No Red Yeast Rice and no statins for ME!

juliekaboolie · 08-11-2012, 09:53 PM

Jeez! I've read so much stuff on statins, and I'm against them, but I've let my endocrinologist scare me into taking them. I took pravastatin for 6 weeks and it caused nausea, vomiting, fatigue, and muscle pain. Went off it and felt better. I told her I won't take a statin, but I would be willing to try RYR knowing it had statin properties. Well, I have nausea, fatigue, and headache, and I was close to vomiting again last night. This cannot be good for me! If it doesn't change particle size and only lowers totals, what really is the point in taking it?? From what I understand, it doesn't really help women anyway. She said my genetic testing shows I'm an 'overproducer' of cholesterol. My total was 266. My HDL was 51, LDL 184, Triglycerides 106. I've doubled my fish oil. I have a thyroid that is low in T3. I just got treated for anemia with an iron infusion...seems like there are other physical issues I need to resolve that may help my cholesterol. I just can't see cholesterol as the ISSUE...more like the symptom. What do you think? Regardless, I'm completely finished with statins. I hate them!

picklepete · 08-11-2012, 10:23 PM

Cholesterol is very complicated. Not every physician is fully educated on the topic, so individuals should educate themselves before making drug and dietary changes. I recommend Peter Attia's series of blog posts. He claims the most important number worth knowing is the LDL-P value from an NMR test (which isn't common unfortunately).

cfine · 08-12-2012, 05:38 AM

Would your doctor be willing to do the blood test that checks to see if your cholesterol is the big fluffy kind? If you can find out this information it could help make your decision to take meds easier. Only the small particle kind will harm your health.

lterry913 · 08-12-2012, 07:13 AM

I see you increased your fish oil... make sure you follow instructions because too much oil in the stomach could cause nausea also. The advice given above about ldl is also what I have read. Good luck and give lc a few months, sometimes your numbers will actually be worse at first...it's the bodies way of compensating for the changes you have made.

clackley · 08-12-2012, 08:11 AM

I couldn't agree with you more Julie. Statins are not the answer for females. Cholesterol is very functional and if the numbers are outside the 'normal' range, it is likely in response to something else.

I have read a # of times that if one has thyroid problems, a common symptom is 'abnormal' LDL.

O.t. - love your new avi - you look the picture of health!!

juliekaboolie · 08-12-2012, 09:00 AM

@picklepete: my LDL-P was tested and is high....but much better than it used to be. My endo says I'm not a 'super absorber' based on my testing. This must be a good thing considering my diet. Also, the genetic testing she did it shows that my body does not activate folate properly so I must take this supplement. I also wonder if this may affect cholesterol...namely LDL. I don't absorb iron or vitamin D well...incidentally, my insulin, although not ideal, has come down from 19 to 14.

@clackley: thank you!! I am feeling much better...not great, yet, but definitely on the mend after my thyroid med drama and hospitalization in May.

juliekaboolie · 08-12-2012, 09:04 AM

Oh, and incidentally, my HS-Omega-3 Index (ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6) is in the 'optimal' range.

ravenrose · 08-12-2012, 01:10 PM

did you ever get the vap test?

juliekaboolie · 08-12-2012, 01:44 PM

@ravenrose: it loOks like I did not.

shmabby · 08-13-2012, 04:52 AM

I'm just learning about this now but I've read that some drs consider the NMR lipo to be a much better test than the VAP.

cobra2411 · 08-20-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmabby

I'm just learning about this now but I've read that some drs consider the NMR lipo to be a much better test than the VAP.

Since I've only had the standard test I plan on getting both the VAP & NMR Lipo at my physical in a couple weeks so I have a baseline.

Pete hit it on the head, not all cholesterol is the same and you're right, it's a symptom more so than a cause.

