Anyone's cholesterol go down after starting low carb and eating eggs daily?

[Bring it on]

Just curious,

My doctor doesn't love my cholesterol. Has anyone who is eating eggs daily and lost weight while doing low carb find that their cholesterol has gone down? I know Atkins' book says it will but I would love to hear it first hand.

[Leo41]

I don't know about going down, but I'll share my experience. When I was in my 30s and in graduate school (poor!), I did Atkins and lost about 40 lbs. But since I had no money, eggs (which I love) were the basis of my diet (along with a little tuna). I ate tons of eggs for several months. After I had lost the weight and continued eating a lot of eggs, I had a total physical. I had never had a lipid panel before but I warned my doctor that with the amount of eggs I was eating daily, I expected my cholesterol to be very high.

I don't recall the numbers, but it was quite healthy. My doctor explained at that time that too much cholesterol is rarely from foods but the way the body is functioning--i.e., it produces most of the cholesterol in the blood.

Now that I'm much, much older, I notice that my cholesterol (which is regularly checked by my endocrinologist as part of checking my thyroid) IS affected by what I consume to some extent. I posted a while ago, for example, that coconut oil had driven my LDL up 50 points, and it returned to the lower number when I switched back to olive oil. So I don't want you to think that my own egg experience is dogma--it all depends on the person--and that person's age, etc.

[enelkay]

Within the first six months I was on low-carb my cholesterol went down some -- not terribly dramatically. But my triglyceride count, which many doctors now consider to be more important than cholesterol, went down by almost 300 points. It had been what my doctor called "dangerously high," and went down to "unbelievably low."

I ate lots and lots of eggs during that time. Still do. And always will. In fact, I cluck!

My triglyceride count has stayed low for almost ten years. My HDL cholesterol has gone way up, and my LDL is down almost to normal. I don't think it'll ever get down to what's considered normal today, because everyone on both sides of my family has had extremely high cholesterol.

[Bring it on]

Thanks. I guess my main concern is that my cholesterol is a little high.

The ratios are bad. But my HDL was in the 30s and the ldl was probably 150 or so.

What I am afraid of is eating on Atkins. Eating all of these meets cheeses and Eggs and going to my doctor and having my cholesterol spike 70 points.

I just want to hear first hand that people who switched from a low fat diet to a low carb high fat diet had good luck with their cholesterol.

[Houston Heather]

I dropped mine about 100 points through low carb alone.

It was 240, and actually was tested at 140 a few months into low carb.

I don't take cholesterol meds, either.

[KlingonBabe]

My cholesterol went from about 230 to 170 or so... and when I got that second test, I had been eating bacon and eggs and cream, full-force, for six months straight.

I don't remember the ratios, though. But the doctor was impressed.

[JerseyGyrl]

[COLOR="Purple"]The Dr. wanted to put my DBF on 20 mg a day of Lipitor IMMEDIATELY ( with no discussion of changing his diet etc.) These were his test results:
Total Cholesterol = 275
LDL = 191
HDL = 47
Triglycerides = 184

He began eating Atkins/Protein Power style He eats bread, but..its ezekiel bread and he eats an occasional sweet potato instead of white potatoes. He eats a lot of fish and veggies now. He has lost 35 lbs He also takes supplements such as fish oil & garlic.

These are his cholesterol test results as of Novemeber 2008:
Total Cholesterol = 195
LDL = 123
HDL = 49
Triglycerides = 114

I'd also like to add, his entire family has a history of high cholesterol & they are all on meds (which was also something the Dr. took into consideration regarding wanting to put him on meds)

I'm very proud of him...and...NO Lipitor!!![/COLOR]

[Bring it on]

oh this is all so good to hear. I am paranoid because about thirteen years ago. My cholesterol was about 230. I had it tested about 1 weeks into induction and it was 300 so I stopped low carb. But at the time I was 27 years old and eating only meat, cheese, eggs and I was in induction only one week in.

So I am hoping that this time will be better. I have been faithfully doing low carb for only 6 weeks or so now.

I think atkins says to wait for the blood test for a few months. Doesn't he even say initially your cholesterol can go up briefly?

If my cholesterol goes down on this WOE I will be so thrilled. This is a big leap of faith for me.

[Leo41]

Rich-

I definitely think that spike just one week in was your body's immediate response to the influx of meat, cheese, etc. You're right about Dr. Atkins recommending several months of low carb before having blood tests to check.

Good luck with this!

