to morning. I asked if I could take it at night since I have heard of some doing that and he said no. My blood sugar is all over the place. I have recently quit drinking so I think that may help.
I wish I could help more, but I just see the lantus needs to be cut down quite a lot. Don't know why the doc says you need it at night, but he's the one with the degree.
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Old 06-24-2009, 05:42 AM   #876
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I wish I could help more, but I just see the lantus needs to be cut down quite a lot. Don't know why the doc says you need it at night, but he's the one with the degree.
I woke up with my blood sugar 119 this morning so I had to increase it. I used 26 units from 20 yesterday. I had to. Sugar was 60 yesterday. I think it should go up and down depending on my morning sugar. He is not the one who suggested taking it at night. It was someone on this board. I asked him and he said no.
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:52 AM   #877
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Babsy -My BS was 133 this morning - so I am having similar problems.

Does everyone go to a specialist doctor for their diabetes or a regular family doctor? - Just curious - I have to switch doctors.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:20 AM   #878
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Babsy, I hear you on all this - I am also on metformin 850 mg 3x a day - you also take insulin? This has me confused - what is a unit?

I am always high in the morning - today was 180 and then it will be fine thru the day - (as long as I behave)

I am trying so hard to lose this extra 40 lbs and I know things will be so much better with my bs.

At least we are working on taking care of the problem, right? - there are people out there that don't really care........
Yes, I take insulin. I was put on glipizide at one point for a few years and it caused me to gain weight and it did not work much and then I added lantus which is a slow acting insulin. I dont know how to describe a unit but all I can say it is one line or number on the pen or syringe whatever people use.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:20 AM   #879
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Yes, I take insulin. I was put on glipizide at one point for a few years and it caused me to gain weight and it did not work much and then I added lantus which is a slow acting insulin. I dont know how to describe a unit but all I can say it is one line or number on the pen or syringe whatever people use.
oh, recently I stopped taking the glipizide and just started using the lantus. It was worthless for me anyway.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:22 AM   #880
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Babsy -My BS was 133 this morning - so I am having similar problems.

Does everyone go to a specialist doctor for their diabetes or a regular family doctor? - Just curious - I have to switch doctors.

My opinion, my endo was not much difference. I even had one endo take my meformin away and I freaked out and got another doctor.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:42 AM   #881
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I agree - I went to an endo last year and I was not impressed at all and I need to find a good family doctor for my kids also so maybe I can find one who I actually like and cares about our health. Last one was more concerned about his life and getting his co-pays plus he was super arrogant and obnoxious. He is right down street from my office so it was a convenience thing but last time my oldest DD went to him, he was super arrogant so that is it!
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:10 AM   #882
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Babsy - Have you considered seeing a different doctor? You might have better glucose control with another doctor. Of course they can't work miracles, or change the way your body reacts, but someone else might put you on a different med regimen that works better for your needs. I would advice against playing with your dosage too much without consulting with your doctor. The people on this board are full of knowledge, and wonderful, but they are not doctors, and while they have good intentions, you could harm your health in the process. They don't know your medical history. Everyone is different. What works for one person, might not work for another.

Cheryl - I see both. I have my general doctor who I see for general diabetes issues and then my endo for more specialized care. The endo appointments take a while, so my general doc is always a good backup for quickie visits. They are husband/wife so it works out great. They are in the same city. And also work well together as far as exchanging information between the two facilities.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:45 AM   #883
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I am jealous, NurseMonkee - how luck you are to have good doctors!
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #884
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Babsy - Have you considered seeing a different doctor? You might have better glucose control with another doctor. Of course they can't work miracles, or change the way your body reacts, but someone else might put you on a different med regimen that works better for your needs. I would advice against playing with your dosage too much without consulting with your doctor. The people on this board are full of knowledge, and wonderful, but they are not doctors, and while they have good intentions, you could harm your health in the process. They don't know your medical history. Everyone is different. What works for one person, might not work for another.

Cheryl - I see both. I have my general doctor who I see for general diabetes issues and then my endo for more specialized care. The endo appointments take a while, so my general doc is always a good backup for quickie visits. They are husband/wife so it works out great. They are in the same city. And also work well together as far as exchanging information between the two facilities.
Just want to point out that I never suggest anyone go against their doc's advice, ever. If a person wants to do that, fine, or maybe it's time for a different doc, but I don't feel I know better than they or their doc. For Babsy, when I saw that lantus, that one night, was the obvious culprit for a 60 in the morning down from 155, and that her doc said she could taper by 2 units at a time, I just pointed it out (maybe not all that clearly). But also, it is clear that Babsy has a wildly fluctuating blood sugar problem, which is very very tricky to control. What really made me jump in there is when Babsy said she was losing her insurance. If that means meds cut off abruptly, then some intermediate lay-help might be called for because that will be the only support available. Suggesting tapering to someone who may not be able to get meds in the near future I don't think is irresponsible, just common sense.

