Help on Cholesterol

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by Domino

I got my numbers back from the doctor today. They want me to go on a statin, of course...but I told the doctor I didn't wanna. Anyway, Help me interpret this and figure out what I *really* should do!!

Current numbers:

Total chol: 259
Trig: 80
HDL: 41
VLDL: 16
LDL: 202

Pre-LC numbers:

Total: 226
Trig: 156
HDL: 34
VLDL: 31
LDL: 160

OK, so if I understand correctly, although my numbers are in fact higher overall, it isn't as dire as my doctor is making it out to be? So, now what? Right now, my only supplementation is a multi-vitamin, alpha lipoid acid/acetyl l-carnitine and chromium. None of that does anything for cholesterol, so, what can I add that will help? I've heard of niacin helping LDL, is that right? I'm planning on adding a fish oil or some kind of omega 3 supplement.

Hey D,
how long have you been low carbing? Sometimes, if you just started under 6 to 9 months, your numbers could be a bit wacky. Especially if you lost a lot of weight.

Also, the regular old lipid test in the mainstream society just does not tell your entire story. A VAP or MR test gets to the nitty gritty, especially of the LDL particle size due to low carb high fat.

I know I sound like a broker record, but heartscanblog - go take a peak. Search under niacin and fish oil. Heck, look at all if his blog. It is super informative. Talks about statins, wheat, LDL, etc.

I do not know much about your current supplements but yes, niacin & fish oil & Vit D (gel based only, not tablet) is a good place to start adding.

Dr Davis claims non flush niacin is ineffective. Some people do baby steps with regular niacin (super flush. Yucko.) Others use Slow-Rush niacin. Many take the niacin at night - many swear a big glass of water helps chill out the rush.

You can start of perhaps with 250 mg of slow rush for a couple of weeks, then up it to 500 and the goal perhaps is 1500. I know that sounds like a lot. This is just what I read. Then after 3 months, take a 2 week niacin vacation & start again. Dr D patients have shown great strives with niacin & fish oil.

As far as fish oil goes, Dr D says to look at the labels. If the bottle does not specifically spell out how much EPA/DHA you are consuming, don't buy it. He liked Sam's & Costco as an economic choice. its been awhile since I have been on his site.But at the end of the day, the EPA/DHA should be a high amount, if memory serves, 1800 total? So that may equate to a few fish oil caps. He also has a blog about being patient with fish oil.


A goal to consider is 60-60-60-60 (TRIGS, HDL, LDL & Vit D)

You may want to read his blog also about how to increase your HDL.

So lets look at your numbers as ratios:

Your trigs by the way look pretty darn good!

The bump in your total is most likely due to the particle size of your LDL went fluffy(good) but unless you have the VAP test, your doc will error on the side of sand like particles of LDL (bad). My current doc cannot read a VAP, I had to go search out one who did.

Trigs divided into HDL: 1.95
Ideal is 2 or below

Total cholesterol divided into HDL:
6.31 (ideal is 4.4 for women, 5 for men)
~~Best way to fix this is lower trigs & raise HDL. Read, read, read.

LDL to HDL :4.92
~~This is to be considered the marker to carotid plaque. Ideal levels are4:4 (4.4 to 7 is average risk for developing heart disease.


So in a nut shell, yes you have some work to do. The goods news? It is doable! Are statins for you? Do your homework, read, read, read. Only you can decide if the pros/cons of an added drug are needed. Ask yourself what changes you are willing to do, live with, etc, ect...sleep on it


If it were me, I would ensure I changed my supplements, got some type of sweat going daily, watch the diet, add some good healthy fats & retest with a VAP test.

Hope that helps a wee bit....I think I got the math right! lol

[bent_not_broken]

I have been lc woe for 2 years, I have not lost more than 10 lbs in total, I had fatty liver, sleep apnea, and a nodule on my thyroid, and slight hypo.

My AST and ALT went from 60 to 16 which is good
My A1C from 6.7 to 5.4 - good

I started using a cpap for the sleep and taking lavoxcile (sp?) for my thyroid 88

I was getting frustrated with not losing weight so I wasn't really doing "induction" woe, I was not eating more than 30 carbs a day but I wasn't really adding fat, and I starting eating a low carb bread from trader joes, and I would cheat on occasion.

I saw my gastro who wanted me to started a cholestrol med due to mine being 210 for a long period of time and my trig had been 242
so I went back to 20 carbs or less a day and even lowered my calories, and stopped the cheating and low carb bread for a little over a month now.