[TheWildHaggis]

I'm very interested in this question as my spike didn't happen til ten months (August) in. Up to that point, my numbers were great. Then my LDL shot up from 65 to 193 thereby pushing my TC to 220. Alas, only my HDL which stood fast at 62 is keeping my doctor from putting me on zocor yet again.

One other interesting note about this so far, I retested the day following me getting the August results; so 8 days after the first test. My LDL then came in at 4.4 with TC at 5.7 No one has been able to explain that drop when I have no time to react and change my diet to reflect a better score (like I would even know how.)

Alas, one problem about talking this in the forums is that you can get flooded by those that simply don't care about cholesterol, or think it doesn't matter. I respect their position, but they feel the need to 'convert' me.

[Bring it on]

Originally Posted by TheWildHaggis

I'm very interested in this question as my spike didn't happen til ten months (August) in. Up to that point, my numbers were great. Then my LDL shot up from 65 to 193 thereby pushing my TC to 220. Alas, only my HDL which stood fast at 62 is keeping my doctor from putting me on zocor yet again.

One other interesting note about this so far, I retested the day following me getting the August results; so 8 days after the first test. My LDL then came in at 4.4 with TC at 5.7 No one has been able to explain that drop when I have no time to react and change my diet to reflect a better score (like I would even know how.)

Alas, one problem about talking this in the forums is that you can get flooded by those that simply don't care about cholesterol, or think it doesn't matter. I respect their position, but they feel the need to 'convert' me.

The first test could have been flawed.

[ellenwyo]

Umm, here's a monkey wrench thought..

Cholesterol is critical to the well being of your body.. Cholesterol holds your body together. A study in 2003 by Pfreiger revealed that the brain uses cholesterol to build the synaptic connections between its neurons. In fact, the brain has special cells called glial cells which are specifically adapted to make cholesterol for neuronal connections.

Your brain is almost completely made of fat and cholesterol. One of the most horrible side effect of statin drugs is a loss of memory and cognitive function, directly related to the loss of available cholesterol to repair neuronal cell walls and connections.

A book by Henry Lorin suggests pretty convincingly that Alzheimer's may be related to starving the brain cells of the cholesterol molecules needed to repair oxidative damage..

Maybe your doctor, like so many health professionals, doesn't know that there are many, many studies which indicate that the people with what mainstream medicine would call "elevated to high" cholesterol levels live the longest.

The Framingham study, on which the whole "get your cholesterol down" myth is based even reports this outcome:

In 1987, the Framingham researchers published a 30 year follow up report on the “all cause mortality rates” of the Framingham residents. They looked not only at coronary heart disease deaths, but deaths from stroke, cancer and other illnesses.

The researchers reported a surprising outcome. For those participants who were over age 50, lower cholesterol rates were associated with a higher risk of death from CHD and all causes.

In fact, for every 1 mg/dl drop in cholesterol levels, there was a 14% increase in heart related death, and an 11% increase in overall mortality.

In other words, declining levels of cholesterol increased the risk of death from all causes, not just CHD.

For more information on this subject, go to my website and read any of the books about cholesterol on my resources page.. You can find more information about the benefits of cholesterol on this page: Elevated Cholesterol Levels: Cause for Worry?

Don't want to be contrary, just wanted you to know about an alternative you might want to consider..

[TheWildHaggis]

Originally Posted by Ricardolowcarbo

The first test could have been flawed.

I was betting on that because I hadn't read about anyone, anywhere, having a spike this late after starting Atkins. That is why I had the retest.

I should have mentioned my earlier test results. Back in May when everything was still on track, my stats were...

TC 135
Trig 85
HDL 54
LDL 65
Ratio 2.5

Now take your pick of the August tests....

TC 267
Trig 55
HDL 61
LDL 193
Ratio 4.3

or the partial numbers (I forgot to ask about the other numbers) of my retest...

TC 220
LDL 170

Both still suck. And as my doctor pointed out at the time, they were worse than when I first started this WOE. (The odds of both tests being wrong is even more remote as two different labs did the August work, and... I'm not that lucky.)

I was scheduled to have more blood work done this past November, with it being the one year anniversary of my 'enlightenment,' but I managed to convince my doctor into holding off til January as I'm finding the last ten pounds to be a bit harder than I'd like. So back to Induction level carbs and loads of eggs. So far, that's making the scale move the right way, but I don't want to take a chance and have my intake of 1500+mg of dietary cholesterol each day to make my test score worse. (Once again, I know there are a many that don't believe it will, or don't care either way, but I do.) Anyways, in about a week, the mass of eggs will stop and I'll give myself a month before I get the blood work done.

I'll make sure to get copies of the results then and post them here.

