Why did my LDL go up?!

[Flav]

My Blood test done in January of 2011:

Canadian Results
HDL Cholesterol 1.08 MMOL/L
Cholesterol: 3.17
Triglycerides 0.44
LDL Cholesterol: 1.89
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio: 2.94

My Recent blood test from last week (March 2012)

HDL Cholesterol 1.12MMOL/L
Triglycerides: 0.88
LDL Cholesterol: 2.80


My LDL is still within the healthy range, but it went up an entire point and Im trying to figure out why. I havent done anything different except add virgin coconut oil to my diet, and also avocados and butter.

Did these 3 things raise my LDL by a point in just 1.5 years?!
I thought coconut oil was supposed to lower LDL and raise HDL... doesnt seem to have done much for me

[Leo41]

I can only share my experience. Coconut oil raised my LDL significantly within 4 months. That's how often I get a lipid panel because I'm hypothyroid, and my endo checks me every 4 months.

A few years ago, I began using coconut oil as my major fat (for cooking, etc.) right after one of my regular blood tests. Four months later, my LDL (which had been stable for some time) was up 40 points. My endo immediately asked me if I had made any dietary changes, and I remembered the coconut oil. He told me to stop using it. Four months later, my LDL was back down those 40 points.

Everyone may not react the way I did, but it was clear that the coconut oil was the problem for me.

[Flav]

Good to know Im not alone!

Was it virgin coconut oil you were using? Thats what Ive been using!
All my research online indicates that its supposed to be raising HDL and LOWERING LDL. It seems to have done the direct opposite?!

[Leo41]

Yes, I was using Nutiva virgin coconut oil.

I suspect that a lot of the 'hype' about coconut oil is promoted by its vendors. Whenever people here quote its great benefits, I notice that they are often quoting from some site that promotes it rather than a true medical or scientific site.

It's become a fad among the weigh-loss crowd--but apart from raising my LDL, I noticed no other benefits during the 4 months I used it.

[Stevie Renee]

Leo,
just curious, but when you tested your LDL, did it tell you small vs large particle size?

Is is possible your particle size was the fat, fluffy kind?

This conversation has piqued my curiosity

[Leo41]

My LDL was tested a year later with the VAP, and I have 100% the large, fluffy kind--Pattern A. [It was not measured at the time I was using CO.]

However, despite that fact, which people here refer to as 'good,' both my endo and my cardiologist say that the LDL [even Pattern A] should always be within range, and anything that elevates LDL is bad for you.

My HDL is typically 90-110, so I'm not worried about my cholesterol, but any food item that so instantly and dramatically raises my LDL is something I choose to avoid.

[Stevie Renee]

Thanks Leo.
HDL is awesome

What LDL number did the endo and cardio doc say was ideal? I believe Dr W. Davis said 60.

I noticed my LDL was up about 20 points last lipid panel; just the regular test. I had a lot of coconut oil prior.

Will be interesting my next test as I did a VAP and cut out a lot of Coconut oil myself.

[Leo41]

They don't have an 'ideal' LDL number--they just want it within the lab range.

My endo's lab uses a range of 60-100 for LDL, but labs differ in their ranges, so I doubt that there's a universal number.

I understand that for diabetics, they want the LDL even lower, but I'm not sure by how much. I'm not diabetic.

[Stevie Renee]

Thanks Leo. I appreciate you sharing.

[Stevie Renee]

Leo,
I just rcvd my VAP. My LDL dropped 44 points. But my HDL dropped along with it.
Seems like I cannot win for losing!

I didn't give up coconut oil as a whole but cut way back. Maybe there were remnants in my blood even at testing. I wonder how long it takes to get it out of the system.

I also tried something as an experiment. I gave up almost all my supplements of fish oil, vit D and niacin. Well some of the numbers were a smidge out of 'range" so perhaps there is something to the pills. I think I will go back on them for a year and see what next year brings.

I go see my doc in a couple of weeks but she is not VAP savvy. I think she will look at the standard main stream numbers like total cholesterol, Trigs, LDL and HDL. All of them fine. At least I won't have to hear here say "comeback and test in 3 months" like last time. I didn't test however. lol


S

PS: Most important ratio is LDL into HDL...at least I think so. lol - Mine was 2.3 - Anything under 4.4 is ideal. Phew!~

[capricapers]

Have you all watched the video called The Oiling of America? It opened my eyes to the medical field's take on cholesterol and healthy eating.