Redid blood work

A1C 5:4
TSH 0.83 range 0.60- 3.30
T4 Free 1.47 range 0.71-1.40

trig - 335 range 1-149
NON HDL CHOL CAL 204 optimal 130-159
LDL 137
HDL 50
Cholesterol total 254

She wants me to come back in 3 months after I have been back doing LC for that long

This is what I eat

Breakfast
3 eggs cooked in butter
2 pieces of bacon

Lunch
RR with either tuna or turkey burger w/cheese, mayo

snack - sometimes
1 piece of coconut oil candy
1 oz pecans fried in butter

Dinner
1 small skinless chicken breast baked
so mediterrean epplant in olive oil
salad with just cucumbers and grated cheese with kens ranch dressing

64 oz of water a day

What am doing wrong or I am I just not giving it enough time for my numbers to come down?????
As far as weight loss - i give up on that...its just not meant to be for me I guess

[Domino]

Been low carb since Feb of last year, so 10 months. My numbers are better than they were, so I'm not doing meds. I've started fish oil and I'm considering niacin. I don't know about that yet. I have to recheck in a few months, I'll get a VAP test then.

[Leo41]

Lauri-
Doesn't you doctor check your T3? That's the thyroid hormone that controls weight, and if it's low, you can't lose.

Most doctors learned in medical school that T4 converts in the body to T3, so they only check to see that your T3 is adequate. However, once you're hypothyroid, some of us run into conversion problems and need to take T3.

I was taking only T4 for over 5 years, and did just great--until I began experiencing T3 problems. The T3 is what actually affects us most and controls how we feel. Now I take T3 and T4.

If I were you, I'd get my T3 checked. If it's not at least half of the lab range or higher, that could be the cause of your difficulty losing weight.

[bent_not_broken]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Lauri-
Doesn't you doctor check your T3? That's the thyroid hormone that controls weight, and if it's low, you can't lose.

Most doctors learned in medical school that T4 converts in the body to T3, so they only check to see that your T3 is adequate. However, once you're hypothyroid, some of us run into conversion problems and need to take T3.

I was taking only T4 for over 5 years, and did just great--until I began experiencing T3 problems. The T3 is what actually affects us most and controls how we feel. Now I take T3 and T4.

If I were you, I'd get my T3 checked. If it's not at least half of the lab range or higher, that could be the cause of your difficulty losing weight.

those test results were just from my pcp, my endo keeps up with all the thyroid testing, my T3 was 3.3 I have actually given up losing weight since it just doesn't happen for me I am concerned now about my cholesterol. Now I am wondering if since I can't lose weight does this woe of eating just not work for some....with weight and cholesterol. I am going to repost my stuff in a new thread though cuz i really really need help

[marylouise]

Originally Posted by sugarless4life

Use FLUSH FREE Niacin to lower your LDL and raise your HDL. I've been taking it for over a year and it lowered my LDL from 177 to 119. I started with 1 500 mg a day, then upped it to 2 a day (with breakfast). No side effects whatsoever. Just be sure it says FLUSH FREE on the label. I get mine at Walmart for about $4. Also add some odorless garlic (I take 1200 mg a day) and fish oil (I take 2 a day). That should do it!

Great numbers though!! Congrats!

Betty

Okdokie you and svenskamae sold me!
Going to Walmart in the morning!!!

[capricapers]

I thought flush free niacin does not help lower cholesterol.

No Flush Niacin - What You Need To Know About No Flush Niacin

[marylouise]

Originally Posted by capricapers

I thought flush free niacin does not help lower cholesterol.

No Flush Niacin - What You Need To Know About No Flush Niacin

Flush-free or no-flush niacin is a form of nicotinic acid also known as inositol hexaniacinate. Flush-free niacin gets its name from its ability to alleviate side effects like flushing that are seen with other forms of niacin. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a lot known about flush-free niacin, and researchers are finding that its active form may not even enter the blood. Therefore, it is unlikely that flush-free niacin lowers cholesterol.

YOU are right!!! Thank you!

[capricapers]

You're welcomed! I had purchased two bottles and took it back to The Vitamin Shoppe after reading that it did not help. Happily my latest tests are good thanks to LC WOE (can certainly get better too) but I'm happier with the lipid portion at least.