BTW, I'm not offended or anything, just wanting to clarify and set the record straight that I'm not trying to doctor anyone. It's just that allopathic medicine has its limits, and beyond those limits we do have to figure out some things for ourselves. Hard to figure out where that line is sometimes.
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:53 AM   #885
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Your post is not why I said that.
I am sorry if it seemed like I was directing my comment at you, I wasn't.

I was commenting on Babsy saying that someone on the board recommended that she take the meds at night when her doctor adviced her not to.

I just think that people should only alter their dosage with doctor supervision. That is why I commented.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:48 PM   #886
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Your post is not why I said that.
I am sorry if it seemed like I was directing my comment at you, I wasn't.

I was commenting on Babsy saying that someone on the board recommended that she take the meds at night when her doctor adviced her not to.

I just think that people should only alter their dosage with doctor supervision. That is why I commented.
That's cool, I just got paranoid that I was maybe crossing a line or at least would be perceived that way.

Are you trying the apple cider vinegar? I'm not doing it right now because I'm just too overwhelmed with other stuff. Will try it earnestly soon.
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:00 PM   #887
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I agree - I went to an endo last year and I was not impressed at all and I need to find a good family doctor for my kids also so maybe I can find one who I actually like and cares about our health. Last one was more concerned about his life and getting his co-pays plus he was super arrogant and obnoxious. He is right down street from my office so it was a convenience thing but last time my oldest DD went to him, he was super arrogant so that is it!

oh, exacty
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:41 PM   #888
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I woke up with my blood sugar 119 this morning so I had to increase it. I used 26 units from 20 yesterday. I had to. Sugar was 60 yesterday. I think it should go up and down depending on my morning sugar. He is not the one who suggested taking it at night. It was someone on this board. I asked him and he said no.

I took my blood sugar this moring a few hours after breakfast and it was like 86 so I was a little concerned that I may have taken too much insulin. But, just days before when my sugar was around 119 I took that much and it wasnt enough. Frustrating. I had an appointment at 10:30 so I was concerned I would get a low during my visit so I ate an atkins day break bar and it went up to 130 so I was ok with that till lunch. I even went to the movies and had lots of popcorn and after it was only 130 so I kept thinking about what mermaid said about lowering the insulin. It is all so confusing. Maybe my sugars are getting better since I have not had any alcohol in a week and a half. My goal would be to lose enough weight to get off the sulin. I weigh now about 189. I lost about 7 pounds since no drinking. I really dont think that 26 units is alot. I was taking 32 about a week and a half ago.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:56 PM   #889
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Babsy, congrats on quitting drinking. It may very well be that your adjustment to that is causing a little unpredictability right now. It still looks to me like you are doing pretty well all in all. Just a little tweaking here and there with carbs, insulin, and whatever else should eventually lead to tighter control. It just takes time. Try not to stress about it, just keep at it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:48 AM   #890
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Interesting posts about protein intake. I have not specifically noticed an issue with protein, but I have certainly noticed that when I eat less than usual on a given day, my bs readings tend to be lower the next morning. Maybe the glucophage concept could account for that.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:10 AM   #891
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Babsy -My BS was 133 this morning - so I am having similar problems.

Does everyone go to a specialist doctor for their diabetes or a regular family doctor? - Just curious - I have to switch doctors.
I actually like my endocrinologist better than my GP. Not only does she spend more time with me and seem more concerned with what I have to say, she diagnosed a bunch of problems immediately that no internist had ever had me tested for before. My current GP had never mentioned diabetes to me. He'd mentioned another condition I've now been diagnosed with - polycystic ovary syndrome - in a casual way. But he made it sound more like a cosmetic nuisance than the serious, serious problem it is (untreated, it leads to diabetes and cancer), so at the time I didn't take it seriously.

The only reason I went to my endocrinologist in the first place was for hypothyroidism. If I hadn't gone to a specialist for my thyroid, I probably still wouldn't even KNOW I had diabetes.

I can't speak for the area in which you live, but around here, if you go see a gp and complain about weight gain, fatigue, and inability to cope, you're likely to get diagnosed with depression and referred to a psychologist or a social worker. Once upon time depression was a diagnosis of last resort - now it's the first thing a lot of general doctors seem to think of.