[Bring it on]

I am having mine done in a few weeks. So I'll see how it goes. I will post it then.

[Bring it on]

I went to the Lab today for my physical blood test. I have been eating this way for a few months now. I have to set up an appt for a physical now. My doc doesn't give me results until I come in for my physical. So I will let you know how it goes. I have my fingers crossed because I am enjoying this WOE and feeling pretty good overall.

[TheWildHaggis]

I plan to stick it out til early January as I originally planned. But that said, I would really like to know what the eggs have done to me, if anything. This doubt is killing me; I want to know, but don't exactly want to explain it to my doctor if it doesn't mess with his ideas of where it should be.

On the other stuff I'm watching that's tied into this, like my sugars and blood pressure, I could not be happier! I'm going to ask for another oral glucose tolerance test come January and see if I can get that 'impaired glucose tolerance' label removed thereby taking his cholesterol arguments away.

Anyway, I'll be sure to post whatever the numbers are when I get them in this thread.

[living_healthy]

Originally Posted by TheWildHaggis

I was betting on that because I hadn't read about anyone, anywhere, having a spike this late after starting Atkins. That is why I had the retest.

I should have mentioned my earlier test results. Back in May when everything was still on track, my stats were...

TC 135
Trig 85
HDL 54
LDL 65
Ratio 2.5

Now take your pick of the August tests....

TC 267
Trig 55
HDL 61
LDL 193
Ratio 4.3

or the partial numbers (I forgot to ask about the other numbers) of my retest...

TC 220
LDL 170

Both still suck. And as my doctor pointed out at the time, they were worse than when I first started this WOE. (The odds of both tests being wrong is even more remote as two different labs did the August work, and... I'm not that lucky.)

I was scheduled to have more blood work done this past November, with it being the one year anniversary of my 'enlightenment,' but I managed to convince my doctor into holding off til January as I'm finding the last ten pounds to be a bit harder than I'd like. So back to Induction level carbs and loads of eggs. So far, that's making the scale move the right way, but I don't want to take a chance and have my intake of 1500+mg of dietary cholesterol each day to make my test score worse. (Once again, I know there are a many that don't believe it will, or don't care either way, but I do.) Anyways, in about a week, the mass of eggs will stop and I'll give myself a month before I get the blood work done.

I'll make sure to get copies of the results then and post them here.

The only 2 figures that I am ever concerned with are the Triglycerides and the HDL. Triglycerides should be under 150 and HDL above 40. The LDL is irrelevant, but if you're concerned, get the particle size test (VAP testing) and that will show you that your LDL particles are big and fluffy and those do not cause artherosclerosis. TG/HDL above 3.0 increases coronary risk factor. Readings near 1 or less are best. Read more here. "The ratio of triglycerides to HDL was the strongest predictor of a heart attack....Those in his study with the highest TG/HDL ratios had 16X more heart attacks than those with the lowest TG/HDL ratios." TG/HDL over 6 = very bad and TG/HDL under 2 = very good You went from 1.6 to 0.9 I interpret both as good numbers, but you did improve. I eat eggs, red meat, and loads of fat every day. My last test a month ago was TRI: 63, HDL: 73 with TG/HDL = 0.86 I am pleased with my results. I am having the VAP done in January. My suggestion is to stay away from high carbs. The lower the carbs, the better the results.

[TheWildHaggis]

Originally Posted by living_healthy

The only 2 figures that I am ever concerned with are the Triglycerides and the HDL.

Yup, I'm aware that's what most LCer and Taubes think. I'm also aware of what Dr. Atkins has said. I'm not 100% sold on it quite yet, and >my< doctor certainly isn't.

While I would cross over the 49th to get to a clinic that offers particle size testing, my doctor has told me it won't matter to him. To go ahead and do that then, just to know and get the free body cavity search at the border, well, I already know my numbers point towards me having 'a' particles, so I'll pass, for now.

While I have your ear though, I'd like to ask you about your lipid numbers. I know that you only care about TG and HDL, but they must have also told you your LDL number even though it doesn't matter to you. Humour me, was it up, or did it fall like the rest of the numbers?

What I'm trying to figure out is, is it normal to have LDL spike some 8 months into LCing? Dr. Atkins said it was possible near the beginning of LCing, but I don't see anyone here claiming that it ever happened to them and what became of it; was it temporary or an ongoing issue.

At the end of the day, I have a doctor, who I do respect, following guidelines that requires him to put me back on statins. If my LDL was at 65, like it was back in May, I wouldn't have to worry about that. But because my last tests came in between 170 and 190, I do, especially when it can't seem to be explained.