Maybe have a convo with a Pharmacist at a drugstore - they are chock full of good info.

Also, do study up on the Niacin. Taking it right at bedtime some say - expect that hot body flush and all of that. Some say start with a low dose - just enough to get that flush for the effect you seek with helping with cholesterol. Then over time increase the strength of niacin. Too much too soon is not good at all.

http://cholesterol.emedtv.com/niacin/niacin-dosage.html

[marylouise]

good advice....thank you....I wondered about slowly introducing it to the body to lessen the hot flashes......

[capricapers]

"good advice....thank you....I wondered about slowly introducing it to the body to lessen the hot flashes......"

YW~

[Domino]

I'm back with new numbers and a VAP test.

Here they are:

Total cholesterol: 251
LDL 186
HDL 46
VLDL 19
Triglycerides: 85

The VAP indicates Type A pattern, large fluffy LDL.

They pressed me to take statins AGAIN. I told them NO, and that was before the VAP came back. Now it's HELL NO! So help me, I may drop dead of a heart attack in 20 years and then I guess we'll know if I was stupid...but I'm taking my chances without that poison, thanks.

I *did* start taking a conservative dose of slo-niacin to help shift the ratios. Over all though, I'm totally not worried.

[marylouise]

Domino which numbers are your VAP#?

Total 342
HDL 57
LDL 253
TRIG 161

I have tried to find plain Niacin....No luck, yet. All of it is no flush kind.....
I added Fiber too.....
My A1c was 6.4, very close to being over on that one....


Your numbers are great! Congrads!
CHOL/HDLC RATIO 6.0

[marylouise]

I just looked up all the info I could find about blood lipids and I still am confused.........

[marylouise]

Originally Posted by LoveMontana

Latest Lipid panel report

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those of you who know me, know I don't believe for one minute that high cholesterol causes heart problems because half of the people who have heart attacks have low or "normal" cholesterol.

It's the inflammatory process that cause the problems. ( double up on that folic acid people)

BUT most of the doctors out there still buy into it, not all, but most because the big pharmaceutical companies continue to spread their poisonous propaganda and flawed study information. IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY GANG. THEY WANT ALL OF US ON MEDS.

My cardiologist doesn't believe it , but we ordered the useless lipid panel just to see what this Atkins diet did for them.

So anyway,
My results after 8 years on Atkins

HDL 140

triglycerides 54

LDL 133

Before I started this plan, my HDL was a low 32, my triglycerides 400 + and my LDL was 215.

I am reading this thread from the first post. I liked this post A LOT! Impressed with numbers and 8 years!


QUOTE from OP.....It's the inflammatory process that cause the problems.


I too believe this is so true! I am putting the flame out with Bragg, with the mother vinegar!
Folic acid....okdokie....getting it!!!!

I also think we all need to remember we are our parents. My mama had same issues as I am having now!

[Domino]

Originally Posted by marylouise

Domino which numbers are your VAP#?

Total 342
HDL 57
LDL 253
TRIG 161

I have tried to find plain Niacin....No luck, yet. All of it is no flush kind.....
I added Fiber too.....
My A1c was 6.4, very close to being over on that one....


Your numbers are great! Congrads!
CHOL/HDLC RATIO 6.0

All the VAP really does is tell you whether you have type A or type B LDL. There are numbers, but I didn't list them all here...there's not really any need. If those numbers are all you have, then you didn't have a VAP test. You have to very firmly and specifically request one, or they just give you those standard numbers.

[capricapers]

Best two hours you'll ever spend - can't say enough good about this lesson. Why do we have heart disease?

The Oiling of America - YouTube

[marylouise]

OH my gosh! T.H.A.N.K. Y.O.U.!!

[marylouise]

Originally Posted by Domino

All the VAP really does is tell you whether you have type A or type B LDL. There are numbers, but I didn't list them all here...there's not really any need. If those numbers are all you have, then you didn't have a VAP test. You have to very firmly and specifically request one, or they just give you those standard numbers.

Oh okay. I am going to call and find out how much the test cost. I have to go to the heath dept. No insurance. Maybe my Congressman of Arkansas will change that for me.

I have a couple of serious health issues......

Thank You

[marylouise]

I found Niacin. 250mg. Third day taking them. No flushing at all. Maybe my body likes them? I am also drinking Bragg Vinegar with the mother in it, 3 times a day with a glass of water.