I can't help wondering how many undiagnosed diabetics are trying to medicate their problems with Prozac.
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:32 AM   #892
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well, I woke up this morning with blood sugar at 70. I decided not to take the lantus at all and see what happens. I had a low carb torilla with 3 oz of turkey and mayo. I am pretty sure I am going to need the lantus, but I may just start at a very low dose and go up such as 5 or 6 units.
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:11 AM   #893
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I woke up this morning with blood sugar at 67. I did not take any lantus and I ate one of those big wraps with 20 carbs and 12 fiber with 2 eggs and a piece of american cheese and about 5 hours later (I had went back to sleep and got up around 11) my blood sugar was 86. I have never had my blood sugar this great. I just hope I never go back to drinking because it would ruin everything. I will probably lose faster if I dont use the insulin and have some slightly high readings till then. Any opinions? Mermaid, blood sugar 101?
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:16 PM   #894
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I woke up this morning with blood sugar at 67. I did not take any lantus and I ate one of those big wraps with 20 carbs and 12 fiber with 2 eggs and a piece of american cheese and about 5 hours later (I had went back to sleep and got up around 11) my blood sugar was 86. I have never had my blood sugar this great. I just hope I never go back to drinking because it would ruin everything. I will probably lose faster if I dont use the insulin and have some slightly high readings till then. Any opinions? Mermaid, blood sugar 101?
Those are fantastic blood sugars. Quitting drinking was obviously the right thing to do. I would only very slowly back off the meds (you do have permission from the doc as I understand it to do that). I really am not sure if you will lose faster without meds. It might not be the case.

You're doing great Babsy, way to go!!
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:31 AM   #895
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well, my blood sugar was 80 this morning so I know I need some insulin. I just used 10 units. I will just go up from there. I probably should have used around 24 or so but I am going to experiment. Ciz I dont feel comfortable about going nothing to 24. Well, then I tell myself that I went from 67 to 180.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:29 AM   #896
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a few hours after eating, my blood sugar is still 180. So 10 units was way too low. It seems that I need to be on some kind of sliding scale with the lantus. I should have known that at 180 this morning I should have injected around 20 units.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:45 AM   #897
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Yesterday my b/s didn't drop below 110. I was pretty bummed about that since I am staying low in carbs for a few weeks. I had maybe 15 carbs and that is w/counting the fiber carbs, too. Maybe I am over eating protein? I don't think that I am eating huge amounts, but am eating more now. I am having steak instead of chicken/seafood.

Oh well.

This morning I woke up at 117.
I get dawn phen. numbers, so it is not too terrible.
My morning numbers are getting back on track again. For a while I kept waking up in the high 130's.


Babsy - Did you eat something different? Atkins Bars/Shakes? or too much protein? Both always show up LATER and not right away. Did you get emotionally upset? That raises my numbers quick.

Must be frustrating to have your b/s fluctuate so much w/out reason. I hope you figure it out soon.

Congrats on dropping the alcohol. I think that is the best decision you could've made.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:02 AM   #898
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well I did have a shake but my bs dont go up after having a shake. I just think it was because I didnt take insulin yesterday and I need some probably everyday even if just a tiny amount.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:16 AM   #899
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Nursemonkee,
I am having a similar problem, with my blood sugars hanging out around 107 for two days, even at 5 grams carbs yesterday and 10 the day before! My protein was under 90 grams both days too. I am approaching TOM, so I hope that is the problem and I can get back to being in the 80's and 90's like I was doing for a few weeks (doing the same things I am doing now).

So much for the ACV helping, eh? It seemed like it was going to work, and then it just didn't for me. Glad it works for some folks, though. Are you still trying it?

Babsy,
Wow, they used to call your condition being a "brittle" diabetic, meaning bouncing around all over the place with blood sugars. It is really hard to deal with. Keep on trying though! It's good that you're really on it, trying to figure it out.

The final thing I can think of is that you may have some food sensitivities that are sending you soaring sometimes. For me, any grains at all will shoot my blood sugar up, and so will soy. Others react to dairy, tomatoes, onions, and many other things. It's highly individual, and not dependent on the number of carbs.
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #900
Blabbermouth!!!
 
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Monkeeville USA
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Start Date: Summer 08
I am still taking the ACV. It has only been 2-3 days for me. It is too early to tell if it works just yet. I am mainly taking it for yeast issues, but if it helps my b/s, it would be great! LOL. Yesterday I increased it to 2T daily.
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