I would start to look down the road of inflammation. Cholesterol is used for repairing your arteries and if you have chronic inflammation that could be causing your higher levels.

juliekaboolie · 08-20-2012, 10:47 AM

I actually emailed with Jimmy Moore from Livin' La Vida Low Carb and he has had success following a very high fat diet (85%), mod protein, low carb. He said that based on his research, the high saturated fat should correct the LDL issue and increase HDL's ...so will lowering carbs. I started yesterday, and the high fat actually made me ill...too much fat...I'm going to have to ease into it, I think. However, I lost 2 lbs overnight which I haven't seen in a while!

So who knows!

cobra2411 · 08-20-2012, 11:24 AM

Saturated fats raise both HDL and LDL cholesterol and leave the ratio unchanged. Unsaturated fat, which meat has, lowers LDL cholesterol resulting in a net improvement in the LDL:HDL ratio.

A high saturated fat diet can also cause difficultly eating enough calories because you'll tend to feel full all the time.

I would focus on foods that reduce inflammation.

1- Cut out all grains, even 'heart healthy' whole grains.
2- Cut out starches.
3- Cut out all sugars, corn syrups, and derivatives. Don't go overboard with artificial sweeteners.
4- Add low glycemic load veggies to every meal. Peppers, broccoli, carrots, onions, garlic, etc. Don't worry too much about carbs from these sources, they're packed with fiber and other goodies.
5- Ditch juices, eat real fruit instead. Without the fiber, even 100% natural juices are just sugar water.
6- Watch the red meat and eggs. Some is good but too much is bad because it's inflammatory.
7- Exercise. 20-30 minutes, 3 times a week of good exercise will lower LDL and boost HDL. Anything that breaks a sweat is good but I prefer high intensity, short duration interval stuff. Dr Al Sears P.A.C.E. is a good start IMO.

IMO your cholesterol is high because it needs to be. That's not to say it's a good thing, but it's a symptom of something else which IMO is inflammation. Reduce inflammation and you'll reduce your cholesterol.

BTW, statins reduce inflammation which IMO is where the benefits come from, not the reduction in cholesterol.

juliekaboolie · 08-20-2012, 11:51 AM

Yes, we'll I've been low carb for 19 months and eaten a Primal diet (grain and sugar free) for around a year now. My research not only comes from someone like Jummy Moore but drs Volek and Phinney....leading researchers in the low carb movemt. I also follow the advice of mark Sisson and Robb Wolf. I disagree with your position on saturated fats based on my own research. I believe my cholesterol is a symptom of something else going on within my body. I eat a VLC diet of around 20 net grams. I walk, hike and do yoga. I cannot do anything that raises my hr too high because of a genetic heart condition I have called LQTS TYPE 1.

I would also like to say that I am absolutely against statins for multiple reasons.

JayLynn · 08-20-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

Yes, we'll I've been low carb for 19 months and eaten a Primal diet (grain and sugar free) for around a year now. My research not only comes from someone like Jummy Moore but drs Volek and Phinney....leading researchers in the low carb movemt. I also follow the advice of mark Sisson and Robb Wolf. I disagree with your position on saturated fats based on my own research. I believe my cholesterol is a symptom of something else going on within my body. I eat a VLC diet of around 20 net grams. I walk, hike and do yoga. I cannot do anything that raises my hr too high because of a genetic heart condition I have called LQTS TYPE 1.

I would also like to say that I am absolutely against statins for multiple reasons.

Me too! Because of health insurance, I had to go to a primary care doctor that I think is an idiot. Sorry, but after working for health insurance companies for years, I know one when I see one. I went to her for just regular blood work and a yearly physical. She wanted to put me on blood pressure meds, and statins, because my numbers were "borderline".
I told her no way, and I would first make a sincere effort to change these with diet and exercise. She told me I was playing with fire. I told her she only went by what the "text books" told her to do and had no idea of how to treat the "whole person". Needless to say, that was my first and last visit.

I now see a naturopath and my numbers are still a bit high, but better than they were, because I am sticking to LC and exercising more. I could do much better with exercise, but I am trying.

As far as I'm concerned, statins are toxic and can cause things like liver damage, memory loss, and muscle damage. It may take years to see any of these side effects, but knowing their downfall is enough for me.

cobra2411 · 08-20-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliekaboolie

I disagree with your position on saturated fats based on my own research.