[capricapers]

Originally Posted by marylouise

I found Niacin. 250mg. Third day taking them. No flushing at all. Maybe my body likes them? I am also drinking Bragg Vinegar with the mother in it, 3 times a day with a glass of water.

I read that the slight flush is a sign that you have reached the level that works for you. Maybe take more then?

"I have found that the best way for me to accurately control the flushing sensation is to start with very small amounts of niacin and gradually increase until the first flush is noticed. One method is to start with a mere 25 milligrams (25 mg) three times a day, say with each meal. The next day, try 50 mg at breakfast, 25 mg at lunch and 25 mg at supper. The following day, one might try 50 mg at breakfast, 50 mg at lunch, and 25 mg at supper. And, the next day, 50 mg at each of the three meals. The next day, 75 mg, 50 mg and 50 mg. Then, 75. 75 and 50, and so on. In this way you have increased at the easy rate of only 25 mg per day. One would continue to increase the dosage by 25 mg per day until the flush occurs"


DoctorYourself.com - Niacin Saturation

[marylouise]

oHHHHHHHHH

Oh me. Thats not good news :-(

I'm going to read that....

I want to know what the niacin does to lower cholesterol.
I think no one really knows what levels the body truly needs. I remember the argument over it. I remember the surgeon general on t.v.
And I know without it we will die. Our brains first.

So by increasing it till the flush everyone will need different dosages. hummmmm

Thank you capricapers (((((HUGS)))))

[capricapers]

You may have heard of Red Rice Yeast for high cholesterol (it has some of the same issues as statins from what I've read though.) Do some reading on that. My Dr. suggested it a couple of years back. I did not use that and a year later I tried a statin - ugh - made me feel so achy and just OLD. It did not really help the tris anyway. The LC WOE made all the difference for me - so I stopped the statin. LDL is a bit higher than I'd like - but my VAP shows me they are large fluffy type A. Tris are 150 - I'd like lower - but I can live with that - no pun intended.

Red Rice Yeast Instead of Statins?- Dr. Weil

[marylouise]

My blood lipids have improved so much it just can NOT be the WOE of eat! IT JUST CANT BE!!


One of my sons is helping me research this issue. My mama lost her teeth when she was 32 years old. I know why now!

I have the same problem she did. My sister, Nathleen had the same test done last week and she has no blockage. Well I lost my teeth also. Soooo it is in blood lines. I believe this to be very true. The governor's office called me a couple hours ago and said" they are sorry no state or federal help for me". I said whatever!



MY wonderful son sent this to me!

Resolved Question
Show me another »
Will apple cider vinegar dissolve plaque in blood vessels?
This would be similar to chelation therapy. If the vinegar will dissolve the plaque how long would it take?

7 months ago



Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
A study conducted in Israel concluded that 1.7 fl.oz pommegranate juice daily will not only prevent plaque build up it will also dissolve existing plaque in arteries. The study also concluded that you will have to drink it for the rest of your life in order to prevent new plaque to form. Another study in Thailand concluded that pommegranate juice also reduces the amount of plaque that forms on the teeth, and I can tell you already that that is true because my dentist noticed that I had much less plaque on my teeth than in previous uears(I just had a cleaning 3 weeks ago). Since I didn't start the pommegranate regimen until May of this year did I figure that keeping it up might lead to even less or no plaque in the future. I rinse my mouth with it before I swallow it. One point 7 fl.oz equals about 3 1/2 tablespoons, so it is not a lot of juice. Just make sure you take a 100% juice with no sugar added. I also take apple cider vinegar but am not sure if that really works because the regular apple cider vinegar you buy at the store is the pits. Try organic apple cider vinegar.
Finally, do not expect things to work over night. Plaque build up takes time and to get rid of it takes time. I was diagnosed with having plaque in the heart's arteries and I do have a doctor's appointment Monday to see if things got better. I do believe that it did get better because I have no heart problems at all......

7 months ago


This is coped and pasted from Yahoo..............

capricapers have you read about this?

My head is spinning with info overload. NOT having a doctor I can trust sure doesn't help either.

[capricapers]

This link is some solid advise. It gives lists of good food and vitamins to beat the plaque.

How to Get Rid of Plaque Blockages Without Surgery or Medication - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Here's a short article on the great things pomegranate juice does against plaque. Your son found a good thing with that research. There are other articles out there too...