The Oiling of America - YouTube

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by capricapers

Have you all watched the video called The Oiling of America? It opened my eyes to the medical field's take on cholesterol and healthy eating.

The Oiling of America - YouTube

Good stuff

Dr. Enig is a smart doc. I wish my doctor was like her!

[Leo41]

I found fish oil very helpful and Vit D3 supplementation is essential for me; I don't know why you stopped them.

I've always had a very high HDL, and my doctors all say that's a good genetic inheritance (I guess to counteract the slow metabolism that's also genetic:-)

When I had my VAP test, my endo said that he wasn't surprised that my LDL is 100% Pattern A (the good kind) because in his experience, patients with a high HDL (mine is consistently 90-110) and low trigs (always <60) will have Pattern A LDL.

So without a VAP test, you can see if you fit the pattern.

[Stevie Renee]

I stopped my vits too see my real walking around numbers. My pattern size has been pattern A for years. But I have been low carbing for years.lol

I am glad for your HDL! After I stopped the coconut oil, my HDL and LDL dropped.

Do you have any experience with MCT oil?

I have an appt with a real low carb advocate doc next month. I am excited too see what he says.

Another supplement I took and am now back to is the niacin. I think the combo works. But I wanted to see for myself.

I also had my calcium heart score scan according to Dr W. Davis at Track Your Plaque and happy to have a zero score.

Well wishes!

[capricapers]

"Another supplement I took and am now back to is the niacin."

I just bought some non flush Niacin and reading last night I find that may not be helpful in lowering LDL/Trigs - taking it back to exchange for the regular. What doseage are you starting with if I may ask?

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by capricapers

"Another supplement I took and am now back to is the niacin."

I just bought some non flush Niacin and reading last night I find that may not be helpful in lowering LDL/Trigs - taking it back to exchange for the regular. What doseage are you starting with if I may ask?

From what i have read - and of course there are some who do not agree - non flush is not effective. I also take slow niacin but will eventually go to the regular as it is supposed to better for your liver.

So I started out with 250 per day. A week later up to 500 a day. I was told to get to 1500 a day as I get older ( almost 49).
I read mostly Dr William Davis heartscan blog. I was a paid member for a long time and had some one on one communication with him. This was his recommendation.

Also, he suggested "oil based" vit D and a good dose of fish oil that has a high number of EPA/DHA at the end of the day

PS: I have taken the regular niacin and thought I was going to die of pain .lol - some serious stuff! It takes time to get used to it. Water was suggested with each pill.

[capricapers]

Thanks for that great insight! I've just received my lab results and am SO happy with the lipid portion - 3.5 ratio (I read that was the perfect ratio - is that true? - not lower?) The HDL rose to 61 (from 50) - LDL is at 125 (UP - had been 93) and Triglyceride is 150 (from 225.) Those Tris have been as high as 288 before. The total cholesterol is now 216 (I have a VAP test scheduled) from 188 - but the ratio is better - had been 3.8 before, and that was better than the 4.3 or whatever before. So LC and CO is doing pretty well by me. The only issue now that trouble me is for the FIRST time EVER my glucose is 110 (A1c scheduled) I guess that may be due to age (56) BMI (too high) and inactivity - I'm worked on all three. I just wonder why now and not before in regard to the high glucose reading. Again thank you very much for the good Niacin and Vit D info!!

[Stevie Renee]

Wonderful improvement all around! As far as a perfect ratio, not sure, but a safe ratio for sure!

So lets talk about the glucose. That was in a fasting state?

I know Dr Davis more and more is encouraging people to test their numbers after each meal to see what effects them and to stay under a hundred ( I think, don't quote me.lol)

It may help to get the testers and keep a simple journal of what foods trigger what.

You are on a wonderful path!

PS: I go see a low carb doctor next month. I will post some of his replies to foods. I am curios about dairy - what is the limit for most. And of course, I want to eat more fats without the fear of a doctors ignorance and pushing statins. lol

[capricapers]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

Wonderful improvement all around! As far as a perfect ratio, not sure, but a safe ratio for sure!

So lets talk about the glucose. That was in a fasting state?