Dr. David once put out numbers of 60-60-60 or better. I have two of those three, and I want know why I can't have the third.

[enelkay]

Originally Posted by TheWildHaggis

Dr. David once put out numbers of 60-60-60 or better. I have two of those three, and I want know why I can't have the third.

In many cases a high LDL level seems to be the result of heredity. I consider that must be what my problem with it is. As long as I stay on low-carb my triglyceride count stays down in the low 40's; my HDL is continually well above 60, and my LDL usually runs way above 120. Although I don't know the breakdown of their HDL vs. LDL, I do know that both of my parents had very high total cholesterol counts.

I was on an extremely low fat diet for almost three years, and at the end of that time my HDL was about 30 points higher than it was when I started. Later, after about a year on low-carb, my HDL was back down as low as it's ever been. As I said, though, it's always high. The same doctor who put me on a low-fat diet also put me on Lipitor, but after four days on it my legs were so painful and weak I couldn't walk half a block without them caving in. Several doctors since then have wanted me to try statins again, but I refuse.

I don't worry about my LDL anyway because about three years ago at age 66 I had an angiogram prior to surgery for an aortic aneurysm (another condition inherited from my father and his family). When the test was over the doctor who performed it came out and told me that he seldom sees blood vessels cleaner than mine, even in young children. There was not a sign of plaque buildup. He asked me what I ate, and I told him that I'd been on a low-carb diet for seven years. He said "Well, whatever it is, keep it up! I'm amazed."

[TheWildHaggis]

Originally Posted by enelkay

In many cases a high LDL level seems to be the result of heredity. I consider that must be what my problem with it is.

I don't think that's the case with me. I spent the first 40 years of my life having numbers that for lack of a better word, were 'normal.'

According to what I've read of Dr. Atkins isn't isn't unexpected, but it happens more in the beginning of this journey when the body, I suppose, it still trying to figure out what to do.

Besides that nugget of info, the only other quality post I've come across the net is what Dr. Davis has said recently trying to loosely define how small and large sub-particles of LDL react to certain foods (carbs to small, sat fats to large.) But this is his opinion, which I respect and would love to accept as unimpeachable, but my BS detector won't let me. Besides, this still doesn't explain why the rise happened so late after increasing my intake of sat fats.

My own half-baked theories on this stuff is that while my diet was pretty constant during this period(<20g carbs), my weight wasn't. Perhaps as my body was cleaning itself out, it 'stored' the LDL in the blood stream on the way to getting broken down. I believe my LDL level was fluid as the retest I had a week later, had a more than expected drop (TC went from 267 to 220 and the LDL went from 193 to 170,) that errors couldn't explain. So maybe, just maybe, with my weight now stabilizing (I'm close to my goal), I assume there is less LDL to process and will drop. If not, maybe I'm just resign to the fact that I'm doomed and choke down a slab of bacon.

Now, 7 years, that's truly amazing! I just past my first year marker of successful LCing, but I don't plan to pop the egg cream cork until 5 years have past and I'm still entrenched into the LC lifestyle. With relapse rates being so high, I think in my case, it's prudent to be humble.

[Bring it on]

Ok, here is my experiment.

1 year ago

this is all I know for numbers.

December 2007
Total 214
hdl 37 ratio 5.8

December 2008 after six weeks of Atkins
Total 237
Ldl 172
Hdl 48 ratio 4.9

I have started to exercise a bit. nothing major. What do these numbers say to you?

[luckiangel]

your numbers tell me that your LDL has come down since your HDL has come up which is good..the higher that number the better. Your LDL is still high as is your total but that should start coming down as well....if i knew your trig level it would be a little easier to say but looks like it is starting to make a difference. Keep at it!!!

[Bring it on]

My trig was 85 this time. I know that I am progressing. My trig last time I think was a little over 100. The only concern that I have is that my ldl went from 150 to 170 but my ratio has improved. I have added 1000mg of fish oil with omega 3sfor the last 3 months. Does anyone think that is a detriment? I have read that fish oils can raise your LDL.

[SuSUN]

Rich,

Your ratio has come down to 4.9, less than 5.2 is Excellent!

It takes a while on this WOE to get the full benefits with the lipid panel.

Dr A says that Exercise is the other side of the coin and It is NON-negotiable!
So together you should have it all under control soon.

KUTGW

Susan

[luckiangel]

i think you are doing really well! i have found that cinnamon helps as well. but you are doing great!!!!

[TheWildHaggis]

<sigh>...as promised.

I got my lab result back today. In part, it said...