Pomegranate Juice Health Benefits | Chelation Story

I have Bragg's ACV and we all know the good that it does (may consider using straws as that acid is hard on teeth.)

I just read that long term use of ACV may present challenges for people who have issues with bone thinning. Something all women need to pay attention to.

I'm glad you will be sitting down with a Dr. soon. Tell him/her all that you take as far as supplements and what you eat and what your concerns are. Plaque is a common problem and I'm sure they will give you a plan, (if needed) but sounds like you may not have an issue after all.

Good lesson for all of us. Antioxidants, stop transfats and hydrogenated oils. 20 - 30 minutes of exercise a day and stay hydrated.

I think slow is best, you don't want a bit of plaque breaking off and floating around causing problems. Not that it will - just slower is better I think. You may be your Mother's daughter in many ways - but I'll bet she did not have access to the more modern and heathy ways of eating and such that have surfaced in the past few years. That may make all the difference in the world.

[marylouise]

Thank you is weak words to express how very thankful I am for you posting that you tube. I just yesterday was able to watch it all the way through. Eye opener indeed for me!

She was asked how long it takes to rid the body of transfat and I was a little taken back that she answered the Q. She said about 3 years. So what she said and what you said about taking it slow makes perfect sense to me!

I have been using Bragg ACV for a while now. Same son told me about it about 2 years ago. He has 2 grown sons and a almost 8 yr. old daughter and a almost 4 yr. old son. He has always been very conscious of his kids and his WOE.

The Bragg ACV causes me no issues with my teeth. Lost them many many years ago. I wish I had made the connection with plaque in the body as a whole, long before now.

On my way to check out your links. Thank you capricapers ((((hugs))))

[capricapers]

That 'Oiling of America' video should be a required viewing for anyone wanting to keep or recover good health. I watched it twice - I enjoyed it so much. I learned SO MUCH from it too!!

I'm sure with your dedication to keeping good health, you will be seeing that 100th birthday in some 40 years or so!

Take good care!!

[marylouise]

L-arginine~~ I started taking this about a year ago :-) 500mg.
I watched a show Dr. Oz aired long time back and I knew I needed that!

Niacin in form of inositol hexaniacinate~~I have tried reading the label on the one I have. Even tried with b-focals :-(..It is from Kmart. Vitasmart brand. I don't see anywhere that it says the form it is from.

vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Folic acid
Omega-3 supplement high in essential fatty acids EPA and DHA
Coenzyme Q10 (co-Q10)
Vitamin E with mixed tocopherols

I take:
B-12~2,000mcg.
L-Arginine~500mg.
D-3~1000 IU.
Hawthorn Berries~565mg.
MegaRed~300mg.

I was taking Q10..need to get some more.
I will get the others above as soon as I can. The Omega-3 we get from CO, isn't that right?
Vitamin E with mixed tocopherols is new to me. Not vit.E but the other words. What it is mixed with. Never heard of that....

[marylouise]

Originally Posted by capricapers

That 'Oiling of America' video should be a required viewing for anyone wanting to keep or recover good health. I watched it twice - I enjoyed it so much. I learned SO MUCH from it too!!

I'm sure with your dedication to keeping good health, you will be seeing that 100th birthday in some 40 years or so!

Take good care!!

YES I agree it needs to be required reading!!!
I do need to watch it again because I was interrupted many times yesterday! I took as many notes as I could. Have you tried to find the transcript? I think I am gona check to see if I can find it....My connect to cyber world is slow at times.......

100 B-Day sounds GREAT to me
My son is aiming for his 130 B-Day. He is 38.....

[capricapers]

Nice line up of supplements - I'm no expert though. I just started with the CoQ10 myself and have a long list of other ones coming in. The thing that jumped out at me was the question re omega 3. That is best from a fish source I thought. Or chia seeds. I do both a day. I do CO too (Nutiva) but that is not for Omega 3.

Coconut Oil And Omega-3 | LIVESTRONG.COM

I see Mega Red there - but it looks low to me. You need at least 1000 mg a day - that will go a LONG way to getting LDL down! Eat more wild caught salmon etc. or bump up your caps of Mega Red or get another kind would be my recommendation.

Omega-3 Dose

There is new talk out now about supplementing with vitamin D and calcium... NOW it is said that it is not a good idea - can't win for losing it seems! Make sure to talk to yur Dr. about that one too. You'll need to write out a list of topics. Then please let me know what they said. I'll compare that with the info from mine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1593598.html