I know Dr Davis more and more is encouraging people to test their numbers after each meal to see what effects them and to stay under a hundred ( I think, don't quote me.lol)

It may help to get the testers and keep a simple journal of what foods trigger what.

You are on a wonderful path!

PS: I go see a low carb doctor next month. I will post some of his replies to foods. I am curios about dairy - what is the limit for most. And of course, I want to eat more fats without the fear of a doctors ignorance and pushing statins. lol

"for the FIRST time EVER my glucose is 110 (A1c scheduled) I guess that may be due to age (56) BMI (too high) and inactivity - I'm worked on all three." LOL! I meant to say - working on two of those.

Thanks Stevie for the reply I'd be very curious about what you'll find out at your appt. How did you find a DR. onboard with the LC WOE? Mine mentioned that portion control over LC was the better way to go - but then that must be the ole 'company line' you know? He seemed pleased and sorta surprised at the lipids improvement - as I was actually (had big hope - but ya never know.)

Yes, it was after a 12 hour fast. Prior #s had been 95 in October last year. Soooo needless to say - I'm not happy on that front. My DR. says to get the heart rate up to 140 for 20 minutes a day and that should take care of it. Gonna try that.

[Stevie Renee]

Ugh on the portion control over low carb - low carb (as you know.lol) equates to mostly unprocessed foods, good fats, nuts, berries, animal proteins,limited high fat dairy. Moderation & portion control are usually what docs say with a low fat diet.

I do agree with getting your heart rate up - 3 to 6 days a week is a good place to start. Mini trampoline, walking, biking, lap swimming. And of course throw in some resistant training. Getting a bit of cardio burns the glucose storage


I found the doctor on Jimmy Moore's web site - livin la vida low carb.
Maybe there is one in your part of town. Mine is about an hour a way which is fine by me.

Will revert the nuts and bolts of what he says at my visit. I read a review that he has a lot of low carb posters in his office so i hope he is the real deal.

[Leo41]

Your doctor is actually partially right--portion control AND low carb are important in controlling blood sugar.]

My sister is a Type 2 diabetic, and she discovered this from her regular testing. She can eat very low carb, but if her portions are too large, she will still get a spike in blood sugar. The only way to keep it stable is low carb eating with frequent small meals.

If you are concerned, I'd recommend you check out Dr. Richard Bernstein's website Diabetes Solution (he also has books). He is himself a diabetic, and he provides valuable information on using diet to control blood sugar.

[capricapers]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Your doctor is actually partially right--portion control AND low carb are important in controlling blood sugar.]

My sister is a Type 2 diabetic, and she discovered this from her regular testing. She can eat very low carb, but if her portions are too large, she will still get a spike in blood sugar. The only way to keep it stable is low carb eating with frequent small meals.

If you are concerned, I'd recommend you check out Dr. Richard Bernstein's website Diabetes Solution (he also has books). He is himself a diabetic, and he provides valuable information on using diet to control blood sugar.

Thank you!! I had never heard of Dr. Bernstein - I will research his work. He sounds like he walks the talk. I refuse to have Diabetes!!! It has never been on my horizon - ever, and it feels weird even typing the word! I found this --

264: Dr. Richard Bernstein On The Low-Carb Diabetes Solution | The Livin La Vida Low-Carb Show

[capricapers]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

Ugh on the portion control over low carb - low carb (as you know.lol) equates to mostly unprocessed foods, good fats, nuts, berries, animal proteins,limited high fat dairy. Moderation & portion control are usually what docs say with a low fat diet.

I do agree with getting your heart rate up - 3 to 6 days a week is a good place to start. Mini trampoline, walking, biking, lap swimming. And of course throw in some resistant training. Getting a bit of cardio burns the glucose storage


I found the doctor on Jimmy Moore's web site - livin la vida low carb.
Maybe there is one in your part of town. Mine is about an hour a way which is fine by me.

Will revert the nuts and bolts of what he says at my visit. I read a review that he has a lot of low carb posters in his office so i hope he is the real deal.

"unprocessed foods, good fats, nuts, berries, animal proteins,limited high fat dairy."
Sounds very Primal/Paleo does it not? I've been looking into that as well.

"Jimmy Moore's web site - livin la vida low carb"
Between your recommendations and Leo41's - sounds like I need to spend time on that site. I had already registered last week or so - but had not visited since. Looking very forward to your " nuts and bolts" review!