Just to clarify, I think we both agree, just from a different point of view - there is a net positive improvement to eating a high fat diet to the HDL:LDL cholesterol ratio. I am not saying that eating a high fat diet does bad things to cholesterol. Just that when specifically referring to saturated fats they increase cholesterol and poly/mono unsaturated fats improve it.

Now... All meat has mono/poly unsaturated fats along with the saturated fats so the net result is a more favorable cholesterol ratio.

My opinion on why so many people see a reduction in cholesterol is based on the reduction in inflammation. Many people are carb intolerant and especially with today's highly refined carbs people's glucose/insulin levels yo-yo all over the place. That causes inflammation which the body treats with cholesterol.

Switching from a low fat/high carb diet to a high fat/low carb diet will generally improve cholesterol numbers because it's not really about what we eat but what it does to our bodies.

Have you tried increasing your veggies? Especially raw, fresh ones? Could it be a micro/macro nutritional deficiency? Veggies are good things, even for us LC'rs.

juliekaboolie · 08-20-2012, 01:38 PM

I eat a lot of fresh, organic veggies. I actually believe my cholesterol issues stem from a thyroid issue. I've been hypo for roughly 10 years and currently have low T3 and was just treated by iron IV for anemia. I personally think my numbers reflect those imbalances. I've been eating grain free and sugar free (no artificial sweeteners or processed foods) for a year now. This is why I believe my cholesterol is a symptom of some other underlying cause that is not diet based. I take tons of vitamins recommended by my endo, too. Statins are one of two areas we hotly disagree on and grains are the second. There are no known studies on the effectiveness of statins on women. Not to mention there have been studies that show it hurts the mitochondria of the cells and greatly reduces CoQ10. I have poor side effects from statins, as well.

cobra2411 · 08-20-2012, 02:44 PM

Just trying the obvious...

And I agree on statins. Just saying that the 'benefits' are likely more from reduction of inflammation than from lowering of cholesterol. I doubt we'll see a definitive study on that though... There's too much money to be made treating the sick and if the treatment has side effects then that's just more pills to sell...

JayLynn · 08-21-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra2411

Just trying the obvious...

And I agree on statins. Just saying that the 'benefits' are likely more from reduction of inflammation than from lowering of cholesterol. I doubt we'll see a definitive study on that though... There's too much money to be made treating the sick and if the treatment has side effects then that's just more pills to sell...

That is the sad, scary truth! Big Pharma is all about the almighty $$$

watcher513 · 09-01-2012, 01:38 AM

Although my thyroid function has been pretty good/stabilized for the last year, there were a few times when it was way off, so was my total cholesterol. When my thyroid replacement was optimized (hypo/hashi's), my cholesterol dropped about 30 points. They're very connected. I also have hemolytic anemia and take folic acid for that.

08-11-2012, 09:53 PM	#1
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	No Red Yeast Rice and no statins for ME! Jeez! I've read so much stuff on statins, and I'm against them, but I've let my endocrinologist scare me into taking them. I took pravastatin for 6 weeks and it caused nausea, vomiting, fatigue, and muscle pain. Went off it and felt better. I told her I won't take a statin, but I would be willing to try RYR knowing it had statin properties. Well, I have nausea, fatigue, and headache, and I was close to vomiting again last night. This cannot be good for me! If it doesn't change particle size and only lowers totals, what really is the point in taking it?? From what I understand, it doesn't really help women anyway. She said my genetic testing shows I'm an 'overproducer' of cholesterol. My total was 266. My HDL was 51, LDL 184, Triglycerides 106. I've doubled my fish oil. I have a thyroid that is low in T3. I just got treated for anemia with an iron infusion...seems like there are other physical issues I need to resolve that may help my cholesterol. I just can't see cholesterol as the ISSUE...more like the symptom. What do you think? Regardless, I'm completely finished with statins. I hate them! __________________ ~ "Before"- 227lbs (2008) ~ "Current"-185lbs (April, 2013) My goal has changed from mere weight loss to health, quality of life, and longevity. This is no longer a diet but a way of life. "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER GIVE UP!"~Winston Churchill