Cholesterol Fasting.....6.9.....266.823
Triglycerides...........0.48.....42.528
HDL.....................2.3......88.941
LDL.....................4.4.....170.148
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio...3.0

I want to reach 60-60-60, and I've bettered two of them, but the LDL is causing me fits. Dr. Atkins must have run into this in his practice, yet I can't find anything about it in his books that I have access to. (Short term bumps are covered, but this is happening to me a year after I started, not just after Induction.)

Alas, of the people I've contact regarding this problem, they pretty much fall in two basic camps. Either they don't care what their numbers are, or they never had this problem. My doctor, on the other hand, only looked at the LDL number and knew exactly what to do; so now I'm back on 10mg of Zocor.

And before anyone mentions it, changing doctor or simply not taking the meds isn't a option for me.

[un4givun2]

11 years ago I was on cholesterol medication. My total cholesterol had consistantly over 300 with meds, exercise, and a vegitarian diet. I ate no meat or sweets. I even had a very large garden that required at least an hour a day to tend it was so big. The majority of my meals came fresh from the garden. At this point I was 235 lbs, 30 years of age, 5'11 and I had high blood pressure and cholesteral. My doctor tells me I need to make life style changes. I told my doctor my lifestyle consisted of no drinking or smoking and that I excercised intensly at least 30 minutes a day and that I ate only foods I grew myself in my own garden. He asked me how long I had been doing this and I told him 3 years (the same amount of time he had been my doctor). He scarfed at me and called me a liar. I jumped off his table and told him to go to hell!

I fired him and went to a controversal doctor that had done research for the Protein Power diet. From there the rest is history. I've never eaten fruit again and I only eat 5 servings of green vegies a week. 4 weeks after seeing the new doctor my cholesterol was below 140 and that's the highest it's been in 11 years. I've been as low as 115. I've been off all meds for 11 years as well. I lost 80 lbs in 8 months.

I am Low Carb for life!

[maizenbluebabe]

Originally Posted by un4givun2

11 years ago I was on cholesterol medication. My total cholesterol had consistantly over 300 with meds, exercise, and a vegitarian diet. I ate no meat or sweets. I even had a very large garden that required at least an hour a day to tend it was so big. The majority of my meals came fresh from the garden. At this point I was 235 lbs, 30 years of age, 5'11 and I had high blood pressure and cholesteral. My doctor tells me I need to make life style changes. I told my doctor my lifestyle consisted of no drinking or smoking and that I excercised intensly at least 30 minutes a day and that I ate only foods I grew myself in my own garden. He asked me how long I had been doing this and I told him 3 years (the same amount of time he had been my doctor). He scarfed at me and called me a liar. I jumped off his table and told him to go to hell!

I fired him and went to a controversal doctor that had done research for the Protein Power diet. From there the rest is history. I've never eaten fruit again and I only eat 5 servings of green vegies a week. 4 weeks after seeing the new doctor my cholesterol was below 140 and that's the highest it's been in 11 years. I've been as low as 115. I've been off all meds for 11 years as well. I lost 80 lbs in 8 months.

I am Low Carb for life!

this is just about the best proof anyone could offer that sometimes the meds and "healthy diets" the medical establishment want us on are just plain wrong...and often stupid

As for getting rid of that doc who called you a liar--you wisely dumped a very dangerous man with a totally negative and disrespectful attitude toward you and found someone else who was willing to treat you like you were not a moron. I applaud you for knowing instantly that the trouble was, not with yourself, but with your idiot, closed-minded doctor!

Has anyone else ever noticed that if you are overweight, some doctors have a tendency to treat you like you are retarded? I havent--I've been very fortunate in my PCP--but a number of my overweight friends have.

IN answer to the OP--my total cholesterol (after years of LC eating most of the time) is like 229 still, but my other results are excellent, especially my LDl/HDL ratio and triglycerides (which are way below 100)

[dasiey]

well my doc. just says protein, low fat and exercise. My cholesterol is high.. Not sure on what to do.

[un4givun2]

Maizenbluebabe,
I've researched this extensively and I've learned one thing for sure: You’re NOT what you eat!
The highest my cholesterol ever was (384) I ate 100% veggies (mostly organic) and I exercised every day with at least 30 minutes of intense cardio and another 30 minutes of strength training. That was 12 years ago. Now my cholesterol stays under 160 and I rarely exercise. Everything I eat is high in fat and cholesterol. My doctor's best advice that I found really works is "if it says low fat don't eat it" and eat your last meal 4 hours or more before going to bed. He also said get 8 hours of sleep at all cost even if it requires meds.