08-20-2012, 11:24 AM	#13
cobra2411 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Philly Pa Posts: 166 Gallery: cobra2411 Stats: 323/246/223 WOE: 75lbs lost on Atkins now JUDDD Start Date: May 2011	Saturated fats raise both HDL and LDL cholesterol and leave the ratio unchanged. Unsaturated fat, which meat has, lowers LDL cholesterol resulting in a net improvement in the LDL:HDL ratio. A high saturated fat diet can also cause difficultly eating enough calories because you'll tend to feel full all the time. I would focus on foods that reduce inflammation. 1- Cut out all grains, even 'heart healthy' whole grains. 2- Cut out starches. 3- Cut out all sugars, corn syrups, and derivatives. Don't go overboard with artificial sweeteners. 4- Add low glycemic load veggies to every meal. Peppers, broccoli, carrots, onions, garlic, etc. Don't worry too much about carbs from these sources, they're packed with fiber and other goodies. 5- Ditch juices, eat real fruit instead. Without the fiber, even 100% natural juices are just sugar water. 6- Watch the red meat and eggs. Some is good but too much is bad because it's inflammatory. 7- Exercise. 20-30 minutes, 3 times a week of good exercise will lower LDL and boost HDL. Anything that breaks a sweat is good but I prefer high intensity, short duration interval stuff. Dr Al Sears P.A.C.E. is a good start IMO. IMO your cholesterol is high because it needs to be. That's not to say it's a good thing, but it's a symptom of something else which IMO is inflammation. Reduce inflammation and you'll reduce your cholesterol. BTW, statins reduce inflammation which IMO is where the benefits come from, not the reduction in cholesterol. Last edited by cobra2411; 08-20-2012 at 11:26 AM..

08-20-2012, 11:51 AM	#14
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	Yes, we'll I've been low carb for 19 months and eaten a Primal diet (grain and sugar free) for around a year now. My research not only comes from someone like Jummy Moore but drs Volek and Phinney....leading researchers in the low carb movemt. I also follow the advice of mark Sisson and Robb Wolf. I disagree with your position on saturated fats based on my own research. I believe my cholesterol is a symptom of something else going on within my body. I eat a VLC diet of around 20 net grams. I walk, hike and do yoga. I cannot do anything that raises my hr too high because of a genetic heart condition I have called LQTS TYPE 1. I would also like to say that I am absolutely against statins for multiple reasons. Last edited by juliekaboolie; 08-20-2012 at 11:52 AM..

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08-11-2012, 10:23 PM	#2
picklepete Senior LCF Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 750 Gallery: picklepete Stats: 265/189/189 WOE: 6hr window + no refined calories	Cholesterol is very complicated. Not every physician is fully educated on the topic, so individuals should educate themselves before making drug and dietary changes. I recommend Peter Attia's series of blog posts. He claims the most important number worth knowing is the LDL-P value from an NMR test (which isn't common unfortunately).

08-12-2012, 05:38 AM	#3
cfine Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,456 Gallery: cfine Stats: 276/215/199 WOE: NK Start Date: Atkins 4/12 Nutritional Ketosis 1/13	Would your doctor be willing to do the blood test that checks to see if your cholesterol is the big fluffy kind? If you can find out this information it could help make your decision to take meds easier. Only the small particle kind will harm your health.

08-12-2012, 07:13 AM	#4
lterry913 Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,524 Gallery: lterry913 Stats: 5' 11" 238/174/170 WOE: Atkins Start Date: 12/1/2010	I see you increased your fish oil... make sure you follow instructions because too much oil in the stomach could cause nausea also. The advice given above about ldl is also what I have read. Good luck and give lc a few months, sometimes your numbers will actually be worse at first...it's the bodies way of compensating for the changes you have made.

08-12-2012, 08:11 AM	#5
clackley Chatty Cathy Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 13,042 Gallery: clackley Stats: 228.5/168/125 WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009	I couldn't agree with you more Julie. Statins are not the answer for females. Cholesterol is very functional and if the numbers are outside the 'normal' range, it is likely in response to something else. I have read a # of times that if one has thyroid problems, a common symptom is 'abnormal' LDL. O.t. - love your new avi - you look the picture of health!!

08-12-2012, 09:00 AM	#6
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	@picklepete: my LDL-P was tested and is high....but much better than it used to be. My endo says I'm not a 'super absorber' based on my testing. This must be a good thing considering my diet. Also, the genetic testing she did it shows that my body does not activate folate properly so I must take this supplement. I also wonder if this may affect cholesterol...namely LDL. I don't absorb iron or vitamin D well...incidentally, my insulin, although not ideal, has come down from 19 to 14. @clackley: thank you!! I am feeling much better...not great, yet, but definitely on the mend after my thyroid med drama and hospitalization in May.

08-12-2012, 09:04 AM	#7
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	Oh, and incidentally, my HS-Omega-3 Index (ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6) is in the 'optimal' range.

08-12-2012, 01:10 PM	#8
ravenrose . Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: California Posts: 9,080 Gallery: ravenrose Stats: lost 130 lb so far, and miles to go before I sleep WOE: low carb controlled calorie Start Date: June, 2009	did you ever get the vap test?

08-12-2012, 01:44 PM	#9
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	@ravenrose: it loOks like I did not.

08-13-2012, 04:52 AM	#10
shmabby Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA USA Posts: 1,876 Gallery: shmabby	I'm just learning about this now but I've read that some drs consider the NMR lipo to be a much better test than the VAP.

08-20-2012, 10:47 AM	#12
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	I actually emailed with Jimmy Moore from Livin' La Vida Low Carb and he has had success following a very high fat diet (85%), mod protein, low carb. He said that based on his research, the high saturated fat should correct the LDL issue and increase HDL's ...so will lowering carbs. I started yesterday, and the high fat actually made me ill...too much fat...I'm going to have to ease into it, I think. However, I lost 2 lbs overnight which I haven't seen in a while! So who knows!

08-20-2012, 01:38 PM	#17
juliekaboolie Major LCF Poster! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,382 Gallery: juliekaboolie WOE: Whole30 Start Date: 1/7/11	I eat a lot of fresh, organic veggies. I actually believe my cholesterol issues stem from a thyroid issue. I've been hypo for roughly 10 years and currently have low T3 and was just treated by iron IV for anemia. I personally think my numbers reflect those imbalances. I've been eating grain free and sugar free (no artificial sweeteners or processed foods) for a year now. This is why I believe my cholesterol is a symptom of some other underlying cause that is not diet based. I take tons of vitamins recommended by my endo, too. Statins are one of two areas we hotly disagree on and grains are the second. There are no known studies on the effectiveness of statins on women. Not to mention there have been studies that show it hurts the mitochondria of the cells and greatly reduces CoQ10. I have poor side effects from statins, as well.

08-20-2012, 02:44 PM	#18
cobra2411 Senior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Philly Pa Posts: 166 Gallery: cobra2411 Stats: 323/246/223 WOE: 75lbs lost on Atkins now JUDDD Start Date: May 2011	Just trying the obvious... And I agree on statins. Just saying that the 'benefits' are likely more from reduction of inflammation than from lowering of cholesterol. I doubt we'll see a definitive study on that though... There's too much money to be made treating the sick and if the treatment has side effects then that's just more pills to sell...

09-01-2012, 01:38 AM	#20
watcher513 Major LCF Poster! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 2,643 Gallery: watcher513	Although my thyroid function has been pretty good/stabilized for the last year, there were a few times when it was way off, so was my total cholesterol. When my thyroid replacement was optimized (hypo/hashi's), my cholesterol dropped about 30 points. They're very connected. I also have hemolytic anemia and take folic acid for that.